joekicker

Okay, fair enough. Don't mind-read me. Okay? Fair enough? I didn't mention exonerate. I have no idea how you even arrived at that. I wrote what I meant, I meant what I wrote. No interpreation seemed necessary and still doesn't, but IF you want interpretation, you can ask and I may do my best. Fair enough? Okay, then. The only thing I wrote, because it's the only thing I have to say about your aggressively argumentative interpretation of this case of the school girls is that Islam (and Muslims) don't condone the action you claim happened. And wouldn't, even if it did happen that way. Again, I don't know why that has to be interpreted or expanded. You say (the BBC says) twisted old men tried to prevent the girls from escaping the fire. And I said and say that's entirely possible. Twisted old men (ESPECIALLY twisted old men, although not exclusively) are always doing stuff they think God tells them to do. See, that doesn't involve or implicate the religion any more than the American Nazi Party's support implicate nidnoyham's nice "Occupy" protesters in the New York and other parks. The religion (and the protesters) isn't under any obligation to even NOTICE those twisted people who claim to act in their name. Islam can't be exonerated because it's not involved. The Occupy Wall Street mob can't be exonerated from the Nazi support, same thing. The religions are responsible for what they do, of course, Islam included. Oh fer.... You know, for someone who started your post with a finger-pointing lecture about presuming, you sure do a lot of presuming. And I repeat, you are some kind of Olympic-quality leaper - to conclusions. How do you get from here: - I say that Islam is not responsible for school girls trapped in the fire you postulated. to here: - You presume that I don't blame religions for any action in history, ever. Even though I never mentioned this, and you never mentioned this, and you didn't even ASK me about one, several or all such events. You present a specific, one-off story about barbecued school girls, and then my remarks about that unique, partly true story apply to all religions, all the time. How did you do that? Would you not say you are presuming for yourself the right to pass judgement? Just a tiny tad? .

Not all Muslims are Arabs, not all Americans are geopolitically challenged, etc, etc, etc. .

Just a quick update here, as poor old Isan gets it again. This from the morning fishwrap, Wednesday. So your girl MIGHT really be stranded, as of today anyhow. The overflowing Moon River has left 14 out of 20 provinces in the Northeast under water. Lt Gen Thawatchai Samutsakorn, commander of the 2nd Army Region who is responsible for the northeastern region, said the 14 provinces included major trade and tourist hubs, namely Ubon Ratchathani, Nakhon Ratchasima, Buri Ram, Roi Et, Chaiyaphum and Khon Kaen. However, he said the flood situation in those provinces was not as bad as in the Central Plains and northern provinces. Lt Gen Thawatchai said the 2nd Army is fully prepared to carry out flood relief operations in those provinces if necessary. The unit has enough personnel and supplies, he said. Among the flood-hit provinces, Phimai district of Nakhon Ratchasima was most critical after the left wing of the Phimai dam in the district subsided.

Yet another example of extreme, outrageous behaviour, hurried along by outrageous and horrible people. This stuff happens. A long time ago there was a horrible example in New York City of a woman being raped and no one helped her. It makes society sit up straight and wonder and question itself - which is good. All countries are filled with people who would help this kid, including China. But sometimes there's just a terrible, "perfect storm" of things that make a society wonder where it is going, which part of China now will go through, as so many other societies have. There's a thread currently under way that blames this on Islam, but that's as dumb as blaming it on Confucius or on communism. Dreadful, heartbreaking case, this. One hopes for a little justice down the road, let's see if Chinese justice is up to the task. .

Both truck drivers have been arrested, and the person who told the victim's mother that she had been run over was a trash collector. But the trash collector didn't pull her out, not according to China reports anyhow. Of course there are likely to be numerous versions and details as the story emerges In China, people don't rush to the rescue of people - because they're afraid of being charged with the crime. The same is true to a large extent in Thailand - not the same, but similar. If you take someone to the hospital, for example, do NOT stay there but get away fast. For example. .

What I figured. I haven't seen China near the top of the lists of countries promoting medical tourism. I say that as someone who's had acupuncture, but all in all, morphine was better. .

And in general, this is where you're going to be let down, even if you are "hard wired" onto the net with a plug in the back of the machine. The speeds of the DSL-type service that almost everyone has, at home or in the hotel, go up and down - usually because of what others are doing on your "party line" and how many are on with you. The POSSIBLE good news - in Thailand in general, Internet service is way more consistent and often faster at 3am, when most of the country is sleeping. That is good news for those *in* Thailand who work in Yurp and America, on the daylight hours of those countries. Except for that, it's very difficult to be upbeat and optimistic about Internet high-speed or broadband in Thailand, for the fact that it just isn't all that good. There's not enough bandwidth to go around. As Khun Runaround might put it, they're not transmitting the needed bandwidth for all of us. .

Yes but. It's not just "middle class Thais". Pattaya is an itinerant town. Your customers aren't going to come back. Khon Kaen (and everywhere else, really) is NOT a tourist town. I really don't think it's any more complicated than that. It's interesting if Pattaya is getting worse, which some say it is. I don't think it is, not from my view, but I ALWAYS thought that Pattaya was atrocious compared with just about anywhere else, I EXPECT Pattaya to be horrible - and certainly WAY worse than Khon Kaen, which you know so well. I'd add that it's all relative, of course. No matter where you are in the world, you could always get worse. You could always be in Hong Kong! .

You brought religion into this humanity issue. It would be great if you now took it back out and made it a humanity issue, and a legal one of course, since any decent person ALSO hopes justice is delivered here. And there you go again. So why do you keep putting religion into this? I'm the one who said it doesn't involve religion, remember? Quite possible. Very credible from the little I know of the case. So let's just grant that for now, sake of argument and all. You claim their religion somehow.... condones the killings. But it doesn't. NO religion does, or would. And again. Because these creeps say God made them do it, therefore Islam condones it. That's Olympic-class leaping. Why stop there? So, in a way -- it's kind of like God made the pious priests paw the kids and Buddha blessed the Thai cops who chained girls to the bed before the fire and Shiva stands guard for corrupt Indian politicians. The religion is responsible for the actions of its believers. Heh. Believe me, it doesn't. I'm not doubting the badness of a religious policeman or his friends or his village or his carefully raised mob -- not for a second. I've watched "The Stoning of Soraya M." three times. I specifically believe your reports of this fire and killings. Bad things happen, and bad people hurry them along, there's not a shred of doubt about it. I will spare you details of 20 similar instances of horrible, terrible stuff by similar people. There's nothing new under the sun along this line. I presume you've heard of witch burnings? Present day witch burnings, that is? Inquisitions? The Lord's Resistance Army? Roasting widows? Luther and Johnny Htoo? Their religions didn't do any of those and don't do any of those that occur today and tomorrow, either. Including killing school girls. And the religions don't condone them, not one of them. Here's one that is STILL covered up and justified. A Thai queen and her princess-daughter fell into the water. They were left to drown because anyone who touched a royal would be killed. That was FOUR kings ago, in "modern" times. Buddhism was at fault? Some actually say so, but they're wrong. Bad, stupid, evil... take your pick. There is no second religion that condones ANY of this stuff, because there isn't ONE religion in the first place. You were right the second time, and wrong the first and third - it IS a matter of humanity - and of law/justice. Nothing to do with the religion of these sick old men or thousands like them in history and today. It might be just me, of course, but I am curious about the answer to Mr Cheshire's question - if you know if there was any sort of inquiry, any sort of recommendation or action or justice in this case at all? .

I missed that. When was it? .

What did Khun Runaround claim that these transmitters were transmitting? Was he maybe referring to caddywampus convolutors? .

Quite true. I did write that and then think better of it. So. You wouldn't answer the original which you saw and want to kvetch about. You wouldn't answer the edit which you ignore. What's the deal with that? Heh. Well, you're right. You really got me. A true moment of victory, you got me dead to rights. I cannot name a second religion that cheers the killing of children because of their clothes. As I already answered you once, I can't name ANOTHER religion because you can't name ONE, and that's because there isn't one religion in the first place. ("I can't take more" tea, said Alice.) No religion in the world does or might or would tolerate any such thing. There isn't one. So there certainly can't be another one. And so you're right, I can't name ANOTHER one any more than you (or I) can name the second Thai driver killed in Sunday's Indy race in the US. .

Funny though. Made me guffaw loudly, scaring the damned dog. .

Er. Yes. That was my point. Pattaya isn't much like them. Or like Bangkok. Or getting closer to being like Bangkok. .

Now there's a weird idea. In what way(s) is Pattaya like Bangkok? As the little one said above, Pattaya is about as much like Bangkok as it is like Los Angeles or London or Lima. If there were REAL travel regulations, you'd need a visa to go from Thailand to Pattaya. .

Good news: There are lots of them. Bad news: None of them is in Thailand. Most hotels have the same Internet speed as all the others. Mostly it is not all that fast. .

Breasts on her face? That does sound ugl... well, kinky maybe?? .

Another wac prediction! You are unerring. .

Another? You can't even name one, not with your silly "today" stricture. Why did you put that on? You need to get a grip on the difference between religion and society. Example: You appear from your posts not to realise that Jews wear the burqa. Well... - kind of like Muslims, some Jews. .

You may have heard that police in Thailand are sometimes involved in illegal pursuits. That includes brothels, and it involved this brothel, as legal proceedings later showed conclusively. It turned out all of them were religious and supposedly pious Buddhists -- as it so often does turn out in Thailand. For the record, I do not believe for a New York millisecond that there is cause and effect. But really, after the third reference, don't you feel you should research it a bit yourself if you want the full, in-depth story? .

Thanks for the link. Floods do provide good pics, sigh! Poor Ayutthaya and the people there. Speaking of pics, these used to be new Hondas, ready for export: .

Was that hard? Think of doing that next time, too, instead of insinuating and alleging what I (or any other poster) writes. So. Having quoted that, at last, are you going to discuss it now? There have been worse floods in the past few years. Any view on that? Some people probably don't agree. How about you? .

You've been proved wrong on this before. There were TWO threads that proved you wrong. Let's not start this nonsense again. Muslims are integrated in many places. It's a fact. You admitted it. Now let's move on. You can't prove that ALL Muslims do something in ALL places by presenting anecdotes about what SOME Muslims do in SOME places. We settled this. Open your mind, you were wrong in this particular claim. Let's not replay the whole gory episode for the third time. .

Yes. In fact they DIRECTLY were involved. .

Thais and New Yorkers. They really are the best in a bad situation. I'll keep an eye out for information on banks' relief, jacko. I saw a very general story a couple, four weeks ago, when the floods were bad in Isan and the North, didn't retain much of it. There'll be more, though. .