Kleyshay

Got the same deal myself, in the VT6. 500 baht per night. Flying out tomorrow from Heathrow. Will let you know what the condo and noise levels are like.

I flew with them from Amsterdam to Beijing last year. Cost was low, and everything was acceptable but no more. It was a very crowded flight, though, which didnt help. They certainly wouldn't be my airline of choice. Definately not in the class of Eva. China airlines are marginally better too. Personally I would pay maybe $200 - $300 extra to go with Eva but thats just me. If you are on a budget and flight times suit, then they are worth a punt.

Hi guys, I just went into the new wing at Areca, had a chat with my friend there who says it is all up and running and have almost full occupancy. She invited me up to take a look at one of the rooms which look very nice. This is a super deluxe rooms which are currently 1990 baht p/n (High Season rate) although are set to come down to low season rate in Feb. There are definately more people around the back pool area, which it shares with the Corona wing. I am sure their website will give you more info, but thought i'd post anyway.

I believe the point of maintaining the place and repairs was first highlighted by Agogogaran and Lovedog within in the first two replies. Yes, torrenova, we are all aware and have accepted that the costs for this were not allowed for in the original post. I see what you are saying about variable and fixed costs, and a good example used, but surely replacing TV sets that are in perfect working order with Bt40,000 Plasma TV's, would not be part of anyones business plan, as we are not going to attract those high end customers with just a Plasma TV are we ? If you are going to start replacing a broken TV, with that Plasma, the 22 baht per day would surely have to be recoverable in the room rate, because I do not know of any Bt600 a night guesthouses with Bt40,000 Plasma TV's. Maybe one could charge Bt622 per day for the luxury of have one and Bt644 after five years when the new ones arrive. Seriously, I would think at Bt150 per room per day, you would have to be a little unlucky with damages, breakages repairs, maintainance etc, but if thats the figure then so be it. Thank-you for highlighting these costs, as I really have no idea about them, except that one could buy 6 of those Plasma TV's to put in each room, with change for a toilet roll as a bonus, they'd have to make that last though. I agree with most of that, except for the fact, I can get on a baht bus on Pattaya Klang at Carrefour, and it will take me to walking street. Might take me a while to get me there agreed, but it will get me there for 10 baht. Coming home, I get on at Walking Street, alight at the crossroads with 2nd Road and Pattaya Klang and pay my 10 baht, get on another and get off at Carrefour, again 10 baht for the ride. Thats a total cost of 30 baht, not the 200 baht you quote. I would suspect you are talking about chartering the baht bus at that price, which there is no need to do, unless I guess you are a first time visitor and don't know your way around, in which case you would probably pay whatever the driver told you the fare was. Incidently Joekicker, why do you think this not a bad deal, as a first offer, based on the 50% occupancy rate, or more, as is suggested is needed, when that comment is in such contrast to all made by others ?

Lovedog, that sounds slightly more in the buyers favour, as presumably the option to get out after the 5 years is then available, assuming you wanted / needed to, which seems to be a requisite for everyone. A 70% occupancy throughout the year, has got to be hard to achieve nowadays, although, like yourself I'm not an owner, I would think working at that percentage would make a very successful hotel or guesthouse, judging by the figures I know and didn't know about. My personal opinion is that an increase in occupancy rates may be achievable with this place, with an improved website and some advertising, although this may be counteracted with the declining numbers visiting Pattaya, or as I said originally more and more of those higher end clients coming and wanting to stay in the 4* / 5* hotels. Incidentally, I asked once more to confirm the cost of utlities for latest month, December (so worse case scenario). Here are the figures: Laundry: 8800 Electric: 20211 Water: 3500 Cable: 3675 Internet: 1100 So thats a total of 37786 at a 91% occupancy rate. Using the theory a 100% occupancy rate would come at at 40973 THB, not strictly true because the cable and internet cost will not change, so maybe one would be obliged to buy the odd toilet roll for the guests with the few extra baht. At a 50% occupancy rate costs would be approximately: Electric: 10105 (20211 x 50%) Water: 1750 (3500 x 50%) - not sure if this is correct as maybe there is a standard minimum chargeas in some countries ? Total: 11856 Add 10% for common areas 1185 Total: 13041 Laundry: 4400 (8800 x 50%) Cable: 3675 Internet: 1100 TOTAL: 22216 THB Add to this a waste collection service of 200 baht p/m which I have just been informed of as I write this !!!! OK this calculation is never going to be a truly accurate cost, and was never intended to be, it was always approximate (based on what I was told. I agree, I had ommited some of the costs in the first place, but maybe the utilities figure in the original post isn't so laughable afterall eh ? Maybe it's just the notion of having a business in Thailand that is...... I did ask the question on everyones behalf, "Did everyone sit in the dark, with no TV and sweating their apricots off with no air con on?" but this was just met with "Arai Na?'

I asked about a CT Scan for chest and addomen at Pattaya International Hospital Soi 4 when I was in there recently, and the girl on reception made a call and came back with 18,500 THB. Reason I asked was that as I had paid for one back home in UK last year and wondered what the difference would be. £850 in UK. I have no idea about the different types 64 slice etc, and if indeed this is what you require, but thought it might help Website is www.pih-inter.com

OK, thanks, MM & Lovedog, I see what you are saying. Although could it be the 'key money' isn't the issue, it's what's written in the leasehold contact, that matters, as that could possibly provide a way out if need be, which judging by the replies, is want the majority of people require. As there seems to be so much negativity against this so called 'key money', I am surprised ANYONE actually pays it, and therefore it still exists. Keeping with the original case, change the figure to 1.5m as was suggested would be a more appropriate sum, surely everyone would be still be saying "Yes, but it's 10 years rent in advance", because the above theory would still apply. It seems the general opinion is that to aquire the ideal business, no key money should be paid and just a higher rent each month handed over, that way if the person has to, or wants to, could, easily just walk away, so the advantage, for want of a better word, would then be handed over to the renter, but then you could ask why would the landlord put himself in such a position either. Does this actually happen ? He would still own the building agreed, but would then be forced to try and find another renter, while his property sits idle not making him money. I guess a fine balance of what the guy is prepared to 'lose' and what the landlord is prepared to 'win' has to be found. I hear many people refer to Thailand by saying only spend what you are prepared to lose, surely that applies to everyday life thoughout the world. Whatever you decide, be it buying a car, getting yourself a wife or whatever, there is always a potential for things to go wrong and you have to throw money at it to make it work or try and sell at a loss, or even walk away from it totally losing everything. Although in no way am I trying to condone selling the wife at a loss.

I might not be the sharpest knife in the draw, but i did attend the occasonal maths class at school So if after say 5 years you have had enough, regardless of if you are making a profit, could you just not try to 're-lease it' to someone else or do you just have no choice but to walk away with your money done ? Also when one leases a business or even any leasehold property for that matter, anywhere in the world other than Thailand what is the initial payment called then? A purchase price ? Does it not equate to the same thing as key money ? And what happens when the lease finishes, (in this case, when the 10 years is up), would you be required to pay another lump sum ? I see flats in UK changing hands for an example £1m leasehold, (OK more than 10 years, granted), but is this not just rent in advance? In which case why not just choose another property and pay your rent monthly. Or does this theory only apply to Thailand due to the land ownership issue ? Though I'm not sure how much land, Joe Trader owns with his Docklands penthouse flat.

5m baht up front to lease the place for 10 years (I called it key money, maybe this is the incorrect term, apologies) then 65000 baht p/m rent Then by the sound of it, you then walk through the door and start losing money

Fathermojo: Yes I do get on with the owner, i have known him for about 12 years, from my first visit to Pattaya. I am not interested providing every invoice or statement, if TSBA or Sunbelt want to do that for him and potential buyers, then fine. Therefore I appreciate then you guys could then not possibly give accurate figure, though if you think 40k p/m plus 1.5m is about right, then thankyou for your input, and this business is then way overpriced. It was more of a curious question, to which I seem to have spent far too long gathering information already and not spent enough time dilly dallying with the delights that Pattaya has to offer Location is Pattaya Klang (Cental Road), Carrefour, by the way. ChesireTom: I am totally unaware of facts about the work permits / minimum salary, so whatever the figure is, it seems it would make this a non starter anyway. And I see what you mean regarding the wages thing, thanks. I'm happy to pay 600 baht especially peak season. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I just wondered if this could work as a business and was asking you guys your thoughts, and by the sound of it there are alot of additional costs which I did not state, and thankyou for highlighting them. Like I said on an earlier post, I, IMHO I think that the only 'winners' in these businesses here in Thailand are the Thai landlord, it's no wonder I see so many places for sale or rent as I wander these streets.

This is not a bad deal, especially as a first offer. HOWEVER, why are you assuming a 50 per cent occupied rate? This is the real key, is how you are going to (partly) fill those 22 rooms. The reason I assumed 50% is because I have stayed there and seen, and when I wasn't there was informed by others of the numbers in there. I have seen the invoices books to back this up and no they were not the 'other' set of books either...lol Averages for the last year were: Jan 09: 16 rooms Feb 09: 13 rooms Mar 09: 10 rooms Apr 09: 13 rooms May 09: 7 rooms June 09: 7 rooms July 09: 6 rooms Aug 09: 7 rooms Sep 09: 6 rooms Oct 09: 8 rooms Nov 09: 12 rooms Dec 09: 19 rooms (before this is questioned: 1st Dec - 14th Dec average of 17 rooms were filled & 14th - 31st (FULL everyday) So thats 124 filled over the course of 12 months The max possible would have been 21 rooms (1 room is being used as a store) x 12 months = 252 An occupancy rate of 49.2%, OK so maybe my 50% may seem optimistic but near enough. This was achieved by walks ins, repeat business and word of mouth, with no advertising and IMHO a very poorly presented website comstructed about 6 months ago. Crucially any potential buyer would need to get more people through the door in that low season period as shown in the figures. I suppose a better website with maybe multi language, some advertising, promotions (longer term reduced rates, * nights for price of * nights or similar etc) may work. I don't think staff costs are as low as 22k I am not sure you could get Bt600 a night per room. I'd guess the standard of the F&F is more Thai than western. Utilities at 25k per month is laughable if the rooms are aircon. If not, nowhere near Bt600 per day. Yes the staff wages ARE 22k p/m (currently 3 staff @ 7000 baht, 7000 baht & 8000 baht) Why are you unsure you would you not get 600 baht a night ? It is being achieved already. I would say the room standard is more Western than Thai and it does have remote controlled air con and yes they do supply pillows The rooms are of reasonable size some are 26 m sq and some are 30 m sq inc shower room & balcony, modern, have air con, in room safe, wardrobe, work desk, free wi-fi, cable tv, fridge with 2 bottles of free water everyday, electric shower & cleaned everyday........by all means please suggest somewhere else for the same money or less and I am happy to go have a look and give you an honest comparison. Again I re-iterate from my original post, this is not my business to sell or indeed an advert, I couldn't care less if he sells it, leases it or keeps the place, I am merely stating fact of what the facilities are, as some of you are guessing incorrectly. . As for utilities, I was only stating what I was told based on a 50% occupancy rate, obviously more rooms occupied then higher bills. But I will try to confirm this myself, as I am sure you have more idea than me and this may be incorrect. The place would need managed, or is it assumed that the buyer would be contributing his efforts for free. Is the buyer not allowed to manage the place with a valid work permit / company then ? If not then yes obviously another wage would have to be added to the wage bill, thus reducing profits even further. Is the point of having any business, so the buyer takes any profits to put in his or her pocket ? Assuming a business makes a profit, how then is this contributing efforts for free? I would have thought the owner would take his 'wages' out of the profits made or are you saying he or she should take them in addition to ? Although some are questioning the facilities, room rates and occupancy rates, the general opinion seems to be that this would only not be viable as a business because the price of key money and rent are too high. So what would you think the key money / rent should be then? You seem to see it as the landlord makes 106,666 baht p/m while relaxing in his hammock, with the buyer hopefully making 42334 baht p/m perhaps running around like a headless chicken. Do you think this should be evened out a bit more or is it just a not acceptable income for Pattaya?

Got 'nicked' yesterday for walking the bike 20 yards down soi 8, then got on it when on the beach road - 600 baht fine

To attract the higher end customer, who buy the way doesn't stay in a 22 room guest house. You will have to make some big improvements, add a pool, internet with wifi, new furniture, paint, light fixtures, linens and towels, paint, parking lot, security, room safes, plasma TV's with cable. When I said I believe Pattaya is trying to attract the bigger spending customer I quoted the likes of Holiday Inn, Hard Rock and Amari, and did not include this or any other guesthouse.....that was my point. I am well aware the 600 baht guesthouse is not going to attract a high end customer, apologies if I was unclear about that. As for the big improvements, the place is almost new and has all the above without the pool, plasmas and parking lot. 42334 Bht per month Not big money for the investment, it doesn't add in incidentals as maintenance, replacing sheets, towels and such. How about toilet paper, cleaning supplies, loss from theft, advertising, insurance, lawyers, replacing light bulbs. Sure, alot of possible extra costs to consider. I give your own question back to you. What are your thoughts on this business "opportunity?" Well as you ask, my thoughts are that I personally would not want ANY business in Thailand. I am more than happy to use the place as one of many holiday destinations throughout the world, that I visit. My opinion is that the only real 'winner' in 99% of leased businesses in Thailand is the Thai landlord, although I have no experience of this personally. I just posted the question to you ex-pats, as I thought you would/should have alot more idea than myself if one can make this a viable business to live here if one wanted to. And actually survive on the profits made. I come to Thailand purely as a tourist and I am more than happy with that. I could not survive on my holiday with a budget of 42334 bht p/m less all the above costs, but to those that live in Pattaya, I would think most do not spend as freely as the tourist.

Not sure this is the correct section but here goes anyway..... During a conversation with the guesthouse owner (Thai) where I stay, he was telling me he had built the place and had been asked if he would sell. I was surprised, in our present climate, I couldnt see anyone, especially a farang buying it and asked why it didnt go down the lease route, he came back with this: A 22 Room centrally located guesthouse for lease A 10 year lease is on offer Owner wants 5m Key money Costs are as follows: All Utilities : 25000 p/m Staff : 22000 p/m Rent 65000 p/m Accountant: 2000p/m ? Total of : 114000 p/m Assuming a 50% occupancy: 11 rooms at say 600 baht per night x 30 days = 198000 A cashflow of 84000 less taxes Obviously you would need to get that initial 5m back too....lol I am assuming any farang would have to form a company to have this place, and wouldnt have a clue as to what this costs ? Your thoughts on this please, and no its not an advert and no it's not my business, either. I am of the opinion that Pattaya and maybe Thailand in general, is trying to attract the higher spending tourist staying at the likes of holiday inn, hard rock, amari etc etc rather than many people on a budget looking for a 600 baht room, but that is only my humble opinion. Although having said that I know for a fact a 50% occupancy rate is easily obtainable, as i have been here low, high and peak seasons and seen with my own eyes the numbers he gets through the door.

Was in Areca last week, talking with the front desk manager, (a friend of mine) and she told me it was definately opening in January. They are just, fitting furniture etc in rooms.

Thanks Joe and Bill for the quick replies. Looks like the way forward. Fly to Udon and then the bus it is. Dont suppose you know how often buses go from Udon to Loei or if there is an online timetable ?

Hello folks, I am looking to go up to Loei for a few days to see a mate of mine. I went up there about 3 years ago, flying with Nok Air for less than 1000 baht from Bangkok. It appears they have dropped the flights now, and I really cannot sit on a bus for 10 hours or whatever it is, so does anyone know of an alternative? Maybe another airline or maybe I could fly into another airport and get a shortr bus trip to Loei. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks Jacko and Rnine, I will check them out. And LostinAmsterdam, I know exactly what you mean mate, I do prefer the night time flights too, as I tend to adjust to the time difference a bit easier, but as I cant really sleep on planes anyway, thats why I originally posted the question, otherwise I wouldn't really care. Cheers guys

Thanks gents, I think I will pay the extra and go with Eva

Hi all, now looking at a direct flight from Heathrow to Bangkok. Thai are offering a fair price but I've never used them before. My question is what IFE do they have on this flight ? Is it the screens in the head rests or screens for everyone ? Don't know what aircraft they use but flight numbers are outbound #TG 917 and inbound #TG 910. Thanks folks

Hi folks, my friend and I have just booked a return flight from the UK directly with KLM on their website for later this year. My mate has since found out his girlfriend is pregnant and guess what....the baby is due the week we are due to fly. I have telephoned KLM and asked about a refund if we were to cancel and due to the fare code it is non refundable. When I checked the e ticket it states £180 of the cost was airport tax, so I asked the KLM girl, if we were entitled to be refunded this tax, as we would not be using the airport. Hesitantly she said we might be. I asked what she meant by this and she replied, 'well if you cancel you flight, you can apply for the tax to be refunded by I cannot say how much you will get, if any'. The dilemna I have is this, my mate has made his mind up not to go But on the other hand, I have 2 other friends going a month later, so I would like the refund and then book another flight and go with them. Has anyone had any experience with this before ? Would I be likely to get the tax refunded back ? Many Thanks chaps.

Not such a silly idea Bigjl, thats what i did. Bought one at tesco and took it with me. £17.50 and all was well. Thanks

Well I did it...just. I (with the help of our kind receptionist) managed to get up about 8am, I got the 9:40 bus to Morchit BKK purely cos my mate was coming from Rayong so would meet him there. I arrived about 12.00 and we then planned to get a taxi to Thonburi station to get the train at 13:55 to the bridge. Well, lo and behold my mates bus breaks down and he finally rolls in at 13:30 !!! OK we then decide to get a taxi, to try and make up some time. 1350 baht and an hour and a half later we get there. So back on schedule pretty much Had a nice time there, seeing the bridge, the museum, cemetry, caves etc etc Got a room at the River Kwai Hotel 1400 baht for the night. Up early again next day and took a baht bus taxi (1200 baht and he waits and brings you back) to Erawan Falls. Beautiful place to visit....not quite soi 8 Explained to him I wanted to get train back so he did his best Lewis Hamilton impression and got us back to Kanchanburi train station with 10 minutes to spare. 100 baht (Thais are free) and Two and a half hours and a nice scenic route back and we are in Thonburi Station, Bangkok. Seats are a bit harsh on the old butt cheeks but you can have a walk about and strtch your legs. Took a taxi to Southern Bus Terminal which is about 30 minutes and 150 baht away and made it in time for the last bus back to Pattaya (19.30) got back here at 22.00 last night. So all in all a nice little break for a couple of days. Yes it was a bit of a rush and I would say you could do with the extra day, but if you can get up a bit earlier than I can then 2 days is enough to see the above without rushing around. Thanks for the advice lads, and hope this helps anyone thinking of doing it.

Ok thanks chaps I am going tomorrow. Will bus up to Bkk in the morning ang catch the train from there. Will let you know how it goes. Once again many thanks

Hi there, I was planning a 2 or 3 day trip up to Kanchanaburi next week. I am trying to do it both time and cost effective as possible. Are there any direct Air Con buses that go up to there from Pattaya. What price and time does it take - possibly consider a mininbus. I see there is a bus from the Southern Bus Station in Bangkok, but if I remember the buses from Patts are to Ekamai and Mo Chit only. Is this correct ? How difficult and what sort of time from Ekamai or Mo Chit to Southern Treminal ? Or can anyone reccommend a better way? Thanks in advance chaps