Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[TheFiend 1,181]

Boeing have already had 32 cancellations for the Nightmareliner since the start of the year.....

 

Not a good start to the year for Boeing!

Edited February 26, 2009 by TheFiend

[Samsonite 181]

"Carson: 787 schedule reaffirmed, all aircraft equipment cleared for first flight

By Jon Ostrower on March 10, 2009 9:26 AM

 

Boeing reaffirmed its 787 schedule today, saying that the company has "cleared all equipment for first flight" as it prepares for its maiden flight in the 2nd quarter.

 

Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO Scott Carson called Airplane One "essentially factory complete."

 

Carson added that Airplane One, which has been delayed by fastener problems and design changes, is currently undergoing integrated hardware and software testing at the company's Everett, WA factory.

 

Carson cited several visible "mini-milestones" to look for in the weeks to come, including a trip to the paint shop and commencement of gauntlet tests to verify and validate systems integration, as well as flight line ground and ship power testing to ensure the aircraft's self-sufficiency.

 

Carson was speaking at a JP Morgan Conference and said that "job one" for his company is flying, certifying and delivering on the 787 and 747-8 programs for customers.

 

The first 787-8, ship seven, is scheduled to enter service in the 1st quarter of 2010 with Japan's All Nippon Airways."

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Worrying problem for the Boeing that replaces the 747 on many routes.

 

Engine failure blamed for BA Heathrow crash landing could be repeated, warn investigators

 

There is a 'high probability' of a repeat of the engine failure that forced a British Airways plane to crash land at Heathrow last year, American safety investigators have warned.

 

By David Millward, Transport Editor

Last Updated: 11:04AM GMT 13 Mar 2009

 

Experts have warned there's a "high probability" that a fault which caused a British Airways jet to crash-land at Heathrow could hit other Boeing 777s. .They have said that urgent changes must be made to a key component of around 250 Boeing 777s.

 

Mark V Rosenker the acting chairman of the Americans' National Safety Transportation voiced fears about a potential fault in the aircraft.

 

 

.Investigators into British Airways Heathrow crash landing urge probe into ice in fuelHis warning came after it emerged that another Boeing 777, also using Rolls Royce Trent 800 engines also suffered loss of power to an engine because of an ice blockage.

 

"With two of these rollback events occurring within a year, we believe that there is a high probability of something similar happening again," he said.

 

"We are encouraged to see that Rolls-Royce is already working on a redesign, and we are confident that with the Federal Aviation Administration and the European Aviation Safety Agency overseeing the process, this flight safety issue - even one as complex as this - will be successfully and expeditiously resolved."

 

The vulnerable part is the Fuel Oil Heat Exchanger, which is used to keep fuel cool and also ensure that the fuel itself keeps flowing to the engine.

 

Safety investigators on both sides of the Atlantic have found that ice which builds up during the flight can be dislodged and prevent the exchanger from performing properly.

 

In the case of the Heathrow flight, the plane lost thrust as it came into land a following a flight from Beijing. Miraculously only one of the 152 people on board sustained serious injuries.

 

The American plane, operated by Delta airlines suffered a similar loss of thrust on one of its engines as it flew over Montana.

 

However the pilot, following new operating procedures, descended 8,000 fleet using power from the other engine.

 

He was then able to restart the engine and complete the journey to Atlanta without further incident.

 

The Boeing 777 is one of the industry's long-haul workhorses. Had regulators believed there was a fatal risk to passengers, its operating licence would have been withdrawn.

 

.

[jacko 8,813]

This is associated with the RR Trent engines used on some of the 777s, no issue seen with GE engines.

 

http://www.pattayatalk.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=635619

Edited March 13, 2009 by jacko

[wacmedia 277]

This is associated with the RR Trent engines used on some of the 777s, no issue seen with GE engines.

 

http://www.pattayatalk.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=635619

 

Hi,

 

I just dont like twin engined planes on long haul.

[jacko 8,813]

Hi,

 

I just dont like twin engined planes on long haul.

I seem to recall restrictions on Atlantic crossings for 2 engines many years ago.......

[wacmedia 277]

I seem to recall restrictions on Atlantic crossings for 2 engines many years ago.......

 

Hi,

 

I'd prefer a 747 or A380 personally. Imagine even 1 engine having trouble over the Atlantic or Himalayas.

[eltib 54]

Hi,

 

I'd prefer a 747 or A380 personally. Imagine even 1 engine having trouble over the Atlantic or Himalayas.

 

Same here, especially flying over the Pacific. Which reminds me that EVA has pretty much relagted their 747 fleet now to cargo duty in place of the 777-300ER.

[spacebass 0]

You might want to read that again. The article is taking about bank loans to airlines that want to buy new aircraft.

 

 

Exactly (Yawn)

[Samsonite 181]

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

 

"Analysis: Potential challenges ahead for A380

By

Jon Ostrower

on March 18, 2009 4:32 PM,

 

 

Airbus has found itself on the receiving end of a hefty load of criticism from its largest A380 customer.

 

The latest chapter in the story of the A380 is one of the operational troubles encountered by Emirates. German publication Der Speigel reported Monday that the Dubai-based airline provided Airbus with a detailed presentation of its complaints with its 489-seat A380s warning of a possible "loss of confidence" in the aircraft.

 

In a 46-slide presentation, the aviation experts painstakingly listed what they viewed as the giant jet's serious growing pains. To illustrate their points, they included snapshots of singed power cables, partially torn-off sections of paneling and defective parts of thrust nozzles in the engines as evidence of what they described as a shoddy work ethic at Airbus and its suppliers.

 

Emirates, which has received four A380s, served as the launch customer for the Engine Alliance (Pratt & Whitney-General Electric) GP7200 engines when it launched service during the Summer of 2008 between Dubai and JFK.

 

Emirates' first route was the longest regular A380 flight to-date between Dubai and JFK at over 12 hours. Singapore Airlines, the first airline to operate the A380, took a more conservative approach to its entry into service. SIA's first A380 routes had the superjumbo flying seven hour flights between Singapore and Sydney. Of the three A380 cities currently served from Singapore by SIA, two are under eight hours away.

 

To provide a bit of historical context, it's important to remember that the A380 is the longest range first generation airliner to fly 12-14 hour stages within its first year of service. The 747, 777, A330 and A340 all evolved over time to fly these long routes.

 

Erkan Pinar, who serves as commercial director at a German MRO, suggests that the distinguishing factor for Emirates could be attributable to the sandy climate of its Dubai home base. By contrast Singapore and Sydney are much hospitable climates, even with the increased humidity.

 

Overall, Emirates has insisted its view on the superjumbo is unchanged and quell any concern about a change in its order:

 

"Technical issues are expected with new aircraft. Naturally we want these to be resolved as soon as possible."

 

Though the in-service issues encountered by Emirates are not felt exclusively by the Dubai-based carrier. Both Singapore Airlines and QANTAS - albeit to a lesser extent - have encountered these micro-level issues, yet they may be vastly outweighed by the macro-level challenges facing the worlds airlines.

 

Looking beyond operational reliability, the A380 faces a much deeper problem in the the economic downturn. For airlines, dropping premium travel (first and business), has helped to cripple revenue potential:

 

"ATA today released its latest premium traffic report showing customers traveling on first and business class tickets in January fell 16.7%, a significant decrease from December's 13.3% drop year-over-year."

 

A 2004 analysis of the A380 weighs the importance of premium passengers on the aircrafts viability:

 

While the "premium" (first and business class) component of the traffic is smaller than the economy portion, premium traffic in fact generates over half of the total (passenger) revenue potential.

 

The report assumes a two-class 555-seat (125-J, 430-Y) A380 with 70% load factor on a 4000 nm route with premium seats being sold for five times more than economy seats. A broad look at today's A380 fares reveal roughly similar pricing models, though slightly lower seat counts.

 

One industry expert with direct knowledge of Emirates' JFK operations tells FlightBlogger that January and February load factors took a significant hit with several A380 flights operating with less than 100 passengers on board. Emirates announced yesterday that it planned to downsize its daily JFK service to a 777-300ER and redeploy the twin A380s to Toronto and Bangkok later this year.

 

Air France has postponed delivery of two A380s to preserve operating cash for 2009 and 2010 by moving down payments farther out. Though Emirates, which accounts for more than 1/4 of the A380 backlog, has openly dismissed the idea of slowing deliveries as Dubai strains under the crush of the financial crisis.

 

2009 will see bring the total number of A380s operating globally to 31 and the aircraft will see its second full year of service. Its maturity as an aircraft will be forged amid a global economic downturn and Airbus tasked with overcoming the technical teething challenges that will define its operational life if not quickly resolved. The story of the A380 is far from over.

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

[wacmedia 277]

2009 will see bring the total number of A380s operating globally to 31 and the aircraft will see its second full year of service. Its maturity as an aircraft will be forged amid a global economic downturn

 

Hi,

 

The future of the whole airline industry is being forged in a meltdown in the economy. Who knows where it will all end ?

[TheFiend 1,181]

Scally.... when something new is developed there is a chance problems will be encountered. Just look at the problems Boeing has been having with the Nightmareliner program. Manufacturers and end users learn to how to tweak things, users learn how to maintain them properly, learn how to rectify problems as they happen. They learn how to predict when failures might happen..... MTBF/MTTF (Mean Time Before Failure and Mean Time To Failure) figures can be developed and operating schedules and maintainamce schedules adapted over time.

 

In the real world nobody expects 100% reliabilty......... but it is nice to achieve as close to it as possible.

 

Nobody has cancelled orders for the A380, but it is understandable about defering deliveries. As airlines cut frequencies on some routes the A380 offers them the option of offering the same capacity with fewer flights. For example why have a 2x daily A330 service when an single daily A380 service might be a more cost effective solution.

[Samsonite 181]

.... when something new is developed there is a chance problems will be encountered. Just look at the problems Boeing has been having with the Nightmareliner program. Manufacturers and end users learn to how to tweak things, users learn how to maintain them properly, learn how to rectify problems as they happen. They learn how to predict when failures might happen..... MTBF/MTTF (Mean Time Before Failure and Mean Time To Failure) figures can be developed and operating schedules and maintainamce schedules adapted over time....

There is a major difference here since there was what... a couple of years between the A380's maiden flight and when it was actually delivered? During that time one would have thought airbust would have found and worked out some of these problems. At least that is what was being claimed when it was first delivered to Singapore Air.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

There is a major difference here since there was what... a couple of years between the A380's maiden flight and when it was actually delivered? During that time one would have thought airbust would have found and worked out some of these problems. At least that is what was being claimed when it was first delivered to Singapore Air.

 

Scally,

 

I wouldn't worry about the A380.

 

Boeing 787 will be overweight, ILFC's Udvar-Hazy says

 

Boeing Co.'s first batch of 787 Dreamliners will be overweight and have other performance issues, trailing airlines' expectations, according to International Lease Finance Corp., the aircraft's biggest customer.

 

Boeing is putting "a lot of resources" into rectifying the problems and implementing production-line improvements as quickly as possible, Steven Udvar-Hazy, chief executive officer of the leasing company, said today at an aircraft financing conference in Scottsdale, Arizona.

 

"In the long run, this will be an excellent family of aircraft," Udvar-Hazy said. "I just pity those airlines that will get the first few, because those will not be the standard by which the 787 will be built on later," he told an audience of about 1,000 aircraft brokers, lessors and bankers at an International Society of Transport Aircraft Trading conference.

 

The Dreamliner is almost two years behind schedule, with first deliveries now due at the beginning of 2010, because of parts shortages and defects, redesign work and problems with suppliers. Shanghai Airlines Co. said last week it was in talks with Boeing about canceling or deferring some of its 787 orders because the jet's quality isn't as originally promised.

 

"All 787s will provide exceptional value to our customers," Boeing spokesman Marc Birtel said in an e-mail, acknowledging the first jets off the line "will weigh more than we would like."

 

Improvement

 

"As with all of our airplanes, we will continue to improve them over time," Birtel said.

 

All Nippon Airways Co., the 787's first customer, is now scheduled take delivery of its 50 Dreamliners starting from early next year.

 

Besides being overweight, the 787 also has problems with systems and structures, Udvar-Hazy said in an interview.

 

"A lot of those they'll solve during the certification process, but some of the improvements may not be incorporated until production commences," he said.

[TheFiend 1,181]

The future of the whole airline industry is being forged in a meltdown in the economy. Who knows where it will all end ?

 

We are now nearly a quarter of the way through 2009, and Boeings orders for the year are showing a net total of -10 because of cancellations. and up until the end of February Airbus was showing a net total of -8. But an order for 2 A380 is a sign there is still a market for the A380. The net figures are a good illustation of the global economic meltdown.

Edited March 19, 2009 by TheFiend

[Samsonite 181]

We are now nearly a quarter of the way through 2009, and Boeings orders for the year are showing a net total of -10 because of cancellations. and up until the end of February Airbus was showing a net total of -8. But an order for 2 A380 is a sign there is still a market for the A380. The net figures are a good illustation of the global economic meltdown.

Last year, 2008, Airbus had 123 cancellations. Boeing had 6.

 

Sixth and final flight test 787 begins final assembly

By Jon Ostrower

on March 19, 2009 2:36 PM

 

 

With the final flight test aircraft now in final assembly, the path is cleared for parts to begin arriving for pre-integration for the first production 787 (ANA). The first major parts for Dreamliner Seven are set to begin showing up in Everett later this week when the horizontal stabilizer is flown from Italy.

 

In addition, when the 787 line pulsed last week to make way for ZA006, the blue ground vibration testing rig was brought in to the factory. Ground vibration testing is a milestone that must be accomplished on Dreamliner Two before Dreamliner One can be cleared for first flight by the end of the second quarter. According to program sources, the testing is expected to begin early next week.

 

Final Boeing 787 Dreamliner for Flight Test Enters Final Assembly

EVERETT, Wash., March 19 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The sixth and final Boeing (NYSE: BA) 787 Dreamliner designated for flight test is now undergoing final assembly in Everett, Wash. The airplane, designated ZA006, will be powered with General Electric GEnx engines.

 

Progress continues on the fleet. The first flight test airplane, ZA001, is getting its paint touched up this week before finishing factory testing. Power was brought onto the second airplane, ZA002, in late February and build verification tests are progressing well. Production work continues on ZA003, ZA004 and ZA005. In all, assemblies for 31 Dreamliners are currently in production throughout the supply chain.

 

The 787 Dreamliner has orders for 878 airplanes from 57 customers.

 

Photo Credit Boeing (note the already painted doors on ZA006.)"

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Last year, 2008, Airbus had 123 cancellations. Boeing had 6.

 

The figure of -10 that was quoted was for their net order book, not their total cancellations.

[wacmedia 277]

Boeing 787 will be overweight, ILFC's Udvar-Hazy says

 

Boeing Co.'s first batch of 787 Dreamliners will be overweight and have other performance issues, trailing airlines' expectations, according to International Lease Finance Corp., the aircraft's biggest customer.

 

Shanghai Airlines Co. said last week it was in talks with Boeing about canceling or deferring some of its 787 orders because the jet's quality isn't as originally promised.

 

Besides being overweight, the 787 also has problems with systems and structures, Udvar-Hazy said in an interview.

 

Hi,

 

The question now must be, in these depression times will it ever fly ?

[BigDUSA 71]

Boeing Co. (BA) has reshuffled the customers for initial deliveries of its delayed 787 and set aside plans to send the first six aircraft into commercial use, according to a published report.

 

The move would see launch customer All Nippon Airways (9202.TO) take 11 of the first 30 aircraft, while Chinese carriers appear to have slipped from the first deliveries scheduled for next year, according to flightblogger.com published by U.K.-based Flight International.

 

Boeing declined comment on the report, which comes ahead of the first test flight scheduled for June. The 787 is more than two years behind schedule, with its launch delayed several times by supply and design problems.

 

Jim Proulx, a spokesman for Boeing's commercial airplanes unit, said the company doesn't comment on individual delivery schedules to customers. He acknowledged that "where possible, we are making adjustments that meet our customers' needs while allowing us to successfully manage our production plan."

 

Boeing said it hasn't made any changes to its delivery schedule, with the first 787 due to arrive at ANA in the first quarter of 2010.

 

According to flightblogger, Boeing is switching some aircraft to ANA that had been destined for Chinese airlines, who originally hoped to have the 787 in time for last year's Beijing Olympics. The Japanese carrier declined comment.

 

ANA is expected to use its first aircraft for domestic routes, while Chinese carriers are more concerned about the first aircraft being overweight. While this is a common problem with new aircraft types, it is a bigger issue for customers planning to use them on longer international routes.

 

Boeing also has reportedly re-assigned 787s ordered by Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) to Qantas Airways (QAN.AU) and Air India. Delta recently refuted speculation it had cancelled some of its orders.

 

Delta and Royal Air Maroc had been slated to take some of the first six test aircraft, but this plan has been revised, according to flightblogger.

 

The airlines couldn't immediately be reached for comment.

 

The weight issues have troubled some 787 customers, since it would put aircraft performance below levels claimed by Boeing.

 

The 787 is the first commercial aircraft made with lightweight composite materials, rather than aluminum, cutting overall weight and boosting efficiency.

 

Boeing has outsourced much of the production, a move that has plagued the program with delays and forced the company to increase investment and resources.

 

Along with rival Airbus, Boeing is facing a weakening market for new aircraft, as airlines around the world cope with economic recession and a credit crisis that makes financing difficult.

 

Still, Boeing has said for the new, fuel-saving plane remains strong, and some customers want to move up in the order book as others defer multimillion-dollar purchases, making for a "dynamic" schedule that is subject to change.

 

The 787, the most successful launch ever at Boeing, has received more than 800 firm orders. So far this year, there have been no new 787 orders, and 32 cancellations.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Overweight and stuck in the US .........

Edited April 7, 2009 by CheshireTom

[Samsonite 181]

"...Boeing declined comment on the report, which comes ahead of the first test flight scheduled for June. The 787 is more than two years behind schedule, with its launch delayed several times by supply and design problems...."

Simply not so. Sloppy reporting by some media hack that probably couldn't tell the different between a 737 and a 747. As of today the 787 is about 1 year behind the original schedule. If it is delivered in the 1st quarter of next year it will be less than 2 years behind the original schedule.

 

...the 787, the most successful launch ever at Boeing, has received more than 800 firm orders...

The 787 is the most successful launch of any airliner from any manufacturer, ever, and has 878 firm orders, net, from 57 customers.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Simply not so. Sloppy reporting by some media hack that probably couldn't tell the different between a 737 and a 747. As of today the 787 is about 1 year behind the original schedule. If it is delivered in the 1st quarter of next year it will be less than 2 years behind the original schedule.

 

If.

 

 

 

 

The 787 is the most successful launch of any airliner from any manufacturer, ever, and has 878 firm orders, net, from 57 customers.

 

Just a pity it hasn't actually managed to fly anywhere. A slight handicap for an aeroplane.

[jacko 8,813]

Simply not so. Sloppy reporting by some media hack that probably couldn't tell the different between a 737 and a 747. As of today the 787 is about 1 year behind the original schedule. If it is delivered in the 1st quarter of next year it will be less than 2 years behind the original schedule..

So the original schedule incorporated about a years delay between current point and delivery with an 'IF'?????????

[Samsonite 181]

So the original schedule incorporated about a years delay between current point and delivery with an 'IF'?????????

The original schedule called for delivery in May of last year. The current schedule calls for delivery in the 1st quarter of next year. The latest news, which inadvertently came from a Rolls-Royce spokesman, would indicate the first delivery will be in February.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Scalawag

[wacmedia 277]

The original schedule called for delivery in May of last year. The current schedule calls for delivery in the 1st quarter of next year. .

 

Hi,

 

What will the next schedule call for delivery when this one is scrapped ? The downturn may buy them time anyway.