AirAsia orders 10 Airbus A350 aircraft

[bigdelta 46]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...20090616?rpc=44

[joekicker 53]

I'm curious what you cowboys think about Airbus and the vertical fin problem - or is it a problem at all? Seems to me, with all the speculation over the Brazil crash, added to all the previous stuff on the fin, that Airbus needs to address this forthrightly and rather quickly, or suffer a "Constellation of the 21st century" sort of conspiracy theory???

[bigdelta 46]

Or the De Havilland Comet-make those windows round.

It's an issue that needs to be addressed sooner than (fatally) later.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Or the De Havilland Comet-make those windows round.

It's an issue that needs to be addressed sooner than (fatally) later.

 

What's an issue, and why?

[wacmedia 277]

I'm curious what you cowboys think about Airbus and the vertical fin problem - or is it a problem at all? Seems to me, with all the speculation over the Brazil crash, added to all the previous stuff on the fin, that Airbus needs to address this forthrightly and rather quickly, or suffer a "Constellation of the 21st century" sort of conspiracy theory???

 

Hi,

 

The numbers don't back your case.

 

Airbus, Air France and the European Aviation Safety Agency have all voiced full confidence in the Airbus and dismissed all theories as speculation. Nearly 1,000 of the aircraft are flying and until flight 447 none had been responsible for the death of a passenger.

[joekicker 53]

The numbers don't back your case.

 

I didn't make a case. I probably could, either way, but have no reason or desire to do it. People who know much more than me are making the case very intelligently.

 

But numbers don't mean a thing, as the flu is proving. It's perception about the unknown - those TWO things will bring you down faster an an air-to-air missile. So my QUESTION is whether there is such a perception.

 

So, I'll put you in the "not a problem, who cares?" column. That's what I want, is a sense of what people think about it. If there's a debate here, fine. If not, fine.

 

I don't count Airbus as a vote. Airbus being confident about Airbus... a dog just bit a man. I'd sure sit up if Airbus said, "Hmmm, yeah, we're not too confident about our composite fins." Until that day, they don't get a vote. They get a SAY, because they're experts, but only a say because experts are frequently wrong, as the author of Why Buildings Fall Down noted so very well. Experts can make airplanes that fall down.

 

The question isn't whether they did make an Airbus that falls down. IRONY ALERT Experts will tell us that. Or simply time. I doubt anyone in here knows, but certainly not more than two.

 

The question *_is_* whether the public perceives Airbus made planes that might fall down, which is a far different question. Very VERY safe things like the DC10 aircraft become victims and die of public/corporate perception.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

The question *_is_* whether the public perceives Airbus made planes that might fall down, which is a far different question. Very VERY safe things like the DC10 aircraft become victims and die of public/corporate perception.

 

Joe,

 

Am I missing something? Is there an issue with the tailfins on Airbus aircraft, or something?

[Samsonite 181]

This may go back to an accident in New York shortly after 9/11 when an airbus aircraft encountered turbulence on takeoff. The pilot "over corrected" and the tail (vertical stabilizer) snapped off. All on-board died.

As a result of this most recent accident, the one last year off the coast of Spain (?), and the one at the airbus factory that completely destroyed a brand new A340, there has been some questions raised on the aviation web sites about airbus' approach to fly-by-wire, i.e., perhaps, they rely entirely too much on the computers.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Scalawag

[bigdelta 46]

This may go back to an accident in New York shortly after 9/11 when an airbus aircraft encountered turbulence on takeoff. The pilot "over corrected" and the tail (vertical stabilizer) snapped off. All on-board died.

As a result of this most recent accident, the one last year off the coast of Spain (?), and the one at the airbus factory that completely destroyed a brand new A340, there has been some questions raised on the aviation web sites about airbus' approach to fly-by-wire, i.e., perhaps, they rely entirely too much on the computers.

Yes,that's the incident.Also,the autopsies of the bodies on AF 447 have shown (so far) that the acft broke up in flight.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Yes,that's the incident.Also,the autopsies of the bodies on AF 447 have shown (so far) that the acft broke up in flight.

 

I'm aware of that, but what does it indicate about the tail fin? Is it meant to disintegrate, or what?

[joekicker 53]

Joe,

 

Am I missing something? Is there an issue with the tailfins on Airbus aircraft, or something? unsure

 

I don't know if it's an issue, really.

 

BUT as folks point out below, there are stories and a grazillion Internet forums about how they found the vertical stabiliser of the Air France jet and it's become a prime suspect in the reason for the crash, and then there was New York, etc.

 

Now, to me, that will all play out and the various airline boards will probably eventually decide what caused that Brazil flight to (it now seems) break apart and go down. But there's a bit of a popular tide that links New York and the Brazil planes, and brings up other cases traced to the fin.

 

Again, I'm not so determined to get to the bottom of the facts for the purposes of this thread, just wondering if people are sucking up this stuff and worrying.

 

I am ALSO damned interested in the true facts, but not in this thread.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

I don't know if it's an issue, really.

 

BUT as folks point out below, there are stories and a grazillion Internet forums about how they found the vertical stabiliser of the Air France jet and it's become a prime suspect in the reason for the crash, and then there was New York, etc.

 

Now, to me, that will all play out and the various airline boards will probably eventually decide what caused that Brazil flight to (it now seems) break apart and go down. But there's a bit of a popular tide that links New York and the Brazil planes, and brings up other cases traced to the fin.

 

Again, I'm not so determined to get to the bottom of the facts for the purposes of this thread, just wondering if people are sucking up this stuff and worrying.

 

I am ALSO damned interested in the true facts, but not in this thread.

 

They also found the tail fin of that Iranian Airbus that went down .......

Edited June 19, 2009 by CheshireTom

[joekicker 53]

They also found the tail fin of that Iranian Airbus that went down ....... unsure

 

Jeh.

 

Okay, another "not concerned about the fin".

 

This could be building into a trend.

[Samsonite 181]

After the New York accident it was discovered the "fin" was glued on, not bolted on. Afterwards, supposedly, a modification was made to all existing aircraft of that type, i.e., the fin was bolted to the fuselage.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

After the New York accident it was discovered the "fin" was glued on, not bolted on. Afterwards, supposedly, a modification was made to all existing aircraft of that type, i.e., the fin was bolted to the fuselage.

 

You're confusing Airbus with Airfix.

 

The NTSB's own pics quite clearly show the attachment points.

 

 

http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2001/AA587/tailcomp.htm

[joekicker 53]

Supposedly, the fact the equipment is made of composite material is a major cause of worry. Supposedly.

 

I'll reveal that my own personal feeling is that this is another Boeing-Airbus bore on a wider scale than Pat Pages, but I only get one vote like everyone else. And I have no hidden motives for all of this - I am actually curious about the perceptions - assuming there are any at all. My favourite jetliner to travel in is the one that gets me there the fastest, although some of those old under-powered Russian ones had me white-knuckling it sometimes, the Ilyushins most especially, and thank goodness you hardly get to fly those any more.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

My favourite jetliner to travel in is the one that gets me there the fastest, although some of those old under-powered Russian ones had me white-knuckling it sometimes, the Ilyushins most especially, and thank goodness you hardly get to fly those any more.

 

There's always One2Go, if you're still feeling brave.

[Samsonite 181]

...My favourite jetliner to travel in is the one that gets me there the fastest...

With all the innovations we have seen in jet airliners over the last 50+ years, we are now flying slower than we did then. The Boeing 707 had a cruising speed of 607 mph. The fastest airliners now cruise at around 585 mph.

I would prefer to fly faster, but the airlines prefer economy over speed.

[bigdelta 46]

After the New York accident it was discovered the "fin" was glued on, not bolted on. Afterwards, supposedly, a modification was made to all existing aircraft of that type, i.e., the fin was bolted to the fuselage.

Well since the fin basically detached in 1 piece on 447,I guess they used the wrong glue or the "new and improved" bolt system failed.

Pretty much confirmed by more autopsies that acft broke up in flight.