Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[Samsonite 181]

...The #2 aircraft producer is having a hard time in the current economic climate. Same, same as the #1 producer.

Not anywhere close.

Boeing is in much better shape to survive than airbust.

The A400M could drag airbust down, along with the A380. A truly independent company couldn't keep both of those programs going and survive.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Not anywhere close.

Boeing is in much better shape to survive than airbust.

The A400M could drag airbust down, along with the A380. A truly independent company couldn't keep both of those programs going and survive.

 

There you go with your predictions again.

 

How long since ago since you were predicting the demise of EADS within the year. Two years? Three years ago?

[TheFiend 1,181]

Well, if they are not buying the 747-8i, why isn't there a mad rush to buy the A380? There just isn't the need, in the eyes of most airlines, for that big of an aircraft.

 

For many years the only aircraft with both size and range was the 747. Now that there are other planes available, e.g., the 767, 777, A330, A340, and soon the 787, there is no need, for many airlines, to buy anything larger.

 

IIRC, only two of the U.S. owned airlines even own 747s. United and Delta and Delta didn't own any until they acquired them as a result of the merger with Northwest.

 

Of the longer range Airbust models, only the A330 is selling well. The A340 is just about dead. Too bad, it was a nice looking airplane.

 

There is at least one airline that has announced they are going to start flying transatlantic with the Boeing 737-900ER and many have been doing it for years with the 757.

 

In other words, there is little need for an aircraft much bigger than a 777.

 

Perhaps in the American markets...... but you look at the market outside USA, and there is a market for the A380. And Korean have ordered 2 this year.....

 

Take Emirates for example......they use the 777, flying full.......but if they use a A380 they can sell more seats....much better option than increasing the number of flights per day.

 

Airbus will survive, just like Boeing will survive....

[Samsonite 181]

Perhaps in the American markets...... but you look at the market outside USA, and there is a market for the A380. And Korean have ordered 2 this year.....

 

Take Emirates for example......they use the 777, flying full.......but if they use a A380 they can sell more seats....much better option than increasing the number of flights per day.

 

Airbus will survive, just like Boeing will survive....

Emirates just took delivery of another 777, making it their 75th, and they have more on order. They also account for 1/4 of the entire A380 order book, with over 50 on order. It has yet to be seen if they will take all 50+ as there is some doubt that part of the world can produce enough customers to fill them. Emirates will have to cannibalize other markets to get enough customers to meet their goals and the carriers in those markets will not let that happen.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Scalawag

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Emirates just took delivery of another 777, making it their 75th, and they have more on order. They also account for 1/4 of the entire A380 order book, with over 50 on order. It has yet to be seen if they will take all 50+ as there is some doubt that part of the world can produce enough customers to fill them. Emirates will have to cannibalize other markets to get enough customers to meet their goals and the carriers in those markets will not let that happen.

 

They said the same about their 777 orders.

Edited May 14, 2009 by CheshireTom

[TheFiend 1,181]

Emirates just took delivery of another 777, making it their 75th, and they have more on order. They also account for 1/4 of the entire A380 order book, with over 50 on order. It has yet to be seen if they will take all 50+ as there is some doubt that part of the world can produce enough customers to fill them. Emirates will have to cannibalize other markets to get enough customers to meet their goals and the carriers in those markets will not let that happen.

 

Emirates operates a hub network...... they will place the A380 on routes where the demand is.... simple. Why would they have to cannibalize other markets?

 

I have a choice of 4 airports within 3 hours of where I live that are served by Emirates - Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow and Birmingham. They are my airline of choice..... Why should I have to travel all the way to London to catch a direct flight to Bangkok.

 

The A380 is a great plane for airlines that operate Hub networks, and it gives them higher capacity with lower operating costs. For example - Emirates wants to increase its' capacity at Manchester....... which is the better option? Increase from 2 flights per day to 3 (3 x 777), or put an A380 on one flight (1 A380 + 1 777)... the more cost efficient option is the A380 one.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Good to see that EADS are not neglecting other sides of the business.

 

More Eurofighter jets for RAF despite downturn

23 hours ago

 

LONDON (AFP) — Prime Minister Gordon Brown said a third group of Eurofighter jets will be purchased after coming under pressure to go ahead with the order despite the global slowdown.

 

Prime Minister Gordon Brown said the new planes would bolster the Royal Air Force and "create new jobs in advanced manufacturing that Britain needs to emerge stronger and fitter from this global downturn."

 

While not saying how many it will buy, the Ministry of Defence said it would sign a contract for the Typhoon jets after completing negotiations with the aircrafts' makers and partner nations Germany, Italy and Spain.

 

"We look forward to receiving an affordable bid from European industry that will allow us to proceed with a programme that will deliver advanced multi-role aircraft to the Royal Air Force," said Defence Secretary John Hutton,.

 

"Subject to the satisfactory outcome of these negotiations, I hope that we will be in a position to sign a contract later this year," he added, adding that London has still to decide on the number and cost of the planes.

 

Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain were meant to buy 620 Eurofighters -- made by Airbus's Franco-German parent company EADS, Britain's BAE Systems and Italy's Finmeccanica -- but a third tranche of 236 aircraft has been held up.

 

Last month the head of Airbus, Thomas Enders, called on Britain to stop stalling over its Eurofighter order amid speculation that the country's dire financial position is prompting a rethink.

 

The Eurofighter, seen as a replacement for the Tornado, has been dogged by delays and cost over-runs.

 

The global financial crisis has made other countries less keen on ordering billions of euros' (dollars') worth of military hardware, not least Germany, which is due to buy 68 aircraft in the third tranche.

 

Each jet is reported to cost 100 million euros (89.8 million pounds).

 

Copyright © 2009 AFP. All rights reserved. More »

 

Lift-off for European telescopes

 

By Jonathan Amos

Science reporter, BBC News

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8050157.stm

 

The Ariane 5 lifts off from the Kourou spaceport in French Guiana

 

Europe's Herschel and Planck telescopes have blasted into space on an Ariane 5 rocket from Kourou in French Guiana.

 

The satellites are being sent into orbit to gather fundamental new insights into the nature of the cosmos.

 

The Ariane thundered clear of the launch pad at 1312 GMT (1412 BST) - its flight lasting just under half an hour.

 

Mission controllers in Germany made contact with the telescopes over the Indian Ocean once they had separated from the rocket's upper-stage.

 

The acquisition of the signals, relayed through ground stations in Australia, will have been a moment of huge relief for everyone connected with the two observatory projects.

 

Their combined programme cost is 1.9bn euros (£1.7bn; $2.5bn), which made Herschel and Planck the highest value payload the European Space Agency's (Esa) science division had ever put on a single rocket.

 

"The launch today is just one step in a long chain of decisions and a fantastic amount of work by thousands of scientists and engineers," said agency director-general Jean-Jacques Dordain.

 

 

"All these scientists and engineers have worked together with just one objective, which is to discover the unknown and to make the technologies that are necessary to make this scientific progress."

 

The ascent through the Earth's atmosphere was just the first stage in what will be a long journey for the astronomical satellites.

 

They will spend the next two-to-three months making their way out to observation positions some 1.5 million km from Earth on its "night side".

 

The long cruise will allow engineers to check out sub-systems and commission the telescopes' instruments. One of the first things controllers have to do is to get a precise description of the telescopes' orbits.

 

The Ariane is an excellent rocket but the satellites will almost certainly need some correction to their flight paths to be sure of making the proper transition to deep space. To save fuel, the controllers would like to make these correction manoeuvres as early as possible, perhaps on Friday.

 

Birth of stars

 

Herschel is the largest telescope anyone has put in space.

[Samsonite 181]

"DATE:19/05/09

SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence news

Airbus production issues delay next Qantas A380 delivery

By Max Kingsley-Jones

 

Delivery of the next Airbus A380 to Australia's Qantas has been delayed by over a month due to continuing production problems at the manufacturer, claims the airline.

 

The aircraft, which will be the airline's fourth of the type, was due for delivery at the end of May, says Qantas.

 

"Airbus has advised us that, due to production issues, it will not be delivered until mid-July. It is now scheduled to enter service at the end of July," it adds.

 

Qantas recently deferred its seventh to 10th A380 deliveries by up 10-12 months due to the economic downturn, but is still taking three aircraft this year.

 

"After number four in July, we will take another two by the end of the year," it says.

 

Delay to delivery of the fourth A380 will mean "a short delay in offering additional A380 services and we have adjusted our schedules accordingly", adds the airline."

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/...0-delivery.html

[Samsonite 181]

DATE:19/05/09

SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence news

Boeing completes 747-8F forward fuselage assembly

By David Kaminski-Morrow

 

Boeing has completed assembly of the forward fuselage of the airframer's first 747-8 freighter.

 

The manufacturer has transported the 27.2m (89ft 2in) section from the final assembly jig ahead of sealing and systems installation.

 

More than 70% of the 5.6m increase in length against the 747-400F is in the forward fuselage section of the jet.

 

The manufacturer says this increase will enable the 747-8F to provide 16% greater cargo volume than its predecessor.

 

© Boeing

 

Boeing completed major assembly on the first set of wings for the freighter last month.

 

Seventy-eight 747-8Fs are on order from eight customers, including Nippon Cargo Airlines, Cargolux and Atlas Air."

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/...e-assembly.html

[TheFiend 1,181]

Yet another dinosaur!!!

[BigDUSA 71]

Yet another dinosaur!!!

 

I agree they should shut down the Eurofighter production line and buy American fighters.

[TheFiend 1,181]

I agree they should shut down the Eurofighter production line and buy American fighters.

 

And why buy American?

 

The UK bought some Mastiff armoured vehicles off America to use in Afghanistan....... when it comes to getting spare parts for them they have to wait for ages....... the UK is at the back of the queue for parts!!!! Over a 12 month period they needed to replace 176 axles.... result....... the Mastiff were parked up awaiting repairs most of the time....

 

If the UK buys European stuff there is a better chance that it will do what it's supposed to do instead of sitting waiting for parts.

[Samsonite 181]

...If the UK buys European stuff there is a better chance that it will do what it's supposed to do instead of sitting waiting for parts.

Same reason the U.S. should not buy an airbust tanker.

[wacmedia 277]

The UK bought some Mastiff armoured vehicles off America to use in Afghanistan....... when it comes to getting spare parts for them they have to wait for ages....... the UK is at the back of the queue for parts!!!! Over a 12 month period they needed to replace 176 axles.... result....... the Mastiff were parked up awaiting repairs most of the time....

 

Hi,

 

Americans take care of their own first. We should do the same.

[Samsonite 181]

Americans take care of their own first....

As it should be

Edited May 20, 2009 by Scalawag

[Samsonite 181]

"FLASH: ZA001 undergoes first Trent 1000 engine start

By Jon Ostrower on May 20, 2009 11:46 PM EDT

 

This page has received early word that ZA001 (First 787) has started its twin Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines for the first time.

 

Sources indicate that the aircraft's engines are currently running at the idle power setting.

 

FlightBlogger is waiting on official confirmation.

 

This is a developing story and will be updated."

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

Edited May 21, 2009 by Scalawag

[TheFiend 1,181]

The Boeing fanboys will be sitting there in front of their PCs wanking like crazy over this news, just like Scally is right now!

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

Only joking Scally!!!!!!!!

Edited May 21, 2009 by TheFiend

[wacmedia 277]

I agree they should shut down the Eurofighter production line and buy American fighters.

 

Hi,

 

The Eurofighter is a fine plane young man.

[BigDUSA 71]

NEW YORK -- Two years behind schedule and an albatross to its stock price, the Boeing 787 program has finally inspired some confidence on Wall Street.

 

Late Thursday, Chicago-based Boeing Co. said it completed the first engine runs on the new wide-body jet. The 787, made of lighter material than traditional planes to improve fuel efficiency, is flown on two Rolls Royce /quotes/comstock/23s!a:rr. (UK:RR. 328.25, -2.00, -0.61%) Trent 1000 engines.

 

"The 787 program is making clear near-term progress toward first flight," said Joseph Nadol, an analyst with J.P. Morgan. Management's optimism regarding near-term hurdles looks palpable, and the place could be in the air before June 15.

 

Earlier this week, Boeing /quotes/comstock/13*!ba/quotes/nls/ba (BA 43.23, -0.06, -0.14%) reaffirmed its commitment to launch the 787 before the end of June with first deliveries occurring in next year's first quarter.

 

pleased with the performance on the engines during this test," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program in a release. "We will now get ready for our intermediate and final gauntlet tests."

 

In recent weeks, the plane completed a "rigorous series" of tests, including those to its structure, systems integrations and landing-gear.

 

Production risks are still likely in the long term, but first flight should nonetheless be a "cathartic event" for Boeing shares and other aerospace stocks, Nadol said in a Friday note to investors.

 

Nadol rates Boeing stock at neutral with a $40 price target. On Thursday, Boeing shares closed at $43.29, down about 3%.

 

Boeing stock got clobbered in the past year as anxiety over the global recession and falling passenger traffic demand gripped aerospace investors. Shares plunged about 64% from last year's high to a six-year low of $29.05 on March 3. Since then shares have rallied more than 40%.

 

The 787 will be Boeing's flagship product, eventually replacing its wildly popular 747 jumbo jet that has generated more than 1,500 orders since 1970. Even before first flight, the 787 received nearly 900 orders from 57 customers.

 

With the recession and recent financial crisis have come cancellations. This year, customers canceled 49 orders for the 787 while Gulf Air added eight new orders.

[Samsonite 181]

The frigging news media rarely gets anything right. The B787 is not replacing the B747.

Say..... do you think..... no, couldn't be.... but it would fit..... do you think Wacky is a member of the fourth estate?

 

"The Road to 787 First Flight - May 22 - Revising the gauntlets

By Jon Ostrower on May 22, 2009 3:24 PM

 

Day one of engine testing saw the twin Trent 1000 engines run as high as 80%, with propulsion testing wrapping up around 10:30 PM PT yesterday evening, according to program sources.

 

In addition, the aircraft underwent further testing of the flight control hydraulics and very-high frequency and high frequency radio checks. Higher power setting runs are on the docket for testing today.

 

As the program looks ahead to the coming days, Boeing has restructured the road to 787 first flight with significant changes in the intermediate and final gauntlet tests.

 

Scott Fancher, general manager and vice president of the 787 program, said yesterday at Boeing's annual investor conference:

"In about two weeks, we'll run into what we refer to as the intermediate gauntlet test, similar to the factory gauntlet tests, but much, much more robust. Here we will operate the aircraft on engines seven days, 24/7 with aircrew on the flight deck simulating ground and flight environments, not just nominal flight profiles but a wide range of off-nominals as well, demonstrating the full robustness and gaining confidence in the robustness of the aircraft. From there, we'll go into preflight checks, taxi tests, then into first flight."

Fancher added:

"I also want to talk about the seven day intermediate gauntlet test, but to give you a sense for the maturity accelerating on the program originally that seven day gauntlet test was scheduled for not long before first flight. We've actually pulled that to the left, because quite frankly the systems are mature and ready to take it earlier from where we originally planned."

Boeing originally planned an eight-day final gauntlet ahead of preflight checks, but now says:

"Some of the final gauntlet testing has been moved into intermediate gauntlet tests to help retire risk earlier by getting through those test sequences."

The company declined to specify the revised duration of the final gauntlet, saying only that "it will be much shorter."

***********

By "pulled to the left" he means they are doing things sooner than planned under the current schedule. This is very good news.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Scalawag

[CheshireTom 1,377]

By "pulled to the left" he means they are doing things sooner than planned under the current schedule. This is very good news.

 

Except, crucially for an aeroplane, actually getting it up in the air. This isn't very good news.

 

 

Fresh delay for Boeing Dreamliner

 

Boeing has announced that it will delay the maiden flight of its new Dreamliner 787 aircraft, the latest postponement to befall the project.

The flight had been due to take place on 30 June, but the US company said it had now been delayed due to a need to reinforce a side section of the plane.

Only last week, Boeing told the BBC that the Dreamliner would have its first flight "in a couple of weeks".

Boeing said in April it would have to postpone its first deliveries.

Boeing is due to give more details about the latest postponement at a news conference later.

Before the latest announcement, the long-range, medium-sized Dreamliner was already 15 months behind schedule.

[joekicker 53]

This is becoming the Duke Nukem Forever of airplanes. And here's the horrible kicker: Duke Nukem's developer 3D Realms has very recently shut down.

 

Of course Boeing is in a GREAT position to survive.

 

Right?

[TheFiend 1,181]

Except, crucially for an aeroplane, actually getting it up in the air. This isn't very good news.

 

 

Fresh delay for Boeing Dreamliner

 

Boeing has announced that it will delay the maiden flight of its new Dreamliner 787 aircraft, the latest postponement to befall the project.

The flight had been due to take place on 30 June, but the US company said it had now been delayed due to a need to reinforce a side section of the plane.

Only last week, Boeing told the BBC that the Dreamliner would have its first flight "in a couple of weeks".

Boeing said in April it would have to postpone its first deliveries.

Boeing is due to give more details about the latest postponement at a news conference later.

Before the latest announcement, the long-range, medium-sized Dreamliner was already 15 months behind schedule.

 

Oh dear....... the Boeing fanboys will be crying today!!!

[eltib 54]

Except, crucially for an aeroplane, actually getting it up in the air. This isn't very good news.

 

 

Fresh delay for Boeing Dreamliner

 

Boeing has announced that it will delay the maiden flight of its new Dreamliner 787 aircraft, the latest postponement to befall the project.

The flight had been due to take place on 30 June, but the US company said it had now been delayed due to a need to reinforce a side section of the plane.

Only last week, Boeing told the BBC that the Dreamliner would have its first flight "in a couple of weeks".

Boeing said in April it would have to postpone its first deliveries.

Boeing is due to give more details about the latest postponement at a news conference later.

Before the latest announcement, the long-range, medium-sized Dreamliner was already 15 months behind schedule.

 

And I thought I'd be the one posting this. More bad news for the "Tarmac Queen" and BigDs stock portfolio. Guess I'm gonna have to vote against the bored[sic] of directors again next year, with the piddley 9 shares of stock they gave me. They were worth about $70 a share last year when I received them.

Edited June 23, 2009 by eltib

[TheFiend 1,181]

EVERETT, Wash., June 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) today

announced that first flight of the 787 Dreamliner will be postponed due to

a need to reinforce an area within the side-of-body section of the

aircraft.

 

The need was identified during the recent regularly scheduled tests on the

full-scale static test airplane. Preliminary analysis indicated that

flight test could proceed this month as planned. However, after further

testing and consideration of possible modified flight test plans, the

decision was made late last week that first flight should instead be

postponed until productive flight testing could occur.

 

First flight and first delivery will be rescheduled following the final

determination of the required modification and testing plan. It will be

several weeks before the new schedule is available. The 787 team will

continue with other aspects of testing on Airplane #1, including final

gauntlet testing and low-speed taxiing. Work will also continue on the

other five flight test aircraft and the subsequent aircraft in the

production system.

 

Scott Carson, president and CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes said a team

of experts has already identified several potential solutions.

 

"Consideration was given to a temporary solution that would allow us to

fly as scheduled, but we ultimately concluded that the right thing was to

develop, design, test and incorporate a permanent modification to the

localized area requiring reinforcement. Structural modifications like

these are not uncommon in the development of new airplanes, and this is

not an issue related to our choice of materials or the assembly and

installation work of our team," Carson said.

 

Boeing's financial guidance will be updated to reflect any impact of these

changes when the company issues its second quarter 2009 earnings report in

July.

 

Oh dear, looks like preperations for first flight were a little premature.

 

The Nightmareliner is turning into a PR disaster for Boeing.

 

Structural modifications like these are not uncommon in the development of new airplanes, and this is

not an issue related to our choice of materials or the assembly and installation work of our team," Carson said.

 

Of course not.... it's a design issue..... Of course he wouldn't admit they cocked up.... he never does.

 

This of will have a knock on effect to the certification program - all test planes will need modifed, and first delivery will also be affected. Boeing will deny this will happen as it would probably lead to further cancellations.

 

19/06/09

SOURCE:Flight International

 

Qatar Airways has begun the final countdown to the termination of its Boeing 787 order after losing patience over negotiations about delivery delays.

 

Chief executive Akbar Al Baker blasted Boeing during the Paris air show for taking too long to resolve unspecific "issues", warning that it would "walk away" from its 60-strong 787 contract if they are not quickly resolved. "We have some serious issues with Boeing and if they do not play ball with us they will be in for a very, very serious surprise," says Al Baker.

 

The airline's 30 firm 787-8 orders (plus 30 options) were originally due for delivery from mid-2010. However, the production crisis has pushed back all customers' deliveries by at least two years, which would indicate that Qatar's first aircraft is not now due to arrive until the around 2013 timeframe.

 

While he is unspecific about the nature of the issues, Al Baker says that Boeing is not dealing with them "in a professional manner, and Qatar Airways is very impatient with them". He adds that the airline has the right to "walk away" from the deal if "the delay is unreasonable".

 

The Doha-based airline's high growth rate gives it an urgent need to add more widebody capacity. As such it is understood to be looking for earlier delivery slots vacated by airlines like Northwest/Delta and other carriers which would enable its 787 to begin arriving in 2011. Sources say that if the issue is not resolved quickly a contract cancellation move is "very imminent".

 

In response to Al Baker's public tirade, Boeing says only that it is "working closely with each of our customers".

 

More cancellations looming?

 

The interesting quote is "Boeing not behaving in a professional manner" - Considering the body strengthening issue was discovered in April and they have waited until after the Paris Airshow, and also a week before the "first flight" to go public about it, then I think Qatar are correct in their statement.

Edited June 23, 2009 by TheFiend