Thai non stop LAX-BKK

[BigDUSA 71]

Thai has announced new non stop service from LAX to BKK. Service to start late this year.

[The Mook 105]

This article from The Nation:

 

THAI offers new Bangkok-New York flight Published on Apr 22 , 2005

 

Thai Airways International Plc has introduced a new Bangkok-New York flight trip, the shortest trip time of only 16.50 hours.

 

According to Kanok Apiradee, President of THAI, the company will launch the inbound and outbound flight between Bangkok and New York by new 340-500 Airbus planes this May 1.

 

There will be six flights per week, except on Monday, on the new route. The passenger cabin of the plane has a new interior design and decoration and is equipped with visual and audio appliances for entertainment.

 

THAI expects the number of tourist arrivals from the US will increase to 650,000 from 450,000 per year, Kanok said.

 

The airline is confident the Bangkok-New York flight will attract passengers, especially from Bangkok-Hanoi-Hochimin and other cities due to the shortest trip time of all the available flights in this region, Kanok added.

 

The number of passengers is projected to be about 70 per cent each flight in the first operation year and should rise to 75-80 per cent in the second year.

[slick 0]

Thai has announced new non stop service from LAX to BKK. Service to start late this year.

I'm still waiting for the SFO-BKK non-stop flight!

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Thai has announced new non stop service from LAX to BKK. Service to start late this year.

BigD,

 

Have you got a link to the LAX-BKK info?

 

Tom

[BigDUSA 71]

Either Bangkok Post or Thai website under press releases.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Either Bangkok Post or Thai website under press releases.

BigD,

 

Sorry, I can't seem to find it - the latest press release I get up was in April for the official announcement of the JFK service.

 

I'm interested to try and work out what European destinations may get the A340-600 to see if it is worth routing from Manchester on a codeshare e.g. through Zurich. It would be worth knowing if the non-stop flights to LAX are replacing, or are in addition to, the current schedule.

 

If you have the URL of the announcement it would be helpful.

 

Tom

[BigDUSA 71]

You will have to check Bangkok Post archives for this info.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

You will have to check Bangkok Post archives for this info.

BigD,

 

Yep, I can find plenty speculation of what will happen with the third A340-500 when it arrives in the autumn but no announcement from Thai.

 

I did read that Thai expects to lose big bucks on the New York route over the first three years and that they were going to re-assess the route after three months ........ a Thai scenario familiar to many Europeans over the years.

 

Tom

[sommy 0]

i suspect there is no hope but i wish thai airways would add a toronto to bkk flight but i dont think there are enough people flying out of canada to bangkok to warrant it but even if they did a once a week deal i would be really happy.

[echster 1]

Thai has announced new non stop service from LAX to BKK. Service to start late this year.

Well, I've waited and waited for any official word from TG re: non-stop flights LAX-BKK-LAX. I've searched the Post and Nation, as well as TG's website to no avail. I've said all that to add FINALLY....well, at least a definite maybe!

 

Nothing is official and I can't confirm the info so chalk it up as speculation or downright conjecture. However, a TG employee has stated the nonstop flights LAX-BKK-LAX have been added to the company's system, but not to the reservation systems.

 

TG will still fly LAX-Japan-BKK and return 4 days a week. The other 3 days will be LAX-BKK-LAX nonstop on the new.....A340-600 (not the A340-500). New planes, new cabins, new configurations. Seating is rumored to be the same as the A345 and configured 8 First Class, an astounding 60 Business Class (Royal Silk), and 199 Coach. FWIW, I don't know the breakdown of the 4 days vs. 3 days yet.

 

Flights will commence with the next TG schedule change....around 29 October 2005.

Edited June 8, 2005 by echster

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Well, I've waited and waited for any official word from TG re: non-stop flights LAX-BKK-LAX. I've searched the Post and Nation, as well as TG's website to no avail. I've said all that to add FINALLY....well, at least a definite maybe!

echster,

 

I know the feeling!

 

As you know, Thai has always had the A340-600 earmarked for the European secondary market (Milan, Zurich etc), Auckland and Japan to free up the 747s and MD11s for new routes. The A340-500s have always been earmarked for the North American market. I have assumed that the delivery of the two remaining A340-500s in the autumn would be used to increase JFK to a daily service and add 3 x weekly non-stops to LAX. If, as this guy claims, LAX is to be served by A340-600, where are the -500s going to?

 

Tom

[echster 1]

echster,

 

I know the feeling!

 

As you know, Thai has always had the A340-600 earmarked for the European secondary market (Milan, Zurich etc), Auckland and Japan to free up the 747s and MD11s for new routes. The A340-500s have always been earmarked for the North American market. I have assumed that the delivery of the two remaining A340-500s in the autumn would be used to increase JFK to a daily service and add 3 x weekly non-stops to LAX. If, as this guy claims, LAX is to be served by A340-600, where are the -500s going to?

 

Tom

Well, TG only ordered 4 x A345s. They have 2 presently and take delivery of their 3rd soon. That 3rd A345 is going to bump the JFK-BKK-JFK to 7 days a week service. They don't receive their 4th until 2006.

 

TG ordered 6 x A346s. They're for the routes you've mentioned. It's my guess that's why the LAX-BKK-LAX route nonstop is only 3 days a week instead of more. Two side notes: the A345 is listed as a back-up on this route in case the A346 can't go and there are no plans to include SFO or ORD anytime soon.....maybe around the summer of 2006.

 

Here's a tentative schedule for anyone interested in flying the new TG aircraft from LAX....to begin on or about 29 October 2005:

 

Days 1, 4, 6 (usually indicates Monday, Thursday, Saturday)

 

BKK-LAX

Depart BKK at 2030

Arrive LAX at 2010

Time of flight is 14:40

 

LAX-BKK

Depart LAX at 2230

Arrive BKK at 0701

Time of flight is 17:31

 

This schedule works out wonderfully for me! Look at the arrival time at BKK...7 AM!

 

Days 2, 3, 5, 7 (usually indicates Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday)

 

These days will be BKK-KIX-LAX-KIX-BKK on a B744 at the same scheduled times as now.

 

One last note for aviation junkies like myself: TG will start to take delivery of the B772ER in 2006. They've ordered 6 to be delivered from 2006-2008.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

echster,

 

Thai's schedule has now been updated and shows the BKK-LAX non-stop flights to be operated using A345s. The flight time on the return leg is 20 mins longer than the JFK route (17:31 v 17:10) so that would seem to make sense otherwise why get the 340-500s in the first place if both routes could be managed using 340-600s? I know JFK-BKK is ostensibly further than LAX-BKK but the JFK route (presumably) has the benefit of tailwinds since it flies eastabout, whereas the LAX-BKK route is westabout.

 

Have you got any idea how the 744s are coming along with their refurbishment? There only seems to be the one aircraft operating BKK-FRA at the moment.

 

Whatever the case on the LAX route, I'm glad you have got the early BKK arrival - the early morning Euro arrivals should just have about cleared by the time you get to immigration. All the sweeter if you have managed to fly in enhanced economy on one of the A345s.

 

Tom

Edited June 8, 2005 by CheshireTom

[BigDUSA 71]

How sweet it is. Vindicated at last.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

How sweet it is. Vindicated at last.

BigDUSA,

 

Not at all. The announcement was made this week - not sometime in April as you claimed. Neither was the "announcement" reported in the Nation, TG's press releases, nor the Bangkok Post as you claimed.

 

As usual, you were talking out of your arse. If not, provide a link to the announcement you referred to.

 

Tom

[echster 1]

echster,

 

Thai's schedule has now been updated and shows the BKK-LAX non-stop flights to be operated using A345s.  The flight time on the return leg is 20 mins longer than the JFK route (17:31 v 17:10) so that would seem to make sense otherwise why get the 340-500s in the first place if both routes could be managed using 340-600s?   I know JFK-BKK is ostensibly further than LAX-BKK but the JFK route (presumably) has the benefit of tailwinds since it flies eastabout, whereas the LAX-BKK route is westabout.

 

Have you got any idea how the 744s are coming along with their refurbishment?  There only seems to be the one aircraft operating BKK-FRA at the moment.

 

Whatever the case on the LAX route, I'm glad you have got the early BKK arrival - the early morning Euro arrivals should just have about cleared by the time you get to immigration.  All the sweeter if you have managed to fly in enhanced economy on one of the A345s.  

 

Tom

The A345, eh? I said it was rumor or conjecture, right? LOL Anyways, I see it's posted as the A345 now. Even better if you ask me. I've tried to price it, but no luck right now. Wonder what the C and Y tickets will run?

 

I've circle-mapped the routes...JFK is roughly 400 miles longer than LAX. I also don't understand how the LAX is only 20 minutes longer, especially since it'll be westbound. The JFK-BKK leg runs eastward over Greenland, the Pole, then down thru India, and east to BKK. Makes you wonder, huh?

 

I've heard the B744s are not getting refurbed until either C or D checks. It could take them forever. Then again, TG is doing the refurb. I've seen SQ has been contracted the B777 refurbs....so maybe that won't take as long!

Edited June 8, 2005 by echster

[echster 1]

I had the chance to run some prices thru TG's homepage:

 

Business Class was running at roughly $3300

Coach was running at roughly $750

 

Just my opinion, but that's damn good considering it's nonstop. Almost all other airlines are charging that WITH stops along the way. Adding to that, they're brand new planes with all the bells and whistles and it looks decent. I wonder what specials they'll run to get the route going?

[CheshireTom 1,377]

echster,

 

The info on LAX obviously flowed from the TG Q2 Investors' Presentation on 26 May. It makes for some interesting reading. Bear in mind that TG's fiscal year is 1 Oct - 30 Sep.

 

TG Q2 Investor Relations Presentation

 

A couple of snippets from it:

 

JFK non-stop prices to rise by 25% in July so it seems an opportune moment to buy your ticket if you plan using that route.

 

Adjust price upwards for sectors with > 70% cabin factor (bad news for London).

 

New routes (in addition to J'Burg and Moscow) include Berlin, Christchurch and MANCHESTER! (it's the first time I've seen it in writing from them). Ideally we would like one of those nice, new 772ERs to compete directly with Singapore and Malaysia's non-stops but we'll probably end up with a MD11 via Moscow. I'll stick to Qatar in that case.

 

Regards,

 

Tom

Edited June 8, 2005 by CheshireTom

[echster 1]

echster,

 

The info on LAX obviously flowed from the TG Q2 Investors' Presentation on 26 May. It makes for some interesting reading. Bear in mind that TG's fiscal year is 1 Oct - 30 Sep.

 

TG Q2 Investor Relations Presentation

 

A couple of snippets from it:

 

JFK non-stop prices to rise by 25% in July so it seems an opportune moment to buy your ticket if you plan using that route.

 

Adjust price upwards for sectors with > 70% cabin factor (bad news for London).

 

New routes (in addition to J'Burg and Moscow) include Berlin, Christchurch and MANCHESTER! (it's the first time I've seen it in writing from them). Ideally we would like one of those nice, new 772ERs to compete directly with Singapore and Malaysia's non-stops but we'll probably end up with a MD11 via Moscow. I'll stick to Qatar in that case.

 

Regards,

 

Tom

I've already seen the presentation, but thanks anyways! I was going to update my previous post but you beat me to it!

 

Did you catch the aircraft delivery dates?

 

A345s

2 x FY05

1 x FY06 (October)

1 x FY07

 

A346s

2 x FY05 (June and July for ZRH, AKL, NRT)

3 x FY06

1 x FY09

 

B772ER

3 x FY06

2 x FY07

1 x FY08

 

As far as the refurb process, here's where it stands.....very slowly, as it is! Looks like the B777s are dropping F!

 

B744s

12 starting in March 05 (F, C, Y)

 

B772s

8 starting in June 05 (C, Y)

 

B773s

6 starting in Summer 06 (C, Y)

[Emil 0]

I had the chance to run some prices thru TG's homepage:

 

Business Class was running at roughly $3300

Coach was running at roughly $750

 

Just my opinion, but that's damn good considering it's nonstop. Almost all other airlines are charging that WITH stops along the way. Adding to that, they're brand new planes with all the bells and whistles and it looks decent. I wonder what specials they'll run to get the route going?

As long as they can fill the planes its cheaper to fly non stop than to make a stop in between. The airline doesn't have to pay a fee for the additional airport nor the additional fuel and waste of time for an additional landing and take off. How many times have you had to circle an airfield waiting for a clearance to land?

[BigDUSA 71]

BigDUSA,

 

Not at all.  The announcement was made this week - not sometime in April as you claimed.  Neither was the "announcement" reported in the Nation, TG's press releases, nor the Bangkok Post as you claimed.

 

As usual, you were talking out of your arse.   If not, provide a link to the announcement you referred to.

 

Tom

What can I say? Last April 22 I looked into the BigDUSA crystal ball and pulled out of the air that Thai would start non stop service LAX-BKK later this year. Guess what? It came true.

 

Once again I'm looking into the crystal ball and it's starting to clear..... What do I see, a narrow minded guy with no sense of humor and his name is CheshireTom.

Edited June 8, 2005 by BigDUSA

[CheshireTom 1,377]

What can I say? Last April 22 I looked into the BigDUSA crystal ball and pulled out of the air that Thai would start non stop service LAX-BKK later this year. Guess what? It came true.

No Denny. You didn't say that TG would start a new service to LAX, you said Thai had announced a new service to LAX. They hadn't and didn't do so until this week. As I said at the time:

 

"Yep, I can find plenty speculation of what will happen with the third A340-500 when it arrives in the autumn but no announcement from Thai."

 

Tom

 

BTW - Slightly off-topic .......... Have you ever stayed at the Westin Bangkok?

[echster 1]

As long as they can fill the planes its cheaper to fly non stop than to make a stop in between. The airline doesn't have to pay a fee for the additional airport nor the additional fuel and waste of time for an additional landing and take off. How many times have you had to circle an airfield waiting for a clearance to land?

Well, I place serious doubt into your reasoning....if what you posted is a reasoning. Nonstops are almost always more expensive for the added "benefit" of convienience.

 

My cases in point: did you notice TG's prices on the NYC-BKK trips that flew via Japan with the B744 vs. what the price is now nonstop with the A345? Also, look at SQ on the same route to Singapore and also SQ nonstop to SIN via LAX. I've priced the trips and the nonstop was higher in every case. (For instance: LAX-TPE-SIN-return on the B744 in C Class is $3800 vs. $5500 LAX-SIN-return).

 

I will grant you the reduction in operating expenses for a stop as opposed to nonstop...it is partially true. What you fail to see from a business perspective is that a stop is not bad, and in this case I'll use SQ (LAX-SIN-LAX):

 

The range of the A345 requires reduced seating vs. the B744 with a technical stop in TPE. SQ carries less than 200 pax on the nonstop vs. 300+ with the stop. More pax gives them a chance to earn more money. There are complications, though, with this statement. Also, the stop allows SQ to earn more money by shipping freight, ie. freight from LAX-TPE and then TPE-SIN. "Hauling the mail" is lucrative business for airlines. Another case where money can be made for the stop is people can get off/on at the stop location. People getting off/on pay for tickets. No one is getting off a nonstop! I can keep listing reason, but I think you should start to see it. Nonstops are convienient for the pax, but the airlines don't mind stopping because it gives them a chance to earn extra revenue.

 

BTW, I've never circled an airfield waiting to land. However, I must add, I've never seen a plane in a holding pattern over an airport. I have, though, placed many aircraft into holding patterns for numerous reasons. Aircraft are held miles away from airports for many reasons...mostly dealing with safety. And BTW, in December I'll start my 12th year as a controller.

[echster 1]

Tom,

 

I forgot to mention that when TG offered their new service to JFK, it was priced on TG's webpage at:

 

$2750 for Business

$1200 for Premium Economy

$1000 for Economy

 

If the prices are roughly the same for LAX, I'll probably be forced to say bye-bye to EVA.

[Emil 0]

Well, I place serious doubt into your reasoning....if what you posted is a reasoning.  Nonstops are almost always more expensive for the added "benefit" of convienience.

 

My cases in point: did you notice TG's prices on the NYC-BKK trips that flew via Japan with the B744 vs. what the price is now nonstop with the A345?  Also, look at SQ on the same route to Singapore and also SQ nonstop to SIN via LAX.  I've priced the trips and the nonstop was higher in every case. (For instance: LAX-TPE-SIN-return on the B744 in C Class is $3800 vs. $5500 LAX-SIN-return).

 

I will grant you the reduction in operating expenses for a stop as opposed to nonstop...it is partially true.  What you fail to see from a business perspective is that a stop is not bad, and in this case I'll use SQ (LAX-SIN-LAX):

 

The range of the A345 requires reduced seating vs. the B744 with a technical stop in TPE.  SQ carries less than 200 pax on the nonstop vs. 300+ with the stop.  More pax gives them a chance to earn more money.  There are complications, though, with this statement.  Also, the stop allows SQ to earn more money by shipping freight, ie. freight from LAX-TPE and then TPE-SIN.  "Hauling the mail" is lucrative business for airlines.  Another case where money can be made for the stop is people can get off/on at the stop location.  People getting off/on pay for tickets.  No one is getting off a nonstop!  I can keep listing reason, but I think you should start to see it.  Nonstops are convienient for the pax, but the airlines don't mind stopping because it gives them a chance to earn extra revenue.

 

BTW, I've never circled an airfield waiting to land.  However, I must add, I've never seen a plane in a holding pattern over an airport.  I have, though, placed many aircraft into holding patterns for numerous reasons.  Aircraft are held miles away from airports for many reasons...mostly dealing with safety.  And BTW, in December I'll start my 12th year as a controller.

I didn't say the airlines would charge lower fares for non stop, I said it was cheaper for them to fly non stop. Granted I didn't use the correct terminolgy when I said circle the airfield, but I have experienced 15 minutes delays waiting for the pilot to get the OK to land at Narita. Also twice I've been on a plane as we were getting ready to land that the pilot had to abort at the last second and we had to wait for another opportunity. From SFO that I know of, you can get to LOS by Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore. Now not all of these are on a route that would be the shortest distance between SFO and LOS thus requiring more fuel and time. Since your a controller then I'm sure that your aware that even when these plane don't have to wait for a landing that they spend additional fuel getting into the correct landing pattern for the airfield and when they take off they aren't usually going if the direction of the next airfield.

 

Congratulations on your 12 years as a controller. I retired with 34 years as a civilian with the Air Force in logistics as a cost analyst. Logistical support of military aircraft and civilian aircraft doesn't differ that much. Depot maintenance and the changing out of aircraft componets for servicing are based on flown hours. The more flights that you can generate between required maintenance, the more revenue. Also the changing of tires was dependent on the number of landings.

 

BTW, on my next trip to LOS UA put me on SQ for my freebie because they were booked solid. My flight from SFO to Singapore is direct but with a stop in Hong Kong.