New Condos Pushed in Royal Garden Stores

[Owen` 2]

I let myself get the schpiel this morning in some store or other where they have models set up of the new condo highrise/tower. In general it looks like 1500 square feet (I think that's 145 sq meters) for about $250,000 all everything. Every unit has a balcony with a jacuzzi on it.

 

Looks nice but there were worries, not the least of which were wanting money up front and the completion date is not til mid 2007.

 

Anyone know more?

[bangkapiboy 5]

All I know is one has to do a little research when buying into a development that is not completed. Here in Thailand it's all about reputation. Without that reputation, then the company really has nothing to lose. With a decent repuation of completing projects and maintaining them, then you can be just about sure the developer will have things go just as planned.

 

The balcony with a jacuzzi would be a dream come true!

[wacmedia 277]

Hi

 

If hard sell involved, usually a rip-off of some sort. Sure all these merchants will crawl out from out of the woodwork for high season.

[Owen` 2]

If hard sell involved, usually a rip-off of some sort. Sure all these merchants will crawl out from out of the woodwork for high season.

 

I'm in Singapore headed back to the states and have been giving this matter some thought.

 

My read is this. Given the new airport, there is about only one way to lose money on a high rise, ocean view condo purchase in or near Pattaya. That one way is to pay too much to begin with -- that is, get scammed.

 

I think the way to play this is to buy one that already exists. This up front money crap from these folks (I was told the 50/50 ratio of foreigners to locals legal limit was being approached so I had to move fast or I'd be screwed) was just that, crap. They are trying to finance their building with purchases -- or more likely using deposits for loan collateral.

 

I think not. Not with my money. I will start scanning the websites for a high rise condo already in existance and owned. If one exists that is less than . . . say, 5 yrs old, I will have to get serious.

[lemons 0]

Owen,

You sound like you know what you're doing. One big advantage with buying an existing condo (1 year +), is that you can sus out what the management is like and the value you'd get for your body corporate fees - called something else in LOS I think? Good to look at the maintenance standards; all those little repair jobs that if left unnattended can make a building turn to shit.

 

Remember the adage: How many Thais does it take to change a lightbulb? Unknown, as it's never been attempted.

 

Lemons

[wacmedia 277]

My read is this. Given the new airport, there is about only one way to lose money on a high rise, ocean view condo purchase in or near Pattaya. That one way is to pay too much to begin with

 

 

Hi

 

That seems a good call.

[Owen` 2]

My read is this. Given the new airport, there is about only one way to lose money on a high rise, ocean view condo purchase in or near Pattaya. That one way is to pay too much to begin with -- that is, get scammed.

 

I'm quoting myself on this matter because I've done some additional research to pass along to the board.

 

The strategy of pursuing a condo for an investment is pretty conventional just about everywhere. What not has my attention, and concern, is the value of the money obtained. Meaning, if one buys a condo and holds it for a few years, the new airport goes in, real estate/condos in Pattaya spike in price and lots of buyers want to buy

mine and give me a nice profit -- so what? So I make a profit? What value does

this have if I can't access the money?

 

I am not talking about the fact that I'd have to buy another condo and its price will be up too. I mean taking the money out of Thailand. There are apparently enormous obstacles to taking big money out of Thailand once you bring it in.

 

Anyone have data or experience?

[ting_tong 63]

Is this the place on Soi Buhkao, where many investors have been flim flamed out of millions of baht?

Its next to Siam Sawasdee, near Soi Honey.

[Owen` 2]

Is this the place on Soi Buhkao, where many investors have been flim flamed out of millions of baht?

Its next to Siam Sawasdee, near Soi Honey.

 

Not sure. They were marketing it as ocean view this and ocean view that. And I thnk they are building in Jomtien. Is that the place?

 

When I was in Pattaya in late Nov the presentation was elaborate in the RG mall. It may still be there. Dunno.

 

I sensed white collar very upscale scam -- meaning not that they steal your money but that they take your deposit, hold it, wait to accumulate more and build the place eventually, but possibly 5 yrs late or something like that -- all while refusing to refund your money.

 

I'm sort of dismissing them and preferring a place already built and for sale.

[ting_tong 63]

I dont know what your long term plans are, but after almost 5 months here, its not so fun. I get tired of the noise, other stupid falangs, and a few more things.

 

 

I took some side trips to Issan, and found that place to be better for a low profile kickback hangout.

A side trip to pattaya from issan is only $50 USD so if the urge to visit is there, then its cheap.

I am finding a long term lease is better for my situation, 1 to 3 years with renewal.

 

ting

[Owen` 2]

I dont know what your long term plans are, but after almost 5 months here, its not so fun. I get tired of the noise, other stupid falangs, and a few more things.

 

Interesting. You're not the first to say it, either.

 

I don't have cast iron plans. My net worth is just about to the substantial level where I may choose to early retire. I can envision Pattaya/Jomtien as one of 2 or 3 residences around the world -- perhaps seasonal. I am interested in your comment about the noise. I would not expect that as far south as Jomtien but I don't spend the time there that expats do so I would not know.

 

I do believe condos and real estate near the beach in that area are destined for growth, and given that owning a residence there, in that context, costs nothing at all the temptation is clear. One sells it when one is done with it and living there cost nothing in housing. The risk is, of course, govt confiscation but that kind of risk exists everywhere outside the US or UK.

 

The plusses are:

 

1) the place is very cheap. When one chooses to early retire one takes a risk that healthcare inflation or energy inflation or any of lots of things could go wrong to define the amount of money you thought to be "enough" to be "way too little". If any of those things happens and it runs out before you die it creates some rather miserable final years. A very cheap place to live several months per year reduces that threat.

 

2) The place is warm all the time. I am tired of the cold.

 

3) The women are hyper available.

 

4) I have a passion for travel. There are many places worth seeing at very low air travel prices from BKK with almost no jetlag to endure.

 

5) I like water views. It is relaxing.

 

The negatives:

 

1) Lots of unknowns. I'm dealing with those incrementally.

 

2) Possible boredom. I have a strong suspicion this will derive from "retirement" and not from "retirement near Pattaya".

 

3) A sense of losing touch with "home". I envision myself consulting in my current industry now and then during retirement -- as part of the issue above of perpetual doubts about "enough" vs "far too little". Consulting can be done through the net, but every required meeting will include 25 hrs of enroute time. I would hope only twice a year.

 

Anyway, the good news is one can apparently extract money from Thailand that is invested in a condo. This guarantees the first item under plusses.

[ting_tong 63]

I am at an apartment, and its a little noisy at times, although its a quite apartment.

It seems that some falangs from other countries (mostly euros) have no concept of how to close a door quietly, and some may not care about what others think about how much noise they make.

You will get that at a condo, you will be lucky if you dont get the neighbor from falang hell.

 

I have the oppertunity to buy a large house in issan, but can lease instead. Less risk, easier, no big deal.

[Owen` 2]

I am at an apartment, and its a little noisy at times, although its a quite apartment.

It seems that some falangs from other countries (mostly euros) have no concept of how to close a door quietly, and some may not care about what others think about how much noise they make.

You will get that at a condo, you will be lucky if you dont get the neighbor from falang hell.

 

I have the oppertunity to buy a large house in issan, but can lease instead. Less risk, easier, no big deal.

 

Well, that sux. I'll offer up an inadequate tidbit of advice, and I stress inadequate.

 

I've spent a career of business trips accumulating about a million frequent flyer miles and acquainting my back with every hotel bed style known to man. I learned one Road Warrior trick a long time ago.

 

You can effectively add a "virtual" $75/night to the price of a hotel room by investing $1.25 in a pair of foam rubber ear plugs. The suckers do work. They will take all noise down about 25 db and you will sleep just fine when you didn't think it was possible.

 

I suspect your issues are not at night, but so it goes.

 

It's good input. Thanks. My current home in the states has an acre of land around it so I don't have any noise problems, but I paid my dues living in apartments when I was younger so I know what you're talking about. We'll see.

[BigDUSA 71]

Every time I think about buying a condo in Pattaya, two questions come up that I haven't been able to resolve. Where is all the water the new condos require going to come from and the traffic problems approach gridlock on the weekends?

[Owen` 2]

Every time I think about buying a condo in Pattaya, two questions come up that I haven't been able to resolve. Where is all the water the new condos require going to come from and the traffic problems approach gridlock on the weekends?

 

Interesting. But of course this means demand remains unchanged but supply cannot increase because nothing can be built with water in it. This would make current existing condos even more in demand because new ones can't be built.

 

I heard there were water problems there that were resolved by weather I guess. This problem, btw, would limit all growth of the city itself. Hard to see how the real estate industry allows it to persist.

[ting_tong 63]

You can effectively add a "virtual" $75/night to the price of a hotel room by investing $1.25 in a pair of foam rubber ear plugs. The suckers do work. They will take all noise down about 25 db and you will sleep just fine when you didn't think it was possible.

 

I suspect your issues are not at night, but so it goes.

Its usually a problem at the early hours in the morning, there are many stupid falangs that will slam their doors in the AM, when they come home drunk.

 

There is also the stupid falangs thay are chronic door slammers, I dont know why thay do it...............maybe its a cutural thing?

 

Also the Thai girlfriends of some tennants dont give a shit about noise and slam doors too, not thinking about others. (really they dont!)

 

Best to stay in the condo for a week and do a trial run?

 

I am opting for a huge 2 story shophouse in Issan and converting it to a condo................rent is only 3000bt a month

When going back to the US, just roll the iron door down, lock and walk away

[BigDUSA 71]

Interesting. But of course this means demand remains unchanged but supply cannot increase because nothing can be built with water in it. This would make current existing condos even more in demand because new ones can't be built.

 

I heard there were water problems there that were resolved by weather I guess. This problem, btw, would limit all growth of the city itself. Hard to see how the real estate industry allows it to persist.

Your using 'western logic' and given the Thais are not big on planning for the future. Condos, hotels and housing developments are being built all over Pattaya/Jomtiem. Demand is increasing but the supply is stretched even thinner.

[Gary 4,119]

NEVER would I buy a condo in the construction phase. I know of one development that has been sitting empty for years even though from the outside it looks complete. It is a high rise near the south police station in Jomtien. What a waste! You will want to look at who your neighbors would be and what the general maintenance is like. How six people can be permitted to live in a small condominium astounds me. Thai kids are not known to be quiet. Security is another important factor. I have seen green water in some swimming pools and simple lack of care as far as the grounds are concerned. You can still buy some 28 square meter units for less than 500,000 baht. That is smaller than some hotel rooms.

[irishman 0]

Buying vs. renting has been a long debate for a lot of folks on this board. Like Owen, I'm not a big believer of paying for something that may or may not be constructed somewhere down the line. The NorthShore is a prime example of that. The folks that bought in the first time around got squat for their bucks. One guy who squatted in his purchased appartment was even thrown out of it by the current management.

 

But the horror stories aside, there are some nice properties to be had if you are patient and have a good Real Estate agent. After looking around off and on for a year, I found a 196 sq m condo with a 180 degree view of Jomtien, Koh Larn, and Pattaya beach. Then I had to pay to get it remodeled. All in all took about 9 months from start to finish but now I have a condo that even Soi 7 admits is the "Nicest that he has seen". That's big phraise coming from Larry. And the bottom line is about 1/10th of what I would have paid in the States.

 

So don't worry to much about whether or not values are going up or down, just realize that you are here to enjoy life and what is costs is only a small part of what it would cost elsewhere.

 

Cheers

[Dungheap 243]

Owen, rent for a while and see what pans out. You may hate Pattas after a year or someone may offer you a great deal on some second-hand joint that's virtually new.

 

There are scores of empty condos around Pattas. Everyone who has bought one tips that their investment will double in 10 years. Those who have held off predict another crash. Time will tell though I favor the latter, but quality joints will always retain their value.

 

There are some high-class condos along the water toward Chomtien and I could live in one tomorrow but apart from the top end stuff the big question with anything else is maintenance. The Thais unfortunately don't have a great reputation in that field.

 

So much of Thailand is undeveloped that there's always gonna be new areas popping up.

 

Edited December 12, 2005 by Dungheap

[Dungheap 243]

So don't worry to much about whether or not values are going up or down, just realize that you are here to enjoy life and what is costs is only a small part of what it would cost elsewhere.

 

Cheers

Well said but US$250,000 for a condo is hardly petty cash.

 

Danger, danger, danger

[Gary 4,119]

I justified buying mine with the thought that rent would be the biggest variable that I would have. I did look around for a year before buying.

[irishman 0]

Dungheap,

 

I wouldn' want you to get the wrong idea but I paid less than $250000 for my condo AND the remodel. I wasn't saying that you should just go out and throw cash at any salesman that you might run into!

 

Cheers

[Owen` 2]

Good input, guys. Thanx.

 

There are scores of empty condos around Pattas. Everyone who has bought one tips that their investment will double in 10 years. Those who have held off predict another crash. Time will tell though I favor the latter, but quality joints will always retain their value.

 

There are some high-class condos along the water toward Chomtien and I could live in one tomorrow but apart from the top end stuff the big question with anything else is maintenance.

 

Well, if there are a lot of empty condos, this is not encouraging at first glance. At second glance it can be.

 

We all got our opinions, and mine is going to be less qualified than the guys already living there, but I do have some semi macroeconomic thoughts that are in play as part of the choice.

 

1) The new airport.

 

2) The aging of the population in the West.

 

3) Divorce prevalence.

 

4) 2&3 combine to create lots of single, middle aged men.

 

5) China's oil infrastructure has created a bottle neck. This will hit the news in about 3 months. Their growth rate this year stopped spiking. Economic growth requires growth in oil consumption and they don't have the roads or tanker trucks to get fuel to the factories inland from the coast. It is slowing their growth rate. This has nudged up their labor costs. Thailand is now competitive in labor price with them.

 

6) Thailand's history as a staunch US ally will serve it well as Muslim pressures from Indonesia and Malaysia reduce their attractiveness to US semiconductor firms.

 

Anyway, that's what's in my crystal ball. We'll see. The rent for a while thing makes a ton of sense as long as word doesn't emerge that all those empty condos are filling up. I will pop back over there in a few months and look around some more.

[Emil 0]

When I was in Pattaya last week I saw them interviewing a person on TV connected with the Northshore project. At that time he said they only had 10 units left to sell in that project and that they were going to build another project just north of it that had 2 buildings, 1 60 stories and the other 50 and the only place that I could think of where they could build this would be around soi zero.

 

As far as the water issue this could be easily resolved by piping in water or building a canal to bring in excess water from other parts of Thailand. Take a look at the southern California area which was a desert before they brought in water from the Owens Valley, the Colorado River and from northern California.