Police Question

[Norman 0]

Rumour has it Thailand has some corruption. I recently had my rented motorbike stolen and the owner wants full replacement (40k). First of all, I don't have 40k available. Secondly, the rental is not due until June 3rd but he rings me every day and I've taken to avoiding his calls at this point. I'm scared of Thai style justice and I'll get a beating if I don't come up with the cash soon. The owner knows where I live but doesn't have my passport or a copy. He has filed a police report (I have a copy) so I know (?) it's not just a case of him stealing the bike and waiting until I go home to re-rent it.

 

I've gone to the tourist police as I feel scared and they really weren't helpful nor English speaking. I'm an expat with limited knowledge.

 

I know the simple solution is to pay the bill pronto but your advice would be soothing nonetheless. Thanks.

[lemons 0]

Get yourself an appointment with a good local lawyer. A examination of the rental contract should indicate where the liability falls in a case of theft.

 

If you as the hiree are obliged to replace the bike, then undoubtedly, that's what'll happen.

 

If the hirer has insurance to cover the loss, (TiT???), then I cant see how he can persue you as well.

 

Good luck with it mate.

[Norman 0]

Get yourself an appointment with a good local lawyer. A examination of the rental contract should indicate where the liability falls in a case of theft.

 

If you as the hiree are obliged to replace the bike, then undoubtedly, that's what'll happen.

 

If the hirer has insurance to cover the loss, (TiT???), then I cant see how he can persue you as well.

 

Good luck with it mate.

Thank you Lemons. I saw my lawyer in bkk and he only confirmed what I think is already known: I will have to pay for the bike but not to be a fool and pay 40k.

 

I offered him 20k on the day of the theft and he balked. I've paid the rent until June 3, so he shouldn't be calling me pestering me anyway as he's not losing anything until then. He won't provide me with the green book all owners receive. I want to know the age of the bike so I can estimate its value. I've heard each year the bike ages, I should remove 10k or so.

 

I'm terrified you'll read about me on the news as the next farang beaten to a pulp or given assisted suicide. Thanks.

[torrenova 644]

I reckon he'll have to prove the bike was his, thus he'll need paperwork. I guess that if he hasn't got your details (passport etc.), you've rented cheaply from someone who knows where you live, like your landlord etc.

 

Do you know which bike it was ?

Year ?

Km on clock ?

How much rental did you pay ?

Who did you rent from ?

Why offer Bt20k straight away ?

Was it insured ?

Was it locked ?

How long had you rented it for ?

Any photos ?

 

Can you be sure that the guy who rented you the bike hasn't knicked it ?

[Norman 0]

I reckon he'll have to prove the bike was his, thus he'll need paperwork. I guess that if he hasn't got your details (passport etc.), you've rented cheaply from someone who knows where you live, like your landlord etc.

 

Do you know which bike it was ?

Year ?

Km on clock ?

How much rental did you pay ?

Who did you rent from ?

Why offer Bt20k straight away ?

Was it insured ?

Was it locked ?

How long had you rented it for ?

Any photos ?

 

Can you be sure that the guy who rented you the bike hasn't knicked it ?

To answer your questions.

It was a Mio. 15k on the clock. I know the plate # and serial # from our contract.

I pay 3k/month. I offered 20k to see his reaction on the advice of my lawyer. If he said yes I could do it today. He did not offer me insurance. Says it's not possible on rentals. The steering was locked and there was a thick chain around the back tire.

 

My lawyer has said that if he were to sue me (western style), it's a civil matter which could take 2 years. The Thai lawyer went on to say he would likely NOT beat my ass as all fingers would point to him if it were to happen. The publicity alone wouldn't be desireable for him as he's quite established.

 

My lawyer's thinking is that he didn't nick it himself or he wouldn't have made a police report and possibly get caught down the road.

 

Maybe I'm just getting panicky but I only have 20k to offer him. He didn't like that offer.

 

I'm just getting convinced you will read about me all beaten and bloody in a few weeks......

[torrenova 644]

I know a bar that rents out mopeds which went down the all in insurance route pricing but had to stop after a short while as there was a problem getting the money from the insurance company and customer who had had their bike stolen were, quite rightly, not happy.

 

A possible reason for this was the fact that if some Thais realised all was insured, they would make off with the bike, thinking that no-one would suffer.

 

Unfortunately, I think your case, sadly I'm afraid, highlights one of the risks of renting a motorbike in LOS.

 

As to a solution, I think mediation is going to be the way forward. You have roughly 2 weeks to find the bike, or could presumably pay another 3k for another month's hire, giving you 6 weeks or so. I know that may seem like a waste of money but maybe a reward for repatriation (talk to the police) could bring the bike back.

 

As an argument with the owner, I would state how much you have paid him already (good if you have hired it for a number of months already) and find out the 2nd hand costs of buying the same bike. Also, if you are short of cash now, you will presumably have some income coming in the next month or so ? Maybe he will wait (he has little choice really). If you suspect a problem coming and he knows where you live, consider moving if you can.

[mbiggs 1]

It sounds as though something is not quite right to me. I would not put it past the owner knowing someone to steal the bike for him, let him do the police report. Get the money from the person who hired. After they have gone, the bike turns up again.

[Owen` 2]

My 2 cents worth . . . if all you can raise to save your life on a moment's notice is 20K baht, there is something wrong with how you are living. If you're an expat on long term visa (over 50) don't you have to have a lot more than this in the bank? If you're making visa runs, make another one and don't come back.

 

Don't know any of your specifics, but just in general I think you belong in your home country working and building a life that doesn't end to violence if you're $500 US short at any time.

[hillbilly 81]

welcome to thailand where nothing is simple, insurance dont think some thais have heard of it. dont hire bikes as its not worth the hassle when things go wrong, if your living there and cant afford 40000bhat its time you went home. hope you get things sorted

[Norman 0]

I've talked it to death (pardon the pun) with my Thai lawyer who himself knows street thugs for when the street info. is required. He assures me it's more common for people to get beaten in muggings, being drunk and rowdy, or girl revenge if someone mistreats or doesn't pay them.

 

The shop owner does NOT want bad publicity since he's worked so hard to buy a fleet of bikes and open a business (likely on borrowed cash). Since I've already spoken with the Tourist Police and there is a police report with both our names in it, if I suddenly wound up in the emergency room, it would likely fall back on him. Maybe not directly, but it wouldn't be good for him.

 

Thanks for all the replies and I'll continue watching this space for other perspectives.

 

It comes down to me fleeing the city, moving residences, or paying up.

[short 215]

I see bikes sitting around unattended all the time. If bikes were constantly being stolen, the bike industry would dry up. (Remember the number 1 rule of economics). It certainly sounds suspicious.

 

Go buy another bike of equivelant condition and offer it to him.

[Firepole 182]

Something doesn't sound quite right. With all the bikes sitting around unlocked why would anyone take the chance of getting caught, by wasting time, stealing one that was chained up? Unless, of course, the "thief" could show ownership, and spare key, if questioned by the BIB about why he's "reposessing" the bike. If you're that worried about it just get the mess cleaned up for your own piece of mind.

I'd go back to him and tell him you want to do the right thing and pay him for the bike but you no longer have the original Bt20,000 that you offered him. Tell him you can only offer him Bt15,000(or whatever) now and that you hope he takes it. Tell him you had unexpected expenses. I'll bet he'll think about the offer and then demand your original offer of Bt20,000. You might even be able to negotiate it down to a little less than Bt20,000 by saying you can "try" to get a couple/few thousand Baht over your new Bt15,000 over. Have your lawyer close the deal for you if the guy goes for it.

Edited May 22, 2006 by cenctm

[Norman 0]

I offered him 10k/month on a schedule. He's ok with that. Deep in my gut, I feel it's him who steals the bikes but part of that is just what's fed to me by the media. On the other hand, he's established and wouldn't want the bad publicity if I were to end up in a bloody pulp somehow after both our names are on a police report. Case closed. I'll pay up.

[lostinspace 0]

My mate had his bike stolen when last trip its cost him 25,000 after a lot of hagling,he was not sure if he was too pissed to remember where it was or it was knocked,

pattaya maiL TV.put a warniing on the the TV a month ago warning that this is a scam by some rental places,if you live here and after all is done, keep going back to see if has been returned,....they did say report it to to police but alot of fucking good that will do ya

if they are smart they will change the plates and colour, is there something you remember on the bike?

if its not in parts or resold already .a reward is a good idea,

hang out till the 3rd,and tell him you will go on TV OR THE EXPATS club,if he has knocked it himself, he might find it for the reward to save hassles.

good luck

[kolobos 0]

Right...so this guy has built up a business with numerous rental bikes outside...but he doesn't have or offer any insurance on them? Norman, you are a right proper lemon...since when do you go renting anything without insurance, when do you ever rent anything without asking about insurance??? Oh and by the way, the insurance in question for motorcycle rental is called rental insurance and is readily available...so why not have this filthy piece of shit exposed in all the media and get him shut down...I mean after all he is gonna pulp your ass anyway if you don't cough the cash up (soft lad)...!

Edited May 22, 2006 by kolobos

[jacko 8,578]

I just took a look at my contract.

They have written on it specifically the value of replacement at 40,000 baht.

The contract is in English and Thai and basically would leave me without a leg to stand on if the bike was stolen or in an accident.

 

Hindsight says, buy your own padlock to use on the chain during your rental.

 

A spare lock and chain is often useful, you can put it on the damned bike that was parked and locked behind you giving you all sorts of problems to get out.

[wrassell 0]

Sounds weird to me, when bikes get stolen the thieves usually go for the easiest pickings. They the thieves also go for the newest bikes they can find. So why go and steal a one year old rented MIO with 15K on the odometer and have to cut the chain and steering lock to get it. Seems to me there are much easier and better pickings all over the place. I mean how long would it take to find a brand new MIO that wasn't all locked up. After you have gone home I wouldn't be surprised if this bike mysteriously turns up some where. I am not saying the guy who rented you the bike was some how involved in that bike coming up missing, but if he was some how involved it wouldn't be the first time I have heard this type of thing happening.

 

Here is a scenario, the guy that rented you the bike has friend. Said friend has keys to all his bikes, Said friend spots one of the rental bikes, not very hard to identify just look for the name or phone number plastered all over the thing. Said friend hops on bike and if confronted said friend has an easy alibye said friend works with the guy that rented you the bike and said friend thought it was stolen and he says, Katort mai pen rai, I take care you only, I sooo soolry. If said friend does get the bike it would be very hard to find said friend with bike and if he was found they would just come up with a story and then said friend would just walk free, remember said friend was only just looking out for you.

 

After the Falang "you" has returned to country of origin the bike miracously turns up. Said friend and accomplice sigh Oh well mai pen rai umm well what we can do, Falang go back him country. Ummm well ohh, ok we sell bike to Lek, another said friend, easy to do we find book for bike, remember the lost book. Lek him need bike for renting out, Falang he rent have too much bike go away. Too bad for Falang no refund for you we out smart you this time.

 

Remember this is just one scenario out of thousands. While I believe most Thai people to be honest I also believe there are many who are not, as with anywhere in the world. When I read this post it just struck me as odd, it just doesn't fit together as a common bike heist. You will probably end up paying the poor guy something for his alleged loss. how much you pay all depends on your bargaining skills and how well connected this guy is. TIT

[wrassell 0]

I forgot to say Sorry for the ordeal you have to go through. It is tough to be victimized by people you trust. I have never and never intend to rent a bike in Pattaya for this very reason. I also know many people that won't rent them either. As a foreigner here you have little or no rights, remember If you are in an accident it is automatically your fault, no matter what. Kinda sucks considering most westerners drive much better than the average Thai does.

 

Anyhow sorry,

[shortonthesides 0]

On my first trip in Thailand I had my bike stolen outside the open market on second rd. I went to the police, no help. I gave my dad a call as if had served in the army in asia for a few years and he told me thais sometiime will take a bike, use it for a day or two and return it where they"borrow the bike" I wnt back the next dayin the evening and the bike was there. I did not a chain on or a lock at the time. fat chance I know, but go back to where it was stolen, borrowed.

 

Just because your lawyer tells you that this guy doesn't want any bad press because he is trying to build up his business, donesn't mean he the bike renter ant shady. A lock and chain should be enough to deter a random thief, this bike had 15K on it already. Ask your lawyer to find out ot you can do it yourself, if this renter has a history of bikes being stolen if so

publish his business name and address on the the broad

[Florida Guy 0]

When I lived in Issan years ago I had a bike stolen (I owned it). When I went to the Police Station to file a report, one of the officers said he'd been in Nongkai the night before and the police there had arrested two Thai dudes in the middle of the night. They had been pushing an out of gas motorcycle that matched the description of mine. He said the Thai cops arrested the two and the bike was impounded at the station.

 

The next day a friend and I went up to the Nongkai Police Station and what a surprise ... nobody knew anything about it! I didn't believe a word of it but what could I do? I figured the Police Chief's son probably got my bike as a birthday present. The whole thing really smelled but I was just a dumb farang and had no rights anyway.

[wrassell 0]

Sorry for your loss, but i had to laugh.

 

is that what they mean when I hear TIT

[leemo 0]

Sorry for your tough situation.

 

To echo what's already been suggested, whatever you end up paying for the stolen bike it should become yours, which means he has to legally transfer it to you together with all documentation. Should it later be found (yeah, sure), it should be repatriated to you as its new owner (yeah, sure).

 

With this in mind, my guess is that if for whatever reason he does not transfer ownership to you, the bike will miraculously turn up soon after you move or leave, and if he does, the bike never sees light again except as spare parts.

 

 

leemo

[mbiggs 1]

After reading the posts on this board, I would not even bother about renting a bike in LOS, especially when all the action is accesible with the baht buses. Not to forget the amount of deaths and accidents on the road in Pattaya. It is just not worth it.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Maybe if you advertised a reward of 5K the bike might show up? Not a good situation when you hire a bike and are responsible if it is stolen. Seems a type of situation I would buy a second hand bike with little second hand value to a thief.

[ttk 236]

One thing not mentioned is how the renter knew it is missing. Since it was not due, how did he know it is missing?

 

Also, one way to reduce chances that the renter takes it is to suppply your own lock. I do tis every trip and had one guy ask me why I used different lock. When I asked him how he knew, subject was rapidly dropped.