Work Permits and immigration...

[Paul BRS 64]

Firstly this is not a dig at any particular side either whether working through a company or as an individual...

 

I am interested to know other BM opinions. As a small business owner like myself it has not been cheap going down the Legit route, i.e. Setting up your company, registering for tax, obtaining a work permit, paying your staffs tax and insurance contribution and last but not least the tax of my salary whether I am able to acheive it or not! Running a business here for some sectors is hard work. For me I have the attitude that I am not neccesarily here to make money but more to make a living.

 

That said I am interested to know peoples thoughts on farrang who may side-step. I am not interested in slagging people off so no names etc. but do wonder and sometimes find myself thinking why I hadnt just kept my head down! Having said that I do like being able to relax and not look over my shoulder when in my bar or cafe...

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Grandpollo 366]

I have found in any foreign country following the rules and using a local lawyer to pave the way for things always works, while doing things through the back door will work until it fails and the failure can cause problems that might cost more in the long run that the sneaky method saved.

 

And you never get the reputation of being the guy they caught.

[2 slices short 10]

Firstly this is not a dig at any particular side either whether working through a company or as an individual...

 

I am interested to know other BM opinions. As a small business owner like myself it has not been cheap going down the Legit route, i.e. Setting up your company, registering for tax, obtaining a work permit, paying your staffs tax and insurance contribution and last but not least the tax of my salary whether I am able to acheive it or not! Running a business here for some sectors is hard work. For me I have the attitude that I am not neccesarily here to make money but more to make a living.

 

That said I am interested to know peoples thoughts on farrang who may side-step. I am not interested in slagging people off so no names etc. but do wonder and sometimes find myself thinking why I hadnt just kept my head down! Having said that I do like being able to relax and not look over my shoulder when in my bar or cafe...

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

Congratulations Paul.

If everyone did things 100% we'd get rid of the garbage bar owners from all over Pattaya and the police would have to actually start catching criminals rather than extorting businessmen who haven't got all their 'i's dotted and 't's crossed.

 

I decided to do the same thing when I took over my business and have not ever paid a bribe in any fashion. After the first 3 attempts with me telling them everything was in order and producing the paperwork to prove it I have not been approached for any money ever since. Considering the business I'm in that's probably unique. It would sure as hell stop a lot of bar-owners whining about the BIB but they bring it on themselves by not complying with the law. Som nom na,

 

I can only think of a few bars that I know have done the right thing like you, they are few and far between.

Try asking the "employees' of just about any bar you like about their "social card" and wait for the blank looks - their employers are cheating them, simple as that. Most girls have never even heard of the card let alone had one.

 

The other advantage to the recipient is the benefits that are available after 3 months contributions. One of my staff had a severe motorcycle accident (outside work) and all expenses were covered by the fund, including partial wages for the time he was unable to work. some of these callous falang bar-owners must feel good about themselves cheating their staff out of a few measly baht every month - another reason I stay away from certain bars. From what Larry of Secrets told me his double hip replacement was done for free using the benefits of the 'social card'.

 

Also don't take the "I only pay permanent staff social .... " excuse. The legislation clearly states that ALL employees (casual, temporary, etc etc) MUST have contributions made. Just talk to the girls the next time you're in a bar and see for yourself how few do it.

 

My experience in this tells you that most business owners will lie about the truth in these matters so if you are looking for the truth be aware. One prominent BM when I asked him if his work permit was 'the old blue style' or one of 'the new green ones' proudly told me that had managed to get one of the 'new green ones'. Would have been good for him - if they existed Unless he reads this he probably still believes that there is a 'green Work Permit'.

 

Cheers : Admiral Ken

 

I'll have to drop in one day for a beer when I'm down your way. Stay legit and you won't have to keep looking over your shoulder.

[creativemarketing 0]

well im new here but old in thailand and totaly agree.get the papers in order and you never have any problem.Planning to set up office in Pattaya soon and of course i will have in perfect order,licens for every program on all my pc,even get a licens to my music to play radio if its needed.I will not give BIB any reason to ever come and see me, and if they come welcome.

[davethailand 91]

10 and a bit years in i've done everything legally, could i have saved a few quid by not doing it, fuck yes sure but i don't want that on my shoulders as well as not having to worry about being grassed up for not doing things correctly.

At the end of the day a permit for the owner who runs a bar with Thai staff isn't going to break the bank as much as it would have done 5 or more years ago.

Don't risk it and DON'T listen to farangs or thais that "have ways around it.".

Edited July 4, 2012 by davethailand

[xzone nev 79]

10 and a bit years in i've done everything legally, could i have saved a few quid by not doing it, fuck yes sure but i don't want that on my shoulders as well as not having to worry about being grassed up for not doing things correctly.

At the end of the day a permit for the owner who runs a bar with Thai staff isn't going to break the bank as much as it would have done 5 or more years ago.

Don't risk it and DON'T listen to farangs or thais that "have ways around it.".

 

Ok another point of view. Firstly I have all permits and licences and pay my income tax, company tax and vat as required. I also MUST donate to the monthly bib fund. Why you ask because I own a go go, everyone knows that if you do then you will have issues with all correct documentation in place.

 

All girls the correct age all Thai but still must pay. Unlike my resort sure we do not need to pay extra for this business but I do. Why you ask?

 

Ever had a bg fighting with a guest , ever had a guest try and do a runner without paying, ever had a guest get robbed in town and need help, ever had a guest get into an fight with a motorbike taxi over the fare. Now call the bib and check your response time and action and support given. A small ( insurance payment) ensures prompt service and effective action.

 

So bm do not paint all operators who donate some of their hard earnt money as fools, or no goods operators, it really depends on the business you operate to what level of insurance you need to pay for.

 

 

[xzone nev 79]

Also just another point , ever asked a go go girl if she wanted a government social security card and pay half as required by law. If they understand you and they stopping laughing you will get big Mai Ow boss.

[Paul BRS 64]

I did not mention insurance to the BiB, infact maybe I should have included the fact that aside from my previous comments I do "by a drink" fort local bobby, I think it's a given here. Bet to have a friendly copper at the end of a phone when you need him!

 

Also I realized a longtime ago that establishments of the a go go variety will attract more of the unwanted attention regardless if you are a far rang or Thai owner.

 

I sold my share of a company last year but decided to have another go at something thus the thread, starting from scratch is expensive at least for me, everything is taken care of through my lawyer.

 

Paul

[shambley 109]

If not private can someone post the legitimate start up costs and on-running costs of doing it 'right' ?

 

Regards

Shambley

[MM 6,562]

If not private can someone post the legitimate start up costs and on-running costs of doing it 'right' ?

 

Regards

Shambley

 

Good idea!

[Paul BRS 64]

It is not as simple as that as each individual case may be different! i.e. does the farrang have a Non Im 'B' visa. For me I already had the B visa also I had a complication where I had not been resigned correctly from my previous company. Not an issue for me although added more time (money) for the new owner to take me out of the shares and resign my position, which incidently left him liable for the tax on the salary which I was supposedly being paid even after the sale.

 

For a Thai to set up a company the cost could be as low as 5000B. If you as a farrang can trawl your way through all the paper work fine, but for me I chose to have a lawyer take care of it all, even including obtaining the music, tabacco, alchohol and bar setup licenses as this was then done in my new company name. I chose this route due to a bad experience previously.

 

So pick a number! you can probably find "Lawyers" offering to set up company and work permits for as little as 50,000B, in my mind that is too cheap, lets not forget also that its not just the initial setup of the comapny and licenses etc. but then the ongoing costs e.g. VAT, your tax liability, employees, book keeping costs etc. Each employee running at a minimum of around 1800B per month depending on declared salary.

 

In any case for a small bar these costs are high. For me I just wanted peace of mind and no hassle. I am running these business to make a living not to make a fortune! I am sure there are people here with far more experience than myself in this field, I only have 2 small bars and a food place and never more than 10 people employed at any one time. For the larger bars/go go's I couldnt even guesstimate!

 

OH as a PS, I setup the company so I could include my partner/wife as a shareholder. I wanted her to have an investment, and not so as to protect myself so to speak. In my short but eventfull time here I have learnt it is not the Thais for me that you should be cautious of but the farrang business wise ;-)

 

Paul

[xzone nev 79]

The set up cost depends on the business and legal fees but this should be a reasonable guide fir you.

 

Gogo bar

 

Setup company including name and legal 45,000

Insurance 30,000

Bar licence 30,000

Music 15,000

Drink and cigrattes 12,000

 

Monthly costs

Legal. 6000

Personal Tax 4,500

Account fees 4,500

Other costs best not detailed

Social security 12,000 medium size bar.

 

Resorts setup same costs but less insurance only 10,000

Licence fees about same depending on engineering fees.

 

 

These costs are based on my own experience but would need to be checked before committing to much a business. I hope they help

 

[Paul BRS 64]

Can. Confirm I have just come out of the chon buri labor office with my new permit and it is indeed Blue!

[davethailand 91]

Can. Confirm I have just come out of the chon buri labor office with my new permit and it is indeed Blue!

They certainly are, nice one.

:)

[ashboy 22]

 

.. some of these callous falang bar-owners must feel good about themselves cheating their staff out of a few measly baht every month - another reason I stay away from certain bars. From what Larry of Secrets told me his double hip replacement was done for free using the benefits of the 'social card'.

 

 

 

I have nothing but respect for businesses that try new and innovative means of improving the bottom line.