Property market........Condo's.

[Mirkwood 342]

What's everybodys feelings on buying condo's at the moment?

 

 

My mates just bought 2 in a new complex in Naklua.

Obviously as usual the top floor sold to a company but he managed to secure the last 2 on the 6th floor. (7 story building).

 

 

He lives in Pattaya so I'd think he's got a handle on how the markets are etc.

 

I'm just a little surprised he's bought now as elections coming and all you hear is doom and gloom in the property market.

 

 

Anyone got their ear to the ground and know something I don't?

 

I keep hearing that new laws will maybe let falang own 1 house. I can't see that making a lot of difference to the condo market.

 

 

All the ones we looked at last trip (September).

 

Is it thriving?

Edited December 4, 2007 by Mirkwood

[js007 795]

I don't know, but people here in the USA are worried about a collapse of the banking system and a deflation of the world-wide property bubble. There's a real credit crunch and the big banks may be insolvent, or close to it. Real estate prices are already tanking in the USA and, from what I understand, also in England and Spain. I suppose things could get bad in Asia, despite what everyone thinks.

 

J

[ajsp9 18]

Good thread, perfect timing Mirkwood as I'm looking at condo's in View Talay 5 'D'. Will watch this thread with great interest. Having said that the elections in 3 weeks may be crucial and only after that will we then know what direction that the country intends going in

[Eneukman 1]

After having rented for 2 1/2 years, I'm now thinking of buying a condo. I'm in no hurry and can wait for a year if necessary.

 

Alan

[Gary 4,147]

Older second hand condos that can be owned freehold by a farang have nearly doubled in price the past four years. This was probably driven by new projects and whether they would ever be completed as well as the astronomical prices per square meter. I guess you can listen to the doom and gloom crowd and watch the prices continue to go up or buy what you can afford now. What prices do in the future made me no difference because I didn't buy mine to sell. I bought it for the security of having a place to live. You can still buy a decent condo for around 35.000 baht per square meter. I doubt you can buy pre-construction for less than 90,000 baht per square meter. I would NEVER recommend that anyone buy pre-construction.

 

As far as being able to own a house, whoever is spreading that rumor is plain full of shit or has ulterior motives.

[lostinpattaya 0]

What's everybodys feelings on buying condo's at the moment?

 

Is it thriving?

No it is definitely not thriving. VT6 in Pattaya is leading to an oversupply of units.you can buy units in VT6 for the same price that they were off the plan a year ago. Two thirds of the units in VT3 Building B are still unsold .VT7 has legal problems.VT5 prices are soft. Prices for units in VT1 and VT2 are lower than 6 months ago.

I know of one unit in VT3 which sold for 50000B per sqm 2 years ago and then resold for 57000Bpersqm 1 year ago and just recently was resold at 46000Bpersqm.

VT will not dump the unsold units on the market nor will they lower their prices.So you will not see any sharp decline in prices.But with such a large oversupply prices will most likely stay stagnant for the foreseeable future.

[Eneukman 1]

No it is definitely not thriving. VT6 in Pattaya is leading to an oversupply of units.you can buy units in VT6 for the same price that they were off the plan a year ago. Two thirds of the units in VT3 Building B are still unsold .VT7 has legal problems.VT5 prices are soft. Prices for units in VT1 and VT2 are lower than 6 months ago.

I know of one unit in VT3 which sold for 50000B per sqm 2 years ago and then resold for 57000Bpersqm 1 year ago and just recently was resold at 46000Bpersqm.

VT will not dump the unsold units on the market nor will they lower their prices.So you will not see any sharp decline in prices.But with such a large oversupply prices will most likely stay stagnant for the foreseeable future.

 

That's useful to know.

 

I may go in and have a chat with my landlord (he's a director of Northern Thai Realty) and see what they have available.

 

Alan

[Gary 4,147]

Here are some Bangkok prices per square meter. Makes Pattaya/Jomtien look like a bargain;

 

from Raimon Land report (Nov 30th 07) on Bangkok premium condo (current prices psm----B200K per sq meter seems to be the top-of-the-top end):

 

SATHORN

Sukhothai (197 units) B200K +

The Met (370 units) B130K-B164K

The Infinity (108 units) B122K-B142K

 

CENTRAL LUMPINI

185 Rajadamri (250 units) B200K+

Baan Rajadamri B170K

Park Chidlom (219 units) B131K-B135K

Athenee (219 units) B125K-140K

 

SUKHUMVIT

Millennium (302 units) B105K-B145K

The Lakes (165 units) B110K

Madison (151 units) B95K-B110K

 

RIVERSIDE

The River (phase 1)(512 units) B90K-B210K

[redwood13 56]

"The Urban" is a new condo on Soi 15 - 2nd Road near the Mercure Hotel with a sales office and models. Prices are in the low to mid 50,000 baht/m. range. A friend has placed a deposit on a unit after having done an extensive survey of possible purchases in the Pattaya/Jomtien area.

 

http://www.theurbanpattaya.com/

 

-redwood

[Gary 4,147]

Where's the parking places? Did they forget them?

[ebroguy 0]

I don't know, but people here in the USA are worried about a collapse of the banking system and a deflation of the world-wide property bubble. There's a real credit crunch and the big banks may be insolvent, or close to it. Real estate prices are already tanking in the USA and, from what I understand, also in England and Spain. I suppose things could get bad in Asia, despite what everyone thinks.

 

J

 

In Spain property prices are only falling in the south and around the Exspensive areas of Barcelona where there has for many years been an overbuild of over priced Villas and apartments , property prices in Rural areas are still on the increase and rose by a steady 6-7 % this year .

 

As for buying property in Pattaya , well I have just bought a 2 bed house and a 50 % share in a Condo in Jomtiem and I am already looking at investing more money in the near future ! I think a good sign has to be the amount of Russians flooding the area with bag fulls of money to buy properties .

[Gary 4,147]

As for buying property in Pattaya , well I have just bought a 2 bed house and a 50 % share in a Condo in Jomtiem and I am already looking at investing more money in the near future ! I think a good sign has to be the amount of Russians flooding the area with bag fulls of money to buy properties .

 

You bought a house? I hope you did your homework because a farang can't own property in Thailand. You either had to put it in your wife's name or you are using a bogus company. You CAN own a condo.

[Owen` 2]

All prices have three directions. Which of the three occurs tends to be equally probable on a real basis, i.e., inflation adjusted.

 

I don't understand the thinking, Eneukman. If you have been a renter for two years, what leads you to want to buy now? Or a year from now? What is inadequate about renting?

Edited December 6, 2007 by Owen`

[aqua4 2]

I guess you can listen to the doom and gloom crowd and watch the prices continue to go up or buy what you can afford now.

 

You might recall that the draft version of the new FBA (Foreign Business Act) was not passed by the National Legislative Assembly in August. The legislation was returned to the Ministry of Commerce, to make it even stricter.

 

The meaning of Foreign Company will be expanded so that not only the equity but also the voting rights of the company shall be used in determining whether a company is foreign, but also the overall authority to control the company will also be considered.

 

The flip side being that companies otherwise in violation of the Act, but doing business as Thai companies for greater than 10 years may be exempted from the new Act.

[js007 795]

You might recall that the draft version of the new FBA (Foreign Business Act) was not passed by the National Legislative Assembly in August. The legislation was returned to the Ministry of Commerce, to make it even stricter.

 

The meaning of Foreign Company will be expanded so that not only the equity but also the voting rights of the company shall be used in determining whether a company is foreign, but also the overall authority to control the company will also be considered.

 

The flip side being that companies otherwise in violation of the Act, but doing business as Thai companies for greater than 10 years may be exempted from the new Act.

 

Translation? If the even stricter version goes through, will they be cracking down on falangs that own houses through bogus companies?

 

J

Edited December 7, 2007 by js007

[Gary 4,147]

I think that's a reasonable assumption. Like most everyone else I would have rather had a house than a condo. I did my homework years ago and even then it was clearly against the law to have a bogus company for the purpose of owning or controlling land.

 

YES, I know there are thousands of these bogus companies owned by farangs and what will happen is anyone's guess. Better them than me. I like sleeping peacefully at night.

[js007 795]

I think that's a reasonable assumption. Like most everyone else I would have rather had a house than a condo. I did my homework years ago and even then it was clearly against the law to have a bogus company for the purpose of owning or controlling land.

 

YES, I know there are thousands of these bogus companies owned by farangs and what will happen is anyone's guess. Better them than me. I like sleeping peacefully at night.

 

If I could find the right deal, I might consider a 30 year lease. Lease the land and have the house built. Every once in a while I read about some guy that managed to build a brand new house somewhere for cheap. Say 1,000,000 baht or so. So if the land lease was reasonable, you'd be set.

 

J

[aqua4 2]

Translation? If the even stricter version goes through, will they be cracking down on falangs that own houses through bogus companies?

 

J

 

 

Your guess would be as good as mine!

 

 

Foreigners are generally not allowed to own land in Thailand, even though the Land Code, since it was first promulgated in 1954, has provided that foreigners may own up to one Rai (1,600 square meters) of land for private residence, but only upon being granted approval by the Minister of the Ministry of Interior. This approval has practically never been given.

 

 

So these would be the options:

 

 

1. Through a Thai Limited Company The FBA is still in the pipeline and will surface under the new government.

 

A foreigner may own a land in the name of a Thai company provided that majority of the shares are Thai owned (at least 51% of shares are Thai and 49% are foreign). A foreigner is allowed to have effective management and control of this company and therefore, has a secure freehold ownership over the land.

 

 

2. Investment (BOI)

 

A foreigner, who invests 40 million Baht for no less than 5 years, is entitled to buy up to one rai (1,600 square meters) of land for residential purposes. Permission from the Ministry of Interior must be obtained.

 

3. By marriage to a Thai

 

In 1999, Thai property law, concerning a Thai whose spouse is foreign, has been amended for a favor of a Thai with a foreign spouse. Such couple may now legally own a land in Thailand. Nevertheless, the land must be registered under a name of a Thai. Also, a foreign spouse must sign a declaration stating that the funds using to buy a land is of a Thai spouse, so that he/she waives his/her right to the ownership of land.

 

4. Lease

 

Leasing is another option for a foreigner to acquire land. The maximum duration of a lease under Thai property law is 30 years, with a possibility to renew again (for another 30 years) if agreed. This is the least complicated option for a foreigner to have a right of usage of land. The land lease over 3 years must be registered at the Land Department.

 

5. Structure Ownership

 

A company or the Thai spouse of a foreigner may grant a Right of Superficies in favor of the foreigner, giving him the right to personally own all constructions situated on the land. By using this possibility, a foreign individual can be registered as the owner of a house without owning the land. The Right of Superficies can be conceded for a period of 30 years and can be renewed for another 30 years (but not automatically).

 

NOTE: Before buying land, an essential step to the process is to conduct a “Title Search”.

[touristman 1]

I can't remember fully, but didn't the Thailand Privilege Card (lol ) offer limited rai for ownership to farang.........or was discussing such a scheme?

[Gary 4,147]

Your guess would be as good as mine!

Foreigners are generally not allowed to own land in Thailand, even though the Land Code, since it was first promulgated in 1954, has provided that foreigners may own up to one Rai (1,600 square meters) of land for private residence, but only upon being granted approval by the Minister of the Ministry of Interior. This approval has practically never been given.

So these would be the options:

1. Through a Thai Limited Company The FBA is still in the pipeline and will surface under the new government.

 

A foreigner may own a land in the name of a Thai company provided that majority of the shares are Thai owned (at least 51% of shares are Thai and 49% are foreign). A foreigner is allowed to have effective management and control of this company and therefore, has a secure freehold ownership over the land.

2. Investment (BOI)

 

A foreigner, who invests 40 million Baht for no less than 5 years, is entitled to buy up to one rai (1,600 square meters) of land for residential purposes. Permission from the Ministry of Interior must be obtained.

 

3. By marriage to a Thai

 

In 1999, Thai property law, concerning a Thai whose spouse is foreign, has been amended for a favor of a Thai with a foreign spouse. Such couple may now legally own a land in Thailand. Nevertheless, the land must be registered under a name of a Thai. Also, a foreign spouse must sign a declaration stating that the funds using to buy a land is of a Thai spouse, so that he/she waives his/her right to the ownership of land.

 

4. Lease

 

Leasing is another option for a foreigner to acquire land. The maximum duration of a lease under Thai property law is 30 years, with a possibility to renew again (for another 30 years) if agreed. This is the least complicated option for a foreigner to have a right of usage of land. The land lease over 3 years must be registered at the Land Department.

 

5. Structure Ownership

 

A company or the Thai spouse of a foreigner may grant a Right of Superficies in favor of the foreigner, giving him the right to personally own all constructions situated on the land. By using this possibility, a foreign individual can be registered as the owner of a house without owning the land. The Right of Superficies can be conceded for a period of 30 years and can be renewed for another 30 years (but not automatically).

 

NOTE: Before buying land, an essential step to the process is to conduct a “Title Search”.

 

The above undoubtedly came from a slippery lawyer or real estate company. The Thai stock holders MUST have a financial investment in the property. Would you want stockholders holding 51 percent of your property. Secure free hold? More bullshit. Nominee shareholders who have already signed off their shares to you are specifically illegal.

 

A 30 year lease renewable for another 30 plus another 30 is certainly possible. The contract will state that. Unfortunately the land office will ONLY recognize 30 years, period. The lease is the safest way to have your own home. Just be aware that if you happen to live more than 30 years it's good bye property.

 

The best policy is to spend only what you can afford to walk away from. They did get putting the property in your wife's name correct. You MUST sign a document saying that you have no claim on the property and that it is hers to do with as she pleases.

 

Remember that lawyers are here to please you and to get paid. They will write any contract you want. Having a contract doesn't mean it is legal. TIT

[aqua4 2]

The Thai stock holders MUST have a financial investment in the property.

 

Where does it state that?

 

I would think that most foreign owned businesses in Thailand are owned on a 49/51% bases. Not just the shelf companies owning houses but actual businesses. This being the reason why the British Chamber of Business objected to the drafting of the new FBA.

 

They objected on 3 issues:

 

1. In its WTO commitments, Thailand guaranteed equal national treatment of businesses of WTO member countries, provided foreign equity investment was limited to 49%. There was no mention of voting rights or management control. The present proposals breach Thailand’s WTO commitments.

 

2. Many foreign companies in Thailand have adopted a corporate structure whereby the foreign minority shareholders are given effective control, by creating two classes of shares with differential voting rights. Such structures are legal and have been accepted for registration by the Ministry of Commerce for many years. The present proposals will change the law and make these structures illegal.

 

3. Malaysia, Vietnam, China and India, are all competing to attract foreign investment by creating corporate structures and taxation incentives that are better, or at least as attractive, as their competitors. It thus seems rather strange that by approving a narrowing of the definition, and not considering further de-regulation, Thailand is going in the opposite direction, and presenting to the world an image of a protectionist and inward looking economy.

 

 

A 30 year lease renewable for another 30 plus another 30 is certainly possible. The contract will state that. Unfortunately the land office will ONLY recognize 30 years, period. The lease is the safest way to have your own home. Just be aware that if you happen to live more than 30 years it's good bye property.

 

The land office will only recognize 30 years. That is correct. That is why there is a second contract to compel the signing of the next 30 year lease. That you can do in numerous ways to ensure the second 30 years lease either with an order to compel or a financial penalty for non performance.

 

Having a contract doesn't mean it is legal. TIT

 

A contract can only be legal. You cannot contract an illegal act.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

A contract can only be legal. You cannot contract an illegal act.

 

 

Well done! Joe would be proud to have picked up on that one.

[js007 795]

You cannot contract an illegal act? Sure you can. However, you'll likely find that the contract is unenforceable.

 

J

[aqua4 2]

You cannot contract an illegal act? Sure you can. However, you'll likely find that the contract is unenforceable.

 

J

 

 

Let me then rephrase it.

 

A binding contract can only be legal. You cannot have a binding contract for an illegal act.

[marleyboy 140]

Personally my advice would be, is if you are worried about losing money, then simply dont spend , more than what you would be prepared to lose! Or rather if you have any doubts at all about losing a fortune, then simply dont spend a fortune! A couple of years ago, I (I have a Thai wife) bought a new 2 bedroomed house in Soi Khaotalo. It cost less than a second hand B.M.W. would cost in the U.K.

I probably only use the house about 8 weeks maximum in each year. I also dont even bother renting it out, as I would probalby only get about 10,000 baht per month, so to me its not worth the hassle. This is rather a long post, but if anything happens at all and I lost the house, I wouldnt be bankrupt or destitute!