Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Emirates' Clark: 787 delay inevitable but insignificant

 

 

"It would have been a miracle for Boeing to have flown the 787 on time,"

 

 

The whole world and his dog knows that. Just that some people couldn't acknowledge the fact.

 

Mind you, its the delay that has been announced up until now, before the aircraft has even been built, that is insignificant .......... or at least it's insignificant for Emirates. Probably because they haven't actually ordered any 787s.

Edited September 11, 2007 by CheshireTom

[Samsonite 181]

September 15, 2007

 

A350 to have composite fuselage not metal frame

 

Saturday, the Wall Street Journal reported that Airbus has changed the A350 design and will go with a composite fuselage frame.

 

"We thought the design we had was very good, but this one is even better," John Leahy, Airbus chief operating officer for customers, told the paper.

 

Here is part of the Journal story:

 

For months, Airbus had been telling customers that attaching skin panels made of carbon-fiber composites to an aluminum-alloy skeleton was superior to Boeing's method of making both the frame and fuselage of the Dreamliner from composites.

 

But Airbus, a unit of Franco-German European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co., began to rethink its position after encountering resistance from customers who questioned whether the A350 would be more difficult to maintain than the Dreamliner.

 

Airbus has faced public pressure from several key customers throughout the design of the A350. After encountering criticism for first proposing the plane in 2004 with a more traditional all-aluminum fuselage, Airbus said in July 2006 that it was renaming the airplane the A350 XWB, for extra-wide body. Those plans called for making the skeleton of aluminum and the skins of composites, even though some aerospace engineers warned that such a combination could set the stage for corrosion and would require extra attention.

 

John Plueger, president and chief operating officer of leasing titan International Lease Finance Corp., which had criticized Airbus's plans to use the aluminum frame, said he believes Airbus is making the right decision.

 

"This is what we were hoping for," Mr. Plueger said. "We're getting more and more interest in the plane from our leasing customers, so the sooner Airbus can get it to market, the better."

 

There have been a number of heated discussions on this blog about the previous decision by Airbus to have composite panels and a metal frame.

 

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerospace/

[TheFiend 1,181]

That shows that Airbus listens to it's customers

[wacmedia 277]

HI,

 

I think at this stage it is fair to say the Sage of Philidelphia, Investment Guru, Fashionista and War Hero got it wrong.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

HI,

 

I think at this stage it is fair to say the Sage of Philidelphia, Investment Guru, Fashionista and War Hero got it wrong.

 

Whatever happened to the Fruitcase? Was he only visiting this planet, or what?

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Meanwhile, over at The Wall Street Journal (Respected publication that it is) ...... was reported as saying .......

 

September 17, 2007

Suppliers Mock Boeing

 

Boeing (BA) insists that it 787 Dreamliner will be delivered on time next year, despite a multi-month delay in its maiden flight. Lack of parts for the new plane and assembly problems have vexed the big US airplane maker, much as they did rival Airbus over a year ago. Airbus delays cost its orders for its new planes, and many of these customers went to Boeing.

 

Apparently, Boeing's suppliers are willing to say what Boeing is not. The Wall Street Journal writes: "We looked at each other and said, 'Are they kidding?'" said a senior Boeing supplier who listened in on the conference call in which Boeing broke the news to Wall Street analysts and reporters.

 

Is Boeing acting responsibly toward its investors and customers? Probably not. The odds that it cannot deliver the plane on time are clearly increasing very quickly. In its analysis, The Journal adds "according to people familiar with the program, suppliers at factories in Italy, Japan and the U.S. continue to experience chronic parts shortages."

 

Boeing needs to come clean on what the market already know. It cannot deliver its 787 on time. If its comes close, it is no shame. If customers think they have been toyed with, Boeing starts to get a reputation like the one Airbus has. It cannot deliver products and it is not willing to admit that until it is too late for customers to change their plans.

 

Douglas A. McIntyre

[eltib 54]

Meanwhile, over at The Wall Street Journal (Respected publication that it is) ...... was reported as saying .......

 

September 17, 2007

Suppliers Mock Boeing

 

Boeing (BA) insists that it 787 Dreamliner will be delivered on time next year, despite a multi-month delay in its maiden flight. Lack of parts for the new plane and assembly problems have vexed the big US airplane maker, much as they did rival Airbus over a year ago. Airbus delays cost its orders for its new planes, and many of these customers went to Boeing.

 

Apparently, Boeing's suppliers are willing to say what Boeing is not. The Wall Street Journal writes: "We looked at each other and said, 'Are they kidding?'" said a senior Boeing supplier who listened in on the conference call in which Boeing broke the news to Wall Street analysts and reporters.

 

Is Boeing acting responsibly toward its investors and customers? Probably not. The odds that it cannot deliver the plane on time are clearly increasing very quickly. In its analysis, The Journal adds "according to people familiar with the program, suppliers at factories in Italy, Japan and the U.S. continue to experience chronic parts shortages."

 

Boeing needs to come clean on what the market already know. It cannot deliver its 787 on time. If its comes close, it is no shame. If customers think they have been toyed with, Boeing starts to get a reputation like the one Airbus has. It cannot deliver products and it is not willing to admit that until it is too late for customers to change their plans.

 

Douglas A. McIntyre

 

He should have wrote it like this though.

 

Boeing needs to come clean on what the market already know. It cannot deliver its 787 on time. If its comes close, it is no shame. If customers think they have been toyed with, Boeing reputation will suffer worse than the one Airbus has. This is due to fact of past ethical lapses into government contracts, and overcharging the US taxpayer. It also cannot deliver products and it is not willing to admit that until it is too late for customers to change their plans.

 

Revised by eltib

 

 

 

Whatever happened to the Fruitcase? Was he only visiting this planet, or what?

 

I think he's hanging out more at Secrets BB.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Is BigD's prediction proving to be the kiss of death for Boeing ............

 

Too many reports coming out now that makes it seem like a case of deja-vu ..........

 

Fastner problem could prove longer term hindrance to Boeing

By Stephen Trimble

 

A deeper and more widespread fastener shortage than previously thought may continue to hamper 787 production long after the first aircraft is fully assembled and in flight test.

 

Boeing has confirmed the issue with temporary fasteners that helped to delay the 787's first flight date by at least three months is not limited to thousands of individual fasteners, but actually thousands of types of fasteners.

 

Boeing chief executive Jim McNerney also warned at an investor conference on 11 September that the problem of fastener shortages may pose a long-term management risk for the 787. Previously, Boeing executives have said the fastener issue should be resolved after the 20th aircraft is completed on the assembly line.

 

"We're making a progress but it's still a scramble though," he said. "It's still a scramble, if I'm honest."

 

Jeff Turner, chief executive of Spirit AeroSystems added: "Fasteners are still a real painful exercise. We spend a lot of energy across all of or product frankly to get all the fasteners that we need."

 

Boeing attributed the fastener shortage to industrial capacity issues, blaming a wave of consolidation in the fastener industry several years ago. The new consolidated firms, such as Alcoa, he said, "misjudged" the air transport industry's rebound after 2004 and failed to invest in new capacity.

 

However Turner, addressing the Morgan Stanley Industrials CEO Conference, said he believed the shortage was actually caused by Boeing's decision to build a mostly composite airframe.

 

"If you are a builder of metal airplane componentry and commodities I think you kind of took a deep breath," Turner said. "So I think maybe you had a natural lag in trying to plan and catch the cycle."

 

Meanwhile, Boeing's largest suppliers confirm that both fastener shortages and system installation delays are hampering efforts to meet the 787's new first flight window from mid-November to mid-December.

 

To address supplier concerns, Boeing has given them a 40 to 45-day schedule buffer by resequencing the assembly schedule, moving delivery of the fatigue airframe ahead of delivery of the second flight test aircraft, McNerney said.

 

That schedule change is intended to relieve pressure on suppliers to fully assemble their sections despite the fastener shortage, but the supply chain is also wrestling with delays of systems equipment.

 

"When Boeing talks about needing to resequence, part of the resequencing is that, by and large, we had our structure done and the systems weren't there to integrate into that," Turner said. "Knowing what I do now, I think I would have had our team work a lot harder trying to pull that systems definition and installation plan sooner."

[eltib 54]

Is BigD's prediction proving to be the kiss of death for Boeing ............

 

Too many reports coming out now that makes it seem like a case of deja-vu ..........

 

Jeff Turner, chief executive of Spirit AeroSystems added: "Fasteners are still a real painful exercise. We spend a lot of energy across all of or product frankly to get all the fasteners that we need."

 

Boeing attributed the fastener shortage to industrial capacity issues, blaming a wave of consolidation in the fastener industry several years ago. The new consolidated firms, such as Alcoa, he said, "misjudged" the air transport industry's rebound after 2004 and failed to invest in new capacity.

 

However Turner, addressing the Morgan Stanley Industrials CEO Conference, said he believed the shortage was actually caused by Boeing's decision to build a mostly composite airframe.

 

I know who Jeff Turner is. Before his big jump to CEO of Spirit Aerosystems, he was site director for Boeing Commercial Airplanes of Wichita. As many know Boeing sold that division. And Boeing blaming the wave of consolidation, when they sold off those operations to Spirit and GKN? Shessh they can't even accept responsibility for their own actions of greed.

[The Mook 105]

This "NEW" news regarding parts (fasteners) is months old.

Who gives a shit if they're 1 1/2 months late; it's not like its years.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

This "NEW" news regarding parts (fasteners) is months old.

Who gives a shit if they're 1 1/2 months late; it's not like its years.

 

The news was announced by Boeing on Monday of this week. The aircraft was due to make its first flight in August, now they are saying Mid-November to mid-December. That is not 1 1/2 months, is it? So, contrary to the title of the thread, it is not on schedule. If nobody gives a shit, why start a thread on the subject in the first place.

[eltib 54]

The news was announced by Boeing on Monday of this week. The aircraft was due to make its first flight in August, now they are saying Mid-November to mid-December. That is not 1 1/2 months, is it? So, contrary to the title of the thread, it is not on schedule. If nobody gives a shit, why start a thread on the subject in the first place.

 

It was also announced this morning on the news, that the virtual border that Boeing was contracted to build, is not working.

Edited September 21, 2007 by eltib

[CheshireTom 1,377]

It was also announced this morning on the news, that the virtual border that Boeing was contracted to build, is not working.

 

I read that but, as Scally never tires of telling us, Boeing delivers on time, on spec, on budget.

[wacmedia 277]

It was also announced this morning on the news, that the virtual border that Boeing was contracted to build, is not working.

 

 

Hi,

 

They should stick to what they know. Building planes ???

[eltib 54]

I read that but, as Scally never tires of telling us, Boeing delivers on time, on spec, on budget.

 

Hi,

 

They should stick to what they know. Building planes ???

 

 

 

I'd better put up a link before Scallie accuses me of making up stories....

 

Border Fence doesn't work

Edited September 21, 2007 by eltib

[Samsonite 181]

Here we go again, revisions 6 and 7 and 8 and ......

 

DATE:21/09/07

SOURCE:Flightglobal.com

Airbus confirms switch to A380-style nose for A350 XWB

By Max Kingsley-Jones

 

Airbus has decided on a raft of revisions to the configuration of its A350 XWB family, including the adoption of a new nose shape and changes to the structural make-up of the fuselage.

 

Proposals revealed by flightglobal.com earlier this year to reprofile and revise the XWB’s nose section have been confirmed by the airframer. The design now incorporates a configuration derived from the A380 with a forward-mounted nosegear bay and new cockpit-window glazing.

 

The unusual four-window arrangement that was a feature of the original XWB design has gone, with a more conventional six-panel flightdeck windscreen similar to its big sister in its place.

 

The cockpit fuselage section will be constructed from aluminium lithium, with Airbus deciding against adopting a one-piece carbonfibre structure that it had been evaluating preiously.

 

A350 XWB chief engineer Gordon McConnell says that the nose reprofile was made partly for improved aerodynamics and also to enable the overhead crew rest to be installed further forward and eliminate any encroachment in the passenger cabin.

 

He adds that strength requirements for birdstrike protection were partly behind the decision to adopt a metallic nose structure. "If we went for a composite structure we'd have to reinforce the area above the cockpit with titanium which is expensive," he says.

 

A key change is the switch from metallic to carbonfibre fuselage frames, although the fuselage crossbeams remain metallic. "These could also be switched to carbonfibre, but we're still running trade-off studies," says McConnell.

 

The plan to use large carbonfibre fuselage panels for the main fuselage skin has not changed.

 

The decision to switch to carbonfibre frames comes after several of Airbus’s key customers, including International Lease Finance and Emirates, had been vocal in their criticism of the XWB’s fuselage construction in recent months.

 

"The change addresses concerns over possible corrosion risks between metallic frames and carbonfibre," says McConnell. He adds that the switch also eliminates some of the "perceived maintentnace programme inspection requirements" that resulted from the use of metallic frames.

 

Airbus remains on target to reach its "freeze of aircraft concept" in October 2008. The first version of the three-model XWB family to enter service will be the 314-seat -900, in mid-2013."

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/...r-a350-xwb.html

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Scally,

 

Wrong thread, mate. This one is about the 787 ............ Even Isaan girls get their noses redesigned; it's no big deal.

 

You got nothing to say on the subject in hand?

Edited September 22, 2007 by CheshireTom

[eltib 54]

Scally,

 

Even Isaan girls get their noses redesigned; it's no big deal.

 

 

I my ass off when I read it. Glad I didn't I wasn't drinking my coffee, or it would have came out of my nose.

 

 

Good one Tom...

[Samsonite 181]

The topic is the B787 and the plane airbust is trying, someday, maybe, if they can get the funding, to build, is more on topic than a "virtual border."

[eltib 54]

The topic is the B787 and the plane airbust is trying, someday, maybe, if they can get the funding, to build, is more on topic than a "virtual border."

 

Well the Virtual border is a Boeing product, and it's fashionably late like the 787. Maybe we can get Big D to change the topic to "Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule." Will that satisfy you?

 

 

We can also include if Issan girls need nose jobs...

 

Edited September 22, 2007 by eltib

[The Mook 105]

Cheshire:

The announcement may have been made this week, but there was an article

about a parts bottleneck/delay in the WSJ months ago. If you're going to criticise,

you may want to ask before contradicting. Threads about the airline industry

started out as a decent addition to the board; it's a few contributors in the USA

vs. Europe shit show that have degraded it.

MOOK

Edited September 22, 2007 by The Mook

[BigDUSA 71]

Well the Virtual border is a Boeing product, and it's fashionably late like the 787. Maybe we can get Big D to change the topic to "Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule." Will that satisfy you?

 

 

We can also include if Issan girls need nose jobs...

 

 

All you have to do is 'ask nice'. I think we need a separate topic for BG from Issan that need nose jobs.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Cheshire:

The announcement may have been made this week, but there was an article

about a parts bottleneck/delay in the WSJ months ago. If you're going to criticise,

you may want to ask before contradicting. Threads about the airline industry

started out as a decent addition to the board; it's a few contributors in the USA

vs. Europe shit show that have degraded it.

MOOK

 

No, mook ...... there were reports of a shortage and speculation that it could hinder the 787.

 

I merely posted the confirmation from the horse's mouth. I could just as easily point out that BM, Indiscipline, posted as far back as last November exactly what the problems were that are only now being acknowledged by Boeing.

 

The threads have always been about the US v EU ..... the title of one thread was "Boeing is kicking Euro butt". You were keen enough to go along with all the Euro/Airbus bashing but now that things ain't turning out quite as rosy as you wished/hoped for the threads are now "degraded". Just learn to live with it; I'm quite sure that the 787 saga has some way to go yet.

[BigDUSA 71]

The threads have always been about the US v EU ..... the title of one thread was "Boeing is kicking Euro butt". You were keen enough to go along with all the Euro/Airbus bashing but now that things ain't turning out quite as rosy as you wished/hoped for the threads are now "degraded". Just learn to live with it; I'm quite sure that the 787 saga has some way to go yet.

 

I only changed it because you started to whine.

[eltib 54]

All you have to do is 'ask nice'. I think we need a separate topic for BG from Issan that need nose jobs.

 

Thanx BigD.