Ajicey125

I am an American, and live in New York City, where entire industries can and do revolve around the expectation of gratuity. I find it an interesting topic not only when discussing how tips are handled abroad, but I find it amazing that from state to state within my own country the scales tend to ebb and flow according to regional and cultural norms. Waiters and waitresses are the easiest example. Here in New York it is true that the employees receive a pittance of an hourly wage, if they receive one at all. The bigger restaurants and chains run serious risks of being audited by the IRS (tax collectors) should they not offer at least a meager payroll mainly because of the government expecting to get their slice. Smaller outfits, like privately owned pubs and family owned restaurants (mostly 'mom and pop' joints) can get away with not paying any wage at all, and the "employee" lives on any tips generated. Most people who were born and raised in this part of the country are aware of this situation so tips for waiters and waitresses tend to be a bit on the higher side compared to the rest of the country. The wait staff at these places are also expected to tip out any bartenders, bus-boys and runners that helped them on their shift... typically something to the tune of 10%-20% of their gross for the evening. The main reason this is accepted is due to the large amount generated in tips. A standard tip for a server in these parts is about 15%, and the cost to go out and eat is probably double in NYC than it is in most places in the country if not the western world. So it is one of the few professions that exist (in a country that has shipped 90% of it's blue collar work overseas) wherein a non-educated hard working individual can make enough money support themselves and their family. I remember when I was a child and being taught how to tip I was told to simply double the sales tax on the meal and you've got your tip. Sales tax at the time was 8.25% (I couldn't tell you what it is now, but I doubt it has changed much). Not leaving a tip is viewed as being incredibly tacky and uncouth. And I warn any tourists that head out this way to steer clear of returning to any establishment where no gratuity was offered as you will experience the 'not so nice' side of New Yorkers very quickly. I have had the pleasure of living in California where business owners are mandated by state law to provide a minimum wage. As a result the tipping tends to be a bit lower than it is in the northeast. I have also spent a considerable amount of time in the south (think Tennessee, Alabama, etc.) and across a few states in the Midwest (mostly Minnesota). In these other regions nothing compares to the amount we tip up here, but that is mainly due to the drastic difference in costs. Additionally, in these other regions you seldom see much tipping in the way of taxi or livery drivers unless you're within a major city (Chicago, San Fran, DC). In New York there are hundreds of thousands of cabs, car services, limo services, and so on that all have to adhere to special rules depending on the type of service they're providing and within which region/district/borough of the city they are allowed to operate within. Cab rides in the city are pretty cheap in the grand scheme of things (albeit still viewed as a luxury when compared to riding subways, buses, trains, ferries, so on, so forth). If you're traveling within city limits, more often than not you're being charged a metered rate which is very reasonable. There are additional fees for certain times of day, and additional passengers, but due to the massive supply the rates are kept relatively affordable. I could be wrong, but I am almost certain that the city government imposes some sort of cap on what the cabs can charge. Granted there are a number of factors that would skew my over-generalizations (tolls, heavy traffic, vomiting in the car, etc.). I personally tend to tip a bit on the higher side for good cab service. Anyone who knows there way around the city is keen to when a cabbie is trying to take an extended route or attempting to pull a stunt. I appreciate when a driver takes a bit of pride in being able to get me where I'm going in a safe and efficient manner. As long as the cabbie follows what I like to call the "human decency" factor I'll tip up to 30% for a ride. Note, however, that when I bounce around town my cab ride is seldom over 7$. It's always just easier for me to round up to a nice even number, and that extra dollar that I would have kept means a hell of a lot less to me than it does to the cabbie. Again, regional factors are at play here because it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to be allowed to own and operate a cab in new york city. Because of this you seldom encounter many owner-operators. Most cab drivers are living off of their tips while the owner of the taxi is collecting the lion's share of the fares. In other parts of the country these car services are seen as a major luxury and the prices are outrageous compared to what I am used to up here. But, that being said, in these other parts one could not possibly live without owning an automobile the way I do. So it is all relative. Barber shops, any sort of concierge or delivery service (provided I have the option of picking up said items myself), good lap dances, door men at selective clubs and nightlife spots, musicians playing at places that don't charge an entrance fee, tour guides, catering companies... the list could go on. So much of New York revolves around the service industry, and convenience is a tangible widget in these parts that a the tip has become more of an obligation than an expectation. Once again, if you come to these parts be forewarned that if you don't tip expect to be treated accordingly. With all that being said, it is difficult for me to visit a place like LOS and forgo this practice which has been bred into me since birth. Combine that with the glaring cost differential, and the constant over-consumption of alcohol and I tend to go a bit overboard when I'm a 2 week millionaire. I've never rang the bell, but whenever I check-bin I immediately calculate and additional 20% into the total as a matter of habit. Last year was my first trip, and it took a while before a bar girl stopped me and took back a bunch of money from the tab and put it in my pocket. Prior to that particular situation I never thought twice about tipping. But ever since, I made a point of giving the check and the 1000 baht note to the girl and had her pay the bill just so I could catch a glimpse of the "norm". To my surprise, the tips were usually the same regardless of the total. I was able to find a couple of thais during that trip that were able to explain a bit. One in particular, a relatively young little stunner (probably 30, but looked like she was 23), who was running a bar up in Chiang Mai. She was married to some German guy who had since retired to Thailand and decided to own a bunch of bars but not work in them. She said that in most cases that any tip is greatly appreciated regardless of the amount so if I'm doing it to impress someone I'm just wasting my time, and baht. Being that I was on holiday, and the type of tourist that I am, she said that it has become normal amongst the thais in the service industry to expect tips from the farang hordes. However, there are situations in which a tip could be viewed as being rude and/or condescending. According to her it makes us appear as if we think we are 'better' than the person we are giving the tip to, and that the person that they work for is not doing enough to provide for their needs. This was a bit of a shock to me, and I wish I had less whiskey in me that night as it is definitely a topic that I would have enjoyed expounding upon. If anyone can provide any sort of insights, or examples as to when this particular situation may prove to be true, please enlighten me. This same girl went on to talk about how most of the girls that work for her, and the ones that she knew to come from the country seldom consider putting together any sort of savings as well. She said that for the most part the bulk of the money the girls receive goes back home. But anything left over that is not spent on providing the bare necessities is spent as soon as it is made in a number of different ways.... but I digress. I do find it fascinating. I am curious as to how others handle tipping in their respective countries, and if they modify their spending habits when on holiday in Thailand. Especially places like Europe and Australia (mainly because now that I have been to LOS, I won't waste my money going on vacation anywhere else, so don't expect to see me in your home town any time soon). Is there a "norm" to speak of in Thailand? I have to imagine that Patts is a universe unto itself in comparison to most of the country. Wheels up in 3 days. Anyone who wants to continue this conversation over a couple of Heineken hit me up. I definitely need to make more connections while I'm out there this time around. Please bear in mind that my particular opinion on the matter is not necessarily reflective of the views of all yanks. There are entire groups of people within our country that do not subscribe to the tipping paradigm as I see it. Someone else on this thread mentioned that when a waiter hears a European accent they cringe. It's not just the tourists. Ask any waiter that's been in the game a while and I'm sure they'll have a laundry list of stereotypes to ramble off. I doubt many would disagree with me that Americans probably take it to a whole different level when it comes to tipping when compared to the rest of the world. I just know that if I go out and someone is providing a service or convenience that I would otherwise be able to provide for myself through some other means I am going to tip. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've chosen not to tip. Poor service typically results in a tip in the 10% - 15% range. Good service always gets 20%. I will admit that I suffer from the same affliction stateside as I do when overseas... If I'm really enjoying myself (see whiskey) and the establishment is bending over backwards for me I've been known to tip anywhere from 30% to 150%. But that's just me. I'm young with next to no responsibilities and enjoy spending my money as opposed to watching it drop in value every day sitting underneath a mattress somewhere. That and my vacation only lasts about two weeks. I cannot live like a rockstar in my city without running the risk of being evicted for failure to pay rent. Even then I doubt it would be worth it because you would need a couple million dollars to party in NYC the way we do in LOS. Hopefully I haven't pissed anyone off with any of my commentary... but we new yorkers tend to do it without even knowing. Apologies in advance to the sensitive ones. -=UG=-

If you don't mind hanging out with a couple of drunken degenerate yankees... me and a friend of mine are going wheels up Jan 27th. We're flying out from new york so it'll be a solid day and half later when we actually touch down in LOS. If everything goes right we'll be getting to our room around 2am, but we're gonna make a b-line for the discos to catch some late night action immediately (shouldn't be an issue with the 12 hour time difference). Either PM me, or UnGnone82. This is our second trip, so we're less likely to make the newbie mistakes we made last year... but then again we tend throw our money around back here in farangland anyway. Either way, we work hard so we can play harder. And it doesn't come any harder than it does in Patts. cheers!