Widowed and legal rights

[jbecker 0]

Hello,

 

a friend of my gf widowed after a very short marriage. She had a British husband and they marriage lasted only a couple of months until the husband died.

 

What are her legal rights? I promised to help her and I have no idea about the British system and if she is entitled to a husbands employee pension as is the case in Finland.

 

Who might help, does she need a lawyer, does British embassy help. Only information she got was the letter from Britain that her husband past away.

 

Any good links would be good too.

 

Cheers

jb

[MrMango 667]

Being a Yank, I cannot help, but I would start by calling the Embassy in Bangkok.

 

In the U.S., My TW will get my government pension if we were married for at least 2 years, and she is at least 60 years old, as I remember. Not a bad deal for a Thai, as upon you demise, your estate only gets a few hundred dollars, and none of your children get a dime if they are of age.

[Eneukman 1]

Hello,

 

a friend of my gf widowed after a very short marriage. She had a British husband and they marriage lasted only a couple of months until the husband died.

 

What are her legal rights? I promised to help her and I have no idea about the British system and if she is entitled to a husbands employee pension as is the case in Finland.

 

Who might help, does she need a lawyer, does British embassy help. Only information she got was the letter from Britain that her husband past away.

 

Any good links would be good too.

 

Cheers

jb

 

Was the marriage formally registered or was it just a Buddhist ceremony?

 

Was the husband English or Scottish? Rights of the widow are different in Scotland and England.

 

I assume no Will had been made (if English any existing Will would have been rendered void by the marriage but not so if Scottish).

 

Did the husband have children from a previous relationship (or children from this relationship)?

 

In Scotland, a widow can claim a certain percentage of the husband's moveable (excluding house if owned in his own name) estate. In England, a widow can only make a claim where she was entirely dependent on the husband - though I have no idea of how this works in practice.

 

The laws governing the distribution of an estate where there is no Will are also quite different in Scotland and England.

 

If you can provide some more information, I may be able to give you a more definitive answer.

 

Alan

[jbecker 0]

Was the marriage formally registered or was it just a Buddhist ceremony?

 

Was the husband English or Scottish? Rights of the widow are different in Scotland and England.

 

I assume no Will had been made (if English any existing Will would have been rendered void by the marriage but not so if Scottish).

 

Did the husband have children from a previous relationship (or children from this relationship)?

 

In Scotland, a widow can claim a certain percentage of the husband's moveable (excluding house if owned in his own name) estate. In England, a widow can only make a claim where she was entirely dependent on the husband - though I have no idea of how this works in practice.

 

The laws governing the distribution of an estate where there is no Will are also quite different in Scotland and England.

 

If you can provide some more information, I may be able to give you a more definitive answer.

 

Alan

 

The marriage was registered both in Britain and in Thailand.

 

Husbands lives close to London, so most likely he was from England and he had children from previous marriage. No will has been made.

 

Thank you a lot in advance for your time!

 

Cheers

jb

[nidnoyham 30]

The only bits I know about, because this happened to a workmate 2 years ago. Married in LOS then he returned to UK to get enough money to retire to LOS. He was killed in an accident. He had a company pension, which his wife was entitled to 50% of plus 25% each for up to 2 children under 16.

 

The first problem in paying a pension to her, was that she had no U.K National Insurance, for tax purposes. the pension is taxed, so she must be on the books for any benefits. I believe there was a problem with paying a lump sum, into a Thai bank account from the U.K too. The only Thai bank in U.K was a clearing bank.

 

A word of warning, if you use a local person, who claims to know how to handle this, make sure you know how much of a cut they want before you go ahead. This girl was a simple country girl, and the money on offer was more than she could immagine, so she was willing to pay a lot , to get a lot. I think the woman handling it got about £10,000 commision.

 

The only thing I know is that someone will want their cut. If the man has family here, it can get complicated, if they contest any will he may have made in the wifes favour, expecially after such a short time- Good luck.

[tom21 19]

quote

The first problem in paying a pension to her, was that she had no U.K National Insurance, for tax purposes. the pension is taxed, so she must be on the books for any benefits. I believe there was a problem with paying a lump sum, into a Thai bank account from the U.K too. The only Thai bank in U.K was a clearing bank.

 

 

I have just started to get a pension from the uk. i have no national insurance number (never had one) and it was no problem. the uk charged tax but australia has a tax agreement with the uk so i will pay australian tax

 

as the marrage was registered in the Uk she should have the right of abode in the UK

[nidnoyham 30]

I have just started to get a pension from the uk. i have no national insurance number (never had one) and it was no problem. the uk charged tax but australia has a tax agreement with the uk so i will pay australian tax

 

as the marrage was registered in the Uk she should have the right of abode in the UK

 

 

I am sure there are differing circumstances regarding her and your status as a tax payer. We are talking about a Thai, you are talking about Australia. The pension fund was from a Canadian company, but based in the U.K. There is no tax agreement between Thailand and the U.K as far as I know.

 

I think anyone who gets married to a Brit' now, is issued with a 2 year visa, then after the two years, if still married, they get a settlement one. I don't think the lady wants to live here anyway, so that isn't an issue.

 

I am only stating things as I saw them. I knew the Thai lady acting on her behalf. Because I knew the company contact in UK, we talked about it at length.

 

I don't envy anyone doing what she wants to do. Maybe there is an opening for someone to find out about all this and make a few bob- someone will.

Edited September 12, 2006 by nidnoyham

[whitespider 1]

Provided the marriage WAS fully legal in the UK she will be subject to the intestacy rules in the UK as no will was drafted after they were married.

 

Under UK intestacy rules she is entitled to the first £125,000 of his estate and a portion of the remainder. There is better info' than I can give here

 

http://www.uk-wills.net/intestacy-laws-eng...-wales/#more-50

 

With regard to the pension

 

The vast majority of pensions schemes have discretionary payments to spouses, i.e. it is at the discretion of the pension trustees whether ot pay it or not. Each scheme is likely to have a different set of criteria to enable the trustees to make the decision. That said they are almost always paid which is why people (incorrectly) tend to view them as a "right" rather than as a discretionry payment. many (but not all) will cease should she remarry, some pay forever, again usually at the discretion of the trustees.

 

the simple answer is to get in touh with the Scheme Trustees and they will tell your friend what she is and is not entitled to and for how long.

 

While I am on the subject, guys PLEASE make valid wills, one in your home country and one in Thailand. make sure the holder/trustees of your will know about the existence of the other. No-one is immortal and you just never know when it might happen but even in countries like the USA and UK 70% of people who die do so without making a will.

 

if you are UK citizen you can make a will ONLINE in minutes for under £30 at sites like www.online-will.co.uk

[Eneukman 1]

Provided the marriage WAS fully legal in the UK she will be subject to the intestacy rules in the UK as no will was drafted after they were married.

 

Under UK intestacy rules she is entitled to the first £125,000 of his estate and a portion of the remainder. There is better info' than I can give here

 

http://www.uk-wills.net/intestacy-laws-eng...-wales/#more-50

 

With regard to the pension

 

The vast majority of pensions schemes have discretionary payments to spouses, i.e. it is at the discretion of the pension trustees whether ot pay it or not. Each scheme is likely to have a different set of criteria to enable the trustees to make the decision. That said they are almost always paid which is why people (incorrectly) tend to view them as a "right" rather than as a discretionry payment. many (but not all) will cease should she remarry, some pay forever, again usually at the discretion of the trustees.

 

the simple answer is to get in touh with the Scheme Trustees and they will tell your friend what she is and is not entitled to and for how long.

 

While I am on the subject, guys PLEASE make valid wills, one in your home country and one in Thailand. make sure the holder/trustees of your will know about the existence of the other. No-one is immortal and you just never know when it might happen but even in countries like the USA and UK 70% of people who die do so without making a will.

 

if you are UK citizen you can make a will ONLINE in minutes for under £30 at sites like www.online-will.co.uk

 

The link explains things better than I could. Just a note - the intestacy laws are different in Scotland but I won't go into those here as they would seem to be irrelevant to the original question.

 

On to the subject of Wills, which I know a lot quite a bit about having spent 25 years dealing with estates of people who have died.

 

It's not essential to have seperate Wills dealing with your estate in your home country and your estate in Thailand BUT it makes life a hell of a lot easier especially if you want different people to benefit. If you do make sepereate Wills, it is NOT sufficient to make your solicitors in each country know about the existence of the other Will. SEND THEM A COPY OF THE OTHER WILL AND ASK THEM TO CONFIRM IN WRITING THAT IT DOES ONE WILL DOES NOT INADVERTENTLY REVOKE THE OTHER.

 

Sorry to shout BUT I did come across a case where a Will dealing with a guy's estate outwith the UK revoked his UK Will. It wasn't intended and he later signed a Codicil to his UK Will, which saved the day though it caused me one hell of a lot of problems and dare I say it two people signed an affidavit where I very much doubt that they in all reality could be totally certain that what they were swearing was the absolute truth. I wasn't bothered as it was correcting what in all reality was a mistake.

 

One other point, especially if the UK is your home country, the UK Courts will want to see evidence that ALL valid Wills you have signed are valid in the country in which you are domiciled. Here, please note that domicile is NOT the same as residence. I am resident in Thailand but I am still domiciled in Scotland - though it is my aim to become domiciled in Thailand.

 

Alan

[carpediem 0]

to smooth probate, administration etc of a will should one make a will in every country where one has property (of any kind, including cash in a bank account)? or only/also the countries of citizenship, residence, domicile - and perhaps countries in which beneficiaries under the will live? or is this too complicated for anyone other than a series of solicitors in the various countries to comment on?

i intend to establish both residence and domicile in thailand fairly soon. i have children living in two european countries. i may have other potential beneficiaries in thailand in due course. i don't have a will - yet. a mess.

cd

[Eneukman 1]

to smooth probate, administration etc of a will should one make a will in every country where one has property (of any kind, including cash in a bank account)? or only/also the countries of citizenship, residence, domicile - and perhaps countries in which beneficiaries under the will live? or is this too complicated for anyone other than a series of solicitors in the various countries to comment on?

i intend to establish both residence and domicile in thailand fairly soon. i have children living in two european countries. i may have other potential beneficiaries in thailand in due course. i don't have a will - yet. a mess.

cd

 

As I mentioned above, I dealt with the administration of estates for 25 years.

 

The first comment I would make is that the more Wills you have, the greater the chance of something going wrong due to a mistake being made. It really depends on how substantial the assets you have in each country. If it's just a bank account, then I wouldn't bee too concerned. Having said that, if you want different people to benefit from the assets in a particular country, then I would do a seperate Will for that country from an administrative point of view if nothing else.

 

One point you should do is to ensure that each Will states precisely what assets are covered by it (e.g. "solely within Thailand" etc. Also one Will should deal with your assets worldwide but specifically exclude your assets in, say, Thailand.

 

Also, never, ever, revoke ALL previous Wills. Yes, revoke all previous Wills dealing with your estate within (or outwith) Thailand. A statement revoking ALL previous Wills will do just that - even if it was only intended to revoke previous Thai Wills.

 

If a beneficiary lives in a country where you have no assets, it would be pointless preparing a Will in that country.

 

If you have assets in the UK, the authorities there (Probate Registry in England or Commissary Office in Scotland) will want to see the ORIGINALS of ALL valid Wills as well as satisfying themselves that all these Wills are validly executed in accordance with the laws of the country in which you are domiciled. (NOT the laws of the country where the assets are situated). Probate granted in that country will remove the need for an original Will to be produced).

 

This area can be bloody complicated though one way to get round the "valid under the laws of the country in which you are domiciled" is to ensure that the Will is validly executed in the country in which it is signed.

 

It would not do any harm to get proper advice from a solicitor in each country you hold assets though the chances of your average small town family solicitor having the required experience is not high. I have had to tell qualified solicitors that they were talking shite on more than one occasion. (I have a banking qualification)

 

Alan

[jbecker 0]

I got a lot of valuable advices, thank you all for those.

 

Just have a one basic guestion: are authorities (in Britain) obliged to contact widowed person or is it vice versa. And how they have to proof they have tried to contact if they have tried but have not been able to locate or reach the widowed person .

 

Cheers

jb

Edited September 13, 2006 by jbecker

[whitespider 1]

I got a lot of valuable advices, thank you all for those.

 

Just have a one basic guestion: are authorities (in Britain) obliged to contact widowed person or is it vice versa. And how they have to proof they have tried to contact if they have tried but have not been able to locate or reach the widowed person .

 

Cheers

jb

 

Most trustees are not obliged but would make reasonable effort. You friend should contact them to start the ball rolling whatever the scheme rules say.

 

In addition to the "pension" most schemes have death in service life insurance. This is (usually) written under trust so can be paid to the widow directly without having to wait for the probate to be granted. Given that her husband died intestate (no will) probate could take months, even years, so this kind of lump sum paid quickly is very useful. Typical scheme benefits would be 2-4 x salary so if he was making £30k a year it could be a nice sum.

 

Either way she has little to lose by contacting them to find out.

 

As a postscript - my father died without a will and had a wife and ex wife and it was horrendous. I would urge everyone to make a will even if assets are small. Too many people beleive that the money simpy goes direct to wife and/or kids - it DOESNT't. At worst it can go to the crown. If you have no dependents it would be better to leave it to an orphamage in Thailand than to the government. You can make a [solicitor checked] will ONLINE in minutes at www.online-will.co.uk (UK ONLY) for less than £30

Edited September 15, 2006 by whitespider

[Eneukman 1]

I got a lot of valuable advices, thank you all for those.

 

Just have a one basic guestion: are authorities (in Britain) obliged to contact widowed person or is it vice versa. And how they have to proof they have tried to contact if they have tried but have not been able to locate or reach the widowed person .

 

Cheers

jb

 

I'm not sure of the answer to this but I do know that there is a limit on how far back arrears of benefit can be claimed. I would therefore strongly recommend the widow to contact the authorites herself.

 

There is also a minimum age a widow has to be to claim a state widow's pension. I'm not sure of the age but believe it is either 40 or 45. Also, some company pension schemes will reduce the amount of a widow's pension if the widow there is a large age difference between the two parties - possibly 15 years.

 

Alan