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==== if u r married, u r free to travel. y not just move yourself off shore, and don't go back or tell anybody where u r. married men are free to travel and disappear. u can also apply for divorce from other countries, have her served in the usa, make declarations that she can't be found, have the divorce ratified in a foreign country and it should be recognized as valid in the usa.

======= I am lately finding many guys are saying they don't tip, and tip at the most 10 or 15 baht. Some of the gals are asking for tips, and times are getting tough, but the girls want to maximize income. When the province learns that guys are no longer rushing to the internet, for sites like ThaiLoveLinks, where one girl showed me there are like 130 girl members for 900 guy members, and very few attractive girls, ... how can that possibly continue? When I am in the province, in the villages, there are guys EVERYWHERE looking for decent, attractive women, marriageable women. One bar I go to, in Udon, it's an upscale place, has a waitress, who got married, only for her husband to learn a few days later, she had 2 other husbands, and multiple boyfriends. Girls consider marriage, dating, and sweeting as a job, more than as a heart. I mean, how many times have u met a sweet and lovable huggable in a club, only to discover on the baht taxi that she is neither sweet nor huggable? She let's her hair down, and is just a normal girl. Some of the girls are purely confused. Geesh, how scarey it must be for an 18 or 19 year old girl to have parents who call her for massive sums of money on a regular basis. She finds her self-worth in obliging horrendous demands upon her in the prime of her life. Yes, it would be better for the system to revert back to yester-year with young brides (Mary was only 13 when she had Jesus), and allow men to marry women younger, and to have some say in protecting, nurturing, and safeguarding them from some of the errors of rebellious youth. But NGO's have come in and altered the methods by which millenia old practices are continued. People alter apparent behaviors for money, but in reality, find ways to remain as they have always been, behind the scrutiny of the narcistic beneficent. I don't know where we are going, but I am not sure anybody wants to be going there. This is so true in every bar. Customers and patrons should never have dissonance after leaving a bar. I would suggest that it is best that the situation teach a new attitude and concept to the gals working. It would appear that as the gals are learning how to get more faster, the guys are learning how to drink their drinks longer, and resist pressure to buy drinks for ladies and tips for everyone. Throwing money is always silly. Americans don't talk about money, unless they don't have any, and girls want to find a rich American by trying to get him to show money or talk about money. Guys who have money, will rarely show anybody by throwing it around in public. It is going to be very interesting to see the mutation cycle of Thailand and Tourism. I would suspect that within a decade, Pattaya will be high ticket only, and the poor will be camping outside the walls.

===== mine was chinese. in 15 states of the USA, anxiety is a physical disability. if u r in one of those states, u should declare a serious anxiety breakdown as the result of some genuine source making u a victim. this will put u under the ada act, and will give u some protection. if that is not to your liking, u gotta pay. u goofed. another option of course is to do as u say, get her out of the usa on a nice holiday, like central america, or something like this, and get a divorce there. once u have a declared divorce, it will probably be honored in the usa, and u can part ways in the other country. however, u still have 10 years of liability for her, including her attorney fees to mess with u. perhaps retire in central america is a better idea, with a documented anxiety disability which requires u to have no stress and a good climate because of the pollutants in cities where u may now live. with this condition, u can be out of the states a lot, and would have to be recalled, to answer to charges she would have to file in the usa, while she left the usa of her own accord with you, and where she was divorced in another country ingood faith. at this time, u were shown to have an anxiety disability which returning to your prior life in the usa would trigger, and therefore for all concerned, and your physical, not mental, disability, u must remain in a more suitable climate. but regardless of what u do, your life as u knew is over. if u stay in the usa, it's totally over. hopefully your trust was established prior to the marriage and everything u owned, own, and will own is automatically a part of the trust, and she is not part of the trust?

If you have not read "Thailand Fever" you probably should buy the book. The book is written by an Aussie (I think) and a Thai woman. The left side of the book is in English, the right side is in Thai. If memory serves me correctly, the cost is about 500 baht. he, she, and they talk about viewing many critical elements of thai/non-thai relationships from western and thai perspectives. while i am not an aussie, and don't agree that american men are precisely the same, as a group, like aussie men, as a group, I do believe the book is quite good,and thought provoking.

====== after having conflict with "What's Up Agogo" how long I have to wait before I go back? I am just getting so sensitive these days to people thinking i go to bars to buy ladies drinks! I never do that, go for barfines, and if i am going to bf a girl, long time, i am more than happy to buy her a drink. Here is mom below: Mom here is begging for money This is Kontea, she loved me before she and Mom argued over who got me, and I think Mom won, because Kontea stopped talking to me, and she works with Mom. and, yes, I was taking them both out. But what would happen was that Kontea would be there, and mom would come to see if i was with Kontea. Then, nobody would answer the door, so mom would come all night, and early in the morning. One day i was sneaking off to a beach resort, and when I woke up, there was Mom sitting in my living room all packed and ready to go. I don't even know how she knew. Then after we got back, I went back with Kontea, but somehow, mom "fixed it." Mom and Kontea make me happy. But alas, neither are in Pats Oh, Below is "Pat" (Warapat). Many of you have asked what I am looking for. This is my last girlfriend I loved sooooooooo much! We broke up about 3 years ago. We fought over Kaan Maak Man, did I love this woman ! I have been back to CM several times to try and find her again, but alas, she has disappeared. oh, yeah, and this one is not in pats either, but china : Alas so many stories, but this year in pats, i seem to be batting zero.

==== i just think the concept of long time and short time should be clear. in all the bars. Will she go long time or not should be very clear. all to often the first thing u hear is "do u want to buy her a drink," and i never go to a bar to buy drinks, i always go to barfine. re: the guy who suggested I go to another place to monger. This is silly. i am part of braniff's original development team of 1978 in thailand. geesh, i have here for 30 years, almost, and this year is not going well. it's not that i can't get a girl, it's that quality i want, all wants short time. what happened with that waitress, heck, i don't know !! does pattaya have bad luck streaks too for some of us? I mean, girls hit on me all night, not in NLD1, no girls even talk to me in there, but the rest of the bars they do, but geesh, ......... i am going to get drunk tonight. i have stress lately. This is mom, she loves me a lot. i am alone right now, it's 4:15 am, i think i will wake her up and call her. she is not in pats.

If u r going to Udon and have not been there before I recommend you stay at one of two places: a) silver reef hotel by the bus station www.silverreefudon.com you can walk to from either the train station or the bus station, it is located behind the bus station. if u take a bus, just turn around and stay there. the owner and his wife are there, his name is tony (singaporean) and is wife Tiffany is thai chinese sing canadian. She speaks english, thai, and everything else. Tony speaks only english. Udon Thai House (Thomas Guest House) which is by big C and a little out of town. UTH is very nice. http://www.udonthaihouse.com/ (the owner, Thomas, a German, will pick u up for free) As far as transportation: Take the local bus here to the Savarnabumi airport bus terminal for 107 baht. Take a train to bkk, or a bus to Khon Kaen. In Khon Kaen, stay at biggie biggoe, it is 500 baht a night if u stay 3 nights u get a discount, if u ask. they don't speak english. It is right on the lake, and very nice and quiet. It is the opposite end as the congested town. From KK, take a train to udon thani and then to nong kai. You should enjoy this more. I will post where u want to go in nong kai for you (a photo) .. also, when u get off of the train in Udon there are some good buffets along the main road by the night market (preecha market). this sala keo kou is a definite must see in nong kai. it will knock your socks off. ok, here are two fotos for u. Also, if u choose to NOT go that direction, try going to Ubon Ratchathanee. If u go there, stay at "WRONGWAY Cafe" 086-868-6661 (ting, she speaks english. her husband is richard, he is n. american something) If you go here to Ubon for your visa, do NOT miss a bar called "Country Club" . it will knock your socks off. At Wrong Way you will be totally connected to everything and everybody. It costs 350 baht a night and is quite nice. They will connect u up with a tour guide whose english is great too. Take the train to Ubon too. If u go to Ubon, Take a bus trip to Khemmerat, which is bus only and arduous, but very beautiful. there are no hotels in the city. but i did find a decent one on the river, can't remember the name though. NOBODY speaks english, except you. They don't speak thai either. Khemmerat will be an adventure. oh, i forgot .. u can take a train to udon too. take trains, they r nice. second class is good. but generally have to be reserved days in advance. both Udon Thai House and Silver reef have wireless internet for free, and u can of course pay if u don't have your lap top. Oh, one more thing, if u r into clothes, go to Baan Nga Kaa, about 20 miles from Udon Thani, and there u can get some really marvelous silks and cottons which are hand made. Unlike most of thailand the silks are very bright and vibrant colors. Tailor made clothes are better quality than my chiang mai tailors .. and I can't even find a decent tailor in Pattaya. Hope this helps. u can copy this sala keu kao foot name i posted so u can go here. really, don't miss this one, this is terrific. I think it was free admission too. Oh, and the museum ... at sala keu kao, don't miss that after u walk the grounds. plan on spending an entire day. The museum has the ancient drums of the nongkai and vientiene kingdom when united, thailand has 2, and laos has 1. also u can see the ancient tusks of the war elephants and gawk at how enormous these ancient elephants were. okay, hope this helps your planning. the statue is also sala keo kou, so u have an idea why i am sending u there.

------ Dave: Please tell steve this !!! I just told him this very thing tonight. Maybe if you tell him yourself, he will let it sink in, and actually implement the color coding. this particular gal, DID barfine long long time. But wanted to go to karaoke then go home later. she wanted to get a free "drunk" from me, and bail. she slept, fully clothed, until 4:30 am on my couch. the mamason asked for a drink for herself before the girl left because she guaranteed she knew the girl for a long time, and me as well, and she was a sweet girl who wanted a relationship. The girl said she didn't want to work on walking street, and went with me because she wants a boyfriend to get her off of walking street. she also said she left her id in another country. I offered to go home to get her id, where her mom lives, but she said it was "in my country." (she speaks english fine). also, the mamason was clear to me the girl understood after 11 am the next day, and the mamason was sooooooo clear, but last night she told steve that the girl only wanted short time. But I told the mamason infront of shane, nights before, I ONLY go long time, no short time. Actually, of ALL the guys I talk to, most want nothing to do with short time girls, or short time experiences. we only want girls who want relationships ... the mamason asks for drinks because she says she is helping you. one night the mamason sat at the table and asked for a drink. I asked if she would sit and talk with me and help me find a girl, she said she would. as soon as she got her drink, she got up and said she had to walk around. she moved to another seat. Now, remember, 100 baht is about 6 hours salary for a thai. so if we give her a 100 baht drink for her help, we should get a suitable amount of service for buying her the drink. We are in fact employing her. we don't go to bars to get drunk, ulcers, or lose brain cells. We go because we like girls and want to meet one or two. But this mamason just leaves the customers sitting alone! Even when the manager asks her to help, she just went and sat in the corner and never returned! This type of customer service is what will kill any business. Its not shane, or justin, or steve .. they are really great guys, of the highest calibre. But it is the staff that interract with customers who alienate customers. The original living dolls is suffering because of top level management. N. L D # 1 is well managed at the top, but the girls and momasons are indifferent to the customers, and just plain rude. The girl in this post is a waitress, and 26 years old, so she should have a clue. A few nights ago I put B20 on the stage behind dancer #48. She just ignored me. she wouldn't even look at me! so i thought if i put money on the stage she would smile. The girl behind her picked it up and handed it to her, but she ignored the girl, later the 20 baht fell to the floor under feet again, and again she ignored the 20 baht and me. Then the girl behind her picked it up, at her request, and handed it to the service people as a TIP! Totally insulting me. When Shane querried about this event, #48 and the staff had no idea what he was talking about. Again, insulting me. Thai women can NOT attack the grengjai of a man. It just cannot be. Cliff

======= if this is her, she doesn't even have ID, she left it in her country. actually, the mamason is not exactly truth telling either. also, even with steve at my seat, and asking the mamason to help me meet a girl, not a single girl came to talk to us for over an hour. shane, u need to raise your voice in your meeting.

========== elite, i posted one place and somebody told me to post in it's own thread, and as for a third post, .. that is due to old age (which is a perfectly good excuse you young guys will use some day). WE ARE TALKING ABOUT "WHAT'S UP A-GO-GO ON SOI 15 BY ANGELWITCH" I AM GOING TO START TAKING FOTOS. I BOUGHT A CELL FONE SO I CAN TAKE FOTOS, BUT I AM AN OLD MAN, AND FORGET I HAVE THE CELL FONE.

==== I was in their last week, I didn't see any cute, or new girls. when did u get some? I am always looking for adorable new girls, no babies, long time bar fines, no tatoos or fat. Do you have any like this? When did you get them?

1. Regarding Americans. I have Thai ID, and I carry my Thai ID. No reason to let anybody know I am an american. BUT, I AM retired, and yes, this devaluation is painful. 2. I got ripped off last night at the wet and wild bar What's Up Agogo, and would like to tell the entire world, that my favorite bar before yesterday is now on my unfavorite bar list. Wish Alan could teach that BAR !! Here is what happened: I went in and was enjoying myself. The mamason came over and told me she had a new girl as i was her good friend. she brought the girl over and sat her down. I will NOT do short time, even if the girl pays ME, i won't do short time. And, if i hear the words short time, I think "AIDS FACTORY" and won't go any further. The mamason knows this, and she brought this girl. She asked me to buy her a drink, so I said "okay." then when the mamason left, 2 drinks came for this girl, and I asked her if she was going with me and she asked for SHORT TIME! I told her we were finished now, and went to pay my bill, and i was charged for 2 drinks for her and one for me. so, i paid one for me and one for her. then i went out the door peacefully but irked. I had been enjoying myself before this mamason did this crap. Then the doorman from WET AND WILDWhat's Up Agogo, DOWN BY ANGELWITCH, came down the street and actually HIT ME, and told me to go back to the bar to talk to the mamason, i didn't pay enough. Then I told the mamason that she had asked me as her good friend to buy this girl a drink, so I paid for it and gave actually a 10 baht tip, I don't know why. Then the mamason argued and the man that hit me kept yelling. I told them to get the police, i would wait. Then the mamason said "okay" and I walked away, never again to go to that bar. I loved this bar before, and now i can't go back, which makes me really sad. This mamason should be fired, this girl sent packing, and this door man arrested for assault. All in all, this is why i am writing at 4:50 am. I would like to go to Alan's party tonight, and would love to leave early with 2 super adorable, young, long time girls for 1000 baht all night, but if not possible, i will pay more, i just really really really need a good night tonight. Please boycott this wet and wild barWhat's Up Agogo, or do something, to help me protest their abuse please. I loved this bar. In thai culture, they can katote, but it will cost them something. Apparently assaulting customers for not paying for drinks they don't order is a new business technique. Edited by MM: Giving the incorrect bar name consistently.

New Living Dolls 1: I want to say I had the pleasure of meeting Shane and his son, whom are really terrific guys. Opening night was well attended and hosted. I DO NOT go short time! That night all of the cute girls wanted to go short time so I didn't barfine, except one, who said she would go long time. Then, as soon as she got back to the hotel, she said she wanted SHORT TIME, and had changed her mind, but needed the money for her teeth. I told her I DO NOT DO SHORT TIME, and she could go back to the bar. When I got to the bar and was waiting to get my barfine back, she walked in and gave me 400 baht. However, NOW, when I go the bar, no girls will talk to me. Today, I actually gave # 48 or 49, I forget, a 20 baht tip, and she would neither look at me nor pick it up, the girl behind her picked it up and gave it to the waitress as a tip. The other day, the mamason asked us to buy her a drink, so I did, and after sipping, excused herself saying she had to walk around then went to a seat and stayed there. But did nothing to earn the drink. Since I live in the Province most of the time, let me tell you guys the Thai culture: IN the province they have clubs that make Pattaya look sick, and the girls are MUCH better looking and far far more talented. Now in these clubs and bars, you purchase a bottle, say Piper, and you pay B335 baht, or B400 for Dewar. Then you buy a bucket of ice for 30 baht, and 2 cokes or sprites for 30 baht each, and 2 soda waters for 30 baht each. If you and your friends don't finish the bottle of whiskey, you leave it there at the bar, with your name on it, for next time and u just buy ice and pop to go with it. So an entire night with a lot people will cost you about 500 baht, split many ways. Return visits are very cheap, as the bottle of whiskey is yours to finish later. Tipping is not really thai culture, although asking for a discount IS thai culture. Some places you would enjoy are: Dwang Dang in Udon Thani and Country Club in Ubon Ratchathanee. Country Club will blow your socks off! Now, I have sent Shane an email, because I don't know how to deal with the fact that when I go into his bar, i sit alone. I am a likeable guy. But the girls don't even talk to me. It's a bummer. I had emailed shane telling him i was looking for an adorable young gal, no babies, no tattoes and no body jewelry before the party. I am actually looking for a g/f .. type if i can find her. But to go to the bar and be insulted and ignored is sort of a bummer. Management has great personalities, but something is not going well in New Living Dolls 1, the girls are just into themselves. It's a bummer, because Shane is giving 30 baht drinks, and that includes orange juice, 400 baht bar fines, etc. The only problem is the girls are short time girls, and really rude and stand-offish. Sort of like a narcistic club i guess. So all in all, I have to say the management is excellent, promotions are great, but unfortunately he doesn't have any girls who associate with customers except for short time boom boom. Which I find to be unpalatable. This is not the only bar like this, a smiliar thing happened in another bar. There seems to be an attitude of the girls now to get a lot of money fast. I do have one girl in a bar that is with me a lot, and since she is too old and has a kid, she helps me look for a young woman I am interested in, but she is not my g/f or my wife. Anyway, this is my take on things. I don't think Shane will be successful unless he fires his staff and hires some girls who like men.

I recommend u try the pinewood residence on second road, between soi 5 and 6 (other side) i like it a lot

this video doesn't work, the rest of them do, and i really enjoy watching them. i hope we can have some more. Shilo & Cowboy 100th (2004) <<----------- doesn't work at either size ...

This looks exactly like what i am looking for. i am trying to decide now if i should get a condo in cm or pattaya. and which place should i go to first. this flb bar is so kind and professional, i'd love to have a party just because of how kind you guys are .. i really want to have some top shelf gals for the party and it's something i am thinking a LOT about. i know i sound like a stick in the mud to me too, but i seem to be serious about this. i don't know what quality of gals are available, or how to do what i want to do, as i have never done this before, i just want to do it for the first time ever.

i was told that foreigners can rent for 3 consecutive 30 year increments. not true?

MONTRI HOTEL 2-6 Ratchadamneon Rd. A.Muang Chiangmai 50200 Tel. 66 53 - 211069-70, 418 480 Fax.217 416

one thing i did learn was that last year, i stayed out of the usa for 10 months. That means my state tax was 2/12, which was zero. So, I DID save quite a lot on state taxes. I am only in the USA 2-3 months these days, and so when I am here, i am depressed, and when I am not here, i am happy. My biggest problem is i lose a lot weight when not here, and gain it back when in the states, so i need to go again. but, before i do, i am taking an alaska cruise, which should help my weight problem a lot.