Retirement Visa

[richardm 1]

In a few short (I hope) years I would like to apply for the Retirement Visa and come and live in Thailand.

 

I currently own a condo in Pattaya and my rough plan is to sell-up and move into my girlfriends house in the country. At age 55 I would then start drawing on my UK private pension.

 

However I have recently heard that to prove the 400,000 or 800,000 Baht rul you must be able to show that this amount of money is coming in from a foreign bank every year. Is this strictly true?

 

I was planning on just leaving sufficient money in my Thai bank account and making sure that it never drops below the minimum requirement for the visa each year (the money would stay in the account and not go in and out of the account). However if I must prove that the money is coming in from abroad every year then my plans may be out the window.

 

Is it enough just to prove that the money is always in the account, or do you have to prove it is fresh money from abroad every year?

 

Any help from people in the know is appreciated.

[MrMango 667]

You did not say what Nationally you are. I have a U.S. Passport, and the U.S. Embassy will sign a statement of your income without any checks, and you can then present this to Immigration as your proof of income. Don't know about other passports.

[spiderman 0]

Two years ago, Pattaya Immigration refused to accept my application to extend my marriage visa because I couldn't prove the funds came from abroad.

So the next day I traveled up to Bangkok with my wife and newborn baby, and no problems there.

Last year I got my brother to send the funds from the UK, and he is doing the same again this week.

 

However, they introduced a new rule again this week, saying the funds need to be in the bank 3 months prior to application.

 

If this is true, I may have to go to Bangkok again.

 

Spidey.

[richardm 1]

I am from the UK and hold a British Passport.

[Eneukman 1]

The reason for the requirement to prove that the funds in your account came from abroad is to prove to Immigration that you're not working illegally in the UK. Even if you left the sum of 800,000 baht (or 400,000 baht as the case may be), Immigration may still raise a few queries. They are looking for proof of where your day to day living expenses are coming from. If the balance stays the same, the assumption, unless you can prove otherwise, is that you are working illegally.

 

The British Embassy will issue a letter confirming that your pension is in excess of 65,000 baht per month but unlike the US Embassy, they won't accept your word for it. They want to see the proof. You will also need to show that you have some money in a Thai bank account.

 

Alan

[richardm 1]

Drat, looks like problems.

 

My idea was/is to sell the condo and live off the proceeds from age 50 to 55. I have to wait until age 55 because the UK Government have moved the goal posts and personal pensions will no longer pay-out at age 50 - only at 55 onwards. I don't mind selling it as that was my long term plan anyway. Will be moving into my girlfriends house anyway so I am not bothered about it.

 

Do not much fancy having to lve in the UK another 5 years and I have worked out that I can live off the condo proceeds for 5 years or more.

 

Is there another way if I can't get the retirement visa for 5 years?

Would they issue me a multiple non-immigrant visa for 5 continual years running?

Or does it mean I have to resort to sending the condo proceeds back to England and then sending it back to Thailand in portions 5 years running? Seems a bit long winded like that.

 

I would have more than enough money in a Thai bank account, which I would draw upon each month. But having to prove it keeps coming in from England would be difficult from age 50 to 55.

[whitespider 1]

Richard

 

This seems to have got a little confusing in here. the situation now is as follows but could be subject to change over the time-scales you mention.

 

For a "retirement visa"

 

Must be 50 + - that seems satisfied

 

Must have 800,000 in a thai bank or thai bonds

 

OR a combination of cash in bank + income i.e. can have 400,000 in bank and 35,000 per month.

 

The 800,000 must be shown to come from overseas (the thai bank will give you a letter confirming this).

 

The 800,000 (or lower + income) must be in at each annual renewal and must have been in the bank at least 3 months prior to renewal, i.e. you cannot just transfer money in a few days before the renewal then out again.

 

If you deposit one lot of 800,000 and leave it there for 5 years you only have to do this ONCE - at the beginning, not every year.

 

As to whether you can live for 5 years on the proceeds of the condo depends on the price you get for it and whether it can satisfy the rules as above for 5 years.

 

You can get a Multi Imm O visa for 12 months - but if you renew it in Thailand you would need to be married. Your post says GF so I assume you are not married.

 

I know that this may NOT be what you want to hear but I think the only way you can stick to your plan is to get married. To get your O visa renewed each 12 months would only require 400,000 (or lower + income) in the bank.

 

I hope that helps

Edited October 7, 2006 by whitespider

[redwood13 56]

Richard

 

This seems to have got a little confusing in here. the situation now is as follows but could be subject to change over the time-scales you mention.

 

For a "retirement visa"

 

Must be 50 + - that seems satisfied

 

Must have 800,000 in a thai bank or thai bonds

 

OR a combination of cash in bank + income i.e. can have 400,000 in bank and 35,000 per month.

 

The 800,000 must be shown to come from overseas (the thai bank will give you a letter confirming this).

 

The 800,000 (or lower + income) must be in at each annual renewal and must have been in the bank at least 3 months prior to renewal, i.e. you cannot just transfer money in a few days before the renewal then out again.

 

If you deposit one lot of 800,000 and leave it there for 5 years you only have to do this ONCE - at the beginning, not every year.

 

As to whether you can live for 5 years on the proceeds of the condo depends on the price you get for it and whether it can satisfy the rules as above for 5 years.

 

You can get a Multi Imm O visa for 12 months - but if you renew it in Thailand you would need to be married. Your post says GF so I assume you are not married.

 

I know that this may NOT be what you want to hear but I think the only way you can stick to your plan is to get married. To get your O visa renewed each 12 months would only require 400,000 (or lower + income) in the bank.

 

I hope that helps

 

The requirements for obtaining an extension of an O visa on the basis of supporting a Thai wife have changed as of 1 Oct. 2006. You now have to have a letter from your embassy (as per the extension for a retirement visa) confirming that you have an income/pension of at least 40,000 baht per month. You cannot use money in a Thai bank account nor a combination of income/pension plus money in a bank account to qualify. The 40,000 baht monthly income can be the combined income of both spouses.

 

Anyone who's had such extensions prior to 1 Oct. can continue using money in the bank or a combination of money in the bank and income to satisfy the requirements.

 

My experience on obtaining an extension of my retirement visa was that Immigration wants to see an active Thai bank account. In my case I use a combination of money in the bank and monthly income. Last year they went through my bank book line by line and checked to see that money was coming in on a regular basis and also looked at my withdrawls.

 

In the case of selling your condo the Tor Tor Sam, now called Foreign Exchange Transaction Form, should be evidence of your having initially brought in foreign currency from outside Thailand and I'd think that would be so noted when you re-deposit it into a Thai bank.

 

-redwood

[richardm 1]

I have just been reading various comments on thaivisa on how the new laws should be applied.

 

Looks like I am stuffed if I have to prove an income every single month, which I cannot until I am aged 55.

So even if I happen to have 1 Billion Baht in a Thai bank (I don't have that much) it would still not be good enough to satisfy Immigration.

 

I know I still have some 4 years to go and I can only hope the situation might get better, after all these are new laws which could even change again. But if they don't improve then I cannot see that I can prove an income even though I will have more than enough in a Thai bank to live off.

 

R

[Gary 4,118]

Four years from now the goal posts are VERY likely to be moved again and who knows in what direction. If you sell your condo make it a stipulation that you want the funds wire transfered to your UK bank. At that point you can wire transfer the funds back to Thailand and the bank will give you documents to prove that the money was wired from the UK. I retired in a similar fashion. I lived off my savings until my pensions started and had no problems.

[BigDUSA 71]

I have just been reading various comments on thaivisa on how the new laws should be applied.

 

Looks like I am stuffed if I have to prove an income every single month, which I cannot until I am aged 55.

So even if I happen to have 1 Billion Baht in a Thai bank (I don't have that much) it would still not be good enough to satisfy Immigration.

 

I know I still have some 4 years to go and I can only hope the situation might get better, after all these are new laws which could even change again. But if they don't improve then I cannot see that I can prove an income even though I will have more than enough in a Thai bank to live off.

 

R

 

One thing to remember when your dealing with Immigration or almost any other Thai government agency. Money talks and bullshit walks. It's down right amazing what a envelope filled with baht can do for ones application.

[midlifecrisis 4,048]

One thing to remember when your dealing with Immigration or almost any other Thai government agency. Money talks and bullshit walks. It's down right amazing what a envelope filled with baht can do for ones application.

How much baht?

[BigDUSA 71]

How much baht?

 

It's been a couple of years but I seem to remember 20K would have a retirement visa in my hands within two days. The wife of the now retired head of Pattaya Immigration ran a expedited visa service.

[midlifecrisis 4,048]

It's been a couple of years but I seem to remember 20K would have a retirement visa in my hands within two days. The wife of the now retired head of Pattaya Immigration ran a expedited visa service.

And how long is that visa good for?

[MrMango 667]

20,000 Baht is a LOT of money for no assured solutions - Sounds like Christmas to me.

[richardm 1]

Thanks for all this information. Looks like the Retirement Visa is the way to go, as I initially planned.

[whitespider 1]

Four years from now the goal posts are VERY likely to be moved again and who knows in what direction. If you sell your condo make it a stipulation that you want the funds wire transfered to your UK bank. At that point you can wire transfer the funds back to Thailand and the bank will give you documents to prove that the money was wired from the UK. I retired in a similar fashion. I lived off my savings until my pensions started and had no problems.

 

Good advice Gary. Remember you must have the original Tor Tor 3 (foreign exchange document now) to transfer money from the sale OUT of Thailand. If you purchased via an agent initially I am sure you will have one of these - it would have been requested from the Thai Bank you originally placed the purchase funds into.

 

If for some reason you did not get a Tor Tor 3 (and many fail to do so) - then you (technically) cannot transfer funds from a property sale out of Thailand. That is how the law stands - as many have pointed out there are probably ways of getting around this with but it would be a good idea to CHECK you have this document.

 

 

The requirements for obtaining an extension of an O visa on the basis of supporting a Thai wife have changed as of 1 Oct. 2006. You now have to have a letter from your embassy (as per the extension for a retirement visa) confirming that you have an income/pension of at least 40,000 baht per month. You cannot use money in a Thai bank account nor a combination of income/pension plus money in a bank account to qualify. The 40,000 baht monthly income can be the combined income of both spouses.

 

This is not 100% correct - the income does not have to come from abroad - if you have a business in Thailand the money can come from there to renew an O visa. This is only relevant to O visa - if you wait until after 50 and go the retirement route then this is not relevant.

 

My advice would be to get in touch with Greg at Sunbelt and take some proper "advice". It will only cost you around £100 and will certainly clear you mind about your options and any confusion you are feeling about all the differing pieces of information you receive.

Edited October 8, 2006 by whitespider

[bob2005 0]

I saved this on 9th May 2004 from the PricewaterhouseCoopers website. Might be worth calling them to check if it's still true.

 

The important bit is "The Thai cabinet has reduced the age criterion from 55 to 50 and no longer requires foreigners to transfer money to a Thai bank account".

 

 

67/2002: Non immigrant visa category "O - A"

 

 

The Thai cabinet passed a resolution dated 11th September 2001 which has only become common knowledge in the last seven days. The resolution concerns new improvements to immigration procedures and is aimed at promoting the tourism industry by simplifying the regulations on obtaining non-immigrant visas, category "O-A", to accommodate long stay tourists. The Thai cabinet has reduced the age criterion from 55 to 50 and no longer requires foreigners to transfer money to a Thai bank account. The expatriate need only submit his deposit account or other evidence of income to a Royal Thai Embassy or Thai Consulate which should then issue a non-immigrant visa category "O-A" (long stay), without having to obtain the authorisation of the Immigration Department. This includes applications from tourists applying for a visa for the first time.

 

 

The following qualifications must be satisfied in order to obtain a non- immigrant visa category "O-A" (long stay).

 

1. The applicant must be at least 50 years old.

2. The applicant must not have been prohibited from entering Thailand on a previous occasion.

3. The applicant must provide proof of financial resources from one of the following :

 

* a bank account holding not less than 800,000 Baht

* income from a pension or social welfare of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or

* a bank account and annual income from a pension or social welfare of not less than 800,000 Baht.

 

 

A foreigner holding a non-immigrant visa category "O-A" travelling into the Kingdom will have his passport stamped with a "permission to stay" in the Kingdom for a period not exceeding 1 year from the date of arrival.

 

For more detailed information on the foregoing issues, please contact:

Hatairat Topiboonpong on 0-2344-1263 e-mail address : hatairat.topiboonpong@th.pwcglobal.com

or Ittipol Kongsuwan on 0-2344-1306 or e-mail address : ittipol.kongsuwan@th.pwcglobal.com.

 

 

The Flash Report is issued to PricewaterhouseCoopers clients to keep abreast of ever changing legislation in Thailand which may be of special interest. The information presented should not be used as a substitute for professional advice on an individual basis. Further queries should be made to PricewaterhouseCoopers at the Bangkok office on (662) 02 344-1000

Edited October 8, 2006 by bob2005

[Emil 0]

It seems the biggest problem for you is your own government. I got my retirement visa a little over 2 weeks ago and when I went to the US Embassy in Bangkok to get the certificate stating that I had a pension in excess of 65,000 baht a month, they not only didn't require any proof, they didn't want to see the proof that I had with me. Also the US forms states "pension or other forms of monthly income" so interest income, dividends, rental income among others would all count. I guess the UK government doesn't want you lads leaving the country.

[BigDUSA 71]

20,000 Baht is a LOT of money for no assured solutions - Sounds like Christmas to me.

 

A fair # of expat's had used her service and assured me she was good to go for 20K. I have no idea if there's a new expedited visa service run out of the new immigration office in Jomtiem but with this being LOS. I wouldn't be surprised.

[Gary 4,118]

I would strongly advise anyone getting a retirement visa to do their research and do it by themselves. I have a good friend who used a dodgy service. He DID get his visa but the next year it cost him 35,000 baht to get things back legal. The Thai government is closing loopholes. There used to be visa company who would deposit the 800,000 baht in your account, them take it out when you had your visa. There is now a waiting period of three months. The money must have been in your account three months prior to your retirement visa application.

 

There is no problem using the 800,000 baht for living expenses and topping it back up three months before your visa expires.

[chris2004 67]

I am in a similar position to Richard, have retired in the UK at 51 and am in Pattaya on a non immigrant visa. I might go for a retirement visa next year and could bring over 800,000 baht. My query is does anyone know if this can be put into an interest bearing account or would I lose the interest on this (sat in the UK that could amount to around £500 + pa).

[Soi7 1]

I am in a similar position to Richard, have retired in the UK at 51 and am in Pattaya on a non immigrant visa. I might go for a retirement visa next year and could bring over 800,000 baht. My query is does anyone know if this can be put into an interest bearing account or would I lose the interest on this (sat in the UK that could amount to around £500 + pa).

 

Well regardless what a prevous poster said if you bring that money over with you you may well get knocked back. I got my Retirement Visa in March and was told that it had to be wired in from outside the country to even be considered. Now that said another BM here renewed his Retirement Visa and did not wire in the money to top the account back to 800,000 and they still renewed it for him. So who knows changes depending on who you talk to.

 

As far as Interest I am getting 5.12% on a 10 month CD with Bangkok Bank was a special deal in April.

 

The TMB is offering 5.05 % but not sure the term length.

[Emil 0]

Larry,

 

How does Immigration know that the money came over vie a wire transfer from outside of LOS. Does the bankbook indicate how money is deposited or do you have to provide a copy of the wire transfer to immigration?

[guido13 0]

It seems the biggest problem for you is your own government. I got my retirement visa a little over 2 weeks ago and when I went to the US Embassy in Bangkok to get the certificate stating that I had a pension in excess of 65,000 baht a month, they not only didn't require any proof, they didn't want to see the proof that I had with me. Also the US forms states "pension or other forms of monthly income" so interest income, dividends, rental income among others would all count.

 

Emil

 

What is the name/number of the US form?

 

Guido