Foreign Currency Witholding

[jacko 8,822]

Thinking of buying a house here......now on top of all the concerns relating to company ownership, leases and loans and farangs cannot own land ... how about bringing in the money?

 

Anything over $20,000 will have 30% retained for a year unless it is for condo (not house?) purchase or investment in a company!

 

Now I don't like the idea of giving the (unelected) Thai government an interest free load of a few million baht for a year in the hope they might give it back to me when they choose to!

 

Any knowledgeable feedback on how this works, or better, how NOT TO give over the money would be greatly appreciated.

Edited February 19, 2007 by jacko

[Guest anto1]

IMO,you would be mad to buy a house at present in Thailand .Condo in foreign name yes .You can rent a house verry cheaply ,and then see how things go with the new governament in the next year .

[Michelangelo 0]

Transferring money and avoid the 30% withholding is very easy: just transfer with the clear instruction "funds for purchase of real estate property - Foreign Currency certificate required" and make sure you transfer in €, $ or any hard currency with conversion to Baht made in Thailand upon arrival of funds.

This applies whether you intend to buy condo or house. Do not listen to all the crap being told about "do not do this, do not do that ... and only buy a condo". I suspect several condo owners/real estate guys misusing this board to circulate false information and push condo prices up.

"Buying" a house in Thailand is safer than in many other places. Avoid the "company" route and use the lease option which is clear and straight forward. If your lease contract is properly drafted, it will include a provision allowing you to transfer in own ownerhsip as soon as law will permit and chances are that some clarity will appear in a not too distant future.

[Guest anto1]

>and chances are that some clarity will appear in a not too distant future

I would wait for the clarity first .

[jacko 8,822]

IMO,you would be mad to buy a house at present in Thailand .Condo in foreign name yes .You can rent a house verry cheaply ,and then see how things go with the new governament in the next year .

 

I am renting a house at the moment, and the temporary governments ineptidude has created a house buyers market. I live here full time and regard condos as blocks of flats better suited to frequent visitors. I also have a morbid fear of falling off a 112th floor balcony! A garden and a barbecue would be nice too! These big monstrosities are going up all over Pattaya and Jomtiem, sometimes right in the path of the sea view you bought 4-5 years ago. They are also being marketed at very high prices.

 

Next year might just be too late to get a good house at a good price..... IF the rules change and make house ownership easier for falangs, there will be a house buying rush, and a glut of condos on the market.

 

It is about time I did something mad in my life, buying a house might be a better move than opening a bar.

Edited February 21, 2007 by jacko

[HILLY 9]

I thought the 30% with holding to buy a house had been dropped!!!

[papillon 695]

Transferring money and avoid the 30% withholding is very easy: just transfer with the clear instruction "funds for purchase of real estate property - Foreign Currency certificate required" and make sure you transfer in €, $ or any hard currency with conversion to Baht made in Thailand upon arrival of funds.

This applies whether you intend to buy condo or house. Do not listen to all the crap being told about "do not do this, do not do that ... and only buy a condo". I suspect several condo owners/real estate guys misusing this board to circulate false information and push condo prices up.

"Buying" a house in Thailand is safer than in many other places. Avoid the "company" route and use the lease option which is clear and straight forward. If your lease contract is properly drafted, it will include a provision allowing you to transfer in own ownerhsip as soon as law will permit and chances are that some clarity will appear in a not too distant future.

 

How are you buying a house if you lease it?

 

You sure you know what you're talking about?

[jacko 8,822]

I thought the 30% with holding to buy a house had been dropped!!!

Well I have heard it has, and it hasn't, so am posting to get some clarity. Confusing place Thailand.

How are you buying a house if you lease it?

 

You sure you know what you're talking about?

I guess he is talking of the land being in a Thai name (the GF) and then getting her to sign a 30 year lease over to the mug who actually pays for the house and land. Although I suspect you know that Papillon.

 

I would myself prefer this approach as the concept of 'putting it in a comany name' with 51% Thai majority shareholders etc seems complicated and probably an illegal way to own property, if the company is actually only set up to own the house and does no business. As a lot of wise people here say, only spend what you can afford to lose!

Edited February 22, 2007 by jacko

[papillon 695]

Personally, I'd lease the land for 30 years and stick a luxury caravan on it.

 

Is Pattaya ready for a Caravan site yet?

[jacko 8,822]

Personally, I'd lease the land for 30 years and stick a luxury caravan on it.

 

Is Pattaya ready for a Caravan site yet?

 

Well we have got the trailer park white trash running around already......

[doolish 14]

Hi,

Bought a house Jan. 2006, Price for land and 3 bedroom bungalow 1,080,000B, transfered that ammount of money to pay for house over 6 days, you can only transfer 200,000B a day using your debit card, unless you phone your own bank first. I put land in wife name and house in mine. There was no 30% etc. to pay to Thai gov. for 'withholding' whatever that is. There was not problem at all with purchase the trouble came when you went to land office to register the land, the process took 2 days, we were half way through some forms when the staff suddenly stops work and goes for lunch, told to come back in a hour. Still this is a one off and the advantages of living here far outway this minor problem.

Cheers Doug.

[Michelangelo 0]

How are you buying a house if you lease it?

 

You sure you know what you're talking about?

 

Papillon, you never lease a house! You lease the land and own the house!

[papillon 695]

Papillon, you never lease a house! You lease the land and own the house!

 

Yes, I realise that.

 

Fat lot of good it's going to be when your 30 year lease expires and they decide not to renew the lease.

 

Unless you plan on dismantling it brick by brick and rebuild it somewhere else?

 

Although you own the house, you have to look at it as a long term rental.

 

I know most people will die before the lease is up and couldn't give a shit but it's not much use if you want to will it to somebody.

 

How easy is it to transfer the lease, etc? Are you even allowed to transfer the lease?

[Michelangelo 0]

Papillon, a good lease contract includes an option allowing you transfering the lease to full ownership to yourself or anybody else during the 30 years or at the end, if you do not want to renew the lease contract.

Where is the risk? In 30 years, laws can/will change and going for a lease contract basically gives you a 30 year window during which you can see property laws changing.

[jacko 8,822]

Papillon, a good lease contract includes an option allowing you transfering the lease to full ownership to yourself or anybody else during the 30 years or at the end, if you do not want to renew the lease contract.

Where is the risk? In 30 years, laws can/will change and going for a lease contract basically gives you a 30 year window during which you can see property laws changing.

 

A Thai lawyer will likely draw up any contract you like, whether it is legal and binding is another matter. For example I would wonder how a lease contract could include an option allowing you transfering the lease to full ownership to yourself , when as a foreigner, and as the law stands now, one cannot own the land.

 

That said, in 30 years I will likely be under the land not on it!

Edited February 24, 2007 by jacko

[papillon 695]

A Thai lawyer will likely draw up any contract you like, whether it is legal and binding is another matter. For example I would wonder how a lease contract could include an option allowing you transfering the lease to full ownership to yourself , when as a foreigner, and as the law stands now, one cannot own the land.

 

That said, in 30 years I will likely be under the land not on it!

 

My thoughts exactly!

 

Same same the 'option' of the lease automatically renewing for a further 30 years after the initial 30 years has expired

 

How much is the renewed lease gonna cost you with the probable increase in the value of the land?

 

If they do allow foreigners to buy land at some point in the future how much is the land you leased gonna be worth then?

 

Too many questions and nobody able to give an answer. That's why I regard a lease as a longterm rental. Look at it as money that you kiss goodbye to.

[torrenova 644]

You've got to be potty to buy an asset (house and land) you cannot control unless you are buying it for your "family" and not last night's barfine !

 

Cheaper than before or not, it could be worth bugger all !

Edited February 25, 2007 by torrenova

[papillon 695]

You've got to be potty to buy an asset (house and land) you cannot control unless you are buying it for your "family" and not last night's barfine !

 

Cheaper than before or not, it could be worth bugger all !

 

I see that torrenova has checked in and made a post here.

 

Looking at my watch, it's @ 8 oclock in the morning in Thailand when he posted.

 

Has he been on the piss all night or has he just woken up refreshed (sort of) when he posted?

 

I don't know but I'd guess the first option?

 

Either way, I have been reading the messages on this forum for a few years now and I would have to put torrenova in the 'Top Five' of blokes who know what they're talking about.

 

He has consistantly (sp?) given the best fact based info over the years and also has a valid opinion on most things that I am always eager to listen to (although I don't always agree).

 

I will be in to spend a few quid on my next visit although I will probably not mention that I'm a BM.

 

Arse licking session is now over. Get back to work you Northern Monkey

[papillon 695]

Jacko, I thought this might be useful info for you if you aren't already aware of it. Some kind of 'Super Turd' agreement ...........

 

"Don't lease the land or set up a company or any other such dodgy scheme.

 

Get a "superficies". This allows you to have control of the land and and all buildings on it, and lasts for the rest of your natural life (not just 30 years).

 

The land still belongs to your wife, but you have absolute control. I don't want to spell doom, but this also means if you separate you can decide who lives there, her or you. On your death the superficies expires and the land ( which, of course, belongs to her) reverts to her control.

 

On a brighter note, a back to back will giving her the house and its contents, and in her case leaving the land to whoever she chooses is a wise addition. The superfices would still be in force in your case. If she leaves it to you you have a short period in which to sell it (1 or 2 years, I cannot remember, because you are farang, or ownership reverts to the state (as I recall), so thats not a wise move; ensure she leaves it to a Thai National)

 

It's 100% legal, involves a competant lawyers fee and a very small fee at the local land registry. It is recorded on the land registry papers, and in case anybody doubts the legality of this, the land office officials are instructed to inform the lady concerned of the implications of what she is signing...and they do.

 

It was originally intended for things like rubber plantations etc, but is fine for houses too. I recently registered such an agreement at the land office in Udonthani, it takes about 2 hours there after passing through 3 sections of rubber stamping and counter signing... I have an example of the agreement I can upload (deleting the personal sections of course) in English. You need a Thai legalise version for the land office of course (my English version is competently translated, but I would not want to risk a translation back to Thai), hence the lawyer. It will need 2 witnesses, not family members.

 

Why everyone does not do this, instead of being sucked by fee seeking lawyer/accountants into the dodgy company route (which the Thais seem likely to outlaw) I am not sure.

 

Of course if you are 75+ a lease would be equally secure...... "

 

 

From here.....

 

http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=325

 

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it.

 

Be lucky

[jacko 8,822]

I think I have heard of this before...under a different name! Usurp or something similar.

 

Well I need to think this over, but to be honest I have little faith in the Thai justice system supporting me in any dispute with a Thai....ie an ex gone sour.

 

The 'company ownership' has always struck me as complex, and blatantly obvious circumvention of the land ownership law.

 

The lease, well for the above reasons may also prove risky. But 30 years would suffice despite not being 75!

 

If your option is so 'good' why do we not hear of it more often?

 

A recent argument with the lady has leaned me towards even more caution..... I am sure a lot of guys out there have been 'burned'.

 

Thanks for the meaningful input 'pappy' (from the film).

Edited March 4, 2007 by jacko

[redwood13 56]

Here's a very informative thread from thaivisa USUFRUCT OR SUPERFICIES

 

-redwood

[jacko 8,822]

That's the word I was trying to remember Usufruct!