State pension frozen

[Eneukman 1]

Following on from bazle's post on the NHS, some of you thinking of retiring to LOS may not be aware that if you live in Thailand (and a number of othe countries as well) that once you get your State pension at 65, you will NOT get any of the future cost of living increases.

 

I don't qualify for a bit over 14 years so it's not an immediate problem from my point of view but in my opinion this policy stinks. After all, by living outside the UK, look at what we're saving them on health care costs - no annual check ups etc etc etc.

 

Perhaps we should arrange for a flood of letters to land on the Prime Minister's doorstep every day for as long as takes for the government to rectify matters and give those pensioners already living here, their due rights.

 

Alan

[biggles 509]

Surprisingly, Australia which has the same Queen as England, and is a commonwealth country, is also one of the countries that england does not give cost of living increases to its retirees. Yet I understand that they do index pensions if you retire to Canada? Strange logic!!

[doolish 14]

Hi,

When was the last time the U.K. pensions went up, a couple of years ago they give the pensioners a reduction on what I still call the rates. This year I'm still waiting to see what happens, i do not live in the U.K. but our state pension is linked to it and we also get a extra 40 pounds a week on top of the U.K. pension.

I am living in LOS now got a house in Udon but I get my pension paid into my bank in the Island and do not inform the gov. that i am living abroad. I use my daughters address and return home ever year to show my face and to visit all relevant bodies to let them know I'm still living.

Also i believe you require to have a address in your own country to obtain a retirement visa.

Cheers Doug

[Owen` 2]

I'm not a Brit, but I know something of how Cost of Living Adjustments unfold, so here's a quick and dirty formula for you folks to project the effect of inflation

 

Value of Later Money = (1 / (1.0 + inflation rate)^Years) X Value of Today's Money

 

The ^ symbol means "raised to the power of " and the inflation rate is annual.

 

So if the British inflation rate is expected to average 4% for 15 years the result is

 

Value of Later Money = (1 / (1.04 ^ 15 = 1.8) = 0.55) 0.55 X Today's Money

 

If your pension freezes for 15 years from age 65, then your 80th year will require you to have about twice the number of pounds available to live.

 

FYI, it's not quite this bad. Most recent studies show that despite health care issues (which may not apply to the UK), 80 yr olds spend less than 65 yr olds. So the odds are (no guarantees) that even though inflation is going to chew yor money in half, and that isn't good, it's not quite as devastating as it appears. (but almost)

 

Y'all need to yell louder at your MPs, or somehow pretend to still be living in the UK.

[Owen` 2]

Arghh, missing parens:

 

 

Value of Later Money = (1 / ((1.0 + inflation rate)^Years)) X Value of Today's Money

 

There. Much prettier.

[carpediem 0]

Curious how a lot of bm s get hot under the collar when it is suggested that the tg and thailand is not immune to effects of this equation of reducing money value.

[WelshFarang 0]

Following on from bazle's post on the NHS, some of you thinking of retiring to LOS may not be aware that if you live in Thailand (and a number of othe countries as well) that once you get your State pension at 65, you will NOT get any of the future cost of living increases.

 

I don't qualify for a bit over 14 years so it's not an immediate problem from my point of view but in my opinion this policy stinks. After all, by living outside the UK, look at what we're saving them on health care costs - no annual check ups etc etc etc.

 

Perhaps we should arrange for a flood of letters to land on the Prime Minister's doorstep every day for as long as takes for the government to rectify matters and give those pensioners already living here, their due rights.

 

Alan

What happens if you move back to the UK?Let say at age 70 you decide to go back. Will you get the full pension or will you be 5 years behind? My guess is same rate (full) as everyoe else gets.

[Eneukman 1]

What happens if you move back to the UK?Let say at age 70 you decide to go back. Will you get the full pension or will you be 5 years behind? My guess is same rate (full) as everyoe else gets.

I don't know to be honest but my guess would be the same as yours.

 

Whilst inflation just now is low, (I have been told that my bank pension is being increased by a massive 2.2% to compensate for inflation), as Owen has shown the amount you are being denied does mount up after a number of years.

 

Alan

[Eneukman 1]

Hi,

When was the last time the U.K. pensions went up, a couple of years ago they give the pensioners a reduction on what I still call the rates. This year I'm still waiting to see what happens, i do not live in the U.K. but our state pension is linked to it and we also get a extra 40 pounds a week on top of the U.K. pension.

I am living in LOS now got a house in Udon but I get my pension paid into my bank in the Island and do not inform the gov. that i am living abroad. I use my daughters address and return home ever year to show my face and to visit all relevant bodies to let them know I'm still living.

Also i believe you require to have a address in your own country to obtain a retirement visa.

Cheers Doug

doolish,

 

I spent 25 years dealing with the estates of people who had just died and the DSS in the UK WILL reclaim from the estate any money that they decide the claimant wasn't entitled to. How wold they know that someone was living in Thailand? Simple, they ask to see the death certificate. I came across a few cases in my time where someone was claiming Income Support to which they were not entitled. The good news though is that the DSS have a limited timescale within which to submit a claim. In one case, they were so incompetent that this period expired so I simply paid the money over to the beneficiaries of the estate.

 

Slightly off topic but in a similar vein, the Inland Revenue will examine your estate after you've died to see whether there were any sources of income you weren't declaring in your tax return. One UK resident had £250,000 in a bank account in the Channel Islands and failed to declare the interest on that to the authorities. I had to go back and prepare tax returns for the previous 6 years (not easy when the only person who actually knew everything was dead!). If the person had been alive, the Revenue could then have gone back a further 6 years and so on. However, as he had died, they asked me to ask the beneficiaries if they would be willing to make a voluntary contribution towards the unpaid taxe for earlier years. No prizes for guessing what the answer was!

 

Alan

[carpediem 0]

eneukman, may i ask a technical question re dss & estates? my father died while he was living abroad. there was some months overshoot with the payments of his pension into his bank account. when i informed dss of his death they came back to say that some hundreds of pounds paid after his death needs to be reimbursed. i replied that i'd do that when i had access to the account. a solictor is now handling the probate. do i just ignore my correspondence with dss? how long for? will they automatically get the money somehow before probate is granted?

cd

[doolish 14]

Eman

As I have said I do not live in the U.K. We do not have things like death duties etc. so they don't look into what you've got.

Also I am going back home in August to get rid of house etc. if they did want something they would have a hard job getting it out of nothing. Oh i forgot maybe a couple of hundred pounds in my named bank account.

Cheers Doug.

[Owen` 2]

I'm not a Brit and can't say if something like this is available to you folks, but in the US one of the favorite estate management tools available to people who want to protect inheritance for their family is a trust.

 

A trust is a legal entity that people put their money into. It costs some money to set up, but once it is set up, because it is not human, it does not die. You do. It doesn't. You set up its "rules" to pay out benefits to your family under specified circumstances. Because it does not "die" it is never subject to estate tax.

 

Now if a guy was cheating on his taxes and funded the trust with the result, I'm pretty sure that maneuver will fail and the IRS will penetrate the trust, but there are some very creative things that I've seen done with foreign trusts so that when the tax people discover the cheating and come looking in his estate for money, they find nothing -- but they do find the money sent to the foreign trust. If a request is made to the foreign bank by the US tax people to send them the money -- well, the bank is generating fees from that trust so after they finish laughing they become creative in their own way to find a way to retain the money and fees and keep sending proceeds to the beneficiary -- who may also be outside the US.

 

In general, trusts protect from estate tax and lawyer costs processing estates on death of the individual. The paragraph above is just something I once encountered. Not recommended and I don't even suggest any such thing is possible in the UK (or the US now).

 

Anyway, I have no idea if the UK can do this sort of thing, but I suspect trusts in some terminology exist there and might warrant some study.

[Eneukman 1]

eneukman, may i ask a technical question re dss & estates? my father died while he was living abroad. there was some months overshoot with the payments of his pension into his bank account. when i informed dss of his death they came back to say that some hundreds of pounds paid after his death needs to be reimbursed. i replied that i'd do that when i had access to the account. a solictor is now handling the probate. do i just ignore my correspondence with dss? how long for? will they automatically get the money somehow before probate is granted?

cd

I would pass on any correspondence you receive to the solicitor handling the estate.

 

As the DSS have made a claim, the sum overpaid has to be reimbursed though they are aware that this won't happen until after Probate has been granted. You certainly won't be expected to repay them from your own funds until such time as Probate has been granted. If the DSS are pressing you, the bank into which the money was paid MAY be willing to repay the money direct to the DSS on your behalf, but this does tend to be at the manager's discretion and there's no guarantee that agreement will be forthcoming.

 

One point to bear in mind is that if the estate is liable to Inheritance Tax, interest starts accruing from 6 months after the date of death. Also, if the tax due on the personal estate isn't paid within 12 months, the Revenue have the right to issue penalties on top of the interest for late payment. The executor is PERSONALLY resposible for any penalties issued.

 

Alan

[Eneukman 1]

I'm not a Brit and can't say if something like this is available to you folks, but in the US one of the favorite estate management tools available to people who want to protect inheritance for their family is a trust.

 

A trust is a legal entity that people put their money into. It costs some money to set up, but once it is set up, because it is not human, it does not die. You do. It doesn't. You set up its "rules" to pay out benefits to your family under specified circumstances. Because it does not "die" it is never subject to estate tax.

 

Now if a guy was cheating on his taxes and funded the trust with the result, I'm pretty sure that maneuver will fail and the IRS will penetrate the trust, but there are some very creative things that I've seen done with foreign trusts so that when the tax people discover the cheating and come looking in his estate for money, they find nothing -- but they do find the money sent to the foreign trust. If a request is made to the foreign bank by the US tax people to send them the money -- well, the bank is generating fees from that trust so after they finish laughing they become creative in their own way to find a way to retain the money and fees and keep sending proceeds to the beneficiary -- who may also be outside the US.

 

In general, trusts protect from estate tax and lawyer costs processing estates on death of the individual. The paragraph above is just something I once encountered. Not recommended and I don't even suggest any such thing is possible in the UK (or the US now).

 

Anyway, I have no idea if the UK can do this sort of thing, but I suspect trusts in some terminology exist there and might warrant some study.

Own,

 

Trusts can be set up in the UK as well but there are Inheritance Tax (Estate Duty) implications that need to be taken into account, especially if you are going to be drawing an income from the trust. This value of this type of trust will almost certainly have to be aggregated with the value of your estate to calculate the total tax liability.

 

Gifts made more than 7 years before the date of death are exempt from Inheritance Tax but may have to be taken into consideration if a Discretionary Trust (a special kind of trust) was set up within 7 years of death.

 

Expert legal advice is an absolute necessity before going down this road as there are enormous Inheritance Tax implications if you get the sequence of events wrong.

 

Alan

[roderick17 0]

doolish,

 

I spent 25 years dealing with the estates of people who had just died and the DSS in the UK WILL reclaim from the estate any money that they decide the claimant wasn't entitled to. How wold they know that someone was living in Thailand? Simple, they ask to see the death certificate. I came across a few cases in my time where someone was claiming Income Support to which they were not entitled. The good news though is that the DSS have a limited timescale within which to submit a claim. In one case, they were so incompetent that this period expired so I simply paid the money over to the beneficiaries of the estate.

 

Slightly off topic but in a similar vein, the Inland Revenue will examine your estate after you've died to see whether there were any sources of income you weren't declaring in your tax return. One UK resident had £250,000 in a bank account in the Channel Islands and failed to declare the interest on that to the authorities. I had to go back and prepare tax returns for the previous 6 years (not easy when the only person who actually knew everything was dead!). If the person had been alive, the Revenue could then have gone back a further 6 years and so on. However, as he had died, they asked me to ask the beneficiaries if they would be willing to make a voluntary contribution towards the unpaid taxe for earlier years. No prizes for guessing what the answer was!

 

Alan

Alan

 

Sorry, but I don't follow your logic.

 

If this guy had 250,000 pounds in the tink tank, I dont understand why the tax man would look to anyone else to pay up for hiim, deceased as he is . I'd have thought the'd just take any tax owed out of the princpal and repay anything leftover to the relatives??

 

Roderick

[Eneukman 1]

Alan

 

Sorry, but I don't follow your logic.

 

If this guy had 250,000 pounds in the tink tank, I dont understand why the tax man would look to anyone else to pay up for hiim, deceased as he is . I'd have thought the'd just take any tax owed out of the princpal and repay anything leftover to the relatives??

 

Roderick

UK law allows the Inland Revenue to go back a maximum of 6 years where someone has died and has not been declaring all sources of income. However, they are permitted to ASK the benefciaries of an estate to make a contribution to unpaid taxes for previous years though the beneficiaries are under no obligation t make any such payment. I am certain that in 100% of cases that the answer would be a not so polite refusal.

 

It's not the taxman who takes the unpaid tax from the money in the bank but rather your executor. Your executor's responsibilities include ensuring that all assets are dealt with and that ALL liabilities are settled. It is also in the estate's best interest that the executor co-perates fully with the Inland Reenue as the penalties levied can be reduced based on the level of co-operation received etc etc.

 

Alan

[torrenova 644]

There won't be a pension scheme when I get there or you'll have to be 100yrs old to claim it.

 

As for tax, tell them to fuck off.

[SMITHY 1]

eneukman, may i ask a technical question re dss & estates? my father died while he was living abroad. there was some months overshoot with the payments of his pension into his bank account. when i informed dss of his death they came back to say that some hundreds of pounds paid after his death needs to be reimbursed. i replied that i'd do that when i had access to the account. a solictor is now handling the probate. do i just ignore my correspondence with dss? how long for? will they automatically get the money somehow before probate is granted?

cd

Why didn't you just say he was on holiday when he died ?

[ruskiehat 0]

Think Blair was trying to cap all Pensions if you lived outside the UK. Then some pensioners took the Labour goverment to court as it breached all EU laws.

 

That's why if you retire and live within the EU now, your Pension will be index linked and increase as and when it increases in the UK. Not sure about Canada and other dominions. If the goverment can get away paying you less they will... the bastards

[jonny_two_combs 3]

What happens if you move back to the UK?Let say at age 70 you decide to go back. Will you get the full pension or will you be 5 years behind? My guess is same rate (full) as everyoe else gets.

you would get the same pension but must satify the authorities that you now permanently reside in the uk

and that can be intrusive

 

i have often wondered how diligent they become if you give your address as the same as one of you family and just get them to forward your

mail??

[Eneukman 1]

Think Blair was trying to cap all Pensions if you lived outside the UK. Then some pensioners took the Labour goverment to court as it breached all EU laws.

 

That's why if you retire and live within the EU now, your Pension will be index linked and increase as and when it increases in the UK. Not sure about Canada and other dominions. If the goverment can get away paying you less they will... the bastards

What really pisses me of about this is that by living abroad, we're SAVING the country money. They're not having to pay for our health care costs, no annual check ups at the doctor's and so on.

 

Alan

[chris_heaton 4]

But your money from the UK taxpayer is not helping the UK economy. It is going straight into Thailand! When you live in England every loaf you buy helps the local business near where you live, helps employ people in the UK, helps the government get more tax from those people etc etc.

Chris

[jonny_two_combs 3]

But your money from the UK taxpayer is not helping the UK economy. It is going straight into Thailand! When you live in England every loaf you buy helps the local business near where you live, helps employ people in the UK, helps the government get more tax from those people etc etc.

Chris

personally i think after a minimum of 43 years contributions to the state in nh contributions

and the same contributing to the econony i think england' s had it pound of flesh outa its senior citizens and no amount of perverbial loaves is gonna equate to expensive medical /home care in your vimmer frame days