Evil Penevil

I will. March 15 to March 27. Evil

OK. I should have written, "The busts of Iranians have almost always taken place at Swampy or other points of entry," or even, "The busts of Iranians have taken place at Swampy or other points of entry, except in a few cases." But it doesn't change the fact that Iranians aren't usually street dealers. And contrary to what you've written, the NSB considers West Africans to be heavily involved in drug dealing and the area around Suk Soi 3 to be an area of significant concern regarding the drug trade. Evil

You read the article I cited very selectively. In the Dec. 30 raid on Suk Soi 3 in BKK, the police detained 80 people. Of them, three were arrested on drug charges and six were arrested on immigration charges. So over 10% of those questioned were arrested, which is a good result for a street sweep. As I stated in an earlier post, the goal of a street sweep isn't to seize large quantities of drugs but to disrupt the pattern of street dealing and to deny buyers and sellers a safe haven. The exact nationality of those arrested isn't important, but the article said they were all West Africans. Likewise, it doesn't matter whether those arrested in 1995 or 2010 and the years in between are dealers or users. They are all violating Thai law and are part of the drug trade. Many users are dealers and many dealers are users. The screen shot you posted is part of an article from Asia Times Online. The authors aren't based in Thailand, nor do they cite any NSB officials directly. If you read what NSB leaders have said elsewhere, it doesn't sound like they are downplaying the role of West Africans in the drug trade in Bangkok. Here's what NSB officials told the Bangkok Post (my bold text): Pol Maj Gen Sangsuraya of the NSB said the West Africans stick together and were the best organised of the foreign drug gangs in Thailand.[/b] "At the moment, we are mainly focused on them because they are the biggest group of foreigners representing the biggest problem for us. They use Thailand as a base to sell drugs. If we raid certain areas too often then they disperse and find a new place. Pol Col Chatchai said Soi 3 had become a West African community, with several hundred often gathering in one place which made it ''very difficult'' to arrest them with drugs. ''We have to use immigration laws to arrest them even when we know they are selling drugs, this is very frustrating.'' Col Chatchai said the NSB conducted a raid on Dec 24 in Soi On Nut 44 where many West Africans live. ''We found a quantity of ice and cocaine hidden in one room but couldn't arrest the tenant because he jumped through a window on the third floor and escaped. We also found in the room condoms filled with ice which drug smugglers would swallow. We were unable to arrest people on drug charges because of a lack of evidence but could do so on various immigration violations instead. ''We conducted several other raids against the West Africans last year, one in the Pratunam area where many of them live, and two in Soi 3.'' From what NSB officials have said themselves, they are focused on West Africans and Soi 3 as well as the Iranian smugglers. Evil

Street-level drug dealers, pimps and scammers seldom want their pictures taken. I'm not interested in taking pictures of the ones who aren't involved in illegal activities. I'll take my chances. That would be great! Pictures of the guys from Liberia, Sierra Leone and Somalia would be most appreciated. I have to agree - pics of Nigerian drug dealers are a bit passe. But it's regrettable that it is found so openly on Soi 3-5. It proves that Nigerians are extremely over-represented in terms of criminal activity in Thailand. But I agree that they are no longer the only criminal group operating around Soi 3-5. They have been supplanted to some extent by the ex-militia guys from Liberia and Sierra Leone. I know you didn't answer, so I'll ask again - Do Africans account for 80% of the non-Asian foreigners currently in prison in Thailand? Are 85% of the West Africans in BKK involved in drug dealing? No doubt the Iranians are heavily involved in smuggling ICE, but they aren't street dealers. The busts of Iranians have taken place at Swampy or other points of entry. The street-level distribution of various drugs (not just ICE) in the Soi 3-5 area is still in the hands of Africans. It's two different aspects of the broader drug problem. And Africans are involved in other types of criminality as well - the street scams, pimping, trafficking, strong-arm stuff, etc. Evil

I'll definitely be smiling when I get photos of some of those guys. I don't think they will be as happy. It more the sales of hard drugs, human trafficking and intimidation that are the problem. It has every relevance. It proves West African gangs have had a significant presence in BKK for at least 15 years. What conclusion do you draw from the repatriation of 340 Nigerian prisoners in one day? Are you saying that Thailand had a huge problem with West African drug dealers in the 1990s but no longer does? Do you deny the estimate that 80% of the non-Asian foreigners currently in Thai prisons are from Africa? Evil

There'a big difference between "hanging out" and "checking out." The advice to avoid the area mainly concerns late night or very early morning, especially if a BM has been drinking. I plan to go on a night-time photo safari in the area, but that will take a bit of planning and backup. Some of the bigger game within the Soi 3-5 reserve are very camera shy. All major urban areas in every part of the world have "hot blocks" that are dominated by criminal gangs. Suk Soi 3-5 is a "hot block" area that is dominated by West African gangs. Often barber shops, restaurants, bars, and convenience stores provide a front or cover for illegal activities, whether drugs; prostitution; sales of stolen goods; frauds and scams; or gambling. Certainly not every single individual who passes through the area, especially during the day, is directly involved in illegal activity. But the overwhelming majority of those who spend considerable time in such areas are looking either to buy or sell something that's against the law. What is without question is that Nigerians are disporportionately represented in criminal activity in Thailand. Supposedly there are people from 56 different countries in one prison alone in Bangkok. No doubt scammers and other criminals of many nationalities visit Thailand, but a much higher number of Nigerians commit crimes in relation to the total number of Nigerains who visit the Kingdom than is the case for Europeans, Australians or North Americans. According to a chart on the Web site of the Thai Department of Corrections, 710 prisoners have been transferred back to their home countries to serve out sentences for crimes committed in Thailand. About 55.6%, or 395, come from Nigeria. The remainder (315) come from 17 other countries. However, Nigeria accounts for less than 0.5% of the total foreign visitors to Thailand. France ------------------29 Spain--------------------33 Canada -----------------17 Italy-----------------------7 United States----------76 Sweden-----------------14 United Kingdom--------28 Germany-----------------18 Austria --------------------2 Israel ----------------------3 Denmark ------------------3 Hong Kong --------------68 Switzerland---------------6 Norway--------------------1 Estonia -------------------5 Czech Republic-------------2 Nigeria-------------------395 Australia--------------------3 TOTAL -------------------710 But the chart doesn't tell the whole story. The U.S. and Thailand have been repatriating prisoners since 1982, so 76 American criminals have been transferred back to the U.S over 28 years. Nigeria and Thailand have only repatriated prisoners since 2003 and 395 have been sent back in those years. Plus a much, much higher number of U.S. citizens (and citizens of the U.K., Australia, Canada, Sweden, Hong Kong, etc.) visit Thailand each year than from Nigeria. But to be conclusive, we'd need to know how many Nigerians have been convicted of crimes in Thailand compared with the number of Europeans, North Americans, Australians, etc. I don't know of any site that has that kind of breakdown. What I've heard from a Thai official is that 80% of the non-Asian foreigners in Thai prisons are from Africa. Does all this prove that all West Africans are bad? Of course it doesn't. But it does prove that Thailand is targeted by West African gangs and that criminals make up a much higher percentage of all West Africans who visit Thailand than visitors from other countries. And a lot of that 85% hang around Suk Soi 3-5. Evil

The patients at Bumrungrad are getting medical treatment; the guys hanging out on Suk Soi 3-5 are selling illegal drugs or running other scams. But I"m not the only one who's seen a heavy concentration of pushers around Suk Soi 3-5. Here's what Chatchai Sirisabphya from the Narcotics Suppression Bureau said about the situation around Suk Soi 3 a year ago in the Bangkok Post. ''The suppression of the West African drug syndicates in Bangkok and in other parts of Thailand is one of our top priorities. We tackle the problem head-on on several fronts every day,'' said Pol Col Chatchai, who is in charge of the Bangkok Metropolitan area. ''However, despite all-out efforts their drug-related activities are increasing. They import cocaine and ice from Latin America and other countries and sell it here.'' ... He estimated there were several hundred people from West African countries involved in the illicit drug trade in Bangkok in well-organised gangs. ... ''They will leave their apartment at night and get together on Sukhumvit Road sois 3, 4, 5 or at Pratunam area. These people will never live there, or just come for business,'' Pol Col Chatchai said. In an article a year later about the raid on Suk Soi 3, the same Pol Col Chatchai said: "The pushers hang around the surrounding lanes all day and night." Evil Some photos I took on Suk Soi 5: ____

The following list is based on statistics from the Web site of the Thai Office of Tourism. It covers tourist arrivals in Thailand by nationality in December 2010. There were more arrivals from the U.K. (88,095) than from Australia (81,205) and the U.S. (70,774). Evil International Tourist Arrivals in Thailand December 2010 Malaysia___ 213,247 China______132,776 India_______100,811 Russia_______97,804 Japan______ _97,905 Korea________92,072 U. K._________88,095 Australia______81,205 Laos_________79,840 Germany______72,748 U. S. A._______70,774 Singapore_____ 65,537 Middle East____ 60,454

Just out of curiosity - has anyone talked to one of the scammers? What's their angle? I read on another board that two will approach a tourist and ask if he wants to buy a gold coin. They'll try to hand the coin to the tourist, who may or may not actually handle it. They'll ask 5,000 or 10,000 baht for the coin, which of course not even a fool would consider. Here's where the scam comes - they will let the tourist get a few steps away, then claim the tourist hasn't given them the coin back. Since he can't produce, they will demand money. At that point, five or six other guys suddenly appear and start threatening the tourist. Usually that is enough for the tourist to hand over whatever cash he has. It's a common scam with many variations. It's done a lot in the U.S. in neighborhoods where certain ethnic groups dominant and an outsider wanders in by mistake. Sometimes a ring or watch is offered instead of a coin. Sometimes the scammer will bump into the mark and drop a bag containing a bottle. He'll then claim there had been expensive booze or medicine in the bottle that got broken and demand compensation. Again, a crowd forms quickly to press the demand for money. Best advice - until either Thai cops or moto drivers clean up the infestations around Suk Soi 3-5, it's best to avoid the area, especially at night, if you are farang, Evil

The phrase "black man" can include men from many different countries. There are some "black men" working at the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok who are definitely not drug dealers - in fact, quite the opposite. But if you see a black man from Africa who is hanging out on the street corners around Suk Soi 3-5, especially late at night, there is a reasonable basis to suspect he is involved in drugs or other illegal activity. If you see a black man from Africa who is working as a doctor in a hospital in Bangkok or lecturing at a university or working in the office of a multi-national corporation, it is reasonable to assume he isn't a drug dealer. But I doubt you'll find many African medical doctors, professors or business executives who hang out all night on Suk Soi 3-5 accosting passers-by. Evil

There are different gangs trying to establish themselves around Suk Soi 3-5. The Nigerians have been involved in street-level dealing for years, but pretty much held to the sub-sois. The Liberian and Sierra Leone ex-militia guys are relative newcomers but have a more visible presence, except on very dark nights. Evil

The purpose of street sweeps like the one in Bangkok is not so much to seize illegal drugs but to disrupt trading and to deprive both buyers and selling of a safe haven. Street-level dealing by its nature involves small amounts of dope. But the effect on the neighborhoods where this trade takes place is always negative. Drive away the pushers and their customers and you start to reclaim the streets. Evil

The authorities need to keep up the pressure. If the police make nightly sweeps, the pushers, pimps and scammers will move on. They have a much harder time operating without a base area. Evil

It took them awhile, but it looks like the crackdown is underway: Bangkok Post article. And some photos from the article/video: _____

Joking about extreme forms of Islamism is not racism, any more than joking about fundamentalist Christians, Buddhists, Jews or Hindus would be racism. But on the practical level, it's hard to come up with jokes about Christian or Buddhist suicide bombers. For it to be funny, humor has to be anchored in reality. Evil

Two more: To save money, a town government in the U.S. outsourced its Suicide Help Line to Pakistan. The first time a town resident called the line and said he felt like committing suicide, the operator got all excited and asked him if he knew how to drive a truck. Two Palestinian mothers are watching their pre-school children on a playground on the Gaza Strip. "You really have to appreciate them while they're young," one said to the other. "They blow up so quickly nowadays." Evil

Thank you for your answer. Also, does anyone know if Mickey's Bar has undergone a change in ownership in the past two years? How about the other bars in the "center strip" at New Plaza? Evil

Does she freelance in one particular bar at New Plaza or does she move between several? Is it freelancing a la Pattaya Beer Garden (no bar fine) or is a "take away" fee payable to the bar? Evil

Does anyone know what the pricing structure for the ladies' services at Mickey's or Puy's? Is it the standard 300-baht bar fine, 500 baht S/T and 1,000 baht L/T? Evil

Some of the photos were taken at the end of October and some in very early November (the sign for the party says 04 Nov). Theyweren't all taken on the same night. Four were taken in April. Once again - if you enjoy New Plaza, by all means go there. If you don't enjoy it, give it a miss. There is no right or wrong when it comes to personal preferences in bars. Evil

I didn't say or imply that I have just taken them - that would be absurd. I live in New York City and my last visit to Pattaya was in late October - early November. Most of the pics were taken then, but the daylight pics of Puy's were taken in April. Has New Plaza changed much in the past two months (or eight months)? Evil

No, you're confusing it with Peter at Narin Couture in Bangkok. Evil

------ New Plaza is a beer bar complex no better or worse than a dozen others in Pattaya. I figured most of the posts on New Plaza were simply wind-ups, good-natured or not. But leaving that aside, there isn't much reason to dwell on New Plaza. Those who by choice or necessity think it important to drink in a bar that sells beer at 35 baht a bottle may decide to visit New Plaza - there is little reason for anyone else to do so. New Plaza doesn't offer much beyond cheap booze and it certainly doesn't have a monopoly of 35-baht bottled beer. Small bars all over Pattaya sell beer at that price, Nor is true that 35-baht beer is a magic answer to filling seats. From what I've seen, Mickey's Bar sometimes has decent crowds, Puy's has a few customers, but all the others are nearly empty. The customers at New Plaza mostly (but by no means exclusively) seem to be elderly guys drinking themselves to death on their pensions. Nothing strange about that, you see alcoholics slowly dying of cirrhosis of the liver in bars all over Pattaya. But to suggest that dive bars that cater mainly to down-and-outers somehow provide a model for rejuvenating Pattaya by "giving punters what they want" is absurd. Anyway, I visited the belly of the beast and took the pictures below. If it's your kind of place, have fun! But I don't think New Plaza will be replacing Soi7/Soi 8 anytime soon, much less LK Metro or WS. Let me emphasize that I have nothing against New Plaza. If any member of this board enjoys the NP bars, that's great, but they don't hold much attraction for me. It's not a matter of NP being good or bad, it's just personal preference. What's wrong is the claim that the NP "model" will somehow sweep across Pattaya because of beer at 35 baht a bottle. Cheap booze in and of itself is no guarantee of success. There are dozens of bars in Pattaya that sell beer at that price. Some have a lot of regular customers, others don't - exactly like beer bars, indoor bars and gogos that sell beer at higher prices. I got into the spirit of things at Mickey's and ordered a 120-baht meal. It came from Mickey's restaurant across the Soi and took 45 minutes to arrive. Not too bad, it reminded me of the food in the chain restaurants along the M1 motorway in the 1980s. At least my meal had been properly warmed in the microwave. ------- _____ The picture that literally says it all. Evil

And a Happy New Year to Sybarite-Arno-Cousin-Myrrh-Upharsin-IMHO, whatever handle you are currently using. Evil

The first time I heard of Thailand as a P4P paradise was in Playboy magazine back in the 1970's. The article about exotic P4P spots had a line I never forgot: "If you can't get laid out of the coffee shop at the Grace Hotel, you can't get laid anywhere in the world." While I working in Taipei in 1979, I met a lot of U.S. ex-military who told me more about Bangkok and Pattaya. I decided to pay Thailand a visit and my first trip was in September of 1979. Evil