Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Once again tommie's whistling in the wind. The Martians are on time and within specs. It's the poor Italians and Brits who seem to be having so many 'troubles' with quality.

 

OOOps, again!

 

Apparently some other folks are having their own problems ...

 

"Aviation Week says that deliveries of the 787 Dreamline will be delayed again which should put more pressure on CEO W Jame McNerney, Jr. to resign. He joined the company on July 1, 2005. That is about the time that development of the 787 began, so the multiple setbacks that Boeing has had to announce about late deliveries have all happened while he has been chief executive.

 

“Boeing has told several of its early 787 customers about delivery delays of up to 10 months”, industry sources told the publication".

 

 

There again, maybe the magazine made the story up.

[Samsonite 181]

Didn't the one of the RR engines being fitted to the Dreamliner test planes suffer a catastrophic failure a month or two back? What happened there? Is Boeing continuing with the the aircraft, or what?

The 787 is available with either Rolls or GE engines. Unfortunately, the launch customer, ANA, selected

the Rolls power plant for their aircraft. Then there is the on going problem of poor craftsmanship from

their Italian subcontractor. And, just this last Friday, Pratt Whitney filed suit against Rolls and is trying to

stop delivery of the Rolls Trent 1000 engines to Boeing.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=12070080

 

"Pratt & Whitney Fans Dispute With Rolls-Royce

Jet engine maker Pratt & Whitney steps up patent-infringement complaint against Rolls-Royce

The Associated Press

WASHINGTON November 5, 2010 (AP)

 

Jet engine maker Pratt & Whitney is raising the stakes in a dispute with rival Rolls-Royce by seeking to stop shipments of Rolls-Royce engines for Boeing's next passenger jetliner.

 

Pratt & Whitney said Friday it filed patent-infringement complaints against the British company at the U.S. International Trade Commission and the U.K. High Court.

 

The dispute centers on who owns the designs for fan blades used in modern commercial airliners.

 

Rolls-Royce is competing with General Electric Co. to build engines for Boeing's new 787, which is made of lighter composite materials and designed to be fuel-efficient. The plane is in the final stages of flight-testing. Boeing had planned to begin delivering the plane to airlines early next year, but Aviation Week reported Friday that Boeing has told customers to expect a delay of up to 10 months.

 

Pratt & Whitney's patent-infringement challenge also covers another Rolls-Royce engine that is used in the giant Airbus A380 jetliner.

 

Pratt & Whitney, a unit of United Technologies Corp., says Rolls-Royce's Trent 900 and Trent 1000 engines use fan-blade designs that the U.S. company invented.

 

 

The companies were already fighting in federal courts in Connecticut, where Pratt & Whitney is based, and Virginia. Rolls-Royce sued Pratt & Whitney earlier this year for patent infringement, and Pratt & Whitney filed a countersuit in September.

 

Pratt & Whitney claims that Rolls-Royce hid information about existing patents to get the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office to approve its fan-blade technology.

 

United Technologies said it spent decades developing its geared turbofan jet engine, and Rolls-Royce, lacking a similar engine, was trying to undercut a joint venture between Pratt & Whitney and GE to build engines for the Airbus A380, the world's largest passenger plane in production.

 

Pratt & Whitney said Rolls-Royce had failed three times to win patent office approval for an engine part called the fan stage, which is a set of blades on a rotating hub."

Edited November 6, 2010 by Samsonite

[Samsonite 181]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101108/ap_on_...antas_emergency

 

"Qantas CEO: Oil leaks in 3 engines of its A380s

By KRISTEN GELINEAU, Associated Press – Mon Nov 8, 6:30 am ET

 

SYDNEY – Tests have uncovered oil leaks in three Rolls-Royce engines on Qantas' grounded Airbus A380s, the airline's CEO said Monday, as engineers tried to zero in on the cause of an engine failure on board one of the carrier's superjumbo jets last week.

 

Australia's national carrier grounded its six double-decker A380s, the world's newest and largest airliner, after an engine burst minutes into a flight from Singapore to Sydney last week, scattering debris over Indonesia's Batam island. The plane made a safe emergency landing in Singapore.

 

Engineers conducted eight hours of extensive checks on each engine over the weekend.

 

On Monday, CEO Alan Joyce said engineers have discovered oil leaks in the turbine area of three engines on three different A380s.

 

"The oil leaks were beyond normal tolerances," Joyce told reporters. "So Rolls-Royce and our engineers have looked at what we have gathered as an accepted level and they have passed that threshold."

 

"All of these engines are new engines on a new aircraft type," he added. "The engines are not performing to the parameters that you would expect with this."

 

Because of that, he said, all of the airline's A380s will be grounded for at least an additional 72 hours.

 

"We are not going to take any risks whatsoever," Joyce said. "We want to make sure we have a 100 percent safe operation."

 

All three affected engines have been removed from the planes for further testing, and will be replaced with spare engines the airline has on hand, Joyce said.

 

"As a consequence, it's now narrowing our focus on that issue," he said.

 

Lufthansa and Singapore Airlines, the other airlines that fly A380s fitted with Rolls-Royce's Trent 900 engines, also briefly grounded their planes last week but resumed services after completing checks.

 

The Qantas engineers are working with Rolls-Royce, who manufactured and maintains the engines, as well as Airbus.

 

Shares in Rolls-Royce Group PLC slumped almost 4 percent to 568.5 pence ($9.18) Monday morning on the London Stock Exchange. They lost more than 5 percent last week after Thursday's in-flight incident.

 

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau, which is leading an international investigation into the blowout on the A380, appealed for help from residents of Indonesia's Batam island to find a missing piece of a turbine disc.

 

The island was scattered with debris last Thursday when one of the A380's four engines failed minutes into a flight to Sydney, with 466 people aboard. The engine was quickly shut down and the plane returned to Singapore and safely made an emergency landing.

 

"The recovery of that disk could be crucial to a full understanding of the nature of the engine failure, and may have implications for the prevention of future similar occurrences," the bureau said in a statement.

 

It released a photograph of a jagged and bent piece of turbine disc from the Trent 900 engine and asked that anyone who might have found a similar piece should hand it to police.

 

It said one piece of the shattered engine that had been found on Batam was being sent to Britain for examination by Rolls-Royce engineers, under the supervision of bureau investigators. Extra experts were being sent from Australia to Singapore to examine other debris.

 

Rolls-Royce Group PLC, a London-based aerospace, power systems and defense company separate from the car manufacturer, could not immediately be reached for comment Monday. The company has said the investigation is in its early stages and that it is too early to draw any conclusions.

 

John Goglia, a former National Transportation Safety Board member and an expert on aircraft maintenance, said the photo showing the broken turbine disc indicates it was the disc that may have failed. The photo didn't show any signs of discoloration on the disc that would indicate overheating.

 

There are several reasons why a disc might fail, but they usually involve the metal used to make the disc or the manufacturing method, Goglia said. He cautioned that he was looking at one photo, which was not enough information to make a definitive judgment.

 

Qantas passengers stranded by the grounding of the A380s are expected to be flown to their destinations within 24 hours, Joyce said. The airline is adding flights from London and Los Angeles to help clear the backlog.

 

Joyce would not specify how much the airline has lost since the engine explosion, nor would he comment on whether Qantas plans to seek compensation from Rolls-Royce.

 

"We are working with Airbus and Rolls-Royce to fix this issue — that's our top priority and compensation talks will take place after the aircraft are back in the air," he said.

 

(This version CORRECTS Corrects percentage of decline in Rolls-Royce stock price. This story is part of AP's general news and financial services.)"

[joekicker 53]

"Pratt & Whitney Fans Dispute With Rolls-Royce

Jet engine maker Pratt & Whitney steps up patent-infringement complaint against Rolls-Royce

 

Irony, thy name is P&W.

 

So the Prats WIN their case. Which proves that Rolls Royce engines are just like P&W. Which proves that P&W engines are just like RR.

 

Well, now, that's a confidence builder for us flyers, eh?

 

.

[BigDUSA 71]

Earth to Mars, Earth to Mars. Calling all Martians. The hits keep on coming for Rolls Royce. New engines explode/ leak oil. Whose to blame? tommie wants to know?

[TheFiend 1,181]

Earth to Mars, Earth to Mars. Calling all Martians. The hits keep on coming for Rolls Royce. New engines explode/ leak oil. Whose to blame? tommie wants to know?

 

The way you yanks are going on about it, you would think American Built airplanes or engines have never had a mechanical failure!!!!

[CheshireTom 1,377]

The way you yanks are going on about it, you would think American Built airplanes or engines have never had a mechanical failure!!!!

 

It's a trait a lot of them have - someone's got to be blamed. Doesn't matter what it is - man-made or natural. Rolls will sort out the issue, whatever it is, and the mishap will be referred to as a "successful failure". You've got to wonder how much they'd be celebrating if the Aussie Capt hadn't managed to return the aircraft to Singapore successfully though.

 

"A complete disintegration of a CF6-6 fan assembly ..."

 

"Four uncontained failures of CF6-45/50 engines ..."

 

"The CF6-80 series ... following a series of high-pressure turbine failures ..."

 

"In another embarrassing maintenance blunder involving the aviation industry, General Electric Co. disclosed it is working with carriers and U.S. regulators to resolve questions about improperly certified parts in dozens of its jet engines ..."

 

I remember BigD insisting this thread was about Boeing v Airbus and wasn't a thinly disguised attempt at nation bashing ...

[BigDUSA 71]

You've got to wonder how much they'd be celebrating if the Aussie Capt hadn't managed to return the aircraft to Singapore successfully though.

 

Just when you think tommie can't sink any lower. He writes the above. Sad and lame.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Just when you think tommie can't sink any lower. He writes the above. Sad and lame.

 

Sheesh! Who's a clever boy then? Slicing and dicing quotes now. Well done!

[BigDUSA 71]

Sheesh! Who's a clever boy then? Slicing and dicing quotes now. Well done!

 

Your words exactly as you wrote them and not taken out of context. Like I said sad and lame.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Your words exactly as you wrote them and not taken out of context. Like I said sad and lame.

 

No-one suggested they weren't an accurate quote, or taken out of context. If I had, you would have been able to use the Quote function to demonstrate that I had. I only congratulated you on finally, after all those years, mastering the ability to slice and dice.

Edited November 9, 2010 by CheshireTom

[BigDUSA 71]

Boeing management is telling Wall Street that the two-dozen 787 Dreamliners already rolled out onto Paine Field are "in various stages of final assembly" and their delivery "will take longer than expected, particularly those with the Rolls-Royce engine," an analyst reported Tuesday.

 

In a note to investors, Robert Stallard, aerospace analyst with RBC Capital Markets, relayed the news after briefings from Boeing senior management in Chicago, including CEO Jim McNerney.

 

Stallard concluded that after the initial Dreamliner is given to All Nippon Airways in mid-February, the ramp-up of 787 deliveries will likely be "longer and shallower" than previously expected.

 

He projected just two dozen Dreamliner deliveries in all of 2011.

 

Previously, Wall Street analysts had been projecting around 80 deliveries next year.

 

Although the jets rolled out so far are painted in the livery of the airlines that will eventually take them, much of the interior installation work is missing due to earlier supply-chain problems.

 

The Rolls-Royce engine is a specific problem because Rolls is working to apply a fix to its engines after one blew up during a ground test in England in August.

 

Of the 25 Dreamliners that have so far rolled out through the Everett assembly plant's doors to the flight line, 17 are to be fitted with Rolls-Royce engines.

 

After those early airplanes are delivered, Stallard said, Boeing's leadership believes the supply-chain pipeline will flow more smoothly.

 

"McNerney thinks that most of the risk in the ramp-up process will be retired after the first 40-50 deliveries," Stallard reported.

 

Stallard offered better news on production of Boeing's other jets.

 

While the 787 assembly line will stay sluggish at best, the other assembly lines will be pumping out jets faster than they have ever done.

 

Stallard said McNerney indicated the production rate of the Everett-built 777 wide-body, at five aircraft per month but set to rise next summer to seven per month, could go even higher depending on the progress Airbus makes with its rival A350-1000.

 

And the analyst said McNerney may push output of the Renton-built 737 single-aisle — now at 31.5 jets per month — even beyond the 38 per month scheduled for 2013.

QUOTE

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Oops ...

 

The BigD "Kiss of Death" strikes again ...

 

Boeing Dreamliner makes emergency landing during test flight

By the CNN Wire Staff

November 10, 2010 -- Updated 0315 GMT (1115 HKT)

 

 

(CNN) -- A new Boeing 787 Dreamliner made an emergency landing in south Texas during a test flight Tuesday afternoon after the pilot reported smoke in the cabin, the Federal Aviation Administration said.

The jetliner landed at Laredo International Airport at 2:54 p.m. after the flight crew reported smoke in the cabin at the back of the twin-engine aircraft, FAA spokesman Lynn Lunsford said. Those aboard evacuated using the plane's slides, Lunsford said.

Boeing spokeswoman Lori Gunter said the crew "safely evacuated the airplane," which was met by emergency crews on the runway.

"We are continuing to gather data regarding this event," Gunter told CNN in a written statement. "It's too early" to tell what may have gone wrong," she added.

 

 

 

Electrical fire forces emergency landing of 787 test plane

 

By Dominic Gates

Seattle Times aerospace reporter

 

A serious in-flight fire in the electrical-equipment bay of a Boeing 787 Dreamliner flight-test plane forced an emergency landing Tuesday in Laredo, Texas. All 30 to 40 people aboard were safely evacuated on slides.

 

The fire affected the cockpit controls and the jet lost its primary flight displays and its auto-throttle, according to a person familiar with the incident. The pilot lost some use of the flight and engine controls, which on the Dreamliner are electrically activated, the source said.

 

The smoke in the back of the cabin of Dreamliner No. 2, where a team of technicians sat at computer workstations monitoring the flight data, was first detected on approach to the Laredo airport after six hours of flying.

Edited November 10, 2010 by CheshireTom

[Samsonite 181]

"Singapore Airlines pulls 3 A380s due to engines

By KRISTEN GELINEAU, Associated Press – 1 hr 16 mins ago

 

SYDNEY – Singapore Airlines pulled three of its A380 superjumbos from service Wednesday after tests uncovered problems with the planes' Rolls-Royce engines less than a week after an engine on a Qantas A380 exploded shortly after take-off.

 

Tests revealed oil stains in three engines on three of the airline's A380s, Singapore Airlines said in a statement. The planes, in Melbourne, Sydney and London, will be flown to Singapore, where they'll be fitted with new engines, the airline said.

 

"We apologise to our customers for flight disruptions that may result and we seek their understanding," airline spokesman Nicholas Ionides said in a statement.

 

Last week, Qantas grounded its fleet of A380s — the world's newest and largest airliner — after one of the aircraft's Rolls-Royce engines burst during a flight from Singapore to Sydney. The explosion showered debris over Indonesia's Batam island. The plane, carrying 466 people, made a safe emergency landing in Singapore.

 

On Monday, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce said tests had uncovered oil leaks in the turbine area of three engines on three different A380s. All six of the Australian airline's A380s remained grounded Wednesday....."

 

Rest of the story here, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101110/ap_on_...superjumbo_woes

[BigDUSA 71]

Years ago a buddy bought a English BSA motorcycle and he never had to change the oil. Why? The bike leaked oil like a sieve and it looks like Rolls Royce continues the English motor companies tradition of being unable to build engines that don't leak.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Years ago a buddy bought a English BSA motorcycle and he never had to change the oil. Why? The bike leaked oil like a sieve and it looks like Rolls Royce continues the English motor companies tradition of being unable to build engines that don't leak.

 

Showing a poor judgement in the choice of motor vehicles seems to be a common trait around your way. BSA, Yugo, Pontiac Vibe .....

 

Maybe you could start a thread ... "GE Kicks Euro Butt" or something along those lines.

 

Anyway, kudos to the flight crew of the Dreamliner in averting what could have been much more serious incident than it eventually turned out.

Edited November 10, 2010 by CheshireTom

[Samsonite 181]

"DATE:10/11/10

SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence news

Lufthansa's first A380 has 'precautionary' engine change

By David Kaminski-Morrow

 

German flag-carrier Lufthansa has become the latest carrier to undertake an engine change on its Airbus A380 fleet, switching a single powerplant on its first airframe.

 

The airline is one of three carriers to use the Rolls-Royce Trent 900, currently under scrutiny following the uncontained failure on a Qantas A380.

 

Lufthansa changed a single engine on the airframe registered D-AIMA, the first A380 delivered to the airline. The jet is just six months old having arrived in mid-May...."

 

Rest of the story here, http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/...ine-change.html

[TheFiend 1,181]

For all you American scaremongers....

 

Rolls-Royce has ruled out any connection between the recent uncontained Trent 900 engine failure on a Qantas Airways Airbus A380 and an uncontained failure which occurred on a Trent 1000 in August on a test bed at the manufacturer's facility in Derby.

 

Rolls-Royce says it has "made progress in understanding the cause" of the 4 November incident, which occurred on a Qantas A380 en route from Singapore to Sydney, and has determined that "this incident is specific to the Trent 900 engine".

 

Checks and inspections are now being carried out with operators of Trent 900-powered A380s, which in addition to Qantas includes Lufthansa and Singapore Airlines.

 

"These are being progressively completed, which is allowing a resumption of operation of aircraft in full compliance with all safety standards," says Rolls-Royce.

 

"We can be certain that the separate Trent 1000 event which occurred in August 2010 on a test bed in Derby is unconnected," adds the manufacturer.

 

Rolls-Royce points out that last week's engine failure was "the first of its kind to occur on a large civil Rolls-Royce engine since 1994".

 

Qantas said earlier today that investigations had narrowed on an oil leakage in the turbine area of the engine.

 

Full article here

 

First of it's kind since 1994..... so not exactly a regular occurrence, is it?

[joekicker 53]

First of it's kind since 1994..... so not exactly a regular occurrence, is it? allright

 

When things like this happen in bunches, it's a bit scary. USUALLY it means nothing at all. But every so often there's a Constellation-type of serious problem, where a sudden flurry of problems really is a super-big killer-problem. Catastrophic failure of one engine is a bitxh but not necessarily a biggie. Then they find a bunch of possible, who-knows-what problems with other kinds of that engine, so it gets a lot of publicity.

 

Probably it's coincidence and no big thing. Possibly it's not. But either case, it's going to get front page for a while. Nothing personal. If a 787 has another emergency landing this week, it will push Rolls Royce off the front page.

 

.

[bigdelta 46]

It was a scheduled landing in Laredo.It DID NOT land there because of the fire.The flight was scheduled from Yuma to Laredo.It was made under emergency conditions.And it was,as my guess,having to do with the myriad of test equipment on board,not a faulut of the operating systems themselves.

[joekicker 53]

It was a scheduled landing in Laredo.It DID NOT land there because of the fire.The flight was scheduled from Yuma to Laredo.It was made under emergency conditions.And it was,as my guess,having to do with the myriad of test equipment on board,not a faulut of the operating systems themselves.

 

I'm not following. Are you saying it was not a real emergency landing, that the airplane was not evacuated by slides and so on? If so, any cites? The Seattle papers are pretty credible on Boeing stuff.

 

If you're not saying that, I don't get the point.

 

Edit: This just in, literally. Jeez..

 

US aerospace giant Boeing on Wednesday halted all test flights of the new 787 Dreamliner aircraft following a fire aboard a test plane late Tuesday.

 

"We have decided to focus on ground testing and not fly the airplanes until we better understand the incident on ZA002,'' Loretta Gunter, a Boeing spokeswoman, told AFP.

 

"Ground testing" an airplane - sounds like driving to me.

 

.

Edited November 10, 2010 by joekicker

[TheFiend 1,181]

It was a scheduled landing in Laredo.It DID NOT land there because of the fire.The flight was scheduled from Yuma to Laredo.It was made under emergency conditions.And it was,as my guess,having to do with the myriad of test equipment on board,not a faulut of the operating systems themselves.

 

Boeing obviously think it is a serious problem if they have halted all test flights.

[villayouth 37]

ive never read this thread but it seems boring as fuck to me and its 80 od pages fuckin long ffs

[jacko 8,814]

ive never read this thread but it seems boring as fuck to me and its 80 od pages fuckin long ffs

Little Villa is big enough to climb out of his playpen now!

[BigDUSA 71]

ive never read this thread but it seems boring as fuck to me and its 80 od pages fuckin long ffs

 

If you want to check out a boring topic check out 'what a cunt' in the members forum. Now there's a boring thread. One of many the same guy starts.