Boeing Launches New 747-8 Family

[Samsonite 181]

Boeing Launches New 747-8 Family

-- Cargolux and Nippon Cargo to buy up to 34 aircraft

-- 787 technologies to increase passenger and freighter capabilities, improve fuel efficiency, reduce noise and emissions, provide unmatched operating economics.

 

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q4/nr_051114h.html

[echster 1]

No pax versions ordered but I have a feeling they may be coming, especially with the Dubai Airshow approaching.

 

Don't mark me as a gambling man, but I can see Cathay (really did the behind-the-scenes pushing for this plane), BA, United and Northwest (for after bankruptcy), Japan Airlines (for both pax and cargo), KLM, Air France, Singapore Airlines, and Qantas.

[Samsonite 181]

Oh, I agree. You may have already said this, but QANTAS is going to announce a big order, maybe 100 aircraft, the end of the first week in December and the rumors have it is going to Boeing, a mix of 777s, 787s, and 747-8s.

 

I think the announcement of the launch of the 747-8, dated the 14th, but not posted until late that night in the U.S., was timed with the Dubai Airshow in mind. Doesn't it start this weekend?

Edited November 16, 2005 by Samsonite

[CheshireTom 1,377]

He, he. It seems like it was only last week that all these Boeing fans were saying that the A380 would fail, that it was too big, couldn't be evacuated, check-in/baggage claim would take forever etc, etc. So what do they do? Enlarge the 747. Don't worry, the same applies equally to Airbus and the decision to launch the A350 v the 787. It just proves that most of the talk on some of the airline forums is bullshit and the remainder is wishful thinking.

 

Tom

 

p.s. Can't we just start the one thread called Boeing news?

[Samsonite 181]

I think it was about 5 1/2 years ago Boeing announced* they would build what was then called the 747-X. No one showed any interest in placing an order so the project was scrapped.

A year ago there was "talk" of shutting down production of both the 767 and the 747.

Know what sparked the orders that have since flowed in for both airplanes and the launch of the 747-8?

 

The rollout of A380.

 

Once the A380 was actually built and the airlines and cargo companies could see it "in the flesh," so to speak, they turned back to Boeing and said, in effect, "build us a new 747."

The next few years in the commercial aircraft business are going to be very interesting.

* 29 June 2000:

"The 747X family includes a 747X Stretch passenger airplane, capable of carrying more than 500 passengers, and a 747X Stretch Freighter. Also part of the family plan is a 747X airplane capable of flying more than 8,975 nautical miles (16,620 kilometers) - matching the range of the recently launched 777-200 longer range derivative. The 747X family - which also potentially includes Combis and high-capacity Domestic versions - would incorporate a new wing, and have a maximum takeoff weight of more than a million pounds. All derivatives include a modern 777-style interior, and an updated flight deck, similar to the 777s."

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2000/n...se_000629b.html

Edited November 16, 2005 by Samsonite

[Floyd 0]

Air NZ has ordered 2 787E's for 2007 delivery

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Samsonite,

 

I think the announcement of the launch of the 747-8, dated the 14th, but not posted until late that night in the U.S., was timed with the Dubai Airshow in mind. Doesn't it start this weekend?

 

Probably more to do with a spoiling tactic in response to the current, highly successful Asian tour of the A380.

 

Tom

[torrenova 644]

Air NZ has ordered 2 787E's for 2007 delivery

That makes it worthwhile then, someone ordering 2 !

 

China will probably swallow hundreds if not thousands of aircraft over the next decade or so.

[Emil 0]

Air NZ has ordered 2 787E's for 2007 delivery

That's odd, the first ones ordered awhile back aren't scheduled off the production line until 2008.

[Samsonite 181]

Since the 787 program was launched in April 2004, 25 customers have ordered 309 airplanes, and Emil is correct, the first delivery will be in 2008.

[Floyd 0]

Sorry may of made a mistake

[BigDUSA 71]

Looks like China will buy 70 737 airplanes. Good news for the boys in Seattle.

[Samsonite 181]

Big Air Show in Dubai starting Sunday. There should be some major orders announced during the show. Before the end of 2005 it looks like Boeing may take close to 1,000 or more firm orders for the year.

[cowboy 0]

United engineers participated in the design of the 787. Plann on a big multi- year order being announced right after United comes out of bankruptcy. Should be like 300 plans over 15 years. Originally delivery for 40+ in first 2 years.

 

If you think you can't wait for new bangkok airport to open. Think like an airline gates, gates, gates. currently bkk has like an average of 4 747's arriving every 15 minutes from 5 a.m. until 3 a.m the next morning.

[lv2play 0]

Boeing just sold 42 planes (777) to Emirates.

bloomberg

[Bigmike 0]

Qantas has already ordered a heap of the new double decker Airbus so why would they order the new Boeing ??.

Bigmike.

[Bigmike 0]

Air NZ has ordered 2 787E's for 2007 delivery

Gee whiz Floyd they ordered two, well thats more than the Kiwi Navy has ships.

Bigmike

[Samsonite 181]

Qantas has already ordered a heap of the new double decker Airbus so why would they order the new Boeing ??.

Bigmike.

Range. It would appear that the new 777-200LR can do the Sydney to London route non-stop.

QANTAS ordered 12 of the A380 and has an option for 10 more. Deliveries are at least 6 months behind schedule.

[Floyd 0]

Had a customer in my cab, he uses qantas exclusively but wont when the A380 starts service on his flight sectors.

He reckons no want wants to fly them, crew them or fly in them as a passenger. he claims its a untested bomb.

[BigDUSA 71]

Had a customer in my cab, he uses qantas exclusively but wont when the A380 starts service on his flight sectors.

He reckons no want wants to fly them, crew them or fly in them as a passenger. he claims its a untested bomb.

I can imagine the same sentiments were expressed 35 years ago when the 747 was introduced.

[Samsonite 181]

BigD is correct. Similar things were said about the 747 when it first entered commercial service in January 1970, with PanAm.

 

It will be at least another year, if not longer, before the A380 enters commerical service, so a lot can happen by then. I think the A380 was "rolled out" last February so the public could take a look at it. Its first flight was toward the end of April. It has been in the test flight stage since and will be until about this time next year. Seems rather a long test flight period, but, then, it is an entirely new airplane.

 

BTW, it only took 18 months to build the first 747. Flight Certification took 10 months.

Edited November 21, 2005 by Samsonite

[Bigmike 0]

Singapore Airlines are supposed to take their first delivery next year of the A380.

Bigmike.

[Samsonite 181]

Singapore Airlines are supposed to take their first delivery next year of the A380.

Bigmike.

November of next year, if then. If it is delivered in November it could be in service by December depending on how much work Singapore Air has to do to the plane to meet their specifications.

Each airline, usually, designs their own interiors, seating configurations, etc., etc. and then either does the work themselves or farms it out to a 3rd party. Perhaps, as this is a "Major New Product" introduction and it is going to be late as it is, Singapore Air and Airbus will work together to speed up the process.

Usually what the aircraft manufacturer delivers to the airline is a plane with the galleys (kitchens) and heads (toilets) installed where the airline said they wanted them, but little else.

So, you won't see a A380 in commercial service for at least another year.

 

If I had to guess I would say Airbus was running late, as it turns out they are, and only rolled out the plane and flew it when they did because of public pressure. It could have very well been a case of the marketing department selling more than the boys in engineering and the workers of the factory floor could deliver. It wouldn't be the first time that has happened. Been a "victim" of that "syndrome" myself.

So now they are flight testing it and fine turning it. It is during this phase that they see if the product can live up to it's billing, i.e., will it work as advertised.

Prior to building a plane, any plane, the company, any company, consults with the design engineers and then announces to the world they are going to build the greatest thing since masking tape and sliced bread. It will fly x amount of miles on x amount of fuel and be x percent cheaper to operate than their competitor's product. What were to happen IF now that the test flights have started, they find out it doesn't meaure up to their own hype? The hype they used to pre-sell Billions of Dollars of product.

What I'm saying is there is a lot at stake and many things could go wrong or could go right. It may very well be everything the marketing department said it would be and more.

Only time will time.

Edit in: About an hour after writing the above I picked up the "Wall Street Journal" for 22 November and read an article that says A380 has an "unusually powerful wake." As a result, the International Civil Aviation Organization's initial proposals would require 10 nautical miles (normally 5) minimum separations for all aircraft following a landing A380, and for aircraft flying the same route directly behind an A380 at cruising altitude a minimum spacing of 15 nautical miles (normally 5).

Edited November 23, 2005 by Samsonite

[echster 1]

He, he. It seems like it was only last week that all these Boeing fans were saying that the A380 would fail, that it was too big, couldn't be evacuated, check-in/baggage claim would take forever etc, etc. So what do they do? Enlarge the 747. Don't worry, the same applies equally to Airbus and the decision to launch the A350 v the 787. It just proves that most of the talk on some of the airline forums is bullshit and the remainder is wishful thinking.

 

Tom

 

p.s. Can't we just start the one thread called Boeing news?

Tom,

 

Do not confuse a larger B747 vs. an A380. They are not direct competitors as their classes (meaning number of pax seats) are completely different. An airline is not going to buy a B748 if they need the capacity of an A380. The opposite is likewise.

[echster 1]

I think it was about 5 1/2 years ago Boeing announced they would build what was then called the 747-X. No one showed any interest in placing an order so the project was scrapped.

A year ago there was "talk" of shutting down production of both the 767 and the 747.

Know what sparked the orders that have since flowed in for both airplanes and the launch of the 747-8?

 

The rollout of A380.

I respectfully disagree. The B767 line will be shutting down unless the USAF orders B767 tankers. That's not going to happen now.

 

Sure, the rollout of the A380 had some effect on the introduction of the B748, but not in the manner you think. As I've stated above, the aircraft are not direct competitors. A cargo company is not going to buy an A380 if it can only fill a B748. Likewise, that same company will not buy a B748 if it is filling an A380.

 

What has happened to the B748 is airlines have said the A380 does not fit our business model, ie. we cannot fill that amount of seats. The airlines - most of whom presently fly the B747 - then went to Boeing and said can you go back and review the B747-X program. They said sure and incorporated the lessons learned from the B787 program. If there wasn't a B787 program, it is unlikely Boeing would have had a B748.