Gun ownership in Thailand

[jackcorbett 2]

I understand that Thailand is pretty hostile about gun ownership particularly if they are owned by non Thais. I used to write a gun article month for a small magazine here in the U.S. and simply like guns even though I don't hunt anymore and don't go around armed. I am wondering whether or not one is allowed to sell several guns to a corporation that is majority Thai owned, then lease them back while keeping them securly locked in a heavy safe. First....is this legal under Thai Law? Also, would one be unduly risking the ire of the authorities? We are assuming that one was not trying to hide what he is doing here but at the same time is being very discrete by not showing the firearms off to his Thai girlfriends, waving them around at parties, etc.

[Dennism 3]

This is an interesting question.

 

How about for the purpose of hunting wild game, are rifles permitted?

[wombat 5]

How about for the purpose of hunting wild game,

hang on...TiT.......we are the game......are you game?..................

[ting_tong 63]

Thai owned, then lease them back

I like this idea

 

be werry werry quiet, Im hunting _ _ _ & _ _ _ _ _ uh uh uh uh

[laffnliv 78]

First, consult a Thai lawyer. Then think about it....real hard. You have a gun. You are a farang. No matter what happens you are wrong! Don't do it!

Roy

[wombat 5]

 

http://www.toonopedia.com/elmer.htm

[jackcorbett 2]

Roy........I appreciate your reply that as a farang I would be wrong no matter what. Let me mention where I'm coming from and what I have in mind....if this is prudent that is.

 

 

The types of guns I have in mind are not hideout guns. I would never go out with any of them and they would always be locked up in some form of safe. THe contents of this safe would never be available to anyone but myself and this would include any girlfriends I might have.

 

I like guns, pure and simple. And here in the U.S. I often go out into areas some might consider to be unsafe. Nevertheless, I never go into these areas armed. I do go to shooting ranges however.

 

So if I could prudently transfer say five or six of my guns to a THai majority owned corporation managed by myself without incurring the wrath of the authorities and risk deportation for keeping them securely locked in a heavy safe I would want to do so.

 

I grew up in the country. On my birthdays and at Christmas my Dad would once in awhile get me a pistol or rifle beginning with pellet guns when I was pretty young. So a love amounting to reverence for guns was instilled in me at an early age. By the time I was 12 I wanted a Springfield 03 rifle so bad I could taste it. A doctor living across the golf course had one hidden under his bed but when he was not home his son and I would take it out and look at it. It was kept unloaded by the way. When I was 12 I worked all summer and very hard, outdoors. I pulled weeds out of bean fields, I helped clean cisterns out and helped put new roofs on small buildings and at the end of the summer I had fifty dollars which I used to buy a pristine 1943 Springfield 03-A3 rifle from a local police officer. Keep in mind most boys won't even buy a .22 at 12. But I had to buy a 30-06 which fired shells 3 inches long which had a sharp kick to it, especially for someone who was 12. But I could handle its recoil even then. I still have that rifle.

 

I also want to mention that I am a History Major even though I received my liberal arts degree many years ago. But both before and after getting the degree I"ve maintained a strong interest in History and the role that weapons have played. When I was 12 I finished for example "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" which was around 1000 pages long and by the time I was 13 I think I had already read over 30 books on the American Civil War. But recently, during the past three years I've written gun articles for something like 18 months straight for of all things, an adult American East Coast Magazine. I'd choose whichever model I liked and a weapon which I deemed was Historically significant, then shoot the pictures of the model and write up the article while trying hard to explain not just how the weapon performed or worked but why it was historically important.

 

I would just like to keep a few guns around which I could once in awhile take out and look. So I am wondering if I could do this without getting into trouble with the Thai authorities if I went the corporate route. I think one needs 51 % Thai ownership and at least 7 Thai stockholders. The guns, if I could transfer them, would be kept under lock and key. I would not want to hide what I was doing from the authorities either.

[laffnliv 78]

Jack, all that is interesting.....but....

I will repeat what I told you before. Talk to a THAI lawyer. I will predict that he will tell you that you cannot bring in guns, and that you cannot set up a corporation to own the guns. I'm sorry I am so negative here, but I firmly believe that is the way it is.

Maybe it all sounds illogical to you, but this is Thailand...and it ain't the same as your home country.

By the way, if you had guns in Thailand, legal or otherwise, you are going to suffer a burglary or robbery. Thats the way it is here, Jack.

Damn! I don't recall ever being so negative! Sorry, but.....

Roy

[Skytrooper 0]

I've tried to avoid posting to this thread, but laffnliv's twaddle is just too much to endure.

 

jackcorbett,

 

If you do a Google search using the key words "Thailand firearms importation" you will get 5,390 entries pertaining to this subject. I just read through the first ten, all of which (predictably) contradict laffnliv. The Tourism Authority of Thailand's website says, "Importation of firearms and ammunition can be done only after a permit has been obtained from the Police Department or the Local Registration Office." A Thai Customs website mentions that firearms and ammunition owned by tourists "may be brought in free of duty." At least once in my memory, the IPSC World Championships were held in Thailand by private citizens bringing in their personally-owned handguns and ammunition.

 

I'm sure if you do a Google search using different key words, you'll find plenty of information relating to the possession and ownership of firearms inside Thailand, beyond the mere importation details.

 

Originally posted by jackcorbett:

And here in the U.S. I often go out into areas some might consider to be unsafe. Nevertheless, I never go into these areas armed.

 

I'm sure the criminals in your area appreciate your enlightened opinion on victim disarmament.

 

Originally posted by laffnliv:

Damn! I don't recall ever being so negative!

 

Allow me to refresh your memory. The last time you were so negative occurred on December 8, 2004 at 02:36 AM in the Off Topic and General Chat forum.

 

BTW, none of the ex-pats I know living in Thailand and owning firearms there have ever been the victim of a burglary or robbery. But then I'm confident that we don't have the same friends.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

 

We must confine ourselves to the powers described in the Constitution, and the moment we pass it, we take an arbitrary stride towards a despotic Government. — James Jackson, first U.S. Congress

 

The great object is that every man be armed... Everyone who is able may have a gun. — Patrick Henry, 1788

[M1903 0]

Jack

 

No way. I am a big gun collector. I own at least 60, probably more, mostly WW1 and WW2 era and alot of modern ones too.

 

I work in a very dangerous neighboorhood and carry a Colt .45 Combat Elite in my care with Baretta Tomcat (.32) for a back-up and a Chicom SKS in my trunk. I am not a dumb redneck. I have two garduate degress and a great job and drive a silver-grey Saturn, not a pick-up. Nor do I listen to country music but jazz and classical.

 

You have no need for a gun in Thailand except for hunting and target practice. Why do that there. It is much cheaper here in the US. As a farang you are very very safe in LOS. If you really need a weapon, but a knife or slap-jack on Sukhumvit.

[wombat 5]

.

 

I carry a Colt .45 Combat Elite in my care with Baretta Tomcat (.32) for a back-up and a Chicom SKS in my trunk.

and thats just to pick up a pizza.....?........................

[sinbinjack 251]

keep your guns in america, I for one am fed up with your right to bear arms nonsence keep them out of thailandand everywhere else so I can walk the streets in safety and not get shot by some HONEST citizen who thinks im going to kill him just cause i look like a villan.I live in England and our police are not armed and we get by quite well without guns thank you

sinbinjack

[JohnnyK 28]

keep your guns in america, I for one am fed up with your right to bear arms nonsence keep them out of thailandand everywhere else so I can walk the streets in safety and not get shot by some HONEST citizen who thinks im going to kill him just cause i look like a villan.I live in England and our police are not armed and we get by quite well without guns thank you

sinbinjack

Here it comes...

[Skytrooper 0]

Originally posted by M1903:

Jack

 

No way. I am a big gun collector. I own at least 60, probably more, mostly WW1 and WW2 era and alot of modern ones too.

 

I work in a very dangerous neighboorhood and carry a Colt .45 Combat Elite in my care with Baretta Tomcat (.32) for a back-up and a Chicom SKS in my trunk. I am not a dumb redneck. I have two garduate degress and a great job and drive a silver-grey Saturn, not a pick-up. Nor do I listen to country music but jazz and classical.

 

You have no need for a gun in Thailand except for hunting and target practice. Why do that there. It is much cheaper here in the US. As a farang you are very very safe in LOS. If you really need a weapon, but a knife or slap-jack on Sukhumvit.

 

1. It’s “neighborhood,†not “neighboorhood.†It’s “Beretta,†not “Baretta.†It’s “graduate,†not “garduate.†It’s “degrees,†not “degress.†It's "buy," not "but." Let’s see if I understand this right. You have two graduate degrees yet exhibit worse spelling and punctuation than many third graders. Those must have been some university graduate schools you attended. I trust your “great job†isn’t teaching English.

 

2. I have no idea whether you’re a redneck or not, but willingly carrying a .32 ACP for a “back up†pistol is one notch less “dumb†than packing a .25 ACP. You can afford a Saturn, but you keep a Chicom SKS in the trunk. Hmmm.

 

3. “You have no need for a gun ... except for hunting and target practice.†Sarah Brady, Dianne Feinstein, Charles Schumer ... allow me to introduce M1903. He shares your amoral political beliefs.

 

Originally posted by sinbinjack:

keep your guns in america, I for one am fed up with your right to bear arms nonsence keep them out of thailandand everywhere else so I can walk the streets in safety and not get shot by some HONEST citizen who thinks im going to kill him just cause i look like a villan.I live in England and our police are not armed and we get by quite well without guns thank you

sinbinjack

 

1. I’ve previously refuted such pusillanimous twaddle already in the Off Topic and General Chat forum in the Member’s Only board and, for the sake of brevity and JohnnyK’s nerves, will not repeat most of it here.

 

2. Your illusion of safety under the UK’s oppressive anti-freedom laws is contradicted by objective reality and your own government’s artfully crafted crime statistics. “Hot†burglary rates in the UK have skyrocketed under your victim disarmament laws and are much higher than in the USA. BTW, many English police carry guns, far more than decades ago when decent Britons were "allowed" to possess arms for their own self-preservation.

 

3. Kindly do not beg American gun owners to send their privately-held firearms to equip the docilely unarmed English populace as you blokes did in 1940. In the future, live with the consequences of your own stupidity and learn German, Russian, or whatever language your conquerors speak.

 

4. I’ve never been able to fathom why anyone with three or more functioning brain cells thinks they’re safer due to laws which render them unarmed and helpless, but then none of my degrees are in Abnormal Psychology. BTW, what is a “villanâ€[sic] and what does one “look like?†Evidently you attended the same schools as M1903.

 

5. Yes, millions of us in America will "keep our guns." In doing so, we'll retain some vestige of individual liberty. Something you cretins across the pond abandoned long ago.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave. — Andrew Fletcher, 1698

 

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. — William Pitt, before the House of Commons, 18 November 1783.

 

The power of the sword, say the minority of Pennsylvania, is in the hands of Congress. My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for THE POWERS OF THE SWORD ARE IN THE HANDS OF THE YEOMANRY OF AMERICA FROM SIXTEEN TO SIXTY. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared to any possible army must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are these militia? [A]re they not our selves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American .... [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. — Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, February 20, 1788.

 

The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. — Thomas Jefferson

[Babepecker 0]

jackcorbett,

I read your posts and it is still not clear to me:

for what purpose, exactly, would you like to bring 5-6 guns to Thailand?

 

 

 

Skytrooper,

individual liberty begins and ends in a person's mind - not with the purchase and/or sale of a firearm/gun, IMO. :D

 

Btw, to most 'Westerners/Farang' that old line "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose" is applicable - as everyone feels that there is a lot to lose (it is in one's mind, remember ) if they really try to exercise their freedom(s).

 

 

[Skytrooper 0]

Babepecker,

 

Liberty is the political condition of personal freedom. Your notion I enjoyed "liberty within my mind" while being confined in a cage in a federal gulag for over five years for having exercised my unalienable individual rights of unhindered political speech and possession of arms is absurd, even for you.

 

When accosted by vicious hoodlums, whether the private variety or government goons, you may choose to be unarmed and helpless ... I do not.

________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. — Cesare Beccaria

 

... arms ... discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.... Horrid mischief would ensue were [decent people] deprived the use of them. — Thomas Paine

 

We find it perplexing that there are people who do not realize that a right may be neither granted nor withdrawn by the State. If the Bill of Rights were repealed, the right to keep and bear arms would still exist, since it was to defend that right that the Constitution was established. (See the Declaration of Independence.) Thus the state may destroy me, but it may not rescind my right to self-defense. This all seems pretty clear, but frequently I find people who do not understand it. — Jeff Cooper, LTC, USMC (Ret).

[jackcorbett 2]

Well guys, I think some of you have it wrong when it comes to why I would like to keep a handful of firearms in Thailand. First off, I live in the St. Louis Metro East. One of my favorite place to have a few beers is in East St. Louis, a municipality known for crime. Example in Point, if you've ever seen the movie "Vacation" starring Chevy Chase, the scene is in East St. Louis in which the cars wheels are stripped. Yet, I do not go armed for two reasons. 1. If I am drinking my judgement is likely to impaired so I don't want to even take the chance of shooting someone in the possibly mistaken belief I am being threatened. Number 2. I don't wish to be stopped by the police, who might find a weapon in the car which will then increase the chances of their slapping me with a DUI.

 

I do not propose to go armed in Thailand. If I were allowed to keep firearms there I would keep them safely locked in a gun safe out of reach of bar girls unfamiliar with weapons handling who might accidentally injure or kill someone. I simply have a deep reverence for firearms starting when I was less than 10. Then when I was 12 I worked hard outdoors all summer long to scrape up fifty dollars to buy a WWII Springfield 03-A3 30-06. Then in the past four years I've been writing for adult magazines here in the U.S. often supplying all photography for my articles. For something like 15 issues straight I wrote a gun article for Xtreme Magazine on the weapon of my choice. For each article I chose a model who worked as either a house dancer (stripper) or feature entertainer and shot the pictures of her with a Nikon D-1 X. I chose for the most part what I considered to be Historically significant weapons--eg. the Browning 50 caliber machine gun, Uzi, the AK-47, the M-1, the Springfield 1861 Civil War rifle, the Colt .45 Peacemaker, the Mauser 98, the Thompson submachine gun, the M-1 Carbine, SKS, M-16, PPK, .1911 .45 automatic, etc. In my articles I attempted to blend History with the weapon I was reviewing and often included my perceptions of the girl.

 

I could never have been successful in writing these articles if it were not for my love of History (I was a History Major, taught school for a year, and ultimately got a Masters Degree). And whether some people like it or not, firearms were a central part of American History for better or worse. My writing gun articles for Xtreme eventually culminated in the owner of Xtreme, my editor, and a gun owner who supplied some of the weapons I wrote about and I combining to design, produce and sell the 2004 Xtreme Weapons calendar which I have been selling on my web site at http://www.alphapro.com (you can still buy it there although I advise you not to since it's a 2004 calendar).

 

Because of my love of History I would want to keep a handful of firearms just as I would want to keep the old roll top desk my father used and his father before him, my book collection, or the 1865 Union Cavalry saber used in the American Civil War. As far as keeping them for self defense I'd say there would be a far better chance of a Thai bar girl accidentally hurting someone with one of my guns than my ever using it to shoot someone who was actually threatening my life.--if I did not keep them locked away in a safe that is.

 

Okay--Now you know why and how I would want to keep firearms in Thailand. Let me now address some of the anti gun statements that have been made here that categorically state that no guns should be allowed in any circumstances in the hands of the citizenry of a given nation.

 

I lived on a farm for over twenty years. I would like to know where the law was that would protect me or my family while I was living on the farm. Once while my nephew was visiting us at the farm, my nephew and my step son who were around twelve or thirteen then went down to the farm pond which was just off the interstate but two miles from the farm house. Older boys came onto the property to swim in the pond. They were around 18. They pulled a knife on the younger boys and chased them from the pond. When my wife came the boys laughed at her. Finally I wound up driving past. My wife drove up to me in her vehicle to tell me what had happened. I happened to have a mini 14 in the pickup. At first I yelled at the boys who by this time were hiding under a raft in the middle of the pond. They did not come out, ignoring me when I told them to come out of the water. I then took the Mini 14 out of the pickup and shot into the air. Since the blast of a .223 cartridge is rather loud, the boys became frightened and started to swim to the dock where I was standing. At this point I put the gun away in my pickup and told the boys I was not threatening them with it but if they tried to come out of the water, I would quickly retrieve the rifle from my pickup and shoot the tires on their vehicle to pieces. Now that got their atttention. My wife then called the sheriff. His deputy arrived 30 minutes later. Meanwhile I calmly talked to the boys who by this time had swum up to the raft.

 

A few months later one of the boys went to the penitentiary for raping a 16 year old girl.

 

In the same general time period a gas station attendant was shot in the head around six o'clock in the morning. This was just half a mile from one of the farms I farmed. No one knows why his killer shot him and to this day no one knows who killed the man.

 

In the opposite direction five miles from where we lived another man was shot in the head at the Farmersville Shell Station. The man used to change the oil of my car. Farmersville is a small town with a population of just 600. Two men had come into the gas station where they shot the other attendant in the throat. When Greg heard the report of the gun, he came out of the office and was promptly killed. the other man survived his throat wound. Meanwhile there was a woman pumping gas into her car. When she heard the gunfire she drove off. The two killers followed her in their car. When she got twenty miles up the highway the state highway patrol stopped the murderers who were stilll following her. She had used her cell phone to call the police.

 

What I want to know is "would my family and I have slept better had the U.S. government stripped me of my right to bear arms" while we were all living on a relatively isolated farm 30 minutes from the nearest police or deputy?

[sinbinjack 251]

I have no intention of stoping you as an american in america from having a gun ( I think it counterproductive)but I do not like it when you or others wish to export these gun laws to the rest of the world.

Skytrooper As for your "STUPID" referal to the 2nd world war and lend lease I leave that to your own countrymen to explain to you

sinbinjack

[jackcorbett 2]

I think what is appropriate or even necessary in the U.S. particularly on the farm is not appropriate in Thailand. I would probably agree with you that the idea of having a lot of Americans, Brits, or whomever running around Pattaya's beer bars with either concealed or not concealed weapons is scary. But imagine yourself living on a farm. You are out on the tractor alone, working 15 hour days and nights--sometimes even more. And when you go home, the nearest house is nearly a kilometer from you. THe night is upon you. You spie a coyote who is watching you drive your tractor up and down the field. You think, at least something is interested in what I am diong out here. Then you think about how crazy a lot of people are. Men have been shot and killed not far from you in both directions. Drug dealers routinely head out into the country to siphon off Nitrogen from farmers' anhyrhous ammonia tanks so they can use this to manufacture Crystal Meth. But on the console in front of you there is a loded .357 magnum revolver or a .45 automatic and you feel safe.

 

I also want to mention that for a farmer a gun is a tool as well as a means of vital self protection. If someone wanted to rob me at the apartment I am presently living in I could get to the intruder with a machete or bowie knife, samurai sword, etc. Sure, a gun would be more comforting, but I think the edged weapon would make me feel comfortable enough because of the confined close quarters of the apartment. But the edged weapon would not do at the farm. There one has to figure that anyone wanting to rob a man's house or kill his family would have a gun, possibly a shotgun or semi automatic high powered rifle. So a knife or sword simply would not do.

 

Here at the apartmentI would not need a gun as a tool. On the farm I've been called upon to shoot and kill a hog that was dying of disease. My neighbor had a Saint Bernard that had gotten into a fight with another Saint Bernard. The dog nearly had its ear bitten off. Maggots had set in and the dog was dying so my neighbor had to have the dog put away. He asked me if he could use one of my guns, and his cousin then used my rifle to kill the dog.

 

We've been perpertually plagued by gophers which we call ground squirrels. These rodents eat the first two rows of crops along the drainage ditches as soon as they emerge from the soil. I was pretty successful at ridding some of my fields of the ground squirrels mainly because I often kept a gun close at hand and I was a good shot. I once ran into a deer with my Miata Sports car. THe animal was badly wounded, probably mortally, and was struggling to rise from the road. I had a small pistol iwth me and I put a bullet behind his ear and that was that--an instant and painless death for the deer, which was the only deer I've ever killed although I have lots of capable rifles. I"ve had to shoot kittens that I had not seen out in the field which I accidentally ran over with a stalk shredder, which made a bloody mess out of them but not always killed the animals.

 

As you can see, the gun is still an absolutely essential tool for the American farmer as well as being completely necessary for his protection and that of his family. You see, the farm is the last vestige of the old American frontier, where the gun was both an essential tool as well as being vital to one's self defense. And any Ameriican who does not appreciate that is just poorly informed either not having a knowledge of his own nation's History or not understanding or caring about the living conditions of his fellow Americans living out in isolated rural areas. or both.

[Eneukman 1]

Originally posted by M1903:

 

 

1. It’s “neighborhood,” not “neighboorhood.” It’s “Beretta,” not “Baretta.” It’s “graduate,” not “garduate.” It’s “degrees,” not “degress.” It's "buy," not "but." Let’s see if I understand this right. You have two graduate degrees yet exhibit worse spelling and punctuation than many third graders. Those must have been some university graduate schools you attended. I trust your “great job” isn’t teaching English.

 

2. I have no idea whether you’re a redneck or not, but willingly carrying a .32 ACP for a “back up” pistol is one notch less “dumb” than packing a .25 ACP. You can afford a Saturn, but you keep a Chicom SKS in the trunk. Hmmm.

 

3. “You have no need for a gun ... except for hunting and target practice.” Sarah Brady, Dianne Feinstein, Charles Schumer ... allow me to introduce M1903. He shares your amoral political beliefs.

 

Originally posted by sinbinjack:

 

 

1. I’ve previously refuted such pusillanimous twaddle already in the Off Topic and General Chat forum in the Member’s Only board and, for the sake of brevity and JohnnyK’s nerves, will not repeat most of it here.

 

2. Your illusion of safety under the UK’s oppressive anti-freedom laws is contradicted by objective reality and your own government’s artfully crafted crime statistics. “Hot” burglary rates in the UK have skyrocketed under your victim disarmament laws and are much higher than in the USA. BTW, many English police carry guns, far more than decades ago when decent Britons were "allowed" to possess arms for their own self-preservation.

 

3. Kindly do not beg American gun owners to send their privately-held firearms to equip the docilely unarmed English populace as you blokes did in 1940. In the future, live with the consequences of your own stupidity and learn German, Russian, or whatever language your conquerors speak.

 

4. I’ve never been able to fathom why anyone with three or more functioning brain cells thinks they’re safer due to laws which render them unarmed and helpless, but then none of my degrees are in Abnormal Psychology. BTW, what is a “villan”[sic] and what does one “look like?” Evidently you attended the same schools as M1903.

 

5. Yes, millions of us in America will "keep our guns." In doing so, we'll retain some vestige of individual liberty. Something you cretins across the pond abandoned long ago.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave. — Andrew Fletcher, 1698

 

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. — William Pitt, before the House of Commons, 18 November 1783.

 

The power of the sword, say the minority of Pennsylvania, is in the hands of Congress. My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for THE POWERS OF THE SWORD ARE IN THE HANDS OF THE YEOMANRY OF AMERICA FROM SIXTEEN TO SIXTY. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared to any possible army must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are these militia? [A]re they not our selves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American .... [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. — Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, February 20, 1788.

 

The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. — Thomas Jefferson

Skytrooper,

 

I have ALREADY explained to you one of the reasons the UK has one of the most stringent anti-gun laws in the world. but it seems that I have to do so again!!!

 

You are an intelligent guy, so please take the time to look at and digest this -

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/2543277.stm

 

Once you have done so, please come back and tell sinbinjack, myself and doubtless many others here the answer to this question -

 

What is more important?

 

The life of a 5 or 6 year old child who has done no one any harm? or -

Your alleged right to own as many guns as you deem fit.

 

I'm sure that the parents of the children who were massacred or injured in Dunblane would be only too willing to give their point of view!

 

Alan

[JohnnyK 28]

jackcorbett,

Where you live, or how keen a collector you are, or your childhood and history books and hobbies while growing up in America have ZERO to do with Thai law or gun regulations. It's another country.

If you try to bring them in it is possible they could be confiscated.

The best advice given so far is go see a good Thai lawyer.

[Skytrooper 0]

Originally posted by Eneukman:

What is more important?

 

The life of a 5 or 6 year old child who has done no one any harm? or -

Your alleged right to own as many guns as you deem fit.

 

I'm sure that the parents of the children who were massacred or injured in Dunblane would be only too willing to give their point of view!

 

Alan

 

1. I addressed this very point in exhaustive detail long ago in the OT forum.

 

2. Ignoring the concept of unalienable individual rights (which comes all too easy for your ilk), there is no way on Earth to legislate guaranteed safety. For every person killed by some malefactor with a firearm, here in the USA far more lives have been saved by the presence of decent armed individuals. See (once again) The Bias Against Guns by Professor John R. Lott, Jr.

 

3. There is perhaps no more reprehensible notion than that the liberty of all people must be abrogated because of the criminal misdeeds of a relative few. That assertion is the cornerstone of every form of tyranny in history. For someone who professes he's not "stupid," why do you persist in trying to convince me otherwise?

 

4. I'm confident the parents you referred to are only too willing to allow emotion and wishful thinking to supercede facts and objective cognition. The fact many people are irrational and only too willing to sacrifice freedom for the illusion of safety is no basis for me to abandon reason and respect for unalienable individual rights. Do you propose banning alcoholic drinks in the UK because of the instances where 5 and 6 year-old children were killed by drunk drivers? That's what I thought.

 

5. If you and other Britons prefer to suffer under the bizarre delusion that you're safer having rendered yourself unarmed and helpless, then only a person of little wit may excuse you. I'm sure hoodlums in the UK appreciate your views on victim disarmament. If you expect millions of Americans to ignore history and reality then you're seriously mistaken.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. — William Pitt, before the House of Commons, 18 November 1783.

 

There can be no compromise between freedom and government controls; to accept “just a few controls†is to surrender the principle of inalienable individual rights and to substitute for it the principle of the government’s unlimited, arbitrary power, thus delivering oneself into gradual enslavement. — Ayn Rand

 

The whole of the Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the rights of the people at large... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of. — Albert Gallatin, 7 October 1789

[Babepecker 0]

jackcorbett,

thanks for taking time to reply - it was very interesting to read.

 

 

 

 

Skytrooper,

Babepecker,

 

Liberty is the political condition of personal freedom. Your notion I enjoyed "liberty within my mind" while being confined in a cage in a federal gulag for over five years for having exercised my unalienable individual rights of unhindered political speech and possession of arms is absurd, even for you.

 

When accosted by vicious hoodlums, whether the private variety or government goons, you may choose to be unarmed and helpless ... I do not.

 

I am sorry that you see it so exclusively.

 

IMHO, liberty is not defined as only the simple freedom to move wherever you wish to.

 

Or were you absolutely forbidden to think and/or speak while being imprisoned?

 

 

 

[sinbinjack 251]

skytrooper you are somehow asserting that guns and freedom go hand in hand and somehow the USA is a land of limitless freedoms all down to the bill of rights have you conveniently forgoten Guantanamo bay (hope its spelled right)and the lack of rights given to the people held there by the government you defend because of your Bill of Rights please tell me which ammendment allows the government to suspend the bill of rights so giving you all these wonderful freedoms but not anyone the government dosent like

sinbinjack

 

ps I should ad here so you and other people dont get the wrong idea about me that I love to go to america and have done often (and will again) and on the whole find Americans to be friendly and open people but the gun laws (or lack thereof)are to me a sad lack in a so called civilised society

[wombat 5]

http://www.nsgtmo.navy.mil/