Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[Samsonite 181]

Now you know why I show negative bias towards Boeing, besides the sexual harassment complaint I filed they never acted on, So

You really need to get over it.

Considering your sad and juvenile use of your fingers, you need to grow up and get over it.

[eltib 54]

You really need to get over it.

Considering your sad and juvenile use of your fingers, you need to grow up and get over it.

 

 

Sorry, I don't take it in the ass when I'm right. blow me.... In fact I don't take it in the ass at all.

Edited May 21, 2007 by eltib

[Hub 203]

Well, IMHO, the best way to see if Boeing is in trouble is to look at their share price over the last year or so,

http://ir.shareholder.com/ba/stock.cfm

Looks pretty good to me.

Looks pretty good to me also up seven bucks from early april when I bought at $90 .

 

Sometimes you can pick up some really good information from this board if you can filter out some of the nonsense.

 

Hub

[Samsonite 181]

Everything you wanted to know about the new Boeing 787,

 

http://www.designnews.com/info/CA6440245.html

[Samsonite 181]

 

 

"Final Assembly Begins on First Boeing 787 Dreamliner

 

EVERETT, Wash., May 21, 2007 -- Final assembly of the all-new Boeing [NYSE: BA] 787 Dreamliner began today with a ceremony in Everett, Wash.

 

"Today we begin assembling the first airplane of a new generation," said Scott Strode, 787 vice president of Airplane Definition and Production. "The 787 not only will revolutionize air travel, it represents a new way of building airplanes."

 

With 568 firm orders from 44 airlines, the 787 is the fastest-selling new airplane in aviation history. The 787 production system was designed using Lean manufacturing techniques in a simplified final assembly process.

 

"The 787 production system is the culmination of the lessons we've learned building previous airplanes," said Steve Westby, 787 vice president of Manufacturing and Quality. "Using composites on the 787 airframe has a number of manufacturing advantages. We are able to build huge structure in just one piece, which means we essentially have six major end items coming together in final assembly -- the forward, center and aft fuselage sections, the wings, the horizontal stabilizer and the vertical fin. "

 

Since the 787 is assembled from these large assemblies rather than many smaller pieces, traditional monument assembly tools are not necessary. Portable tools, designed with ergonomics in mind, move the assemblies into place. No overhead cranes are used to move airplane structure.

 

"A composite airframe also means less waste in production and fewer hazardous materials used during the assembly process," Westby said. "This is good news for the environment and for our team of manufacturing technicians building the airplane."

 

Although the first airplane will take about seven weeks to assemble, the 787 team looks to continuously improve flow time as production ramps up. Ultimately, a 787 will roll out of the factory every three days.

 

The first 787 will roll out of the factory on July 8, 2007."

 

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2007/q2/070521c_nr.html

Edited May 21, 2007 by Scalawag

[wacmedia 277]

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2007/q2/070521c_nr.html[/url]

 

 

Hi,

 

Its amusing how you guys always quote an objective independent source.

[BigDUSA 71]

Hi,

 

Its amusing how you guys always quote an objective independent source.

 

At least they are coming out with a firm date for the roll out compared to the almost endless delays the Airbus 380 is encountering.

[wacmedia 277]

At least they are coming out with a firm date for the roll out compared to the almost endless delays the Airbus 380 is encountering.

 

Hi,

 

Yeah, but what condition will the plane be in and when will it gain its permission to fly from the relevant authorities ? We, as Europeans, tend to be more ethical people, and tend not to rely on spin and propaganda to cover over any problems we are encountering.

[eltib 54]

Hi,

 

Yeah, but what condition will the plane be in and when will it gain its permission to fly from the relevant authorities ? We, as Europeans, tend to be more ethical people, and tend not to rely on spin and propaganda to cover over any problems we are encountering.

 

I'll reinforce your statement with some names. I've also included some notes from natinally published newsclips I've collected.

 

Phil Condit

 

He also developed a reputation as a womanizer, often with Boeing employees, and an appetite for the high life. In a hiatus between one of his four marriages, Condit took up residence in the Boeing suite at Seattle's Four Seasons Olympic Hotel, where he had the suite remodeled at company expense to add a bedroom, say some people who are familiar with the matter.

 

Harry Stonecipher - this is an opinion from one of the many newswriters covering his scandal

 

Stonecipher case validates my theory of the 3 principles

St. Louis Post-Dispatch 03/10/05

author: Bill McClellan

(Copyright 2005)

 

 

 

Good morning, class. We have a special topic this morning - Harry Stonecipher. He used to be the CEO at Boeing. He's a living, breathing example of three principles I'm always trying to drill into your heads.

 

Women are smarter than men.

 

Bosses are overpaid.

 

Don't e-mail.

 

I hope I don't have to spend too much time on the first principle. It ought to be as evident as gravity. Way back when the Great Spirit molded us out of clay, She noticed that the man was bigger and stronger than the woman. This wouldn't do. If life were to be interesting, the two sexes had to be equal. Consequently, She said to her assistant, "Give me some of that dumb-juice, that testosterone," and the assistant did, and he handed it to Her and She injected it into the man. At least, that's the intelligent-design theory.

 

There are evolutionists out there, even here in a Red state, who will argue that women evolved into smarter creatures precisely because they were smaller. It was a compensatory thing. That's a nice theory, but it doesn't explain testosterone, does it?

 

You see, we're not just talking about book smarts. For all we know, Stonecipher might have been a National Merit Scholar. But brains did him no good at all. No, sirree. Less than a year and a half ago, he was brought out of retirement to lead Boeing after a series of scandals forced the company to do something dramatic. So Stonecipher came back; and with great fanfare, he hired outside ethics consultants and established an ethics hot line.

 

"You can rest assured that we will investigate every tip, and if we find out that somebody did something they shouldn't have, we will deal with it swiftly and summarily," he told the Wall Street Journal last year.

 

Then he began an affair and somebody hot-lined him.

 

By the way, Stonecipher is 68. Maybe when the board talked him out of retirement, they figured he was past the dangerous age. In that connection, it seems to me that Viagra is not necessarily a good thing. If I were on a board, I'd drug-test every CEO over 55.

 

Our second principle also ought to be self-evident. Bosses are overpaid. I have long felt that most companies would be run just as well by a random employee. Yes, a random employee. Pick anybody. Pay him or her a tenth of what you pay the current boss and you'd probably be getting a value.

 

Stonecipher's salary last year was $1.5 million with a target bonus of the same amount. You think one of the engineers wouldn't have done just as well for $300,000? What's the worst that could have happened? The engineer would have done something stupid and been forced to resign. Well?

 

I remember when Stonecipher made about $40 million, in 1995 when he was running McDonnell Douglas. I thought that was excessive. Sure, the company made some profits, but who were the customers? They were us, the taxpayers. I thought we should have gotten refunds. And do you remember his management team? They reminded me of leg breakers. His No. 1 guy was Herb Lanese, who said this of their business competitors: "I wish they were dead. I wish their children would starve to death. I wish they would lose their houses."

 

No wonder the company got sold.

 

Our third point has to do with e-mails. They are dangerous! Nobody should have understood that more than the gang at Boeing. It was a series of e-mails that got them in trouble with the government regarding illegal employment discussions with an Air Force official who oversaw the company's contracts. Contracts were lost. People went to prison. Doesn't anybody learn from previous mistakes?

 

Not our Harry. The hot line tipster, who remains anonymous, reportedly included an excerpt from a "very graphic" e-mail Stonecipher had sent his lover.

 

Think about that for a second. A married man running a company that has been dogged by scandals has an affair with a subordinate and sends her a "very graphic" e-mail. Men. Bosses. E-mail. What a disaster. Here's hoping that Boeing finds a good woman to put things back together.

 

 

 

Mike Sears

 

In an unusually blunt statement yesterday, Boeing said Sears was fired by its board because he had offered a Boeing job to an Air Force official in the midst of negotiating a $21 billion deal for 100 Boeing-made tankers, and that Sears had tried to conceal his behavior from the company's in-house investigation. There was no mourning among Boeing's unions, who saw Sears as part of the Boeing leadership that had moved company headquarters from Seattle to Chicago, presided over a dramatic loss of market share to European rival Airbus, and carried out 40,000 job cuts to maintain profitability amidst a severe aerospace-industry recession.

 

 

Darleen Druyun I have to put her in an attachment. I love how Sears got her worthless daughter a job in HR. No wonder why I had so many problems with HR reps at Boeing.

 

all crooked former Boeing McD execs.

 

There are still some in Boeing,

 

Albaugh didn't get it because he managed to cover up the 767 tanker fiasco. But he knew about it.

 

McNerny just hasn't weeded them out yet.

Edited May 22, 2007 by eltib

[wacmedia 277]

I'll reinforce your statement with some names.

 

Phil Condit

 

Harry Stonecipher

 

Mike Sears

 

Darleen Druyun

 

all crooked former Boeing McD execs.

 

Hi,

 

Sure sounds like a rogues gallery.

[eltib 54]

Hi,

 

Sure sounds like a rogues gallery.

 

Go back and read the additions I've added to it You can see how much data I've collected in the past 11 years. That's all data, no programs.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Thats a lot of files. Who would have thought that ethical practices at Boeing would have had led to so many files of information ? It must be worse than even it's worst critics can imagine.

[Hub 203]

Hi,

 

Yeah, but what condition will the plane be in and when will it gain its permission to fly from the relevant authorities ? We, as Europeans, tend to be more ethical people, and tend not to rely on spin and propaganda to cover over any problems we are encountering.

 

Are you serious?

 

What a loser.

[wacmedia 277]

Are you serious?

 

What a loser.

 

 

Hi,

 

[Samsonite 181]

Are you serious?

 

What a loser.

They are both major losers and painfully naive if they thing these same things or worst haven't happened in Europe. But, hell, you can't reason with fools and this is a perfect example. When confronted with facts, in this case, Boeing is building a new airplane on time, they resort to personal attacks on individuals in an effort to draw attention away from the accomplishment.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Scalawag

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

I think some boardies are jealous because they realize some people like eltib have a lifetimes experience in the avaition industry, and more knowledge than them. I, personally don't claim expertise, just interest, in the industry.

[Samsonite 181]

I think some boardies are jealous......

Another perfect example of the inability of some to have an intelligent discussion on any subject without getting personal.

Edited May 22, 2007 by Scalawag

[eltib 54]

Hi,

 

Thats a lot of files.

 

 

Yeah and there are 2 backups JIC I lose my EHD.

 

When I first consulted an attorney some 10 years ago, and showed him a fraction of what I had, he replied to me,

 

"If I had clients that documented as well as you, I'd never lose a case."

 

I hope it doesn't come to that, for you may see it on Court TV.

Edited May 22, 2007 by eltib

[eltib 54]

Another perfect example of the inability of some to have an intelligent discussion on any subject without getting personal.

 

OK, I'll put an intelligent post to mind. I wonder if Boeing is going to train its customers mechanics in the art of composite repair? And help them set up their own maintenance facilities to do it. Or is Boeing going to establish a mod / maintenance center for all these 500+ 787s, and charge a pretty penny to the airlines, which will be reflected in higher ticket prices to the travelling public?

 

Whatever, it sounds like this airplane will be like the Edsel in the long run. It will probably go that way too.

 

Air Force base does composite repair for B-2 and F117s

 

How really safe are composites?

Edited May 22, 2007 by eltib

[Samsonite 181]

OK, I'll put an intelligent post to mind. I wonder if Boeing is going to train its customers mechanics in the art of composite repair? And help them set up their own maintenance facilities to do it. Or is Boeing going to establish a mod / maintenance center for all these 500+ 787s, and charge a pretty penny to the airlines, which will be reflected in higher ticket prices to the travelling public?

Already been done.

They have two kits available for the airlines. One will dry in an hour or two and will be good until the next scheduled maintenance. This will be good in cases of "ramp rash" where a ground vehicle bumps into an aircraft. The other system takes about 12 hours or so to dry, but will last the life of the airframe.

BTW, your Air Force related article is dated, 20 January 2000.

 

Your article, "How really safe are composites?" is dated, 13 December 2001, a month after the crash in question.

I believe what they eventually found out was the vertical tail fin on that Airbus wasn't even bolted on, it was glued on. Since that time Airbus has gone back and retrofitted each such aircraft with nuts and bolts to make sure that doesn't happen again.

Edited May 23, 2007 by Scalawag

[Hub 203]

Already been done.

They have two kits available for the airlines. One will dry in an hour or two and will be good until the next scheduled maintenance. This will be good in cases of "ramp rash" where a ground vehicle bumps into an aircraft. The other system takes about 12 hours or so to dry, but will last the life of the airframe.

BTW, your Air Force related article is dated, 20 January 2000.

 

Your article, "How really safe are composites?" is dated, 13 December 2001, a month after the crash in question.

I believe what they eventually found out was the vertical tail fin on that Airbus wasn't even bolted on, it was glued on. Since that time Airbus has gone back and retrofitted each such aircraft with nuts and bolts to make sure that doesn't happen again.

 

Great rebuttal on the seven year old articles

 

Also, Eltib's post above on former Boeng employees do nothing to support the claim that "problems being encountered are being covered up" with the new Boeing lne of aircraft.

 

Sorry to say and hate to cause offense, but the diatribes and triple backed up hard drives on supposed company dirt reeks of a disgruntled former employee with an axe to grind. Tough to take his take on the new boeing products without a grain of salt, regardless of his former profession.

 

Hub

[MrMango 665]

I think some boardies are jealous because they realize some people like have a lifetimes experience in the avaition industry, and more knowledge than them. I, personally don't claim expertise, just interest, in the industry.

Well, How much flying experience does he have? Zero. End of subject.

 

OK, I'll put an intelligent post to mind. I wonder if Boeing is going to train its customers mechanics in the art of composite repair? And help them set up their own maintenance facilities to do it. Or is Boeing going to establish a mod / maintenance center for all these 500+ 787s, and charge a pretty penny to the airlines, which will be reflected in higher ticket prices to the travelling public?

It's called 'Free Enterprise" - Get it? If Boeing charged too much for repair, then the airlines would not buy them, and buy Airbus.

 

 

Whatever, it sounds like this airplane will be like the Edsel in the long run. It will probably go that way too.

Your bias is showing again, big time. The stock market does not share your pessimism, and there is a lot of heavy hitters there.

[Sammy 30]

I am not an engineer, nor have I ever worked for an aerospace company. There was a Bristow helicopter crash in the North Sea in 1995 due to a lightning strike. The crash investigation concluded that the carbon fibre rotor blade somehow intensified the lightning. The British government basically covered up the investigation results. I am not clear if Anti-Lightning strike fasteners invented since then have been proven to do the job. Not sure I will want to fly on a 787 for a few years.

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/busi...9_boeing05.html

Edited May 23, 2007 by Sammy

[Samsonite 181]

I am not an engineer, nor have I ever worked for an aerospace company. There was a Bristow helicopter crash in the North Sea in 1995 due to a lightning strike. The crash investigation concluded that the carbon fibre rotor blade somehow intensified the lightning. The British government basically covered up the investigation results. I am not clear if Anti-Lightning strike fasteners invented since then have been proven to do the job. Not sure I will want to fly on a 787 for a few years.

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/busi...9_boeing05.html

That article was Dated March 5, 2006, and the technology moves quickly.

You don't spend this much time and money on a project and not cover such a situation. There is too much a stake to take the risk of losing a plane and then the market because someone didn't think to install a lightning arrestor.

 

Following your line of thinking, you better not fly on any Airbus 340s since it was stated in the article you referenced that ".....the Airbus A340, which carries fuel in its composite horizontal tail — a structure as big as the wing on a narrow-body jet. More than 300 of those operate worldwide, with no reports of lightning problems since first flight in 1991."

Edited May 23, 2007 by Scalawag

[wacmedia 277]

How really safe are composites?

 

It's not that composites are perfect. They're expensive. And they can be brittle, says Douglas Cusack, a composite engineer at Trek Bicycle in Waterloo, Wis. In other words, once fibers start coming apart, they can fail catastrophically

 

Hi,

 

Good article. I think we should applaud Boeing for trying this technology for the first time on such a large passenger jet. It smacks to me of betting the farm. If it comes off it will be a worthwhile advance for passenger airline technology. If it fails......?