Branson orders 43 x 787's

[flighty 31]

A bit premature insofar as the planes aren't built yet but last week the following was reported in case you didn't see it.

'Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic placed a £4bn order with Boeing for 43 new 787's.

It represents the biggest order ever placed by a European airline and will help Virgin launch new routes from Britain to Bangkok, Rio, Seattle, Vancouver and Melbourne. Virgin is also planning the first non-stop direct service between London and Australia.

The airline will begin by flying direct to Perth - which is expected to take 16 hours - but eventually hopes to run non stop routes to Sydney and Melbourne.'

The rest of the article in the Mail April 25th covers the politics of buying Boeing instead of Airbus.

No time frame indicated.

- Over to those in the know for the heads-up on the reality please..?

[Eneukman 1]

Not sure whether I'd want to be cramped in economy for 16 hours. I did 13 1/2 hours to Buenos Aires from London and that was too long.

 

The return flight from Perth to London will take longer as, I think, you will have headwinds for much of the way.

 

Alan

[bangkapiboy 5]

To me 8 hours and 16 hours is almost the same once I'm already sitting on the plane.

[spacebass 0]

It is very, very clear that Mr Bransons credibility as an honest straight talking perosn seems to be non existent after all the fuss he used to make about the safety aspect of running 4 engine planes across the Atlantic let alone non stop to Australia!! Does this have any bearing on the generality of his judgement?

Edited May 8, 2007 by spacebass

[BigDUSA 71]

It is very, very clear that Mr Bransons credibility as an honest straight talking perosn seems to be non existent after all the fuss he used to make about the safety aspect of running 4 engine planes across the Atlantic let alone non stop to Australia!! Does this have any bearing on the generality of his judgement?

 

As long as the check clears the short answer is no.

[funnyfrank 0]

Flighty

 

Thats very good news about Branson. There is definate need for more competion

on these routes.

The prices are very expensive this year, the tax has gone up £20 but the airlines

have put £70-100 on all the tickets, there are not many good deals about.

[sabang 0]

Airbus have just announced an even bigger order-

 

"Airbus receives Qatar order boost

 

Airbus has signed a $16bn (£8.1bn) deal to supply 80 of its forthcoming A350 aircraft to Qatar Airways.

The order replaces a 2005 agreement from the Middle East carrier to buy 60 of the mid-sized, long-haul aircraft.

 

Designed to compete with Boeing's new 787 Dreamliner, the first A350 will not be delivered until 2013.

 

By contrast, the 787 is due to begin service in May 2008. The 787 also has many more orders so far - currently 500 compared with the 104 for the A350.

 

'Modern fleet'

 

Qatar Airways chief executive Albar al-Baker said the order would equip the airline with the "very latest generation and most modern fleet".

 

The order is a welcome boost to Airbus, whose reputation and finances have been knocked by delays to its A380 super-jumbo project.

 

Now running two years late, the first of the twin-deck A380s will not be delivered until the end of this year.

 

The delay, caused by a wiring problem, has also led to Airbus introducing plans to cut 10,000 jobs in an attempt to trim costs. "

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6704567.stm

[Samsonite 181]

Airbus have just announced an even bigger order-

 

"Airbus receives Qatar order boost

 

Airbus has signed a $16bn (£8.1bn) deal to supply 80 of its forthcoming A350 aircraft to Qatar Airways.

The order replaces a 2005 agreement from the Middle East carrier to buy 60 of the mid-sized, long-haul aircraft.........

It is not a firm order, yet...

 

"DATE:30/05/07

SOURCE:Flightglobal.com

Qatar agrees to take 80 A350XWBs

By David Kaminski-Morrow

 

Middle Eastern carrier Qatar Airways has signed a

memorandum of agreement to buy 80 Airbus A350XWB twin-jets, including..."

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/...0-a350xwbs.html

[MrMango 667]

It is not a firm order, yet...

Middle Eastern carrier Qatar Airways has signed a

memorandum of agreement to buy 80 Airbus A350XWB twin-jets, including..."

Come on, a MOA is a binding agreement.

[Samsonite 181]

Come on, a MOA is a binding agreement.

The A350 still a paper airplane and will continue to be a paper airplane for at least another year and a half, maybe longer.

 

First it was to be a made over A330.

 

Then it was going to be composite panels over an aluminum frame.

 

Last week Airbus was talking about composite barrel construction, a la the B787.

 

This week there is talk they might make the fuselage a little wider.

 

Early on they said it was going to compete with the Boeing 787, but it really appears it is aimed at the larger Boeing 777 market.

 

At this point in time Airbus doesn't know how they are going to build the A350 or how big it is going to be, and when it will enter service is a guestimate at best. If the go with the composite barrels they will be lucky to have it ready by 2014.

 

If you were an airline, would you, at this point, sign anything that would bind you to purchasing something you may not want when and if you see the finished product? A wheel of Swiss cheese probably doesn't have as many holes in it as a "memorandum of agreement."

[sabang 0]

^ Qatar Air would appear to have not agreed with you.

[Samsonite 181]

^ Qatar Air would appear to have not agreed with you.

Can't read, huh?

[Samsonite 181]

....Last week Airbus was talking about composite barrel construction, a la the B787......

And.....today they say they are not going to use composite barrels......

Edited May 31, 2007 by Scalawag

[CheshireTom 1,377]

And.....today they say they are not going to use composite barrels......

 

Airbus never said it was going to use a composite barrel ....... you provided the link to some Mickey Mouse report that they were going to do so under pressure from the likes of Qatar.

 

Anyway, some more good news ....... Avianca also announced an Airbus order today for 70 planes. 150 aircraft in one day .......... not bad going for a lame duck methinks and the Paris Airshow is still a couple of weeks away.

[wacmedia 277]

Anyway, some more good news ....... Avianca also announced an Airbus order today for 70 planes. 150 aircraft in one day .......... not bad going for a lame duck methinks and the Paris Airshow is still a couple of weeks away.

 

Hi,

 

Well done to the people at Airbus. Toulouse are in the Champions League as well next season,

[Samsonite 181]

The Paris Airshow will be very interesting!

However, at this point that world class snake oil salesman, John Leahy, has all the credibility of a Thai bar girl with a sick buffalo.

Edited May 31, 2007 by Scalawag

[CheshireTom 1,377]

that world class snake oil salesman, John Leahy, has all the credibility of a Thai bar girl with a sick buffalo.

 

I'm sure Airbus realised that's what they'd get when they hired a Yank.

[sabang 0]

If Tom Leahy is a snake oil salesman, then I would expect him to get the sack like Boeings previous sales director, Ron Woodward.

No sign of it yet though....

[Samsonite 181]

Here you go, John Leahy at work:

 

Last week Mr. Leahy said, point blank, that the design work is frozen on specific models. Not So. See paragraphs number 29-32.

 

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/318469_iata05.html

 

"Last updated June 6, 2007 10:30 a.m. PT

Potential buyers of A350 seek more data

'We just don't know enough,' airline says

 

By JAMES WALLACE

P-I AEROSPACE REPORTER

 

VANCOUVER, B.C. -- Some key potential customers for the Airbus A350 that could give the plane much-needed industry momentum say they need more information from Airbus before deciding whether to order the plane.

 

Executives with Emirates and Singapore airlines, as well as International Lease Finance Corp., Airbus' biggest customer, all said details have been lacking from Airbus about the A350, which is being developed as a competitor to Boeing's 787 as well as the 777.

 

"There is no hurry. We just don't know enough yet about the A350 XWB program to make a decision," said Maurice Flanagan, executive vice chairman of Emirates Airlines & Group.

 

"We don't even know what the seat mile costs are," Flanagan said.

 

Emirates is considering an order for as many as 100 widebody planes from Boeing or Airbus. One of the industry's most closely watched jetliner campaigns, the contest is between the A350 XWB (extra-wide body) and the 787.

 

Emirates is only considering the 787-10 as an alternative to the A350. That will be a stretched version of the Dreamliner that Boeing has yet to announce a launch customer for.

 

Given the lack of performance details from Airbus about the A350, Flanagan said he did not know when Emirates would finish its evaluation, though he did say he believes an order will be placed later this year.

 

Flanagan's comments came during an interview on the sidelines of the annual general membership meeting here of the International Air Transport Association, which represents nearly 250 of the world's leading international airlines.

 

Boeing has won almost 600 firm orders for the 787, which will enter airline service in 2008. The A350 won't be ready until 2013. Airbus had to redesign the plane following criticism last year from Singapore Airlines and International Lease Finance Corp. that the A350 would not be competitive against the 787.

 

Airbus came back with essentially an all new design that will have a wider fuselage than the 787, will carry more passengers and will nearly match the 787 in its use of composites.

 

But the delay has cost Airbus sales momentum.

 

Qatar Airways last week said it will buy 80 A350s -- the first major order for the plane. That deal is expected to be completed soon.

 

Airbus also has 11 firm orders for the A350 from Finnair and two from U.S. lessor Pegasus Aviation Finance.

 

In addition, it has a number of commitments that have not been finalized.

 

Chew Choon Seng, chief executive of Singapore Airlines, said in an interview he is satisfied with the improved A350 design, though the airline still needs more details from Airbus about the A350-900. That will be the first of three A350 models that Airbus is developing and the one that Singapore Airlines is most interested in.

 

Singapore Airlines, which last year ordered 20 787s, also committed last year to buy 20 A350s.

 

John Leahy, chief commercial officer for Airbus, said Singapore is very close to signing a firm order for those A350s.

 

But Chew said that may depend on whether General Electric decides to develop an engine for the A350.

 

Rolls-Royce is so far the only engine maker to back the A350 program.

 

"We would prefer to have a choice," Chew said.

 

He noted that the first delivery of the A350-900 is six years out.

 

"We normally would select an engine maker about two years before delivery," Chew said. "To ask us to sign on for a new airplane without an engine choice so far in advance is something we would have to consider very carefully."

 

Chew is a pivotal player in the industry and someone that airplane makers Boeing and Airbus pay attention to.

 

So is Steven Udvar-Hazy, founder and chief executive of International Lease Finance Corp. Based in Los Angeles, ILFC is the world's largest aircraft lessor.

 

It is one of the most important customers for Boeing and Airbus, and when Hazy talks, both airplane makers listen.

 

Hazy ordered 22 Dreamliners from Boeing in 2005.

 

But it was his stinging public criticism last year of the A350 that sent Airbus engineers scrambling to make the plane more competitive.

 

"We need to see more details," Hazy said Monday when asked how soon ILFC might order the A350. "The 787 is much more advanced as far as ILFC is concerned," he added.

 

Hazy also dismissed comments made last week by Leahy, the Airbus sales chief, who said the design of the A350 is pretty much "frozen" and changes can't be made.

 

"Its thawing, not frozen," Hazy quipped, adding that more details on the A350 will likely be forthcoming from Airbus at the Paris Air Show in a couple of weeks.

 

At a briefing for reporters Monday at its headquarters in Toulouse, France, Airbus acknowledged the A350 design details are not frozen.

 

Gordon McConnell, chief engineer for the plane, said Airbus expects to freeze the design of the plane by the fourth quarter of 2008, with final assembly beginning in 2011 and the first flight coming early in 2012."

Edited June 7, 2007 by Scalawag

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Here you go, John Leahy at work:

 

Last week Mr. Leahy said, point blank, that the design work is frozen on specific models. Not So. See paragraphs number 29-32.

 

Scally,

 

Are you daft, or what?

 

You need to read better quality press than the Seattle rubbish that you seem to delight in masturbating over.

 

Leahy said the design was frozen in response to questions about the aircraft's fuselage. From Flight ......

 

Airbus does not intend to make changes to the fundamental fuselage design of its A350XWB, the company’s chief commercial officer customers John Leahy said today.

 

Discounting a report that Airbus is preparing to shift to an all-composite barrel, Leahy stressed that the fuselage design is frozen. “We have the A350-800, -900 and -1000,” he notes.

 

Slightly different from the crap you are spouting.

[wacmedia 277]

Scally,

 

Are you daft, or what?

 

You need to read better quality press than the Seattle rubbish that you seem to delight in masturbating over.

 

Hi,

 

Yeah the guy seems to pick out sources that are closely linked to his side of the argument. I'm sure Seattle Post has no contact with, or no interest in, the success of the company.