Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[wacmedia 277]

Looks like Airbus thinking of hub to hub will beat out Boeings point to point philosiphy, as long as fuel prices remain high.

 

Hi,

 

Looks like a gamble that is going to pay off.

[BigDUSA 71]

And this has precisely what to do with the fact that you claim to have "a 2009 car" but it is many months before 2009 actually arrives lol

 

Title to my car says 2009 Pontiac Vibe and BTW it would help IF you knew what your talking about before you post. Goggle 2009 Pontiac Vibe and get back to me.

[Samsonite 177]

STALWORTH BOEING CUSTOMER BUYS AIRBUS A380S

 

From Reuters

Pure fiction. ANA just announced the formation of a committee to evaluate whether or not they should

buy any very large aircraft. As it is they have been replacing their 747-400s with Boeing 777-300ERs.

[eltib 54]

Pure fiction. ANA just announced the formation of a committee to evaluate whether or not they should

buy any very large aircraft. As it is they have been replacing their 747-400s with Boeing 777-300ERs.

 

Scally, you need to stop hitting the sauce on Sunday. It looks like to me they (ANA) are certain to buy those planes. Probably more certain than when Boeing will make it 1st delivery of the hanger queen.

Edited July 6, 2008 by eltib

[wacmedia 277]

Scally, you need to stop hitting the sauce on Sunday. It looks like to me they (ANA) are certain to buy those planes. Probably more certain than when Boeing will make it 1st delivery of the hanger queen.

 

Hi,

 

For once I've got to disagree with my old mate Scally. Eltib there seems no room for doubt in that article.

Edited July 7, 2008 by wacmedia

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Pure fiction. ANA just announced the formation of a committee to evaluate whether or not they should

buy any very large aircraft. As it is they have been replacing their 747-400s with Boeing 777-300ERs.

 

LOL.

 

 

COPYRIGHT 2006 Japan Corporate News Network K.K.

 

Tokyo, Japan, July 12, 2006 - (JCN Newswire) - The ANA Board of Directors today decided that the company will sell six aircraft from its fleet of 23 Boeing 747-400 jumbo jets to Avion Aircraft Trading of Iceland commencing next year. This aircraft is the largest of the ANA fleet and is used on both domestic and international routes, carrying up to 569 passengers in a domestic configuration. It entered service with ANA in 1990.

 

ANA's current mid-term corporate strategy for the fiscal years 2006 - 2009 (April 1, 2006 - March 31, 2010) encompasses the introduction of newer and more economical aircraft, such as the 737-700 series and 787, to secure better cost performance and raise ANA's competitive edge. The retirement of the 747-400 fleet is also part of the strategy, and will commence from 2007 at the rate of two aircraft per year.

[wacmedia 277]

The retirement of the 747-400 fleet is also part of the strategy, and will commence from 2007 at the rate of two aircraft per year.

 

 

Hi,

 

Wonder what they will order when they mothball the 747 ?

[Samsonite 177]

Scally, you need to stop hitting the sauce on Sunday. It looks like to me they (ANA) are certain to buy those planes. Probably more certain than when Boeing will make it 1st delivery of the hanger queen.

"Wednesday July 9, 2008

 

ANA confirmed to ATWOnline that it has not yet decided to order the A380 as widely reported late last week and in fact has not even issued an RFP. A spokesperson told this website that the airline set up a New Aircraft Selection Committee last week to examine both the A380 and the 747-8. "No RFPs have gone out yet," the spokesperson said, adding that ANA will decide among the 747-8, the A380 or continuing to build its long-haul fleet around the 777-300ER.

 

by Geoffrey Thomas"

 

http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?i...te=7%2F9%2F2008

[BigDUSA 71]

WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Wednesday reopened a bitter $35 billion aerial tanker contest after the selection process that picked Northrop Grumman Corp and EADS over Boeing Co was found to be flawed.

 

 

The contest will now be overseen by John Young, the Pentagon's chief weapons buyer, not the Air Force, and Gates hoped a decision could be reached by December since the current process had already "gone on far too long."

 

"The GAO sustained eight of the slightly more than 100 issues protested with this contract. We will address all of these in the new solicitation, and we will request revised proposals from industry," Gates told reporters.

 

The Air Force contract award in February for 179 new aerial refueling tankers prompted an immediate protest by Boeing and vows of congressional intervention by its backers in Congress.

 

Last month, the Government Accountability Office said it found "significant errors" in the Air Force selection process, and urged the service to redo the competition.

 

The Air Force had been given until mid-August to announce its plans, but Gates rushed forward with a decision to reopen the competition -- given the advanced age of the current KC-135 tanker fleet -- which is used to refuel warplanes in mid-air.

 

Boeing had been expected to win in February with its tanker based on the 767 airliner but the Air Force opted for the larger Northrop entry based on the A330 airliner that is built by EADS's Airbus unit, the European archrival to Boeing.

 

Young said he hoped to issue a new draft request for proposals in late July or early August that would address the issues raised by the GAO and give bidders time to submit fresh bids, possibly with even lower cost estimates.

 

He said the goal was to award a new contract by December, but he would not allow a hurried reexamination of the contract. "We will not expedite steps in the process. We have to do this methodically, fairly and without bias in any way," he said.

 

Young is a strong proponent of building prototypes before picking winners in defense acquisitions, but in this case, he said the Pentagon would still pick a single winning bidder.

 

Having both companies build tankers for the U.S. military would result in higher development, testing, training and maintenance costs, Young said, noting that competition between the two teams had already helped drive down prices.

 

"We do not have the resources" to develop and maintain two separate tanker fleets," Young, the undersecretary of defense for acquisition, told reporters.

 

Young said federal procurement law barred any evaluation of the rival bids' potential impact on preserving the U.S. defense-industrial base, an issue of concern to Boeing backers. Nor were there plans to consider a U.S.-European aircraft subsidy dispute now before the World Trade Organization.

 

In addition to putting Young in charge, the Pentagon will also appoint a new source selection advisory committee to do the detailed analysis of the competing bids.

 

Defense analyst Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute said continuing congressional concerns, a possible World Trade Organization ruling in July on the Boeing-Airbus subsidy dispute, and the sheer complexity of the tanker competition made it unlikely a decision could be reached by December.

 

Jim McAleese, a Virginia-based defense consultant, praised Young's willingness to assume responsibility for the controversial program, and predicted he would do everything in his power to finish work on it before the end of the year.

 

Young acknowledged that he had backed the Air Force's handling of the tanker competition before the GAO decision was released, but said his office's independent review had begun only in December, shortly before the contract award. Another independent review would be done this time around, he said.

 

George Behan, spokesman for Washington Democratic Rep. Norm Dicks, a strong Boeing supporter, said lawmakers still had many questions about how the process would unfold. "The question is, are they willing to concede that we may get to a different outcome and then accept that outcome," he said.

 

Sen. Maria Cantwell, another Washington state Democrat, told Reuters: "What we want to make sure is that the rebid is not just a redo with a rubber stamp 'approved' on it. We want to make sure that ... we don't have another misstep."

 

The 15-year contract is the first of three acquisition phases. The Air Force has said replacing its KC-135 tankers, built by Boeing but now averaging over 47 years of age, as its number-one purchase priority.

 

The GAO, a nonpartisan congressional watchdog, said in upholding Boeing's protest last month that the company would have had a "substantial chance" of being selected if not for flaws in the evaluation process.

 

Amid a broadly lower stock market Boeing shares were up 0.2 percent to $66.05 in afternoon trading, while Northrop shares were off 0.8 percent at $65.65.

[wacmedia 277]

WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Wednesday reopened a bitter $35 billion aerial tanker contest after the selection process that picked Northrop Grumman Corp and EADS over Boeing Co was found to be flawed.

 

Hi,

 

Ah yes. The Americans show their love of the "Free Market" again.

[eltib 54]

Hi,

 

Ah yes. The Americans show their love of the "Free Market" again.

 

It's only a free market as long as Boeing lines the pockets of corrupt politicians. Anyhow I think Boeing will lose again on the tanker contract. They protested when Lockheed won the Deepwater contract, and lost. Now I read there was a whistleblower because Lockheed was overlooking security issues on that program. The contract is in the process of being canceled, with no hope of having Boeing or SAIC taking it over.

[MrMango 661]

Hi,

 

Ah yes. The Americans show their love of the "Free Market" again.

After it was discovered that the winning bid was rigged? - Shurly you jest...

[CheshireTom 1,377]

After it was discovered that the winning bid was rigged? - Shurly you jest...

 

Rigged? You mean the wrong folk won, more like.

[MrMango 661]

Rigged? You mean the wrong folk won, more like.

 

No, I mean what I said..

[CheshireTom 1,377]

The Farnborough Airshow is soon upon us. It'll be interesting to see if Boeing actually acknowledges any cancellations to its order book and whether it identifies any of the customers for its 300+ "unidentified"orders.

 

Meanwhile, with the cost of oil looking set to continue to rise, good news for the A380 ........

 

Prices for older aircraft are already falling. New aircraft that could not be found on the market barely two months ago, such as the Boeing 777 or the Airbus A330 widebody airliners, as well as popular single aisle short and medium-range aircraft, are now freely available. Leasing prices are also coming down.

 

All this is pretty normal in a downturn. In the current cycle, the most exposed sector is likely to be low-cost airlines. But the bigger carriers are also coming under pressure, rationalising their fleets and operations and cutting routes and capacity.

 

Strangely enough, in this morose industry climate, the one aircraft that is likely to weather the developing storm better than most is the giant Airbus A380 jumbo. Dogged by all sorts of industrial problems and production delays, the A380 has been one of the principal causes for all the difficulties and tensions that Airbus and its Franco-German parent EADS have been suffering during the past two years. But now that the group is getting to grips with the problems, the super jumbo, under new project chief Alain Flourens, looks set to fly out of the ashes like the legendary phoenix.

 

Why? Because it is arguably one of the most economical aircraft to operate, offering extremely attractive seat-mile costs and lower fuel consumption per passenger than any rival. It is also designed to serve long distant markets such as the Middle East, Asia-Pacific and other emerging regions far more resistant to the global economic downturn.

 

Airbus and Boeing are clearly worried by the prospects of a slump after the heady industry boom cycle of the past few years. But at least Airbus may be able to take some comfort from the fact that the downturn, ironically, will finally make its huge A380 gamble pay off.

 

It may even offer some consolation for Boeing's victory in launching a new bidding war over the $35bn Pentagon tanker contract, which seems to have slipped out of Airbus's grasp.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

No, I mean what I said..

 

Entirely predictable though given the xenophobic diatribe in the run-up to the award of the contract and that has continued since.

 

 

QUOTE(Hub @ Mar 12 2008, 10:10 PM)

 

Is that your backhanded way of admitting you were wrong relative to the US policy on awarding contracts??

 

Posted by: CheshireTom Feb 1 2008, 11:36 AM

Heh,

 

Obviously, I'd like to see EADS get the order but I think the best they can hope for would be a split order. I just can't envisage that the award of such a large defense order to an overseas player, particularly when they are making such a big noise about EADS being French (it is not), would be politically acceptable in the States

.

 

 

 

Hub,

 

I'll be the first one to hold up my hands and admit that I called that wrong. All credit to the procurement people for staying focussed on choosing the best bit of kit for the job and ignoring the xenophobic furore that went beforehand and has intensified since. That said, given the comments since the award of the contract we're still someway away from the order being seen as being politically acceptable ......... which was the point of the post.

[eltib 54]

After it was discovered that the winning bid was rigged? - Shurly you jest...

 

Yeah the competition was rigged in 2003, not allowing EADS to compete. I wonder what GAO officer will be the next Boeing executive?

Edited July 11, 2008 by eltib

[BigDUSA 71]

The Farnborough Airshow is soon upon us. It'll be interesting to see if Boeing actually acknowledges any cancellations to its order book and whether it identifies any of the customers for its 300+ "unidentified"orders.

 

You know as well as I do that as soon as the unidentified customers gives the OK to Boeing to announce the name on the order Boeing will.

Edited July 11, 2008 by BigDUSA

[MrMango 661]

Yeah the competition was rigged in 2003, not allowing EADS to compete. I wonder what GAO officer will be the next Boeing executive?

I was not talking about 2003, but the latest one, which was rigged the other way.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

You know as well as I do that as soon as the unidentified customers gives the OK to Boeing to announce the order Boeing will.

 

Err, no. They have already announced over 350 orders from "unidentified" customers that are included in their annual orders.

 

They may also get round to announcing some cancellations ........ or are they waiting on the customers to OK that?

[BigDUSA 71]

Err, no. They have already announced over 350 orders from "unidentified" customers that are included in their annual orders.

 

They may also get round to announcing some cancellations ........ or are they waiting on the customers to OK that?

 

I went back and edited my post. I would imagine that cancellations will be announced at the end of the year.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

I went back and edited my post. I would imagine that cancellations will be announced at the end of the year.

 

It's their policy to announce them on a monthly basis, same as Airbus, so that you have gross and net orders. So far this year they've accounted for just one.

[eltib 54]

I was not talking about 2003, but the latest one, which was rigged the other way.

 

OK, do you know who rigged it?

 

Could have it been Gen Myers, former Chairman of the JCS? He's on the Northrop board BTW.

[MrMango 661]

OK, do you know who rigged it?

 

Could have it been Gen Myers, former Chairman of the JCS? He's on the Northrop board BTW.

The way that I read the press accounts, I believe that whoever evaluated the bids used the wrong criteria.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

The way that I read the press accounts, I believe that whoever evaluated the bids used the wrong criteria.

 

I think the problem for the US politicos is that they used the correct criteria.