Live Ins (Wannabes)

[Shilo 371]

Someone started a thread on Live-ins which got some interesting responses.

 

But I'd like to ask a simular question with a different twist. I've been going to Pattaya very 3 or 4 months for the past several years. I guess maybe 20 trips by now. At the moment I'm going through withdrawals because my last trip was back in Feb and I don't see myself making another one till early next year. That's because this next trip will be with a open return ticket and a retirement visa in hand

 

20 trips tells me that I'm not a newbie but I also know enough to know what I don't know

 

Would anyone like to fill me in on the changes you went through after making the big move. There has to be a major difference between how you are viewed by the ladies when you live in Pattaya vs being on holiday. I remember the warnings in the newbie section to never bf a bird from a bar on the same street as your hotel... it could cause problems when you bring a different bird to your room a few nights later. Try not to take more then one bird from any given bar because when you go back later and take a different bird from the same bar later you run the risk of causing someone to lose face. Or be careful when you keep the same lady for 3,4 or more nights in a row because it will get harder to cut her loose when she start to see herself as your "one and only"...

 

Some of these girls are looking for sponsors but prefer the guy who comes into town, falls for their magic and then goes home but sends the monthly checks. And lucky is the girl that can juggle several of these guys at once. But there are other girls who are just looking for a full time live-in "job" so they have someone to take care of them and not have to work in the bars.

 

Any stories or advice along these lines?

 

Shilo (35 more weeks)

[BigDUSA 71]

You can save yourself a lot of aggro by following your own advice plus let the BG know your a butterfly and not interested in having a liv in.

 

Plus buy an in room safe to store all your valuables in.

[Shit_Happens 31]

I have found the smart ladies will take care of a resident better than a tourist because they understand if you like them you will come back again and again over a long period of time thus generating a regular income for them.

Some will not show much interest wanting to chase big bucks over a short time from holidaying farangs but there are so many ladies who cares.

But I would suggest never bring a lady back to your room until you feel you know her well and are comfortable she will not turn into a stalker

[Shilo 371]

I have found the smart ladies will take care of a resident better than a tourist because they understand if you like them you will come back again and again over a long period of time thus generating a regular income for them.

Some will not show much interest wanting to chase big bucks over a short time from holidaying farangs but there are so many ladies who cares.

But I would suggest never bring a lady back to your room until you feel you know her well and are comfortable she will not turn into a stalker A short time room will only cost 200bht or less.

 

Thanks, this is what I was looking for when I started this thread. I think it was Hilly who once said that you can always tell an expat from a tourist... the expats are the ones sitting at the bar with their backs to the ladies on the stage, seen it, done it, been there

 

I have to believe that there is a different "set of rules" for the guys that live in Pattaya vs the holiday'ers. Let's face it, we are creatures of habit. I could see myself having a couple of favorite bars and in turn a couple of favorite ladies. And I like long time over short times. On holidays, I would often take a lady and have her stay with me for several days then cut her lose and butterfly for the last few days of a trip. No problem, I was getting on a plane in a few days. But when you live in Pattaya then everything has to change (I'm guessing) because there is no plane waiting for you. Take a lady for a few days and a certain number of them will have to take offence when you cut them loose.

 

I can't blame the ladies who want to chase the fools who fly into town for a few days and start dropping money like rain drops from heaven. I guess it's like some of us who want to spend our time looking for the ladies who are new to the scene and "unspoiled". But I'm also guessing that some ladies have little interest in expats because these guys know the score and don't put up with the silly games or over pay. While other girls might see the expats as their best chance to get out of the bars and the risk that come with going with different men who may or may not treat them well.

 

.

[jacko 8,813]

While other girls might see the expats as their best chance to get out of the bars and the risk that come with going with different men who may or may not treat them well.

Not sure about this. I think they pursue that aim from all angles. Getting a first time tourist to 'lub them mak mak' is likely thought to be easier than getting a cynical resident to take them seriously.

[torrenova 644]

I have had two long term live-ins, I still live with the second one. Both chose me from different walks of life. I don't butterfly which is mega unusual here (I know perhaps only a couple of other guys who do not).

 

I think you have to establish what you want. Do you want a constant stream of girls, some new ones, some brought in from a call or SMS ? or do you want someone to be a companion, to spend time with etc ?

 

I wouldn't go looking, trying to see whether today's girl could be "the girl". I would advise getting a girl who has a job, so perhaps some networking outside of the bars and go-gos is needed.

 

I would also think about the financial side of things before you even start. Do you rent ? Do you own ? Better she keeps her job to give you some time apart and she retains some financial independence.

 

Iknow a few guys who constantly change but I could not live like that.

[jacko 8,813]

Torrenova seems to have matched my lifestyle and ideas.

If you are a big butterfly, you don't need a live-in.

 

Mine doesn't work, but I give her a monthly stipend so that she has the financial independence. She currently goes to school, so we both get the 'time apart'... which I think I need more than her. She cooks dinner often and cleans up the house quite well.

 

She wanted to work but could only find menial, long hours for quite low pay. So, as I wanted her to spend some time with me and do the housework, we came to the school and stipend settlement.

[casper_uk 12]

I've been living here for nearly 8 months now and I honestly think that the girls treat you the same as anyone else.

 

Obviously, this will be different if you constantly visit the same bars, in which case you'll probably get a lot closer to the some of the girls and could actually form a friendship with a couple of them ..... ya never know.

 

In the main though, the girls do think for the moment and they'll still try to get drinks out of you and they'll still play bargames and hope for a barfine.

 

Many of the 'get rich quick' girls would actually prefer a guy who is 'out of town' anyway. Having to stop work and be at the 'beck and call' of the same guy everyday isn't appealing to everyone.

[Gary 4,118]

You can and usually do make friends with some of the bar girls when you live here. Fortunately they have no problem sleeping with their farang friends if they have not had any luck getting bar fined. Some of the bar owners had problems with this. I have been accused of screwing the bar because of not paying the bar fine. These girls would call me and ask me if it was OK if they came to sleep with me IF they had no luck finding a customer. They worked until the bar closed so I never felt that I screwed the bar. They were there and available during working hours. One of the girls quit the bar because she said that she was not the property of the bar owner. She said that the bar owner is not her mother and the bar certainly did NOT own her. That particular bar lost a good girl and a good customer because of that bullshit.

 

On the occasions that I wanted them early I DID pay the bar fine and paid the girl the same as if I were a regular customer. When they came over to my condo after the bar closed it became a different thing. Many times while in the bar I would recommend different girls who were my friends to guys I knew. The girls would normally sit with me while I was in the bar and I would buy them a few drinks, but when a potential customer came in they went to work. I have had guys ask me if it pissed me off that the girl left while they had a drink in front of them that I bought. I always told the guys that we were just friends and that her job was to make money.

[casper_uk 12]

Two really great points of view, both of which I also standby.

 

If any bar is going to 'whine' to me about losing a few hundred baht, because the girl wants a decent place to sleep and a little extra money, it really wouldn't go down to well.

 

All of the bars where I have 'friends' know me and also know that I have no problems with spending money, and as they see me regularly, they too would be doing a foolish thing in pushing the 'barfine'.

 

Fortunately, this has never been raised to me, though it was mentioned to a girl sometime back. She left them with no doubt that discussing it again would be a bad move on their part. Good girl.

 

I see it as just one more of the perks of living here, I have no problems with paying barfines (even the excessive ones from time to time) but 'after hours' some girls go to the Thai Guys and some prefer to spend time with good Farangs ........ same same.

[Shilo 371]

I had always thought that prostitution was illegal in Thailand, that the bars were there for the entertainment of the tourist and expats, that the bar owners where simple bar owners and not pimps, and that the whole purpose of a barfine was that the girls are on the bar's payroll to be "hostesses" and the barfine was to compensate the bar owners for when the girls choose to leave work early...

 

Over time, I learned that most of this is simply crap

 

It seems that many bar owners take the stance that the girls work for them 24/7, that the barfine is their personal kickback for "stocking" the bar with women, that it's expected that the girls will produce a certain number of barfines or suffer a cut in their monthly wages, and if the bar learns that you ahve spent ANY time with one of their ladies then a barfine is due.

 

On one of my last trips I got really pissed when the FLB charged me a barfine for a day with a lady when the bar was closed.... pissed that is till I asked around to some of my other bar owner buddies and learned that this is a common practice in many of the bars.

 

Personally, once I stop coming to LOS for "vacations" and start calling it my home, I will judge any bar by the level of customer service. I have no problem paying a barfine and giving the lady fair payment for services rendered. But I'll draw the line when I have to start paying a bar a fee in order to spend time with a friend when she is off the clock.

 

 

.

[nidnoyham 30]

What's the average time before you go bareback with a live in ? I think, it is the dodgiest area for STD's

[MM 6,562]

On one of my last trips I got really pissed when the FLB charged me a barfine for a day with a lady when the bar was closed.... pissed that is till I asked around to some of my other bar owner buddies and learned that this is a common practice in many of the bars.

 

On a holiday, the bars that I know of are still paying the salary to the girl. This is a standard apparently around Pattaya. At FLB, all salaries, cuts, bar fine policies are managed by Moulie and the cashier Nee, as they have been since before I bought the bar. I have no interest in tinkering with the system if it is standard throughout the town.

 

In addition, the bar fined girl, in order to let you avoid paying the bar fine on a holiday, would have to lie to the mamasan and forego her cut of the bar fine amount. It's unlikely she will do that, but if she does, you then have your bar-fine-free holiday. Perhaps you should explain to the girl that you don't want to pay bar where she works (and will continue to work after you leave) and that she shouldn't mention the fact that she spent the holiday with you. Of course, there is a chance she might just tell you to go have the holiday by yourself. She might think you're cheap, but of course, it's the principle, as we all know.

[Shilo 371]

I think the key term in your comment

On a holiday, the bars that I know of are still paying the salary to the girl.

... is the word "salary". The girls aren't paid by the hour or even the day, they are paid a monthly salary.

 

So I guess this is where the FLB and 3 out of 5 bars (not all by any means) gets the idea that they can charge a barfine on any day (holidays, workdays, days off) or any hour (be it normal business hours, or in the afternoon before the girls go to work, or at 4am when we might bump into her coming out of a disco) ect ect ect.....

 

For what it's worth, it was my lady friend who mentioned that there wouldn't be a barfine when the bar was closed. She was as surprised as I was.

 

Bottom line, it's your bar and you every right to make any rule you want to for your staff and the right to treat your customers any way you want to.... I respect that. I just don't agree.... as you say... on principle.

 

By the way. Would it be wrong to assume that this practice of charging falung clients barfines at odd hours or when the bar is closed as another example of LOS two tier pricing? Or are you also getting these barfines from the girls Thai male friends too?

[BigDUSA 71]

On a holiday, the bars that I know of are still paying the salary to the girl. This is a standard apparently around Pattaya. At FLB, all salaries, cuts, bar fine policies are managed by Moulie and the cashier Nee, as they have been since before I bought the bar. I have no interest in tinkering with the system if it is standard throughout the town.

 

In addition, the bar fined girl, in order to let you avoid paying the bar fine on a holiday, would have to lie to the mamasan and forego her cut of the bar fine amount. It's unlikely she will do that, but if she does, you then have your bar-fine-free holiday.

 

Do the BG have to account for her time on her day off? I don't think it's fair to go into a bar during her time at work and make arrangements for later without paying bar but if she calls me after work and wants to come over. As far as I'm concerned she's off the clock.

[MM 6,562]

I think the key term in your comment ... is the word "salary". The girls aren't paid by the hour or even the day, they are paid a monthly salary.

 

So I guess this is where the FLB and 3 out of 5 bars (not all by any means) gets the idea that they can charge a barfine on any day (holidays, workdays, days off) or any hour (be it normal business hours, or in the afternoon before the girls go to work, or at 4am when we might bump into her coming out of a disco) ect ect ect.....

 

By the way. Would it be wrong to assume that this practice of charging falung clients barfines at odd hours or when the bar is closed as another example of LOS two tier pricing? Or are you also getting these barfines from the girls Thai male friends too?

 

 

Do the BG have to account for her time on her day off? I don't think it's fair to go into a bar during her time at work and make arrangements for later without paying bar but if she calls me after work and wants to come over. As far as I'm concerned she's off the clock.

 

It's purely an honor system between the customer, the girl and the bar.

[124peter 0]

Hi Martin,

 

 

Could you please direct your answer to this part of Shilo's post "Or are you also getting these barfines from the girls Thai male friends too?" I'm just interested to see if the Thai male friends are treated the same?

 

Regards,

 

Peter

[MM 6,562]

Hi Martin,

Could you please direct your answer to this part of Shilo's post "Or are you also getting these barfines from the girls Thai male friends too?" I'm just interested to see if the Thai male friends are treated the same?

 

Regards,

 

Peter

 

Sorry, it's too silly a question to even respond to.

[jacko 8,813]

Sorry, it's too silly a question to even respond to.

Fair dodge... I would have said it was a rhetorical question. Pretty good one too. Edited June 17, 2007 by jacko

[Sa-teef 44]

On a holiday, the bars that I know of are still paying the salary to the girl. This is a standard apparently around Pattaya. At FLB, all salaries, cuts, bar fine policies are managed by Moulie and the cashier Nee, as they have been since before I bought the bar. I have no interest in tinkering with the system if it is standard throughout the town.

 

In addition, the bar fined girl, in order to let you avoid paying the bar fine on a holiday, would have to lie to the mamasan and forego her cut of the bar fine amount. It's unlikely she will do that, but if she does, you then have your bar-fine-free holiday. Perhaps you should explain to the girl that you don't want to pay bar where she works (and will continue to work after you leave) and that she shouldn't mention the fact that she spent the holiday with you. Of course, there is a chance she might just tell you to go have the holiday by yourself. She might think you're cheap, but of course, it's the principle, as we all know.

 

Interesting.

 

I had an experience of just the opposite nature over the most recent holiday in Pattaya.

 

I was sitting and drinking with the falang manager of an ago-go on the night of the 29th and he told me, his exact words: "pay one barfine, get two free" because at that moment in time they were still under the "assumption that the bars had to be closed for both the 30th and 31st of May. I understand the next day they discovered that they could be open on the 30th but the girls had already been told they had the night off so as I understand it they did not open for business.

 

I had already told my companion for the next three days that if I didn't have to pay the 600 baht barfine I would give it to her along with her tip. Don't think she understood or believed it until it was sitting on the counter under her purse on the 2nd and 3rd morning. I was assuming the bar would cut their salaries for the two days off, but I do not know that for certain. Either way, the lady made out and I had no problem paying it to her vs the ago-go. the last thing I would ever do with this falang manager is try to skip-out on a barfine since I have known him for a good number of years and consider him a friend.

 

The lady and I had been doing the tourist stuff during those 2nd and 3rd days so after dinner out we made early nights of them. And GOOD NIGHTS they were indeed!

 

Met up with the said manager briefly on the night of the 1st or 2nd at a party which he stopped by for a moment and he explained their error, said they were closed both nights and no mention was made of an expected barfine due.

 

Differnet courses..... " Or however the saying goes.

 

Pa was a great little tour guide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Sa-teef

Edited June 18, 2007 by Sa-teef

[Shilo 371]

Met up with the said manager briefly on the night of the 1st or 2nd at a party which he stopped by for a moment and he explained their error, said they were closed both nights and no mention was made of an expected barfine due.

 

No doubt an honest mistake on the manager's part, he mistook you for her Thai boyfriend. I'm sure that the "honor code" would have kicked in when he realized that you were a falung

 

.

Edited June 18, 2007 by Shilo

[VicVegas 70]

When you have a "live-in" in Pattaya and you want to butterfly, you have to differentiate between the places you go with your "live-in" and where you go to butterfly.

 

-First and most importantly, you can't take other girls back to the apartment you share with your live-in, even if she's out-of-town for several days. The other women who live in the building, the women who work in your building, the women who have shops in the neighborhood, the lady with the cart on the corner who your girl buys soup from, even the mototaxi guys in your neighborhood, they will ALL tell your girl if you take another girl to your apartment. Thais stick together, and they hate to see a neighborhood girl being taken advantage of by a falang.

 

-If you and your girl frequent a certain bar together, that bar and every bar on that street will be off limits for butterflying.

 

-Once you pick a safe place to butterfly you can't take your live-in near there. That's why Soi 6 is a good place to butterfly - most Thai women don't want to go there.

 

-There are always exceptions. Some girls don't care if you go ST. Some of your ST girls will be discreet if they see you out with your live-in. Still, it's best to be prepared.

 

-Of course you can be as careful as you want and still get spotted going ST by one of your live-in's friends. Beware those BG drums.

 

Even with these restrictions, it's still pretty easy to sneak out for a ST in Pattaya, because there are so many options. You could declare everything between Walking Street and Soi 5 off limits and STILL have Jomtien, Naklua,"the Dark Side", Soi 6, Soi 2, etc for your ST needs. The thing that sucks is when one of the bars you frequent with your live-in hires a hot new girl that you want to fuck (or even worse, you meet one of your girl's friends who's way hot).

 

Of course some guys don't give a shit and break all the above guidelines. I firmly believe these are the ones who end up in the crime section of the Pattaya News.

[Shilo 371]

Vic,

 

I gotta ask... what do you mean by

"the Dark Side"

. 20 plus trips to Pattaya and that's a new one for me.

 

But also, thanks for your post. It hits on one of my main concerns about moving to Pattaya. I'm a "flowers and chocolates" kind of guy. I prefer a movie, a late bite to eat, maybe a couple of beers while checking the EPL scores and then off to my room with my love of the night. Over hitting a half dozen go-go's with 20 different lap dances followed by a double barfine for the threesome of the night kind of guy.

 

As much as I want to keep telling myself that I love being single, don't want to be tied down to one lady and want the freedom to spread my butterfly wings and grab a taste from petal to petal to petal.... the ugly truth is that I could see myself with one lady inside of 6 months

 

Some how, some way, I'm going to have to develope a plan that will protect by single ways

 

 

.

[VicVegas 70]

,"the Dark Side",

 

The area East of Sukhimvit Rd. Adam took a bunch of us there last month. Some good bars and girls.

 

the ugly truth is that I could see myself with one lady inside of 6 months

 

Only took 3 months for me, and believe me I was NOT looking for a steady GF. I moved over Dec 1st 2005 and was sharing an apartment with her by March 5th. Now I'm building her a house in her village near Nakom Phanom and we'll try living there when it's finished.

 

I tried to remain a butterfly, but I just stumbled upon a "good one" right after I moved over. I know other guys who've been thru 3-4 live-ins during the span of a year. Then there are guys like Adam who are habitual butterflies. Then there's Andy, who has a live-in and NEVER butterflies. Different strokes.

[LocalYokul 214]

I was in a sleepy little town over the weekend watching BGs play connect four and wonder why they'd rather play that stupid game than chat up customers

 

another bar I won't back into soon unless I see good amount of the staff changed

 

sometimes they just have no motivation at all whether it be with a resident or a short time tourist

 

I had some want to be my live-in, but I don't want a BG in my life, just gets in the way of finding a non-P4P gal

 

not to mention they couldn't stand it, not going out EVERY night, etc.