Discrimination

[som nam na 0]

People discriminate judged on the Status Quo,Indians / Arabs / Turks / Middle Eastern are known as cheap charlies in Pattaya.

Ce la Vie !

 

For me its nothing to do with race ...but character traits ... cheap charlies (of whatever origin) and bad behavior justify discrimination ... for behavior not colour or ethnic origin

[jacko 8,578]

Hi Folks

 

I am a British Indian (born and brought up in the UK) of the Hindu faith (but not particularly religious).

 

Someone well-versed in the Pattaya scene directed me to this site.

 

I originate from north India, and so am tall and reasonably fair. I could pass myself off as Greek I suppose, but I could equally well be mistaken for an Arab.

 

What I have read on this thread has been of concern to me, since I really do not like the idea of being discriminated against because of my appearance or because of an assumption that I am a Muslim. Coming from the UK, the most liberal and racially harmonious place in Europe, my concerns are particularly heightened. This is even more hurtful for me, given that Lord Buddha was of Indian extraction; moreover my first name is actually Buddhist !! I would add that India, like Thailand, is also at war with Islamic terrorists.

 

In order to alleviate my concerns about discrimination, it was suggested to me that I initially pop over to FLB in order to introduce myself. Would any of you on these forums be likely to be around in Pattaya in July / August this year ?

 

Many thanks.

Are you Indian or British?

Anytime you might pop into the FLB, you would likely find BMs who would be quick to socialise.

There are also quite a lot of Go-Go bars very popular with British of Indian descent. The few that discriminate are that, the few.

Welcome to Pattaya!

[indianbrit 0]

Are you Indian or British?

Anytime you might pop into the FLB, you would likely find BMs who would be quick to socialise.

There are also quite a lot of Go-Go bars very popular with British of Indian descent. The few that discriminate are that, the few.

Welcome to Pattaya!

 

Hi Jacko

 

I am British Indian i.e. born in London, educated in British schools and universities, but with Indian parents.

 

Technically, I am a Brit, since that's what my passport says!!

 

Yes, the FLB bar has been mentioned to me in very favourable terms by someone who is definitely well-versed in the Pattaya scene. FLB will most certainly be my first port of call upon arrival in LOS.

 

I would most certainly like to hook up with Brits, Europeans, Americans and Antipodeans, given that my personality and lifestyle is Western and not Indian -- irrespective of my origins. So it seems like FLB is the place to come.

 

 

____________________________

 

Hi som nam na

 

I would most certainly hope that those lovely Thai girls do not perceive me as a cheap charlie.

 

Being labelled a cheap charlie would be highly anachronistic, in view of my current heaving drinking behaviour !

[mmaaarrrkkk 41]

I'm having a laugh at the bars that imposed 'cover charge' or deny entry to certain colors that closed the last few months.

 

I'm sure our satangs didnt count when the books came out!

[nidnoyham 30]

Certainly not southern Thai Muslims.

 

 

Then who ?

 

Would Middle Eastern Muslims be interested in traveling all the way to LOS, when they have oodles of Americans in Iraq/ Afghanistan to bomb ?

 

Mind you, it would save them Pakistanis ( Joe's or Bacon's ) a long flight back to Blighty to blow us up.

[indianbrit 0]

Then who ?

 

Would Middle Eastern Muslims be interested in traveling all the way to LOS, when they have oodles of Americans in Iraq/ Afghanistan to bomb ?

 

Mind you, it would save them Pakistanis ( Joe's or Bacon's ) a long flight back to Blighty to blow us up.

 

nidnoyham

 

As a fellow Brit (and one of Indian extraction), I must assume that your post was tongue in cheek. If not, I do find it somewhat questionable. Let us not forget that the BNP use the term "paki" to encapsulate anyone from South Asia (India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh). Stereotypes are generalisations and, as such, suck. We in Britain have had a highly questionable history of morally reprehensible colonialism, but it is gratifying to recognise that we have grown out of that dark historical phase and the UK is now the most vibrant and liberal bastion of multiculturalism in Europe, and possibly on the planet.

 

To be even-handed, I would add that it is embarrasing for me (as part of the Indian diaspora) that Indians in particular have created a "cheap charlie" vision in the mindsets of the gorgeous Thai girls. But these are money-deficient Indians from India (and not necessarily all of them), and most certainly not the more well-heeled variety of professional Indian (doctors, investment bankers, businessmen etc) from the USA and Europe. I would hope that Thai bar owners have the vision and the human decency to not ban Indians simply because they are Indian. Such practice in the UK would lead to a swathe of lawsuits and the closing down of bars which operate in such a discriminatory manner. Does Thailand not have race discrimination legislation?

 

I have heard very encouraging things about FLB and can only hope that indigenously-owned and run bars learn from the FLB modus operandus.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Certainly not southern Thai Muslims.

 

 

Then who ?

 

Would Middle Eastern Muslims be interested in traveling all the way to LOS, when they have oodles of Americans in Iraq/ Afghanistan to bomb ?

 

Mind you, it would save them Pakistanis ( Joe's or Bacon's ) a long flight back to Blighty to blow us up.

 

No more so than they'd be willing to travel all the way to the US or UK, I suppose.

[The Jock Bomb 0]

Then who ?

 

Would Middle Eastern Muslims be interested in traveling all the way to LOS, when they have oodles of Americans in Iraq/ Afghanistan to bomb ?

 

Mind you, it would save them Pakistanis ( Joe's or Bacon's ) a long flight back to Blighty to blow us up.

 

nidnoyham

 

As a fellow Brit (and one of Indian extraction), I must assume that your post was tongue in cheek. If not, I do find it somewhat questionable. Let us not forget that the BNP use the term "paki" to encapsulate anyone from South Asia (India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh). Stereotypes are generalisations and, as such, suck. We in Britain have had a highly questionable history of morally reprehensible colonialism, but it is gratifying to recognise that we have grown out of that dark historical phase and the UK is now the most vibrant and liberal bastion of multiculturalism in Europe, and possibly on the planet.

 

To be even-handed, I would add that it is embarrasing for me (as part of the Indian diaspora) that Indians in particular have created a "cheap charlie" vision in the mindsets of the gorgeous Thai girls. But these are money-deficient Indians from India (and not necessarily all of them), and most certainly not the more well-heeled variety of professional Indian (doctors, investment bankers, businessmen etc) from the USA and Europe. I would hope that Thai bar owners have the vision and the human decency to not ban Indians simply because they are Indian. Such practice in the UK would lead to a swathe of lawsuits and the closing down of bars which operate in such a discriminatory manner. Does Thailand not have race discrimination legislation?

 

I have heard very encouraging things about FLB and can only hope that indigenously-owned and run bars learn from the FLB modus operandus.

 

I think you are missing the point about this part of the off topic debate. BNP has nothing to do with Thailand and nothing what so ever to do with the matter under debate, its even further off topic :) Unlike the UK Thailand has very little, if any, acceptance of multiculturalism and comparing stereotyping to that of the BNP just cannot be done I am afraid. That 'party' is one of the few without similar democratic rights of the other political parties within the UK. Whether it be right or wrong.

 

Whether you are an Indian from SE Asia, America, UK, Germany, France, some Thai's will not accept or even try to understand that. Certain gogo's couldn't care less. I would say grow a very thick skin before you go and do not expect ANYTHING like you have in the UK. As stated previously there are absolutely no racial discrimination laws, EVERYONE who is not Thai is discriminated against in some way.

 

To go out, with the attitude you currently display is going to bring you much displeasure and probably result in you losing the plot!

 

As they say in Star Wars, you have much to learn young Jedi!

 

Some pointers:

 

1. Try and understand Thai culture, if you can, or at least some of it.

2. Never question a Thai, their minds work back to front and up side down, you will never figure out some of their methods.

3. Expect discrimination where ever you go, everyone gets it.

4. Remember this is Thailand NOT the UK do not even start to compare the pair, as they are completely and totally at odds with each other.

5. Many go because they like the lack of PC bullshit and the openess. I for one couldn't give a flying fuck if I am discriminated against, I love the freedom given by the openess. A spade is a spade, the way it should be

6. Do not try crying any racial crap as many do in the UK or you will be laughed out of the bar and probably end up in more serious shit shortly afterwards for questioning the Thai's.

 

In all just go with an open mind and enjoy the atmosphere. 95% of bars will not discriminate against you and those that do most will be ok after you explain you come from the UK. But face it, if they didn't want your custom before why bother explaining anything? Just move on to the bar next door and let them watch you spend your baht's :)

 

Oh and one last thing NEVER EVER EVER speak badly of the King, or you will find yourself in the monkey house for a few years :)

Edited April 14, 2009 by The Jock Bomb

[nidnoyham 30]

Then who ?

 

Would Middle Eastern Muslims be interested in traveling all the way to LOS, when they have oodles of Americans in Iraq/ Afghanistan to bomb ?

 

Mind you, it would save them Pakistanis ( Joe's or Bacon's ) a long flight back to Blighty to blow us up.

 

nidnoyham

 

As a fellow Brit (and one of Indian extraction), I must assume that your post was tongue in cheek. If not, I do find it somewhat questionable. Let us not forget that the BNP use the term "paki" to encapsulate anyone from South Asia (India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh). Stereotypes are generalisations and, as such, suck. We in Britain have had a highly questionable history of morally reprehensible colonialism, but it is gratifying to recognise that we have grown out of that dark historical phase and the UK is now the most vibrant and liberal bastion of multiculturalism in Europe, and possibly on the planet.

 

To be even-handed, I would add that it is embarrasing for me (as part of the Indian diaspora) that Indians in particular have created a "cheap charlie" vision in the mindsets of the gorgeous Thai girls. But these are money-deficient Indians from India (and not necessarily all of them), and most certainly not the more well-heeled variety of professional Indian (doctors, investment bankers, businessmen etc) from the USA and Europe. I would hope that Thai bar owners have the vision and the human decency to not ban Indians simply because they are Indian. Such practice in the UK would lead to a swathe of lawsuits and the closing down of bars which operate in such a discriminatory manner. Does Thailand not have race discrimination legislation?

 

I have heard very encouraging things about FLB and can only hope that indigenously-owned and run bars learn from the FLB modus operandus.

 

 

Yes we do have laws in Britain about who we can like and dislike. As I said previously, had they not been in place this problem would be repeated all over the West.

 

The poor people of India who do this cheap charlie stuff ? Bollocks ! The ones I have seen grabbing girls and assaulting them, were all well dressed young men in Turbans.

 

Yes The British did have a huge Empire and the Indian has done very well out of it. I have seen the way they treated the Africans in Kenya. It made the BNP look like liberals. The word Arrogant falls well short.

My Kenya Asian girlfreind of many yeras ago was scared to death her dad would find out she was seeing an

Englishman. In her own words " He will kill me".

 

I don't like being lectured to, by someone from the ' victim status' of society. I live in an area where the Indians took over the Council, running it to suit their mates and for a while, the personnel department of B.A. There they were disposing of non Indian applications. 10 years ago my mate, a Rolls Royce Engineer, made the remark that all new secretaries in his department were Indian.

 

Don't give me the poor, down trodden angle.

 

Recent reports suggest that Britain's feel less secure in their own country than ever before.

 

Before you come out with the Racist bit, my Thai lady is making tea and an Iraqi is having a chat in my garden with my son. ( and playing with Herbert my dog )

[CheshireTom 1,377]

We in Britain have had a highly questionable history of morally reprehensible colonialism, but it is gratifying to recognise that we have grown out of that dark historical phase and the UK is now the most vibrant and liberal bastion of multiculturalism in Europe, and possibly on the planet.

 

It wasn't morally reprehensible colonialism. All we were trying to do was instill a vibrant and liberal bastion of multiculturism but the natives weren't overly keen on that happening.

Edited April 14, 2009 by CheshireTom

[bibzo 7]

And you forgot to mention the British shop keepers driven out of business because they could nor import slave labour to work in the corner shops dressed up as family members from the sub continent.

[indianbrit 0]

Then who ?

 

Would Middle Eastern Muslims be interested in traveling all the way to LOS, when they have oodles of Americans in Iraq/ Afghanistan to bomb ?

 

Mind you, it would save them Pakistanis ( Joe's or Bacon's ) a long flight back to Blighty to blow us up.

 

nidnoyham

 

As a fellow Brit (and one of Indian extraction), I must assume that your post was tongue in cheek. If not, I do find it somewhat questionable. Let us not forget that the BNP use the term "paki" to encapsulate anyone from South Asia (India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh). Stereotypes are generalisations and, as such, suck. We in Britain have had a highly questionable history of morally reprehensible colonialism, but it is gratifying to recognise that we have grown out of that dark historical phase and the UK is now the most vibrant and liberal bastion of multiculturalism in Europe, and possibly on the planet.

 

To be even-handed, I would add that it is embarrasing for me (as part of the Indian diaspora) that Indians in particular have created a "cheap charlie" vision in the mindsets of the gorgeous Thai girls. But these are money-deficient Indians from India (and not necessarily all of them), and most certainly not the more well-heeled variety of professional Indian (doctors, investment bankers, businessmen etc) from the USA and Europe. I would hope that Thai bar owners have the vision and the human decency to not ban Indians simply because they are Indian. Such practice in the UK would lead to a swathe of lawsuits and the closing down of bars which operate in such a discriminatory manner. Does Thailand not have race discrimination legislation?

 

I have heard very encouraging things about FLB and can only hope that indigenously-owned and run bars learn from the FLB modus operandus.

 

I think you are missing the point about this part of the off topic debate. BNP has nothing to do with Thailand and nothing what so ever to do with the matter under debate, its even further off topic :) Unlike the UK Thailand has very little, if any, acceptance of multiculturalism and comparing stereotyping to that of the BNP just cannot be done I am afraid. That 'party' is one of the few without similar democratic rights of the other political parties within the UK. Whether it be right or wrong.

 

Whether you are an Indian from SE Asia, America, UK, Germany, France, some Thai's will not accept or even try to understand that. Certain gogo's couldn't care less. I would say grow a very thick skin before you go and do not expect ANYTHING like you have in the UK. As stated previously there are absolutely no racial discrimination laws, EVERYONE who is not Thai is discriminated against in some way.

 

To go out, with the attitude you currently display is going to bring you much displeasure and probably result in you losing the plot!

 

As they say in Star Wars, you have much to learn young Jedi!

 

Some pointers:

 

1. Try and understand Thai culture, if you can, or at least some of it.

2. Never question a Thai, their minds work back to front and up side down, you will never figure out some of their methods.

3. Expect discrimination where ever you go, everyone gets it.

4. Remember this is Thailand NOT the UK do not even start to compare the pair, as they are completely and totally at odds with each other.

5. Many go because they like the lack of PC bullshit and the openess. I for one couldn't give a flying fuck if I am discriminated against, I love the freedom given by the openess. A spade is a spade, the way it should be

6. Do not try crying any racial crap as many do in the UK or you will be laughed out of the bar and probably end up in more serious shit shortly afterwards for questioning the Thai's.

 

In all just go with an open mind and enjoy the atmosphere. 95% of bars will not discriminate against you and those that do most will be ok after you explain you come from the UK. But face it, if they didn't want your custom before why bother explaining anything? Just move on to the bar next door and let them watch you spend your baht's :)

 

Oh and one last thing NEVER EVER EVER speak badly of the King, or you will find yourself in the monkey house for a few years :)

 

 

Good post. I suppose I will have to go in with a different mindset and simply get with the drift of things. It will be interesting to live in a soceity devoid of the veil of PC correctness. Perhaps such a society breeds a degree of honesty not visible in Europe.

[indianbrit 0]

Then who ?

 

Would Middle Eastern Muslims be interested in traveling all the way to LOS, when they have oodles of Americans in Iraq/ Afghanistan to bomb ?

 

Mind you, it would save them Pakistanis ( Joe's or Bacon's ) a long flight back to Blighty to blow us up.

 

nidnoyham

 

As a fellow Brit (and one of Indian extraction), I must assume that your post was tongue in cheek. If not, I do find it somewhat questionable. Let us not forget that the BNP use the term "paki" to encapsulate anyone from South Asia (India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh). Stereotypes are generalisations and, as such, suck. We in Britain have had a highly questionable history of morally reprehensible colonialism, but it is gratifying to recognise that we have grown out of that dark historical phase and the UK is now the most vibrant and liberal bastion of multiculturalism in Europe, and possibly on the planet.

 

To be even-handed, I would add that it is embarrasing for me (as part of the Indian diaspora) that Indians in particular have created a "cheap charlie" vision in the mindsets of the gorgeous Thai girls. But these are money-deficient Indians from India (and not necessarily all of them), and most certainly not the more well-heeled variety of professional Indian (doctors, investment bankers, businessmen etc) from the USA and Europe. I would hope that Thai bar owners have the vision and the human decency to not ban Indians simply because they are Indian. Such practice in the UK would lead to a swathe of lawsuits and the closing down of bars which operate in such a discriminatory manner. Does Thailand not have race discrimination legislation?

 

I have heard very encouraging things about FLB and can only hope that indigenously-owned and run bars learn from the FLB modus operandus.

 

 

Yes we do have laws in Britain about who we can like and dislike. As I said previously, had they not been in place this problem would be repeated all over the West.

 

The poor people of India who do this cheap charlie stuff ? Bollocks ! The ones I have seen grabbing girls and assaulting them, were all well dressed young men in Turbans.

 

Yes The British did have a huge Empire and the Indian has done very well out of it. I have seen the way they treated the Africans in Kenya. It made the BNP look like liberals. The word Arrogant falls well short.

My Kenya Asian girlfreind of many yeras ago was scared to death her dad would find out she was seeing an

Englishman. In her own words " He will kill me".

 

I don't like being lectured to, by someone from the ' victim status' of society. I live in an area where the Indians took over the Council, running it to suit their mates and for a while, the personnel department of B.A. There they were disposing of non Indian applications. 10 years ago my mate, a Rolls Royce Engineer, made the remark that all new secretaries in his department were Indian.

 

Don't give me the poor, down trodden angle.

 

Recent reports suggest that Britain's feel less secure in their own country than ever before.

 

Before you come out with the Racist bit, my Thai lady is making tea and an Iraqi is having a chat in my garden with my son. ( and playing with Herbert my dog )

 

Unfortunately, there are too many narrow-minded racist Indians.

[indianbrit 0]

 

We in Britain have had a highly questionable history of morally reprehensible colonialism, but it is gratifying to recognise that we have grown out of that dark historical phase and the UK is now the most vibrant and liberal bastion of multiculturalism in Europe, and possibly on the planet.

 

It wasn't morally reprehensible colonialism. All we were trying to do was instill a vibrant and liberal bastion of multiculturism but the natives weren't overly keen on that happening.

 

These days we may well have a case of reverse colonialism, at least in economic terms

 

India is Britains largest donator of foreign direct investment and is on a trajectory to become only second in global economic clout to China by 2050.

[indianbrit 0]

And you forgot to mention the British shop keepers driven out of business because they could nor import slave labour to work in the corner shops dressed up as family members from the sub continent.

 

You just gotta love those extended families, eh ?

[indianbrit 0]

And you forgot to mention the British shop keepers driven out of business because they could nor import slave labour to work in the corner shops dressed up as family members from the sub continent.

 

I would add that British shop keepers are not in fact being driven out of business.

 

All that is happening is that non-savvy British shopkeepers are being driven out of business by more savvy British shopkeepers -- albeit with a bit of help from a smattering of "slaves" (a.k.a. extended family), as you put it.

[indianbrit 0]

What we have is replacement and not reduction, in technical terms. All parties concerned are indeed British (give or take a handful of cheap imported extended family).

[bibzo 7]

A dog can be borne in a stable, this will not make it a horse!

[jacko 8,578]

Good post. I suppose I will have to go in with a different mindset and simply get with the drift of things. It will be interesting to live in a soceity devoid of the veil of PC correctness. Perhaps such a society breeds a degree of honesty not visible in Europe.

Thick skinned, intelligent and eloquent. You will be okay. Thailand is a free society, and that includes letting them make their own mind up about foreigners. It also allows them to behave accordingly without fear.

Many laws protect the indigenous population.

Thai people people look to family first, other Thais second and have lots of opinions down from there.

Try to change those opinions.

But they love money.... know that and use it.

I have to go back to the UK soon (white and UK born), yet I feel more discriminated against there.

As someone posted above, I can't even open a taxi company without being victimised and attacked in the UK.

 

I get the impression you come from a privelidged section of society in the UK.

Edited April 16, 2009 by jacko

[indianbrit 0]

Thick skinned, intelligent and eloquent. You will be okay. Thailand is a free society, and that includes letting them make their own mind up about foreigners. It also allows them to behave accordingly without fear.

Many laws protect the indigenous population.

Thai people people look to family first, other Thais second and have lots of opinions down from there.

Try to change them.

But they love money.... know that and use it.

I have to go back to the UK soon (white and UK born), yet I feel more discriminated against there.

As someone posted above, I can't even open a taxi company without being victimised and attacked in the UK.

 

I get the impression you come from a privelidged section of society in the UK.

 

Well, I am well versed in handling the poverty and corruption of India, so I would hope Thailand and an initially abrasive bunch of expats would be manageable. I am very grateful for the insights on the Thai psyche. Once one understands how it works, one is able to optimise a strategy to exploit it.

 

In terms of my background, I am actually merely a middle class Londoner educated at a state school, albeit an Oxbridge educated one. In other words, I am a beneficiary of British meritocracy.

 

As regards those dastardly (primarily Pakistani) taxi companies, what about getting the police and/or trading standards involved ? You know you can support on the Indians in such an endeavour

[indianbrit 0]

typo:

"...rely on the support of..."

[indianbrit 0]

A dog can be borne in a stable, this will not make it a horse!

 

So true... which is precisely why the BNP and their ilk are on a hiding to nothing

[Spock 4]

In the end everybody discriminate to some extent. Even Indians, take a look at their Hindu caste system.

[indianbrit 0]

In the end everybody discriminate to some extent. Even Indians, take a look at their Hindu caste system.

 

Indeed.

 

The Hindu caste system is abhorrent. Thankfully, its vestiges are limited and controlled in modern, cosmopolitan India. But the caste system is alive and kicking in the rural areas.

 

Some Indian scum are amongst the most racist subhumans on the planet. My family is very liberal, and I can pretty much date white girls, yellow girls and martians. But in many Indian families, any mention of a non-Hindu girl brings screams of both derision and anger from the direct and extended family, And woe betide any progressive and liberal Hindu who ventures home with a black partner or, even worse, a Muslim !!

[chrisbrewer 0]

So true... which is precisely why the BNP and their ilk are on a hiding to nothing

 

 

Just watch their results in the Euro elections my friend.