Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[Hub 203]

Out of necessity!

 

It's always good to have an extra 380 around in case you drive it into something with a crowd around!

[BigDUSA 71]

So many problems with the Trent series of Rolls Royce engines. So few in service and yes it's a potential disaster.

 

SYDNEY – Australia's flagship carrier Qantas said Wednesday it has reached a 95 million Australian dollars ($100 million) settlement with Rolls Royce over last year's mid-air disintegration of a superjumbo engine, which temporarily forced the grounding of its entire fleet of A380s.

 

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce said the terms of the agreement are confidential, but said the settlement's profit and loss impact would amount to a 95 million Australian dollars ($100 million) boost for the Australian carrier.

 

In November, a Rolls Royce engine on a Qantas A380 disintegrated shortly after takeoff from Singapore, forcing the plane to make an emergency landing.

 

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau's interim report on the A380 incident said a manufacturing defect in an oil pipe deep within one of the engines led to an oil leak, which sparked a fire. The fire caused a disintegration of one of the engine's giant turbine discs, sending pieces of it shooting through the plane's wing.

QUOTE

[TheFiend 1,181]

It's always good to have an extra 380 around in case you drive it into something with a crowd around!

 

Well done to Airbus for repairing the damage and returning F-WWDD to the Airshow. They're are rumours of a new A380 order being announced during the show, if they can find the time to fit the announcement in with all the A320NEO orders that are being announced....

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Airbus seem to be doing well.

 

 

Airbus and IndiGo confirm record deal for 180 aircraft

 

The IndiGo order is the biggest ever in terms of aircraft numbers - but may soon be topped Airbus piled up the orders at the Paris Air Show as it confirmed the largest single order of aircraft in aviation history.Indian budget airline IndiGo is buying 180 planes from Airbus worth about $15.6bn (£9.7bn) at list prices.

 

The deal is for 150 of Airbus' new fuel efficient A320neo jets and 30 A320s.

 

It follows a memorandum of understanding between the two companies signed in January this year.

 

More deals are expected for Airbus at the air show, one of them being from Malaysia's AirAsia.

 

AirAsia is expected to top IndiGo's deal with an order for 200 revamped A320neos and options to buy 100 more.

 

Airbus, owned by EADS, has left rival Boeing far behind in terms of orders at the event, as high fuel costs increase the demand for fuel efficient aircraft.

 

The company estimates it has sold more than 700 A320neo jets so far.

 

"There is a possibility that we will be at 1,000 by the end of the show," said Airbus sales chief John Leahy.

 

According to the BBC's aerospace industry specialist, Jorn Madslien, the A320neos are proving popular because their two new engines are 15% more fuel efficient and 30% cheaper to maintain than current models.

 

 

But Airbus' success leaves Boeing with a very tough dilemma, our correspondent at the air show says.

 

The US planemaker's A320 rival is the 737, but the plane is very low, so fitting modern, fuel-efficient engines under its wings would be a tight squeeze.

Making it happen would require a new undercarriage, which is costly and difficult, as well as time-consuming, he says.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Hi,

 

Airbus seem to be doing well.

 

 

Airbus and IndiGo confirm record deal for 180 aircraft

 

The IndiGo order is the biggest ever in terms of aircraft numbers - but may soon be topped Airbus piled up the orders at the Paris Air Show as it confirmed the largest single order of aircraft in aviation history.Indian budget airline IndiGo is buying 180 planes from Airbus worth about $15.6bn (£9.7bn) at list prices.

 

The Boeing fanboys seem to have gone quiet...... wonder why? It looks like the 320NEO has blown away the 737NG this year!!!

[BigDUSA 71]

The Boeing fanboys seem to have gone quiet...... wonder why? It looks like the 320NEO has blown away the 737NG this year!!!

 

So far Airbus is having a good year. Let's not forget. The more Airbus sells. The deeper the EU Taxpayer has to reach into his pocket to support Airbus. EU Taxpayer Airbus.

[TheFiend 1,181]

So far Airbus is having a good year. Let's not forget. The more Airbus sells. The deeper the EU Taxpayer has to reach into his pocket to support Airbus. EU Taxpayer Airbus.

 

Why is that? You seem to forget that the A320 series is a moneymaker for Airbus....

 

Also, the A380 program is expected to start making a profit around 2014/2015. And congrats to Airbus for securing another 12 orders for the A380. Incidentally airlines that are sing the A380 have all seen an increase in passenger numbers whilst their competitors have seen a decrease. Passengers want to fly A380.

 

And I certainly don't complain my taxes have gone to help Airbus develop some great aircraft.

Edited June 23, 2011 by TheFiend

[MrMango 667]

Also, the A380 program is expected to start making a profit around 2014/2015. And congrats to Airbus for securing another 12 orders for the A380. Incidentally airlines that are sing the A380 have all seen an increase in passenger numbers whilst their competitors have seen a decrease.

Please post sources for your crazy statement - Make a profit? How about covering the development costs?

 

 

Passengers want to fly A380.

I have not seen any information either for or against this statement - Sources?

[TheFiend 1,181]

Passengers want to fly A380.

 

I have not seen any information either for or against this statement - Sources?

 

Well some people must want to fly them..... passenger numbers passed them million mark a long time ago....

[MrMango 667]

Well some people must want to fly them..... passenger numbers passed them million mark a long time ago....

I notice you ducked my question of your absurd statement that they were close to making a profit on the 380.

 

When you make a statement like that a honorable man would be prepared to back it up or apologize.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

I notice you ducked my question of your absurd statement that they were close to making a profit on the 380.

 

When you make a statement like that a honorable man would be prepared to back it up or apologize.

 

I think you should, as any honorable man would, apologise to The Fiend for questioning his integrity.

 

Of course, you can provide evidence to prove otherwise.

 

 

[MrMango 667]

I think you should, as any honorable man would, apologise to The Fiend for questioning his integrity.

Why on earth should I do that?

IMHO, I acted wtih complete honor - He made a absurd statement IMHO, and I politely asked him for his sources and did not berate him in any way - I wished to see them and then I could respond.

 

When he conveniently refused to back up his statement, IMHO, that is way over the line.

 

When you post a declaration that is of questionable honesty, you will and should be challenged.

 

You are way out of line, IMHO.

[Samsonite 181]

Why is that? You seem to forget that the A320 series is a moneymaker for Airbus....

 

Also, the A380 program is expected to start making a profit around 2014/2015. And congrats to Airbus for securing another 12 orders for the A380.

Their narrow body aircraft are the bread and butter of both Airbus and Boeing. The big winner at this airshow was the 320NEO (re-engined) and the derivatives of the same (319,321, etc.)

A large number of orders was expected, but many were probably surprised by the size of some of the orders. Most of the orders were from existing Airbus customers, so Boeing still has time to make their decision as to what to do with their 737, i.e., re-engine it or build a new replacement from scratch. OTOH, if Boeing were to lose a major customer to the 320NEO then they will have to make a decision sooner than later. There is a rumor that AA (American Airlines) is talking to Airbus about a 100 airplane order to

their replace MD-80s).

 

As to the flying citroen, I've been reading the aviation press and haven't been able to find anything about 12 FIRM orders for the A380. One airline out of Japan did place a firm order for two at the last minute and there are rumors of a 10 unit MOI, but nothing firm on that ten and no airline has been named.

Boeing on the other hand did sell 19 B747-8s and their total wide body orders for the show were 51 or 52.

 

At the rate Airbus is building and delivering the A380 it will be long after 2015 before they ever seen a profit, but hell, there is more than one way to cook the books.

 

As to "Passengers want to fly A380"; most passengers wouldn't know a 380 from a 757 and could care less.

Whatever you smoking, pass it around will you?

 

 

"Airbus concludes busy Paris Air Show with AirAsia order for 200 A320neos

 

By Carole Shifrin | June 24, 2011

 

"A massive order Thursday from Malaysia’s fast-growing, low-cost carrier AirAsia for 200 A320neos capped a record Paris Air Show for Airbus, bringing its total orders and commitments for the week to 730 aircraft from 16 customers.

 

The tally includes purchase orders for 418 aircraft (some of which had been previously announced as MOUs) valued at about $44 billion at list prices, and new MOUs for another 312 aircraft worth about $28.3 million at list prices. Airbus’s biggest seller at the air show by far was the A320neo; it now has secured a total of 1,029 commitments for the re-engined aircraft since its launch in December 2010.

 

The order from AirAsia for 200 A320neos, valued at $18.5 billion, tops Wednesday’s deal for 150 A320neos and 30 standard A320s placed by IndiGo, which had been previously announced (ATW Daily News, June 23). AirAsia is now the largest customer for the A320 family of aircraft, with a total of 375 ordered and 89 already in service.

 

AirAsia, which has selected the CFM International's Leap-X engine for its neos, expects to take delivery of 12-15 aircraft each year beginning in 2016. First deliveries of the A320neo begin in 2015.

 

AirAsia Group CEO Tony Fernandes said the deal for the new aircraft secures the carrier’s ability to meet the huge growth potential offered by the Asian market. "Our decision to be one of the launch customers for the A320neo will ensure that we remain at the forefront of our business, with one of the world's youngest and most modern fleets,” he added.

 

India’s GoAir also added to the A320neo backlog with a firm order for 72 aircraft. The carrier already operates 10 A320s and will take the remaining 10 A320s from its original order over the next two years.

 

Airbus President and CEO Tom Enders said he "largely underestimated the market demand for neo before this show. Le Bourget 2011 is a strong confirmation of our product strategy.”

 

Another order at the tail end of the show boosted the order book for the A380. Skymark Airlines, Japan’s third-largest carrier, placed orders for two more A380s, which brings its total commitment to six aircraft. The carrier plans to start operations with the A380 on international routes linking Tokyo Narita to destinations in Europe and the US."

 

http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engines-components/news/airbus-concludes-busy-paris-air-show-airasia-order-200-a320neos-062

Edited June 24, 2011 by Samsonite

[jacko 8,813]

So far Airbus is having a good year. Let's not forget. The more Airbus sells. The deeper the EU Taxpayer has to reach into his pocket to support Airbus. EU Taxpayer Airbus.

A more relevent pont I read recently was that effectively the EU is subsidising the demise of it's own airline industry. Carriers like Emirates and a few others have made big purchases from Airbus using 'credit/finaqncial arrangements' offered from Europe. That in itself is Europe subsidisnig Airbus, but nothing new there. Sadly, those very aircraft then compete with the European carriers, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, BA etc etc. The number of flights leaving daily from Manchester to the Middle East now certainly is not all oil worker passengers. Travellers to Far afield will use these ME carriers, which often offer better prices and quality of service than say BA.

I use them myself. But I have a phobia about BA and Heathrow.

Edited June 24, 2011 by jacko

[jacko 8,813]

 

I have not seen any information either for or against this statement - Sources?

Emirates, for example, seem to charge more for legs where the A380 is utilised. I noticed when trying to book recently. That suggests there is more of a demand for the A380 seats. Even on a personal level, I would like to give the Emirates A380 Biz Class a go, it is just that I prefer to pay less not more.

 

As to when the A380 will be profitable...

 

He said the A380 program was not behind its production plan for 18 months and should be profitable in 2014 or 2015. Source.

Plenty of places where you can find such a statement, whether it is credible, well, who knows, money gets moved around from column to column doesn't it?

Edited June 24, 2011 by jacko

[CheshireTom 1,377]

 

When you post a declaration that is of questionable honesty ...

 

There was nothing "questionable" about his post, least of all his honesty!

 

All that was highlighted, again, is that you, in common with the other two stooges, are ill-informed, if informed at all.

Edited June 24, 2011 by CheshireTom

[MrMango 667]

There was nothing "questionable" about his post, least of all his honesty!

You sir, are delusional. Nothing questionable about his post? He claimed without sources that the 380 was soon to be profitable - A JOKE!

 

When I politely asked for sources for hie outrageous statement, he refused.

 

That in my book is being dishonest.

 

 

 

All that was highlighted, again, is that you, in common with the other two stooges, are ill-informed, if informed at all.

How come you are responding for him? Ar you his alter ego?

 

All honorable men I know will defend themselves rather than hide behind the skirts of another.

[TheFiend 1,181]

How come you are responding for him? Ar you his alter ego?

 

All honorable men I know will defend themselves rather than hide behind the skirts of another.

 

Oh dear, look like MrMango is starting to pick up BigD's bad habits with quotes.

 

As for failure to reply to your demands... ever heard of search engines? At the tine of my previous reply I was just head up to the bedroom to join my Thai bed-warmer, and I think her needs take priority over MrMangos.....

 

Thanks to Tom for backing up my post whilst I was nicely tucked up in bed.

[TheFiend 1,181]

As to the flying citroen, I've been reading the aviation press and haven't been able to find anything about 12 FIRM orders for the A380. One airline out of Japan did place a firm order for two at the last minute and there are rumors of a 10 unit MOI, but nothing firm on that ten and no airline has been named.

 

Boeing on the other hand did sell 19 B747-8s and their total wide body orders for the show were 51 or 52.

 

At the rate Airbus is building and delivering the A380 it will be long after 2015 before they ever seen a profit, but hell, there is more than one way to cook the books.

 

As to "Passengers want to fly A380"; most passengers wouldn't know a 380 from a 757 and could care less.

Whatever you smoking, pass it around will you?

 

 

"

 

Boeing total wide-body orders was less than that number because some of those orders announced at Paris were already logged as "unidentified customers"... And one of the other "orders" was a "Letter of Intent"

 

As for passengers wanting to fly the A380... people have heard of them, just like they have heard of Jumbos or Concorde.

 

With regards to the NEO orders, it demonstrates airlines want to invest in newer, more fuel efficient and lower emmissions technology. Boeing, sitting on the fence before deciding what to do, will suffer because of it. Airbus have a head start on them because of that.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

 

Thanks to Tom for backing up my post whilst I was nicely tucked up in bed.

 

Don't mention it. It wasn't exactly difficult.

 

I liked Leahy's quip about the ten A380s being for an unidentified customer.

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2011 by CheshireTom

[BigDUSA 71]

Oh dear, look like MrMango is starting to pick up BigD's bad habits with quotes.

 

As for failure to reply to your demands... ever heard of search engines? At the tine of my previous reply I was just head up to the bedroom to join my Thai bed-warmer, and I think her needs take priority over MrMangos.....

 

Thanks to Tom for backing up my post whilst I was nicely tucked up in bed.

 

What bad habit's are you referring to? At least I don't go around making up phony quotes.

[MrMango 667]

What bad habit's are you referring to? At least I don't go around making up phony quotes.

Give it up - It is patently obvious that they are the alter ego of each other.

[Samsonite 181]

...With regards to the NEO orders, it demonstrates airlines want to invest in newer, more fuel efficient and lower emmissions technology. Boeing, sitting on the fence before deciding what to do, will suffer because of it. Airbus have a head start on them because of that.

The a320NEO is playing catch up with the 737NG and at this point there is not much else, other than a new engine, Boeing can do to improve the 737, so....

 

"“We have the design pretty much on the shelf to do the re-engine. The question is, Do we want to evolve … or do we want to take more risk and design an airplane for the next 50 years?”

 

Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO James Albaugh."

[Samsonite 181]

"China blurs A380 order, backs 747 amid EU row

 

By Tim Hepher – Fri Jun 24, 2:20 pm ET

LE BOURGET, France (Reuters) – China downgraded the announcement of an Airbus superjumbo order and signed up for the Boeing 747-8 as deals worth $9 billion coincided with a row over European emissions trading rules, industry sources said.

The deals both involved parts of the HNA airlines group and had been planned before the Paris Air Show, they said, but the decision not to announce the names of the buyers triggered one of the mysteries of this week's event.

Industry sources said plans to announce a high-profile $3.8 billion deal between Airbus and Hong Kong Airlines for 10 A380 superjumbos were called off on Thursday because of China's anger over European plans to charge airlines for emissions.

China threatened last month to hold back on purchasing Airbus aircraft because of the EU emissions trading scheme, which airlines body IATA has called illegal.

Additionally, industry sources said a company affiliated to the same carrier, Hainan Airlines, was behind the unexpected announcement of an anonymous deal at Boeing this week.

Boeing said an unidentified airline had provisionally committed to 15 747-8 passenger jets worth $4.8 billion.

Airlines often choose to buy jetliners without identifying themselves to their competition, but such announcements are rarely made at air shows which are designed for publicity. Boeing also rarely announces deals before they are confirmed.

Airbus (EAD.PA) and Boeing (BA.N) declined to comment and representatives of the HNA Group were not available.

Hong Kong Airlines is 46 percent owned by HNA Group, the parent of Hainan Airlines Co Ltd (600221.SS).

TEMPTING TARGET

Airbus and Boeing both brought their largest passenger jets to the show, a biennial event which rotates with the Farnborough Air Show in Britain.

The 747-8 with 467 seats is Boeing's first stretched version of the 747 and is in the midst of flight testing. It will enter service initially as a freighter, then in a passenger version.

The 525-seat A380 is the world's largest airliner and Europe's most high-profile aircraft since Concorde, making it a tempting target in any political tensions affecting aerospace.

The Airbus deal has not itself been blocked and is in the manufacturer's order book, but the decision to cancel a signing ceremony is a clear protest signal, the industry sources said.

Aircraft purchases also need Chinese government approval.

The 747-8 purchase followed competition between Airbus and Boeing for the Hong Kong Airlines order.

While advancing development of its own smaller airplane, China tends to balance orders between the two foreign suppliers.

From Jan 1 next year, the EU will require all airlines flying to Europe to be included in the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), a system that compels polluters to buy permits for each tonne of carbon dioxide they emit above a certain cap.

China's top aviation industry body ramped up pressure on the European Union earlier this month, saying it would give full support to legal action against the forced entry of airlines into the EU's carbon trading scheme. [iD:nL3E7H60D5]

China says the scheme is unfair for developing countries and costly.

(Additional reporting by Matthias Blamont; Editing by Jon Loades-Carter)"

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110624/bs_nm/us_airshow_china

[TheFiend 1,181]

The a320NEO is playing catch up with the 737NG and at this point there is not much else, other than a new engine, Boeing can do to improve the 737, so....

 

"“We have the design pretty much on the shelf to do the re-engine. The question is, Do we want to evolve … or do we want to take more risk and design an airplane for the next 50 years?”

 

Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO James Albaugh."

 

The 737 is a 45 year old design and the NG was a reaction to the A320. It is time for Boeing to start with a clean sheet.