Help, What is a streaming Music License

[chris_heaton 4]

Well it had to happen sometime, I was raided by the powers that be!

 

As all bar owners should know by now raids have been going on around Pattaya looking for copy CD's being played in bars. Now before anyone says "Good, get rid of piracy" If they wanted to stop piracy they could easily arrest all the people selling discs on beach road, the markets, the shops and for that matter everywhere else. But no, this is just another excuse to easily steal money.

 

Wanting to stay within the law I made sure that there were no copied CD's in the bar and told the girls that they were to make sure none ever came in. I also switched to streaming the music from our PC, all of the music was bought officially from mp3sugar.

 

Well this Thai lady and man came into the bar and started talking to my manager. I asked what was going on and she said looking for CD's. Feeling pretty smug I said fine no problem. Next minute the lady was behind the bar going though all the bits and pieces. I said she was not allowed behind there and a policeman appeared and said she was! Next minute a copy MP3 CD appeared in her hand. I was shocked! And strangely enough it wasn't planted either. Turned out no matter how many times you order your staff not to allow them in the bar, they bring them to play when you are not there. They just love their Thai Music. (Note: I've also been told it's illegal for a farang bar to play Thai Music!).

 

This disc gave them the excuse they were looking for. The girl then started operating the PC and doing a search for all media. Up popped a picture of me with one of our girls topless. It was one of the pics I uploaded to this forum and forgot to delete after. Well she blew it up to full screen and the policeman was taking photographs of the screen. Next minute she was disconnecting everything and trying to confiscate all my PC equipment, touch screen monitor, and everything connected to the PC.

 

I started screaming that they need a warrant to remove anything from the bar, Don't know if that's true but it sounded good and gave me a few minutes grace to call my Thai wife and local friendly policeman.

 

Many times the girls tried to take the computer and each time I pulled it out of her arms. She looked at me as if I was crazy! They worst part was as well as the computer they also wanted to take me to the police station!

 

For readers not based in Thailand I should mention that this is two well known scams. Fistly the computer. Once they take it you have to buy it back from them. Normally about 60,000 baht. Secondly was taking me to the police station. This is much more serious. They threaten you with prison or deportation unless you pay about a million baht. Don't pay and you are off to the monkey house.

 

Like an idiot I stood my ground, eventually the police asked what type of Visa I had. They were told it was a married man's visa. They accepted this and said OK, they would not take me BUT they would still take the computer AND MY MANAGER (Na). I knew if she was taken it would cost me a fortune to get her back. If I didn't pay she would be in prison.

 

With tears in her eyes she told me it was OK, she would go with them. She didn't mind going to prison, better her than me because if I went I could not pay the money and would be deported. Also it was better for a Thai to be in Prison than Farang. My respect for her leapt up a thousand percent.

 

Just then my wife arrived with our Policeman. A discussion took place and I was told they would not take the computer but they were still taking my Manager. More discussions and angry policeman (Not ours) later they did not take either the computer or our manager BUT my wife had to visit the ATM a couple of times and a large amount of baht was handed over. (Of course we never got a receipt for this!) Happy with the proceeds from their robbery the official representatives of the Thai Government disappeared into the night.

 

Now of course all MP3s and photo's have been removed from the computer. But they left with a warning that it is illegal to play music at all without a music license or a special license to stream music. Problem is I have never heard of these licenses. Could any bar owner who knows about them please tell me where to get one from!

 

Ah Well TIT!, I was expecting to be scammed sometime, the bar next door was done a few days ago. The worst thing is, even though all this happened, the girls will still bring their MP3 discs into the bar! At the meeting today they will all be told if they do they will be instantly sacked, but I know they will just ignore me, I'm just a stupid farang.

 

Chris

Edited April 11, 2007 by chris_heaton

[Shuggy 8]

Sorry to hear about your hassle mate. But then i'm not surprised. As you said in your post TIT and unfortunately there is feck all that you can do about it.

 

The government is too busy trying to stop people drinking in the afternoons and insisting on the installation of CCTV systems to bother with the epidemic of corruption that is surging through its own ranks.

[Cerberus 97]

There is now a music "Licence", funnily its is paid into an account in Bangkok Bank, 3,300.00 Baht I seem to remember. After payment you get a recorded delivery letter with the licence inside, nothing to do with City Hall this, Copy Right apparently although the organisation in the USA have never heard of this group nor do they have an agreement in place.

 

The police do enforce it though

[vidman 2]

Stories like this just make you examine your brain when owning or running any business in thailand!

 

Thailand REALLY needs to worry about the arse falling out of the farang market (both expat and tourists)

 

Have we all out-stayed our welcome here?

 

I will never understand why such a religious (and karma related country) find it acceptable to cheat, kill ,steal etc another human being so easily.

 

I,m not putting everyone into the same pigeon hole (as i know MANY good hearted thais that WOULD NEVER shit on anyone)...however it is apparent that there must be a lot of hypocrites (in powerful positions) that enter a wat well knowing that they do stuff like the above post!!!

 

vid

[rockinjerry 2]

Chris:

 

Too bad, mate! Suggest you contact Mulphy, owner The Rockhouse, LK Metro. He has a website. Don't recall off hand if he posts on this board, but he does post on Secrets board. Secrets also recently had their music equiptment confiscated for playing Thai music. You could contact Ben (owner) at Secrets. Secrets has a website. Or, Sunny Valentine (owner Manfred) at Lennie's. These guys should be able to give you guidance.

 

Good Luck!

 

Just looked and both Mulphy and Sunny Valentine have posts within this topic.

Edited April 11, 2007 by rockinjerry

[kolobos 0]

I dont know the details 100%, however, I have a bar and my business partner has gone about her business acquiring a music license, she had to take photos of the bar/speakers/music system and one of herself! She had to go to Nongprue District office first (where we are), then off to Banglamung Office and she was finally sent somewhere else...took nearly a whole day to complete and it cost 169 baht including a nice new frame.

 

Here is a picture of the needed item, which doesnt come with the red blobs!

[torrenova 644]

Loads of shit now. Seems that one of the licenses depends upon the amount of seats you have ! And one is negotiable !

[beerforme 0]

Is it just me, or is it hard for all westerners to understand just how fucking corrupt some countries like Thailand are? People slag off the cops in their own countries, but in the west the authorities are generally pretty straight. It seems like the authorities in the so-called LOS are incapable of lying straight in bed, but there's no fucking excuse.

I've been spending more and more time in Singapore recently- and my wife wants to live there- and it prides itself in being corruption free. Sure it has some strict laws, but prostitution is tolerated ( not sure if it is legal or not) and everyone is safe. Chinese, Indian and Malay, among others make up the population. There's no conflict, no shit, so why can't other Asian countries be like that?

 

 

As an ex-cop, I find the stories that I have read sickening. IMHO, anyone from the west who decided to live in LOS is brave, very brave, and good luck to them.

 

 

Edited by MM to remove reference to Royals

Edited April 15, 2007 by MM

[papillon 695]

Chris, I'm not sure there is much to complain about here (BTW I'm not saying that you are complaining)?

 

In England you are required to have a License for playing music.

 

Why shouldn't Thailand expect the same to be paid for?

 

Ignorance of the Law is no excuse.

 

The fact that you have topless pics on your PC is far worse than your staff playing pirate music.

 

Don't make the mistake of thinking it's just a third world country so you don't need to be on your toes.

 

Having a Thai Wife and a 'Friendly' Local Cop is great. Do you have a Thai Lawyer on a retainer?

 

The fact that the matter was ultimately settled by a trip to the ATM has got to be good news as far as you are concerned?

 

OK, it sucks that Cops/Officials are corrupt but in this instance, it saved you from a spell behind bars.

 

Get used to it or start socialising higher up the foodchain asofar Cops go!

 

Thanks for posting though. It was an interesting read and I like to hear about these trials and tribulations of running a bar.

 

I wish you good luck and I hope to spend a few quid at your establishment one day

 

PS. Sack the Manager that set you up with the Thai MP3 CD

[chris_heaton 4]

That manager was the same one who did her best to stop them taking me to the police station. In the end they got fed up with her saying not to take me that they decided to take her! The Thai CD was not a set up. It was her being stupid. Nearly all bars will play Thai music if the owner is not there. Thai girls normaly do not like Farang Classic Rock (with a few exceptions).

 

The staff are now understand that all Thai music stays in their rooms. Anyone bringing a CD into the bar will be instantly dismissed!

 

As for ignorance of the law. I want to know what the law is!!! I still do not know what time I am supposed to close! Is it 12am, 1am, or 2 am. Am I allowed to sell alcohol in the afternoon? Police say "No" others say "Yes". When you finaly figure out the law they change it the next day!

 

Now I have to find a way to deal with all the sellers of illegal CD's & DVD's that come into the bar. The problem is a Farang will buy some CD's and then get drunk and walk out of the bar without them. We have built a large collection this way. They never come back and ask for them. Guesse because they are so cheap. Anyway it only takes another raid and they will find them on the bar in little bags.

 

Maybe I should ban all hawkers of these DVD's from entering the bar.

 

Chris

Edited April 16, 2007 by chris_heaton

[alan lad 0]

hi chris

 

I am away and while the wife is asleep i am doing some work and saw your post ,the police will be likly to come back so you should talk with a lawyer to make sure that you have all that you need .

 

A guy that i use is khun Paiboon his number is 0814290759 he speaks good english . His office is in soi rungland not far from "cat" phone company.

 

Give him a call and tell him i sent you from New Living Dolls 1 please dont say alan as he wont know who you are talking about.

 

Sit with him and take ALL your paperwork with you and let him look at it .

 

It wont be long before i will be back in town i will see you then .

 

alan

[pompoiman 0]

Has anyone thought of videoing the corrupt officials as they go about there buisness, i seem to remember reading that the authorities are trying to crack down on corruption, if you had cctv in the bar it would all be on film, would these officials go about there buisness in the same manner if they thought they were being filmed??? or is that just

[vidman 2]

Curruption:

 

I had a laughable 30mins observing the cop at the bottom of soi post office (at beach rd).

 

He always sits there and i counted 3 farang in 30mins, coming down the wrong way. They were stopped and sent to Police station (via motorcycle taxi).

 

The laughable bit was he let 2 thai bike drivers go!!!!!

 

If it had been me i would have palmed 200baht behind my licence to the cop. Save all the hassle

 

of course if it had been me, i wouldnt have went down in the first place

[papillon 695]

That manager was the same one who did her best to stop them taking me to the police station. In the end they got fed up with her saying not to take me that they decided to take her! The Thai CD was not a set up. It was her being stupid. Nearly all bars will play Thai music if the owner is not there.

 

That's good.

 

The cynic in me was thinking that a disgruntled employee could leave a pirate CD in the bar and then call the inspectors and pocket a share of the 'Fine.'

 

You may as well ban the Hawkers from your premises. Let them do their thing outside.

 

I'd consider having a Lawyer available to come down at a moments notice. It'll cost you but the Officials are less likely to fuck around with your Lawyer present.

[Guest Fatboyfat]

I think Alan has given you good advice here, and they could well be back with a different agenda. Just reading between the lines re- your situation, ie employing Thai manager etc.and Visa enquiry; You in company with just about every "bar owner" must not be seen to be working without relevent work permit. The snatching back of PC equipment by yourself could well be seen as evidence of you "working", no matter how far-fetched it may seem to BMs.

[touristman 1]

Yep, you're definately a mark now............especially if the nice policeman didn't get the full pay-off he was expecting.

 

Time to get a lawyer friend, who doesn't mind you ringing him to come out when the police come a knocking again.

 

Upside is that if they keep getting no joy, and you are polite, then they'll probably leave you alone after a while of no success.

 

Good Luck.

[havefunme 3]

making a copy of a cd is not a crime unless you try and sell it i making back up copys to use so orignal will always be good

[Eneukman 1]

making a copy of a cd is not a crime unless you try and sell it i making back up copys to use so orignal will always be good

 

That's for personal use only isn't it?

 

I copied a large number of my old vinyl LP's onto CD before I moved over here, but I think it would be highly illegal to ask a bar to play any of them.

 

Alan

[SunnyValentine 173]

Sorry, been away and missed the thread while it was hot.

 

Here is some information about the music licensing thing:

 

The license that BM Kolobos posted is required, but not enough. In addition to that you need to have an agreement with the copyright holders of the music you play. This is basically the same as everywhere in the world.

 

The tricky part is that Thailand (unlike practically all western and the majority of other 3rd world countries) does not have a head organisation (like BMI, ASCAP, GEMA, BUMA/STEMRA, and whatever they are called). The rights are with the individual copyrights owners. There is one Company in Thailand Phonorights Inc. (www.1stopmusic.com) that deals with most western music, then there are two major Thai Companies, RS Promotion and Grammy/PLC, both of them sell individual licenses for the music they control.

It is a myth that farang owned bars cannot play Thai music, they have to apply for a deal with Grammy and/or RS as everyone else. These licenses are not cheap though.

The best way for all bars catering to foreigners in my eyes is to contact Phonorights. See their Website for Contact Details. They speak reasonable English. Apply for a license with them. Do not, I repaet, DO NOT use any of the self-apointed Agents that offer deals with Phonorights! They are probably all scam artists!

The streaming music license is a speciality of Thai Copyright law. It is forbidden here to copy music, so apart from obtaining a license to play from official CDs you also have to apply for a license extension to cover playing music from the PC.

 

Thet are easy to deal with. I suggest you complain about the rude behavior of their agents, maybe you find out these agents have nothing to do with the company at all.

You can download a brochure with more details at their homepage.

Yearly costs for a medium sized bar including computer should be around 5000 Bt, a steal comapred to what I paid back in Austria.

 

PS: I am a music publisher myself, so I know a bit about this topic.

 

Sunny

[MrMango 667]

making a copy of a cd is not a crime unless you try and sell it i making back up copys to use so orignal will always be good

It depends what Country you are in. In the U.S. you have the "Fair Use" doctrine, which lets you make copies for non- commercial use.

 

Ironically, it was Sony who pushed for this with their Beta max.

[chris_heaton 4]

I have now paid for the license from 1stop, but so far it has not arrived yet. It cost 6,000 baht without the PC extension. Will need to look into that as i did not see it on their web page.

 

Also could anyone tell me where to get the license that was pictured above and why on earth do you need photographs?

 

Chris

[upena 2]

And you have real police moonlighting as copyright police extorting money

 

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_10_03_50_2.htm

[SunnyValentine 173]

And you have real police moonlighting as copyright police extorting money

 

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_10_03_50_2.htm

 

These guys came to my bar Lennie's a few days later. Turned out they were not authorized by Phonorights at all, just out for a quick buck. I must have posted the incident here somewhere.

 

Chris Heaton, you must ask Phonorights for the Computer (streaming) license. It did cost 2000 Bt more in my ase. And you should receive the license within 2 or 3 weeks.

 

 

Sunny

[chris_heaton 4]

Sorry to raise this old thread again but I trotted off to City Hall to get my 2nd license. They told me that as long as I had the music license from Bangkok I did not need any other license except my normal Alcohol and 2 cigarette sales licenses.

 

They seemed to know what they were talking about but I do not want to wait till I get another visit to find out they were wrong. My solicitor now even says I need only the one license for music!

 

Can someone in the business please either confirm or deny it.

Thanks

Chris

[davethailand 91]

I think you need one music license, the other one is the one where you pay the cash in and they send it to you, MCOT or something like that, they came in the blues factory on friday (the real ones) and started try ing to get cash, my manager called my lawyer and a police friend and (i kid you not) he told them to get out of the bar, we had a call from my lawyer and the police to say that the boss of the collectors had been told by the chief to issue us with a sticker which apparently means that we are clear and to leave us alone.

I found this hard to believe but it has been confirmed to me by soi 9 and the MCOT office so we'll see.

We very rarely play CD's in the bar anyway and I don't keep a pc for playing music.

 

If I were you i'd separate your music playing and web browsing etc pc's completely.