Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[TheFiend 1,173]

Oh dear....... looks like the strike is starting to hurt!

 

Boeing plane deliveries hit snag amid worker strike

 

By Matt Andrejczak, MarketWatch

 

Boeing said Friday it delivered 84 planes for the quarter ended Sept. 30 during a time in which its big machinists' union walked off the job with three weeks left in the business period.

 

In the year-earlier quarter, they delivered 109 planes.

 

The strike is having an impact. This week, Virgin Blue Holdings -- Australia's second-largest airline -- was forced to push back the launch of its flight route between Sydney and Los Angeles due to the strike at Boeing. Virgin Blue said Boeing isn't able to deliver the three 777-300ER planes it ordered. Virgin Blue had planned the launch the route in December. It has been pushed back to Feb. 28, 2009.

 

Southwest Airlines said it deferred four Boeing 737-700 aircraft set for delivery in 2009.

On Sept. 6, Boeing's machinists union -- the company's largest, numbering 27,000 -- went on strike to protest a proposed labor contract they said fell short on health-care benefits and job security. The company and the union are trying to settle their differences through a mediator but neither side has talked to each other yet.

Year-to-date, Boeing has delivered 325 commercial planes. Before the strike, the aerospace giant had said its 2008 delivery target was between 475 and 480 planes.

Boeing shares closed Friday at $53.83, up 25 cents. The stock is down 38% so far this year. By comparison, the S&P 500 is off 25%.

 

And Boeing stock down 38% for the year..........

Edited October 5, 2008 by TheFiend

[Indiscipline 6]

Maybe Boeing wants to get some of those so called nasty subsidies that Airbus enjoys.

 

 

Talking about subsidies: The US car makers are getting a 25 Billion US $ credit from the state, to finally develop economical cars. I hope. stooge Nr. 1 stops to complaining about Airbus subdidies now.

Us Tax payer US Car Makers.

[TheFiend 1,173]

Where's the 3 stooges..... they've gone awfully quiet.....

 

Wonder if the following has anything to do with it?

 

James Wallace on Aerospace

 

 

Strike over, but what about 787?

 

787 won't fly until 2009

 

Boeing just told me, officially, that first flight of the 787 is not going to take place in the fourth quarter as previously planned. Of course, given the duration of the 57-day Machinists strike, a delay into 2009 was all but certain.

 

Boeing said it is working on a new post-strike 787 schedule, which is not yet finished, and it can't say when the Dreamliner will finally fly.

 

Meanwhile, Boeing has had more fastener issues with the 787s now in various stages of production in the Everett plant.

 

Some were put in improperly, apparently by Boeing partners. The problem was discovered during inspections on the production planes a couple of weeks ago, during the strike.

 

Boeing tells me it is an "installation" problem, not a production issue.

 

Less than 3 percent of the total fasteners on the four production planes now in the Everett plant, plus the two ground-test planes, were improperly installed.

 

From the start of production, those tiny fasteners have been a huge problem. Initially, there was a fastener shortage. The first 787 arrived in Everett for final assembly with tens of thousands missing.

 

I'll have more on this developing story in a while.

 

For now, Boeing says it does not know the impact of the latest fastener problem on the program schedule.

 

The latest fastener issue was first reported by Air Transport World.

 

It really is turning into a Nightmareliner for Boeing...

 

And add on to that there are rumours of poor quality control on fasteners used on other Boeing products....

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Where's the 3 stooges..... they've gone awfully quiet.....

 

Wonder if the following has anything to do with it?

It really is turning into a Nightmareliner for Boeing...

 

And add on to that there are rumours of poor quality control on fasteners used on other Boeing products....

 

Does this mean that BigD will be completing his Boeing 787 on Schedule to Fly in 2007 2008 2009 trilogy?

 

A cynic could be forgiven that Boeing actually wanted the recent strike to take place in order to paper over some known issues and avoid compensation payments to the airlines for the resulting delays.

Edited November 4, 2008 by CheshireTom

[MrMango 655]

Where's the 3 stooges..... they've gone awfully quiet.....

Not sure who you mean "the 3 stooges".

 

The last post was a month ago, so EVERYBODYS quiet.

[TheFiend 1,173]

The last post was a month ago, so EVERYBODYS quiet.

 

Why has it gone quiet? Because the anti-Airbus three stooges haven't had anything to brag about how well Boeing is doing.

[eltib 54]

Not sure who you mean "the 3 stooges".

 

The last post was a month ago, so EVERYBODYS quiet.

 

You suffering from Alzheimers?

[TheFiend 1,173]

And add on to that there are rumours of poor quality control on fasteners used on other Boeing products....

 

Oh dear - it's not just rumours anymore........ Boeing has admitted that 737s have recently been built and delivered with substandard "nutplates".

 

Looks as though Boeing is having a lot of trouble with quality control during assembly. And it's not just 1 or 2 parts, it is a large numbers of installed fasteners and installed nutplates. These things should have been picked up during assembly not later on.

[eltib 54]

Oh dear - it's not just rumours anymore........ Boeing has admitted that 737s have recently been built and delivered with substandard "nutplates".

 

Looks as though Boeing is having a lot of trouble with quality control during assembly. And it's not just 1 or 2 parts, it is a large numbers of installed fasteners and installed nutplates. These things should have been picked up during assembly not later on.

 

Thanx a bunch. With the recent merger of Delta and Northwest, another airline that was flying Airbus will now stricly be Boeing.

[TheFiend 1,173]

As more and more news comes out about the fastener problem it has been found on all the Nightmareliner airfames in Everett, so it is not an isolated incident. Apparently the holes where the fasteners are used have not been prepared properly. It has happened where the titanium parts have been drilled and but not deburred, and the fasteners aren't sitting in the holes properly.

 

Deburring a hole is a basic engineering skill...... so why has it not been done?

 

Are Boeing engineers and it's suppliers under such pressure to deliver the product to a totally unrealistic timescale that errors in construction are being made? And why has it taken so long for this problem to surface? It looks like Boeings Quality control procedures are failing. There are 6 airframes in Everett all with the same problem.

 

This will delay the Nightmareliner even more. But one thing is for sure - the 787 won't fly this year.

[wacmedia 277]

This will delay the Nightmareliner even more. But one thing is for sure - the 787 won't fly this year.

 

Hi,

 

They have put the date back to next year already. 2010-11 anyone ?

[CheshireTom 1,377]

As more and more news comes out about the fastener problem it has been found on all the Nightmareliner airfames in Everett, so it is not an isolated incident. Apparently the holes where the fasteners are used have not been prepared properly. It has happened where the titanium parts have been drilled and but not deburred, and the fasteners aren't sitting in the holes properly.

 

Deburring a hole is a basic engineering skill...... so why has it not been done?

 

Are Boeing engineers and it's suppliers under such pressure to deliver the product to a totally unrealistic timescale that errors in construction are being made? And why has it taken so long for this problem to surface? It looks like Boeings Quality control procedures are failing. There are 6 airframes in Everett all with the same problem.

 

This will delay the Nightmareliner even more. But one thing is for sure - the 787 won't fly this year.

 

That must have been the world's biggest Airfix model they presented to the world 15 months ago.

 

As was pointed out at the time ...............

 

QUOTE(CheshireTom @ May 20 2007, 02:09 PM)

 

All they're doing is a roll out on 8 July. They could stick it together with glue if that's what's needed......

 

And that's pretty much what they done.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2008 by CheshireTom

[wacmedia 277]

That must have been the world's biggest Airfix model they presented to the world 15 months ago.

 

Hi,

 

Funny shit man, as my friends in the Haight use to say You can't take the snake oil salesman out of an American.

[TheFiend 1,173]

OH DEAR!!!!!......More bad news from Boeing!!!

 

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Boeing said Friday it has moved the delivery of its first 747-8 Freighter plane to the third quarter of 2010 from its original target of late 2009. Further, the Chicago aerospace company also delayed the first delivery of its 747-8 Intercontinental passenger jet to the second quarter of 2011, from late 2010. Boeing said the new schedule reflects the impact of supply-chain delays due to design changes, the limited availability of engineering resources, and the recent machinist strike that had stopped commercial aircraft production for 53 days. Shares of Boeing were down 3.4% to $41.68 in premarket trading

 

And apparently one of 747-8i orders has been cancelled. One of the VIP customers for Boeing Business Jets has pulled out the the deal.

 

Boeing are not having a very good time at the moment???

 

more 787 delays.....

737s delivered with faulty fasteners

and now 747-8 delays

[Samsonite 172]

"This item went largely unnoticed last week from the EADS Airbus press conference:

 

Deliveries of Airbus A380 aircraft may be delayed: EADS

 

PARIS (AFP) - Deliveries of some super-jumbo Airbus A380 airliners scheduled for next year may be delayed until 2010, the head of the European aerospace group EADS said on Friday.

 

"We had planned to deliver 12 A380s in 2008 and 21 in 2009. Some of the 21 for 2009 may be delivered in 2010," EADS head Louis Gallois said in telephone press conference.

 

 

Airbus chief Thomas Enders had bet a magnum of champagne on delivering the 33 aircraft by the 2008 and 2009 time frame."

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

[TheFiend 1,173]

And guess what? Delays have just announced with the 777F program as well...

 

And Scally - you forgot to mention that from the same blog that the first of the second wave of A380 production has flown...

 

At least Airbus are managing to deliver planes..... 737 deliveries have been halted because of Quality Control issues with the non-conforming nutplates.

 

According to Boeing, 737s delivered to customers since August 2007 contained non-conforming nutplates. Boeing's delivery website says that 394 737s were delivered between August 2007 and October 2008.

 

What's that??? 394 faulty 737 delivered!!!!!! OOOOPS!!!!!!!!!

 

Is there any Quality Control at Boeing???? That means 394 planes delivered with substandard components. Why did it take so long before they found out about the nutplates being used weren't up to spec.

Edited November 18, 2008 by TheFiend

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Anyone any idea whatever happened to the despicable Airbus "subsidies"? It seems to have gone a bit quiet on the question of taxpayers being shafted by industrial conglomerates.

[jacko 8,578]

Anyone any idea whatever happened to the despicable Airbus "subsidies"? It seems to have gone a bit quiet on the question of taxpayers being shafted by industrial conglomerates. Yeah, that doesn't happen in the USA does it? I'm hoping to buy a good US taxpayer subsidised Ford early in 2009!

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

More delays with the Nightmareliner.

 

Another six-month 787 Dreamliner delay?

 

Posted: December 08, 2008, 2:48 PM by Scott Deveau

.

The Boeing Co. may not deliver its first 787 Dreamliner until the summer of 2010 after a recent strike by its machinists, according the a report in the Wall Street Journal [subscription required].

 

 

The Chicago-based manufacturer may announce further delays by the end of the month, which could push the delivery of the first plane to All Nippon Airways out two years later than originally expected - the report says citing unnamed sources.

 

 

Boeing has sold more than 900 of the fuel efficient aircraft to customers around the globe, including 37 to Air Canada.

 

Earlier this year, Boeing pushed out the delivery of Air Canada's planes until 2012 after repeated problems with the plane's development.

 

The country's largest carrier plans to meet with Boeing in the first part of December to determine whether there will be further delays.

 

Scott Deveau

[BigDUSA 71]

Anyone any idea whatever happened to the despicable Airbus "subsidies"? It seems to have gone a bit quiet on the question of taxpayers being shafted by industrial conglomerates.

 

 

There still there with the underlying fact that after all these years in business Airbus still needs 'launch aid'. In other words Airbus can't cut the financial mustard.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

There still there with the underlying fact that after all these years in business Airbus still needs 'launch aid'. In other words Airbus can't cut the financial mustard.

 

Apparently government subsidies are the way to go nowadays.

[wacmedia 277]

Apparently government subsidies are the way to go nowadays.

 

Hi,

 

Especially if you are an American car company.

[Samsonite 172]

Here we go again:

 

"Boeing Schedules 787 Dreamliner First Flight for Second Quarter 2009; First Delivery for First Quarter 2010

Schedule change driven by impact of Machinists' strike and fastener replacement work."

 

Story here: http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2008/q4/081211a_nr.html

******

 

I've been a fan of Boeing since the Dash-80 (707), but this doesn't appear to me to be the same company. My anger and the almost sense of betrayal, for a lack of a better word, perhaps I should say, bitter disappointment, over the 787 program is beyond words.

 

As the financial world fell apart over the last couple of months it became apparent that somewhere along the line basic management principles were thrown out the window. and those, oh, so bright, MBA types, have taken us down the wrong road.

 

Management in all industries need to get back to basics. If you have noticed, the banks that haven't gotten themselves in trouble, are those who stayed away from the financial shenanigans of the last 25 years or so, and concentrated on their core business, good old fashion banking. There is a lesson there to be learned.

Edited December 12, 2008 by Scalawag

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Here we go again:

 

"Boeing Schedules 787 Dreamliner First Flight for Second Quarter 2009; First Delivery for First Quarter 2010

Schedule change driven by impact of Machinists' strike and fastener replacement work."

 

Story here: http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2008/q4/081211a_nr.html

******

 

I've been a fan of Boeing since the Dash-80 (707), but this doesn't appear to me to be the same company. My anger and the almost sense of betrayal, for a lack of a better word, perhaps I should say, bitter disappointment, over the 787 program is beyond words.

 

As the financial world fell apart over the last couple of months it became apparent that somewhere along the line basic management principles were thrown out the window. and these, oh, so bright, MBA types, have taken us down the wrong road.

 

Management in all industries need to get back to basics. If you have noticed, the banks that haven't gotten themselves in trouble, are those who stayed away from the financial shenanigans of the last 25 years or so, and concentrated on their core business, good old fashion banking. There is a lesson there to be learned.

 

 

The whole fiasco should come as no surprise. Over two years ago I predicted exactly the problems that they were likely to encounter.

 

 

CheshireTom Posted on: Sep 29 2006, 08:04 PM

 

Whether the worldwide production line actually works in practice (it hasn't put one aircraft together yet) remains to be seen and a strike in Italy, the UK, Japan, Australia etc will bring the whole manufacturing process to a standstill. If you think that Airbus has had production problems with the 380 up till now it's peanuts compared to what lies in store when the 787 actually starts production.

 

Anyone for humble pie?

Edited December 12, 2008 by CheshireTom

[BigDUSA 71]

Beijing wants its airlines to get out of as many aircraft orders as possible.

 

 

Boeing and Airbus can give up any hope that Chinese demand might help offset their global sales slump. The country's aviation industry regulator has advised mainland airlines to cancel or postpone aircraft deliveries in 2009, as carriers struggle with a decline in air travel demand. Clamoring for government handouts, the airlines will listen, though they may have a hard time extracting concessions from suppliers.

 

The Civil Aviation Administration of China released guidelines Wednesday advising airlines to cancel or delay delivery of purchased aircraft in 2009. It also asked airlines to retire old aircraft and said it will not consider any new airline applications until 2010, according to a statement. The regulator encouraged further alliances and consolidation.

 

The once booming Chinese airline sector is suffering from overcapacity amid a slump in travel that started in the second half of 2008 as the economy began to cool. The airlines also have suffered from a wave of steep fuel-hedging losses, as oil plunged below $50 a barrel from over $140 a barrel during the summer.

 

Despite the government's encouragement, it is unclear how many aircraft orders can be canceled or postponed. "I don't think too much flexibility will be given to the airlines because Boeing and Airbus are also facing declining orders" in the U.S. and Europe, said Kelvin Lau, Hong Kong-based airline analyst for Daiwa Securities. "If they allow one airline to defer delivery, many more will want to do the same."

 

But Boeing might allow more leeway than its archrival Airbus, a unit of EADS, as the U.S. giant is facing difficulty meeting delivery schedules due to a labor strike that ended in November, he added.

 

Guotai Junan Securities analyst Martin Wang said the regulator's announcement may not have much impact without incentives, and noted that the commercial decisions remain in the airlines' hands. Delivery cancellations can also be expensive, as airlines typically put up in advance up to 30% of the purchase price, Lau said. Wang estimated penalties for contract changes may run 5% to 10% of the contract price.

 

Chinese airlines are on course to lose big this year. Beijing injected 3 billion yuan ($437.0 million) in November into China Southern Airlines which Wang expects to post a loss of nearly 1 billion yuan ($145.7 million) for 2008. Wang and Lau expect China Eastern Airlines to get a similar government aid package--Wang estimates it is on track to post a loss of over 3 billion yuan ($437.0 million) for the year. Air China ) is in the best shape of the three big Chinese airlines and may get by without aid.

 

 

Looks like bad news for Boeing/Airbus.