Lance Armstrong

[CheshireTom 1,377]

I take it, your point is they can print "allegations" and at the end of the day all they are is "allegations" with no proof that he took these drugs. So what?

I bet you said the same thing when the allegations of drug abuse against, amongst others, Rafael Palmeiro were published.

 

Didn't he testify to your congress recently that he had never taken drugs; period?

 

As for a 10 day ban ............ it's nice to see they are "clamping down" on steroid abuse!

 

Tom

 

3,000 hits ......... so to speak!

[Panda 2]

I bet you said the same thing when the allegations of drug abuse against, amongst others, Rafael Palmeiro were published.

 

Didn't he testify to your congress recently that he had never taken drugs; period?

 

As for a 10 day ban ............ it's nice to see they are "clamping down" on steroid abuse!

 

Tom

 

3,000 hits ......... so to speak!

He had an itchy bum. And the pharmacist said this cream was completely safe and would cure the problem.

 

There could not possibly be drugs in sport anymore with the level of testing they have got now.

[Emil 0]

I bet you said the same thing when the allegations of drug abuse against, amongst others, Rafael Palmeiro were published.

 

Didn't he testify to your congress recently that he had never taken drugs; period?

Its a well know fact that Palmeriro has been using performance enhancing drugs for years. I saw him on TV ads a few years back promoting viagra.

[Hub 203]

Hub,

 

Without referring specifically to LA, I agree with you entirely re the testing procedures, however, a test for chemical 'A' will not necessarily detect chemical 'B'. I think that's what folk refer to as keeping one step ahead of the testers as the Balco cases highlighted.

Tom:

 

Good point via the testing; however, it is my understanding the tests also looks for general types of drugs, so it may be more difficult to come up with a new "Drug B".

 

Also, false positives seem rampant, as this guy may have gotten hit for sudafed:

 

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Cycling/2005/07/28/1151028-ap.html

 

I just don't understand the surety or even questions you and others place on LAs drug usage, in light of the lack of positive testing results and the Enormous amount of negative testing results. Wasn't he known as the "worlds most tested athlete"?

 

It just doesn't make sense - scads of data and test results documenting he didn't dope, none (or very very little) saying he did, yet you and others ignore this fact.

 

Do you place the same presumptions on the others that came near his marks (Indurain, Merxck, et al); if so, no one was as vocal on casting aspersions on them that I remember. Not knowing enough about cycling to be sure, but if any of his rivals were in the last 30 years there would be even more suspicion in my mind, as the testing would not have has even a chance to catch up with the doping.

 

Another point: LAs actions in current law suits (e.g., against your Sunday Times) are not consistent with the reactions of other dopers - if he had something to hide he would not bring it into a court setting so more facts could come out, he would slink off with his 7 TDF victories. That's why you didn't see McGuire and others suing Canseco - they didn't want any more scrutiny.

 

RE: Palmeiro - I really don't see any connection here. I don't think anyone arguing for LA on this thread would argue that PE drugs are a fact (regardless of the silly conclusion the idiot posted a few replies before me). It is just that LA has been tested more than anyone, with all negative results, so where is your argument? Relative to Numbnut's comment above, the current wider testing policy in MLB was just implemented in January so it shouldn't be compared to the testing LA historically received.

 

Palmeiro could have easily have been a French boxer of brazillian weightlifter that has denied using drugs or was caught, so why bring Palmeiro up? Could it be because he is an................................... nah, couldn't be. Or the fact that some just don't like "The Star-Spangled Banner" ringing out over the Champs-Elysees? Nahhhhh, impossible

 

Hub

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Hub,

 

I brought up Palmeiro for no other reason than he was the only guy in the UK news yesterday who had failed a drugs test after declaring that he had never used them. He probably wouldn't have made the news over here except for GWB coming out in support of him. If any Brit, Yank or Chinese athlete comes up short this weekend at the World Athletic Championships I will use them as an example. I have no worries about the stars and stripes flying over the Champs-Elysees ..... as I said earlier Greg Lemond was the top dog during my induction on Channel 4 to the Tour. Before that, like many, I just regarded it as a long bike race for Johnny Foreigner.

 

If you read my first post I said that I couldn't get my head round the fact that LA was continually beating those guys who had admitted, or got caught, using drugs. If he was on something then it kinda just makes it a level playing field and he would probably beat the others if everybody in the sport was clean. Unfortunately, they are not .......... not by any stretch of the imagination and therefore it makes his achievements over the last seven years even more special. So, in response to your question about previous multiple winners (certainly since the 80s), I would be inclined to imagine they were having more than cornflakes for breakfast. Or is someone going to suggest that it's actually the guys at the back of the peleton who are performing with a little assistance.

 

Tom

[The Mook 105]

Cheshire: You use guilt by association by 2 guys in different sports. Huh? Just because a baseball player lied a bicyclist must be guilty.

 

Other riders who were detected as users could not beat Armstrong so he must be using some not yet detected substance? But you previously wrote even if he was on the "juice" the field was level so he's great anyway. Then you state if he really didn't dope up it's a more special achievement. Clarify for me please. I don't see users as great champions. How could they be? Why do you seem to think that could be?

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Cheshire: You use guilt by association by 2 guys in different sports. Huh? Just because a baseball player lied a bicyclist must be guilty.

 

Those guys at SI/Time warner better have deep pockets. Or, maybe not.

 

 

SI's Anti-American article

 

 

 

[judd 2]

Too many people coming out saying he was into drugs for him to be clean

[Gonzo 419]

Those guys at SI/Time warner better have deep pockets. Or, maybe not.

 

 

SI's Anti-American article

 

 

My mate Evan Cadell was robbed of being the true champion by Lance Armstrong and so were a few other cyclists.

[BigDUSA 71]

There's an old saying in legal circles. You can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. It's a long way from an indictment to a conviction.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

There's an old saying in legal circles. You can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. It's a long way from an indictment to a conviction.

 

A "conviction" is pretty irrelevant - taking PEDs in France is not a crime in the US. It's not even a "crime" in France.

[midlifecrisis 4,030]

There's an old saying in legal circles. You can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. It's a long way from an indictment to a conviction.

Yes, just ask Barry Bonds about that.

[Gonzo 419]

A "conviction" is pretty irrelevant - taking PEDs in France is not a crime in the US. It's not even a "crime" in France.

You are not allowed to use PED when riding your bicycle in the Tour de France. Go and ask Landis.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

You are not allowed to use PED when riding your bicycle in the Tour de France.

 

... under the rules of the sport. It doesn't make it illegal. It's not being found to have used PEDs that'll send you to prison - ask Marion Jones.

[Gonzo 419]

... under the rules of the sport. It doesn't make it illegal. It's not being found to have used PEDs that'll send you to prison - ask Marion Jones.

Marion Jones was the biggest cheat of them all. Nevertheless, I would not mind to get into her pants.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Marion Jones was the biggest cheat of them all.

 

I would give that honour to Flo-Jo.

 

Nevertheless, I would not mind to get into her pants.

 

I have a fancy for Allyson Felix myself.

 

Anything worth drooling over at the tennis down your way at the moment?

[Gonzo 419]

I would give that honour to Flo-Jo.

 

 

 

I have a fancy for Allyson Felix myself.

 

Anything worth drooling over at the tennis down your way at the moment?

I would have a fling with Stosur anytime, but I don't think she would be interested in me. Having a relationship with one of the William sisters would be as dream come true.

[The Mook 105]

I've seen A.F. in person in L.A.

That is a very attractive woman.

VERY.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

I've seen A.F. in person in L.A.

That is a very attractive woman.

VERY.

 

I saw her in Qatar in 2006 at the now infamous Gatlin WR meet. I wanted to thank her as she was part of a bet that won me a few quid the previous year. There are few of her likes around these days - a brilliant athlete and a thoroughly nice person to go with it.

 

 

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Good programme by CBS - and extra segments on 60 Minutes OT.

 

CBS 60 minutes OT

 

And a good joke for those guys who still think it's all a French conspiracy ....

 

 

On his last trip to France, as part of their obsession with him he was arrested in his Paris Hotel room for being in possession of illegal substances banned in France

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Shampoo, Soap and Deodorant

Edited May 27, 2011 by CheshireTom

[CheshireTom 1,377]

It appears those French conspiracies just won't go away ...

 

From The Telegraph ...

 

 

"Lance Armstrong given a week to answer US Anti-Doping Agency charges against Tour de France winner

 

Lance Armstrong - and presumably his lawyers - have been given a week to answer the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) charges of doping in writing while the doping dgency have also confirmed that, should they then decide to proceed with a formal hearing, an 'independent' panel will be asked to sit in judgement."

 

 

The USADA case ...

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

This guy has written a very good book about cycling.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Kimmage

 

"Rough Ride"

In May 1990, Kimmage published Rough Ride, detailing his experiences as a domestique which included references to drug use, including that of his own.

Kimmage was vilified within cycling as having "spat in the soup" (a colloquial phrase denoting betrayal, from the French, cracher dans la soupe), and within Ireland for having slurred Kelly and Roche. Roche responded with anger and threat of litigation, though Kimmage had never named him or Kelly among those he had seen doping. The book won the William Hill Sports Book of the Year in its year of publication.

 

Relationship with Lance Armstrong

 

Paul Kimmage has a history of confrontations with seven times Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong. Kimmage has invoked the ire of Armstrong over claims that most of Armstrong's early US Postal cycling team were doped, claiming that riders like George Hincapie had taken performance enhancing drugs. Kimmage continues to accuse many cyclists, in particular Armstrong, of doping.

This confrontation received widespread coverage before the 2009 Tour of California, when Kimmage asked Armstrong a question regarding dopers. Upon learning the identity of Kimmage, who had earlier referred to Armstrong as the "cancer" of cycling, Armstrong responded aggressively to the question, with the heated exchange being uploaded to popular video sharing sites

[The Mook 105]

This is called a Witch Hunt.

 

or

 

Guilt by Hearsay.

 

A complete crock of shit.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

This is called a Witch Hunt.

 

 

 

On a positive note - at least it's not a French Witch Hunt.

[Baht 9]

I have never seen the point of cheating by taking drugs in sport. I always thought of sport as something that you put your best effort into and if you are successful then that is a major achievement for you personally. If you take drugs to achieve this then that just says you were not good enough to do it on your own. I think there have been many sports people who have taken drugs and many have not been caught.