Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[Samsonite 181]

The 737 is a 45 year old design and the NG was a reaction to the A320. It is time for Boeing to start with a clean sheet.

 

It would appear so, on the outside, but Boeing completely redesigned the 737 from the inside out in the '90s. The first 737NG wasn't delivered until 1997. If you put a new one next to one of the originals, you would see many differences in even the outside appearance.

 

BTW, the 320/330/340 are all based on the 300. Airbus was going to do the 350whateveritiscalledthisweek the same way until their customer base demanded a new clean sheet design.

It looks like some of Boeings customers are saying the same thing about the 737, i.e., as you have said, it is time for a new airplane.

Edited June 24, 2011 by Samsonite

[BigDUSA 71]

Qatar CEO lashes out at Airbus, flicks at Boeing too

 

 

Posted by Dominic Gates, Seattle Times

 

 

 

At the last Paris Air Show in 2009, Qatar Airways chief executive Akbar Al-Baker was upset with Boeing.

This year, after Airbus announced a two-year delay at the weekend for its large A350-1000 jet, he has "big issues with Airbus."

"Unfortunately, it seems they are still learning how to build airplanes," Al-Baker said in an interview Wednesday at the Air Show (my photo, right).

He also characterized an explanation of the Airbus move put forward by the European plane-maker's sales chief John Leahy as "garbage."

But despite his expression of intense dissatisfaction, Al-Baker is hardly abandoning Airbus.

He will announce some more Airbus jet orders within the next two days.

And he said he will buy more A380 superjumbo jets, of which he already has five on order.

He said the Airbus slip is very good news for Boeing's rival 777 jet, of which he now may order more.

But in the interview, he didn't let Boeing entirely off the hook.

 

 

Qatar is the launch customer for the A350-1000, the largest of three versions of a new carbon-fiber composite airplane family, the one that will compete with Boeing's large twin-jet 777-300ER.

On Saturday, Airbus pushed out first delivery to 2017 so it can enhance the design with higher thrust engines and changes to the wing.

"I am disappointed in the delay, I am disappointed they will not have commonality among the three variants," Al-Baker said. "I want compensation. And the less information they give us, the bigger compensation they will have to give us."

In addition, Al-Baker is not convinced that Airbus has got the planned revamp of the A350-1000 right and that it will outperform the Boeing jet.

"It doesn't satisfy me, not at all," he said. "We need the plane to be better than the 777-300ER."

Several airlines that have the plane on order, including another Gulf carrier Emirates, had been pushing Airbus to make the plane even larger and fly much further.

In an interview Tuesday at the Air Show, Airbus sales chief John Leahy said that he chose not to give the revamped A350-1000 enough extra power to be ultra-long-range.

"Whether I like it or not, I have to admit the 777-300ER has found a sweet spot in the market," Leahy said. "I want to sit right on top of that."

Leahy's strategy then is to roughly match the 777-300ER's range and capacity, but to do that with 25 percent better fuel efficiency due to the new engines and composite airframe.

But Al-Baker vehemently rejected Leahy's rationale and his performance promises.

"That's garbage. That's just salesmanship," he said. "They said that about their other airplanes and it doesn't meet (expectations)."

 

Boeing gains as Airbus slips

 

One thing is clear about the Airbus delay, he said: it's a boost for Boeing.

"It is good news for the 777," said Al-Baker, who on Tuesday at the Air Show revealed an order valued at just shy of $1 billion after standard discounts for another six 777-300ERs to add to the 15 already in his fleet and the 15 more pending delivery.

"People who have ordered or want to order the A350-1000 will have to look at a different avenue," he added. "We were hoping the A350 family would be replacements for the 777. But ... I don't think that will happen in the near future. It is possible we would order more 777s to fill the gap."

"In the long-range twin market," Al-Baker said, "Boeing has the edge over Airbus."

Frank talk

Al-Baker is a famously outspoken airline chief executive, prone to send strong public messages via the press.

At the last Paris Air Show in 2009, he was unhappy with Boeing over negotiations to get compensation for the delays in the 787 program. He complained publicly that Boeing was "run by bean-counters and lawyers."

Last month in Singapore, he caused an unprecedented public row at the annual meeting of the International Air Transport Association (IATA).

He questioned IATA's financial transparency and complained of the selection process that led to an IATA board appointment for rival Gulf carrier CEO James Hogan of Etihad Airways.

As Boeing knows from its experience with the 787 Dreamliner -- and specifically with Al-Baker -- airline chiefs do sometimes go public with complaints of delays, demand compensation, and threaten to switch to the other manufacturer.

In the end, after Al-Baker threatened to cancel his order for 30 Dreamliners in 2009, whether through compensation or otherwise, Boeing kept him on board.

"Boeing resolved the issues," he said on Tuesday. "The matter is solved."

And Al-Baker said that not only will he have another order announcement for Airbus at the Air Show, but he intends to buy more of the Airbus giant flagship A380.

He said he needs the superjumbo because it's the only available jet big enough for dense routes into airports where he has limited landing slots.

 

Boeing doesn't get a pass

 

And having let off steam against Airbus, Al-Baker didn't leave Boeing unchallenged at this Air Show.

The big debate in Paris this year is over the future narrowbody jet strategy, with Airbus choosing to put new engines on its A320s and Boeing still wavering between re-engining and building an all-new small airplane.

Al-Akbar was scathing about Boeing's lack of clarity.

"Boeing has done a very big mistake by not coming up with a strong statement of what they are going to do with the narrowbodies," he said.

If he were chief executive of Boeing, he said, he would go for the all-new jet immediately.

"These things need leadership, decision making that is very bold," Al-Baker said. "They are pussy-footing about it."

QUOTE

[BigDUSA 71]

CHICAGO – Boeing Co. says its new 787 is beginning the final phase of flight testing and repeated that it should be ready for delivery in August or September.

 

The final flight testing includes simulations of abnormal operations. It also tests long-range flying, including the 787's ability to divert to a far-away airport on just one engine.

 

Federal authorities have special rules for two-engine planes that fly more than an hour away from a suitable landing field. Generally, such flights are over water. The idea is to make sure the plane can make it to an airport if one engine shuts down.

 

The testing will be done on a 787 with Rolls Royce engines. Separate tests will be done later on 787s with General Electric engines.

QUOTE

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Still hoping ?

 

 

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner is expected to make its first flight in August of 2007 with delivery starting in 2008. As of now, Boeing has orders for 458 planes from 37 customers.

 

 

 

CHICAGO – Boeing Co. says its new 787 is beginning the final phase of flight testing and repeated that it should be ready for delivery in August or September.(2011 ???)

 

[TheFiend 1,181]

Looks like Airbus didn't have enough time at Paris to announce all their orders!!!

 

SIA inks deal for 15 more Airbus A330-300s

By Siva Govindasamy

 

Singapore Airlines has reached an agreement with Airbus to lease another 15 A330-300s for its fleet.

 

These aircraft will both replace older Boeing 777s in the Star Alliance carrier's fleet and grow its capacity in the coming years. They will be delivered from the Airbus production line between 2013 and 2015, said SIA.

 

The A330s, which will be powered by Rolls-Royce Trent 700 engines, will be leased for a minimum of six years, with an option for an extension. They will be operated on regional and medium-range routes to Asia, Australia and the Middle East, said the carrier.

 

SIA's fleet already has another 19 A330-300s that it initially got on five year leases, and these could remain in service for even longer. "There is an option to extend that lease, and there is flexibility on the length of the lease extension," said a spokesman.

 

The carrier also has 20 Boeing 787-9s and 20 Airbus A350-900s on firm order, according to information in Flightglobal's ACAS database. The 787s were initially due for delivery in 2011, but multiple delays in the programme means that this has now been pushed to 2013 at the earliest.

 

"We remain in discussions with Boeing on the delivery date for the 787s. The first delivery of the A350s is scheduled for the 2013/14 financial year," said SIA's spokesman.

 

SIA CEO Goh Choon Phong added: "Together with the additional [Airbus] A380s that we are taking delivery of this year, as well as A350s and 787s on order for the years ahead, the lease of the A330s is consistent with our longstanding policy of operating a young and modern fleet."

 

The spokesman said that SIA has not decided on the aircraft for its new long-haul low-cost subsidiary, which is due to begin operations within the next year. The airline has said that it would initially provide aircraft to the subsidiary, but the spokesman reiterated that these A330s are for the full service carrier's operations.

 

Receiving more A330s, however, would allow SIA to transfer some 777-200s in its fleet to the new subsidiary. These 777s could be upgraded to have an extended range and their cabin can be retrofitted for the low-cost operations, said industry sources

 

Also announced this week was deals for 88 A320s for China as well.....

[TheFiend 1,181]

SYDNEY – Australia's flagship carrier Qantas said Wednesday it has reached a 95 million Australian dollars ($100 million) settlement with Rolls Royce over last year's mid-air disintegration of a superjumbo engine, which temporarily forced the grounding of its entire fleet of A380s.

 

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce said the terms of the agreement are confidential, but said the settlement's profit and loss impact would amount to a 95 million Australian dollars ($100 million) boost for the Australian carrier.

 

In November, a Rolls Royce engine on a Qantas A380 disintegrated shortly after takeoff from Singapore, forcing the plane to make an emergency landing.

 

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau's interim report on the A380 incident said a manufacturing defect in an oil pipe deep within one of the engines led to an oil leak, which sparked a fire. The fire caused a disintegration of one of the engine's giant turbine discs, sending pieces of it shooting through the plane's wing.

QUOTE

 

Some news, especially for BigD...

 

Repairs have been authorised for VH-OQA and she is expected to fly again January 2012. The repairs will be done in Singapore.

 

Rolls Royce implemented software changes in the engine management software so hopefully another incident like this will not happan again.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Looks like Airbus didn't have enough time at Paris to announce all their orders!!!

 

Also announced this week was deals for 88 A320s for China as well.....

 

And another post Paris announcement...

 

Garuda orders four new A330-300s

 

Garuda Indonesia has placed a firm order for four Airbus A330-300s, which will take the carrier's A330 fleet to 23 aircraft.

 

It will also convert three A330-200s, dating from a July 2010 order for six aircraft, to -300 variants, said Airbus.

 

No engine choice was specified, but Garuda's existing A330s are powered by Rolls-Royce Trent 700s.

 

The airline will use the new -300s on Middle Eastern routes from its hubs in Denpasar and Jakarta.

 

Garuda also has seven A330-200s and six A330-300s on lease.

 

Garuda posted a net loss of Rp183.6 billion ($21.5 million) for its fiscal first quarter ended 31 March, down from a net profit of Rp18 billion a year earlier. The loss was caused by higher fuel costs and operating expenses.

 

As of 31 March, Garuda operated 85 aircraft, up from 73 a year earlier. It aims to retire seven Boeing 737 Classic aircraft this year

Edited July 1, 2011 by TheFiend

[BigDUSA 71]

Some news, especially for BigD...

 

Repairs have been authorised for VH-OQA and she is expected to fly again January 2012. The repairs will be done in Singapore.

 

Rolls Royce implemented software changes in the engine management software so hopefully another incident like this will not happan again.

 

One can hope this will not happen again. I doubt software changes can overcome shoddy workmanship.

[TheFiend 1,181]

One can hope this will not happen again. I doubt software changes can overcome shoddy workmanship.

 

The engine management software (FADEC - full authority digital engine control) has been modified so that an engine shutdown will occur if it detects a similar condition to what happened prior to the Qantas engine failure....

 

This modification has been implemented after only one catastrophic failure of Trent 900 in service....... shame Toyota and Pontiac couldn't react as quick when faults were discovered on their cars....

[BigDUSA 71]

FORTUNE -- The Paris Airshow last month was a clear win for Airbus, but don't count Boeing out just yet. The record number of orders for the Airbus A320neo aircraft at Le Bourget shows the European aircraft maker's success in bringing its current airline customers back on board. But while it was an impressive showing, Airbus failed to make any meaningful inroads into Boeing's core customer base, leaving in place a deadlock between the two aircraft makers in the heavily competitive and extremely profitable single-aisle jet market.

 

For now, it looks like Boeing's customers are waiting it out to see what the aircraft maker will do with its aging single-aisle workhorse, the Boeing 737. But Boeing shouldn't make them wait too long. Airbus, along with a new crop of foreign competitors, namely the Chinese, is aggressively pitching Boeing's anchor customers. Boeing may need to act fast or it could find that even its most loyal airline clients, like American Airlines and Europe's Ryanair, sign big multi-billion dollar contracts with a competitor.

 

The single-aisle jet market hardly grabs the headlines, but it is the most important profit center for jet makers. So while Airbus' superjumbo A380 and Boeing's futuristic 787 are important, the truth is, they aren't the big money makers. Boeing's 737 aircraft accounts for around 40% of the jet maker's commercial aviation revenue and well over half of its profits. Meanwhile Airbus still hasn't made a profit from selling its new superjumbo A380.

 

What keeps these aircraft industry going are the small jets that whisk people several times a day from New York to Houston or from London to Madrid -- not the big transatlantic jets. The cash flow generated by those projects allow the jet makers to splurge on research and development and roll out sexy new products. That's not to say that bigger jets aren't important to the bottom line, they just aren't the backbone of the industry.

 

For the last few years all the attention at the Paris Airshow has focused on the sexy new projects. This year, though, it was all about the workhorse. Airbus offered up for sale its latest version of the A320, the A320neo, which stands for "new engine option." As the name suggests, the jet really isn't a major redesign, it simply has a new engine. Airbus is selling the new plane as an "efficiency improvement package," over older models with improvements including a 15% reduction in fuel consumption allowing it to go farther and hold more cargo. Airbus clearly didn't reinvent the wheel here.

 

But Airbus customers went gaga over the new jet, which won't even be ready to enter service until the fall of 2015. There was a whopping 667 orders for the new jet at the show, worth around $60.9 billion at market-list prices. Airbus now has 1,029 orders for the new jet, making it the most popular model in civil aviation history.

 

The sheer number of orders at the show shocked analysts, who were expecting around half that. Leading the way were several Asian airlines, like Malaysia-based AirAsia with 200 orders. Garuda, the Indonesia flag carrier, also got in on the action ordering 15 jets.

 

Most of the other orders came from long-standing Airbus champions, like JetBlue (JBLU), which ordered 40 of the new jets. Analysts and insiders believe that the only real hit to Boeing was Garuda's 15 plane order, as the flag carrier had been staunchly Boeing for decades.

 

A 737 tune-up?

 

The potential loss of Garuda as a core customer doesn't seem to be worrying Boeing's management in Chicago. Nor does the fact they received just 71 new orders for its latest 737 models, the -800 and -900ER, at the air show. Boeing hasn't introduced a radically different version of its 737 in some time, so it was expected to do poorly in the final tallies. Big aircraft orders usually come when there is a new model, and Boeing hasn't rolled out a new version of its 737 workhorse in six years.

 

That's quite a long stretch to go without a gussied up new aircraft. The company seems to have focused all its energy in the last few years in launching its much-delayed mid-sized 787 aircraft, which finally enters service at the end of the summer.

 

Boeing understands that it is time to roll out a new 737, but it hasn't decided if it should totally redesign the aircraft, possibly constructing it from the same futuristic composite materials used in the 787, or just slap a new set of fuel-efficient engines to its old aluminum body and calling it a day. It could take an estimated $15 billion or more to redesign the aircraft, Carter Copeland, the aerospace analyst at Barclays Capital, told Fortune. He argues that since the 737 is already so efficient in its current form, it may not be cost-effective for Boeing to make such a big capital expenditure to redesign the aircraft.

 

"Frankly, there is a lot of financial and technical risk associated with doing a new airplane and Boeing need to be very comfortable with this because these are 'bet the company' type projects," Copeland says.

 

This is at the root of why Boeing has yet to make a decision. Copeland feels that Boeing has up to a year to make the decision, but that may be too late. There are signs that some of Boeing's most loyal customers have started talking to the other side.

 

Boeing's core customers are still the big U.S. airlines. American Airlines (AMR, Fortune 500) has been a loyal Boeing and McDonnell Douglas (acquired by Boeing in 1996) customer for decades. While it has bought non-Boeing planes for its American Eagle regional jet fleet, American, as its name suggests, prefers American-made aircrafts for its mainline fleet.

 

The company is now moving to totally revamp its fleet as it moves to retire the dozens of old MD-80 jets it acquired in the 80s and early 90s. The airline at one point had 300 MD-80's up in the sky. But since 2008, the airline has moved to replace them with new 737s, ordering around 119 new 737-800s in 2009 and 2010.

 

American's fleet is still in need of a major upgrade. But the Dallas-based carrier isn't just looking at Boeing. The new, more fuel-efficient A320neo, has caught the eye of management, according to a person briefed on the matter. Airbus is pushing hard, offering steep discounts to get American to sign on, this person said.

 

American was expected to announce a large order at the Paris Airshow, but it never came. The company is reportedly in heated negotiations with both Airbus and Boeing at this time with plans to order 250 planes worth around $15 billion. Grabbing American would be a coup for Airbus and would put a seal of approval on the A320neo. That could influence other U.S. carriers to follow its lead. The other mainline U.S. carriers -- US Airways (LCC, Fortune 500), United Airlines and Delta Airlines (DAL, Fortune 500) -- already operate a mix of Airbus and Boeing jets. All of them are in need of an upgrade and finally have some money to put down a deposit -- thanks, in part, to all those new revenue streams, like baggage fees.

 

Competition from China

 

The biggest threat to the 737s rein may not be from Airbus, but from China. Core customer Ryanair, one of the big European discount airlines, announced in February that it was in discussions with Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, COMAC, to acquire 200 to 400 new aircraft. COMAC is a brand new entrant in the market and has the potential to break the Boeing/Airbus duopoly. Ryan Air currently operates an all Boeing fleet made up of 272 737s and has no outstanding orders for new jets after it receives its last 737 from Boeing in 2012. The airline broke off negotiations with Airbus and Boeing in 2009 because it said it was unhappy with their pricing.

 

Ryanair, known to be frugal, needs an aircraft that fits its deep discount image. For example, the airline's colorful chief executive, Michael O'Leary, is upset with Boeing for not making an effective locking system for its onboard bathrooms that would allow the airline to start charging its customers to use the toilet. So it isn't surprising that he would be in negotiations with the Chinese to produce a cheap 200-seat airplane. Ryanair has yet to make a decision on whether or not it will abandon Boeing for COMAC, but it looks like it might just take a chance. Other discount airlines, looking to replicate Ryanair's success, may be persuaded to go with COMAC instead of the Boeing 737 when building up their fleets.

 

Notwithstanding Ryanair's possible defection, Boeing and Airbus seem unfazed by the COMAC threat. After all, it will take years, possibly decades, for the Chinese to become a credible threat in the commercial aviation space. So far, only Chinese airlines have ordered COMAC's prototype c919 jet, with the first jet set to go into service in 2016, five years from now.

 

While five years may seem like a long time, it's actually pretty standard lag time in the aviation business. Airlines order jets in bulk and take possession of them over several years. That is why it's critical for Boeing to nail down its core customers now, as any loss today would affect its bottom line for the next decade. While the Chinese still have to prove themselves, the Europeans have already shown that the A320 has become a formidable competitor to the 737. It's now up to Boeing to decide how it will respond to the neo threat before any of its key anchor clients decides to get adventurous and try something new.

 

Update: An earlier version of this story incorrectly stated that Indonesian airline Lion Air placed an order for 200 Airbus jets. In fact it was Malaysia-based airline AirAsia that placed that order.

 

 

First Published: July 5, 2011: 6:41 AM ET

QUOTE

 

Aibus had one helluva show last month. Boeing had their clock cleaned.

[TheFiend 1,181]

AirAsia's big A320neo order gets even bigger!!!

 

Malaysia's AirAsia extends Airbus deal to 300 planes

 

 

KUALA LUMPUR | Wed Jul 6, 2011 12:48am BST

 

KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - Malaysian budget airline AirAsia Bhd will extend a deal with Airbus for its new A320neo jets to 300 planes, a source familiar with the matter said.

 

The two sides had announced a deal for 200 planes at the Paris Air show last month, shattering aviation records, but the additional order takes the list price of the contract to a staggering $27 billion.

 

Like the previous order, the fresh 100 planes would also carry CFM International engines, the source said.

 

The source, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity, said AirAsia would receive a discount for the entire order, but did not give further details.

 

Deliveries of the latest batch of the A320neo planes will be at the discretion of AirAsia, the source added.

 

The initial order of 200 planes will be delivered from 2016.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Some news that will upset the Boeing fanboys...... American Airlines buying Airbus A320's and A320Neo's

 

From the BBC website.

 

American Airlines orders 460 Boeing and Airbus aircraft

 

American Airlines has announced multi-billion dollar orders for 460 new Boeing and Airbus planes.

 

The world's fourth-largest airline by number of passengers, American is buying 200 Boeing 737s and 260 Airbus A320 aircraft.

 

American described the twin deals as "the largest aircraft order in history".

 

Its parent company AMR Corporation added that the new single-aisle planes would "transform" American's fleet.

 

The new aircraft will be delivered between 2013 and 2022.

'Strong endorsement'

 

AMR chairman Gerard Arpey said American would have "the youngest and most fuel-efficient fleet among our peers in the US industry within five years".

 

He added: "This new fleet will dramatically improve our fuel and operating costs, while enhancing our financial flexibility."

 

The exact financial details of both deals have not been revealed.

 

Europe's Airbus said the American order was a "strong endorsement".

 

Tom Enders, Airbus president and chief executive, said: "We are extremely proud and gratified once again to count American Airlines among Airbus' global customers."

 

Airbus said that the order for 260 planes from its A320 "family" of aircraft would include its A319, A320 and A321 models.

 

Chicago-based Boeing said that American also had an option to buy a further 100 planes.

 

Both Airbus' A320 planes and Boeing's 737s are short to medium-range aircraft. Both hold approximately 200 passengers.

 

And flightglobal.com

 

American deal cements Airbus position in the USA

By David Kaminski-Morrow

 

Airbus can arguably claim to have secured the upper hand in the colossal American Airlines order, not simply because it will supply 56% of the 460 aircraft but because it cements its position in the highest ranks of US carriers.

 

While Airbus has achieved a presence within Delta Air Lines and Continental Airlines simply through their respective tie-ups with Northwest Airlines and United Airlines, the American deal - worth in the region of $35 billion - is an outright selection which ends Boeing's dominance at the US carrier, and means four of the top five US airlines will operate Airbus jets.

 

Airbus has been chasing the Boeing 757 retirement market with its A321neo, in particular, and would have seen American's fleet of 124 757s as a target.

 

It is unclear whether Boeing would have been relegated to a minority player in the deal but for its decision to offer American the prospect of a re-engined 737.

 

But Airbus had claimed earlier this year that its US rival would be forced into a re-engining of the 737 if it faced the prospect of losing a major customer to the A320neo, launched towards the end of 2010.

 

The European airframer, citing previous aircraft development parallels, had strongly suggested that Boeing would not follow through with talk of a new single-aisle aircraft.

 

Despite the taunting from Airbus, Boeing seemed to be leaning towards an all-new design, notably emphasising a belief that its current 737 would be able to hold its own against the A320neo - at least enough to buy valuable time to develop an all-new twinjet.

 

Chief executive Jim McNerney had described the all-new jet as the "leader in the clubhouse" in terms of the way Boeing was thinking.

 

Having scuppered any prospects for an announcement at the Paris air show, Boeing appeared to indicate that it would take several more months to reach a decision between the two options - leaving questions as to the trigger behind today's disclosure.

 

But an all-new aircraft would have required heavy investment and potentially made Boeing vulnerable in the meantime, particularly given the unexpected popularity of the A320neo.

 

Re-engining the 737 is less ambitious, at a time when Boeing is still reeling from delays to 787 and 747-8 development. Opting for a lower-profile programme could also enable Boeing to concentrate on upgrading its 777, and capitalise on recent delays to the Airbus A350 programme.

 

If American has effectively forced Boeing's hand, it might also have done the US airframer a favour by providing clarity for other competitions - such as that with Delta Air Lines - as well as putting up a further barrier to the Bombardier CSeries, which might have gained from a weak Boeing position ahead of an all-new narrowbody.

 

Unlike the situation on the A320neo, CFM is to retain its position as the sole powerplant provider for the re-engined 737, the manufacturer has confirmed, closing off half of the American deal to Pratt & Whitney which will only be able to vie for the A320neo portion

[Samsonite 181]

The order was split between the two as American Airlines said no one manufacturer could give them the number aircraft they need

when they need them.

 

Today’s news proves just how aggressive American is being in its fleet renewal. In fact, the airline said no single manufacturer could pull it off alone. American’s current fleet of more than 600 Boeing airplanes includes 156 Next-Generation 737-800s delivered to date. The agreement builds on their existing backlog of 64 Boeing airplanes consisting of 51 737-800s, seven 777-200ERs and six 777-300ERs.

 

http://boeingblogs.com/randy/archives/2011/07/the_next-generation_and_beyond.html

[TheFiend 1,181]

The order was split between the two as American Airlines said no one manufacturer could give them the number aircraft they need

when they need them.

 

A lot of Boeing fanboys were of the opinion AA were only talking to Airbus to get a better deal out of Boeing.... how wrong they were....

 

And part of the Boeing order is dependent on them committing to re-engine the 737NG, Boeing BOD haven't approved the re-engining yet.

[Samsonite 181]

A lot of Boeing fanboys were of the opinion AA were only talking to Airbus to get a better deal out of Boeing.... how wrong they were....

 

And part of the Boeing order is dependent on them committing to re-engine the 737NG, Boeing BOD haven't approved the re-engining yet.

Have you seen the financing deal Airbus gave AA? No bank in their right mind would make that deal. Airbus better hope to whatever God they pray to that AA, which is still bleeding money, doesn't file bankruptcy.

 

Boeing has been working a plan to re-engine the 737, among other improvements. The big problem is ground clearance for any engine with a bigger fan than the current power plant. Looks like the nose gear will have to be extended at least 8 inches. While they are at it the might was well use the newer, lighter weight aluminum alloys that Alcoa has recently introduced.

 

Boeing's biggest problem is their senior management. The company has been on a downward spiral since the McDonnell/Douglas "merger" and every time you think things might be better, they ultimately get worst. As I've said before, Boeing needs to flush the executive suite and try and bring back all the older Boeing trained managers they can find to run the company and train a new corps of leaders (who have ENGINEERING backgrounds).

 

What I don't understand, and I've never heard an explanation, is WHY in today's computerized world, does it take so long to build

an airplane? You would think they could do a nose gear extension and get it out the door and in the hands of the airlines in months,

not years.

The original Boeing 747 was done with paper, pencils and slide rules, and it rolled out in something like 18 months and flew in less than a year later.

 

DATE:20/07/11

SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence news

Final 737 re-engine configuration down to four possible fan sizes

By Jon Ostrower

 

Boeing plans to have a final configuration solidified for its re-engined 737 within three to four weeks, with final decisions focusing on the size of the CFM International Leap-X engine that will exclusively power the new variant, says Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO Jim Albaugh.

 

"We've got an extremely firm configuration on the airplane," said Albaugh on the sidelines of the American Airlines press conference announcing the purchase of 460 aircraft split between Boeing and Airbus, including 100 of the re-engined 737s, which aim to be 12-15% more fuel efficient than today's Next Generation 737.

 

"There's one critical decision that we have to make and we should be able to make that over the next three or four weeks. We need to look at the fan size, we need to look at the engine, we've got four different options that we've looked at, all of them are good."

 

Albaugh declined to disclose the fan sizes being entertained or how much larger they could be than today's 1.5m (61in) CFM56-7BE fan diameter.

 

737 chief engineer John Hamilton said in a June interview: "We've looked at fan sizes of 1.8m (70in) and we know it can fit under the airplane. With the larger fan sizes we have to extend the nose gear to create a little more space.

 

"We're still trying to find that sweetspot. As you go up in fan size you get diminishing returns on fuel burn" with a higher engine weight and drag, added Hamilton.

 

Industry sources say an 20cm (8in) increase in nose gear would be required to accommodate a 1.8m fan.

 

Boeing must maintain a 43cm (17in) clearance underneath each nacelle in order to clear taxiway lights.

 

Albaugh added that Boeing aims for a mid-decade first delivery, with American's first Leap-X-powered 737 to arrive in the carrier's fleet by 2018.

 

While Albaugh did not elaborate on the mid-decade timing, comments from the company's May investor conference pointed to a 2016 or 2017 entry into service.

 

Following the establishment of its firm configuration, Albaugh said the airframer will seek the authority to offer the new 737 variant, adding: "I think the probability of board approval is high, but I'm not going to presuppose what the board is going to do."

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/07/20/359751/final-737-re-engine-configuration-down-to-four-possible-fan.html

Edited July 21, 2011 by Samsonite

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Well done to Airbus for getting their foot in the door. The future looks bright.

[BigDUSA 71]

Have you seen the financing deal Airbus gave AA? No bank in their right mind would make that deal. Airbus better hope to whatever God they pray to that AA, which is still bleeding money, doesn't file bankruptcy.

 

Airbus has the EU taxpayer to pay the bills. It's easy to offer financing at a loss when the EU taxpayer is footing the bill.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Have you seen the financing deal Airbus gave AA?

 

Have you?

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Good news for Airbus.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14337735

 

29 July 2011 Last updated at 07:46

Airbus owner EADS sees strong sales

 

European aerospace giant EADS has reported first-half sales ahead of expectations, amid strong demand for its Airbus aircraft.

Sales rose 8% to 21.9bn euros ($31.3bn; £19.2bn), while it took orders worth 58.1bn euros in the period.

 

EADS said orders at the recent Paris Air Show had been "record-breaking".

 

However, net profit fell 41% on the first half of 2010 to 109m euros after the company faced higher financial charges at the beginning of the year.

 

And it said the weakening US dollar and British pound were offsetting higher sales.

 

"Deliveries remained at a high level, with 258 aircraft at Airbus Commercial, 205 helicopters at Eurocopter and the 44th consecutive successful Ariane 5 launch," EADS said.

 

'Continuing momentum'

 

Last month, American Airlines placed what it called "the largest aircraft order in history".

 

It ordered 260 Airbus A320 aircraft, as well as 200 Boeing 737s.

 

"Our results for the first half of 2011 mirror the strong demand in the commercial aviation sector," said EADS chief executive Louis Gallois.

 

"In terms of orders, Paris Air Show was record-breaking for us, particularly thanks to the A320neo.

 

"The recent historic order by American Airlines adds to this remarkable success story as the strong commercial momentum continues beyond Le Bourget."

[BigDUSA 71]

SEATTLE (Reuters) - Boeing Co on Saturday afternoon rolled out the first 787 Dreamliner to be delivered to launch customer All Nippon Airways , decked out with the blue and white colors of the Japanese airline.

 

Boeing presented the plane to ANA executives and crew under clear skies at its Everett factory north of Seattle. The first domestic flights are set to start in Japan in September.

 

"The plane is being certified to the highest FAA standards," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager, 787 program. "But the real focus of the traveling public will likely be on customer satisfaction and the elegance of the flight."

 

The 787 Dreamliner is a lightweight airplane that promises 20 percent greater fuel efficiency to operators than similarly sized planes. Boeing says as much as 50 percent of the primary structure will be made of composite materials instead of aluminum.

 

Aviation experts expect Boeing to apply the technology to future airplanes.

 

The interior of the first aircraft includes 264 seats -- 12 business and 252 economy -- with personal television sets, roomier seats, an automatic toilet with a wash function, more storage, an arched entry way with a beverage bar, dimmable windows and larger lavatories.

 

Boeing, the world's second-largest plane maker after Airbus EADS , is about three years behind schedule in delivering the first 787 largely because of snags in the unusually complex global supply chain.

 

The 787 is almost finished with flight tests and is set for delivery to ANA in September.

 

Boeing has taken 827 orders for the Dreamliner, a record number for a Boeing plane still in development. ANA has ordered 55 Dreamliners. The planes list for about $200 million.

 

Boeing is developing two versions of the Dreamliner. The first version, the 787-8, will carry 210 to 250 passengers on routes of 7,650 to 8,200 nautical miles. A second version, the 787-9, will carry 250 to 290 passengers on routes of 8,000 to 8,500 nautical miles.

 

Boeing also has been talking about a third, larger variant, the 787-10, and says it is seeing strong airline interest in the plane.

QUOTE

[TheFiend 1,181]

SEATTLE (Reuters) - Boeing Co on Saturday afternoon rolled out the first 787 Dreamliner to be delivered to launch customer All Nippon Airways , decked out with the blue and white colors of the Japanese airline.

 

Boeing presented the plane to ANA executives and crew under clear skies at its Everett factory north of Seattle. The first domestic flights are set to start in Japan in September.

 

 

Publicity stunt as the 787 hasn't passed certification yet..... and surprise, surprise it happened on 7th day of the 8th month...

[Samsonite 181]

Publicity stunt as the 787 hasn't passed certification yet..... and surprise, surprise it happened on 7th day of the 8th month...

 

Only about a week or so to go, if that long, and the flight testing for the 787 will be finished. The flight testing for the new 747-8 concluded a week ago. At the current rate they have been flying the 787 test fleet, it could be completed by the end of this coming week. Then they file the paper work with the FAA and wait for their approval.

[eltib 54]

SEATTLE (Reuters) - Boeing Co on Saturday afternoon rolled out the first 787 Dreamliner to be delivered to launch customer All Nippon Airways , decked out with the blue and white colors of the Japanese airline.

 

Boeing presented the plane to ANA executives and crew under clear skies at its Everett factory north of Seattle. The first domestic flights are set to start in Japan in September.

 

"The plane is being certified to the highest FAA standards," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager, 787 program. "But the real focus of the traveling public will likely be on customer satisfaction and the elegance of the flight."

 

The 787 Dreamliner is a lightweight airplane that promises 20 percent greater fuel efficiency to operators than similarly sized planes. Boeing says as much as 50 percent of the primary structure will be made of composite materials instead of aluminum.

 

Aviation experts expect Boeing to apply the technology to future airplanes.

 

The interior of the first aircraft includes 264 seats -- 12 business and 252 economy -- with personal television sets, roomier seats, an automatic toilet with a wash function, more storage, an arched entry way with a beverage bar, dimmable windows and larger lavatories.

 

Boeing, the world's second-largest plane maker after Airbus EADS , is about three years behind schedule in delivering the first 787 largely because of snags in the unusually complex global supply chain.

 

The 787 is almost finished with flight tests and is set for delivery to ANA in September.

 

Boeing has taken 827 orders for the Dreamliner, a record number for a Boeing plane still in development. ANA has ordered 55 Dreamliners. The planes list for about $200 million.

 

Boeing is developing two versions of the Dreamliner. The first version, the 787-8, will carry 210 to 250 passengers on routes of 7,650 to 8,200 nautical miles. A second version, the 787-9, will carry 250 to 290 passengers on routes of 8,000 to 8,500 nautical miles.

 

Boeing also has been talking about a third, larger variant, the 787-10, and says it is seeing strong airline interest in the plane.

QUOTE

 

 

Didn't you say it was going to fly in 2007? Try 4 years, if I remember you starting this topic, that Tom had to resurrect, after I had asked you to rename it. Anyway, now the meat and potatoes will now occur, and we shall see if the claims are true that it has "20 percent greater fuel efficiency to operators than similarly sized planes."

Edited August 8, 2011 by eltib

[Samsonite 181]

Didn't you say it was going to fly in 2007? Try 4 years, if I remember you starting this topic, that Tom had to resurrect, after I had asked you to rename it. Anyway, now the meat and potatoes will now occur, and we shall see if the claims are true that it has "20 percent greater fuel efficiency to operators than similarly sized planes."

 

"SEATTLE (Reuters)...Boeing ...is about three years behind schedule in delivering the first 787 largely because of snags in the unusually complex global supply chain...."

 

The original delivery date, and that is what is mentioned in the article, was May 2008, so by the time it is delivered to ANA in September, next month, it will be 3 years and 4 months late.

 

With over 4,700 flight hours under its belt you would think they would know by now if it meets spec or not. They are claiming it will.

 

BTW, first flight was in December 2009.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Samsonite

[wacmedia 277]

Didn't you say it was going to fly in 2007? Try 4 years, if I remember you starting this topic, that Tom had to resurrect, after I had asked you to rename it.

 

Hi,

 

Give the guy a break. He is only a few months/years out.