Tipping In Your Own Country

[captcraig2 120]

Im not married (yet) so I guess there is no need to reply to the rest of your flawed attack but I will, I work here and have done for the past 4yrs (just entered my 5th yr with the same company), Iam on a reasonable expat salary package that affords me to live a reasonable lifestyle.

 

for a taster,

 

Accommodation allowance = Bt,25,000 per month.

Vehicle allowance = Bt.20,000 per month.

health insurance = Full government allowance + full Bupa coverage.

 

actual salary on top of the above = A tidy sum that is equal to a healthy wage in farang land (Australia)

 

might also mention 5 weeks annual leave, 30 paid sick days per year, 8 paid personal days per year, mobile phone expense paid, annual bonus of a minimum 3 months salary, paid yearly trip home (for me and the missus) yada yada yada............

 

 

 

yep my life sucks and Im a cheap cunt without two coins to rub together......... get yourself clue before you attack people in the future.

 

So.....Why a 5 baht tip then? makes you look kind of foolish!

[Fondles 94]

So.....Why a 5 baht tip then? makes you look kind of foolish!

 

The only foolish one here is the retard that cannot read............. I DON'T TIP, PERIOD, would you like me to quote my previous post, it seems you are just to dumb to comprehend.

[Sailfast 503]

And for the record, it's not just wait staff we are talking about here. Car parking valet, doorman, casino dealers, butlers, bartenders, bar backs, limo drivers, etc., may fall under the "tipped employee" special rules for minimum wage. Yes, in some cases they may be paid more, but not always.

 

In some casinos the house may actually keep the dealers tips until the amount becomes greater than the casino pays it's dealers. Then the dealers keep the difference. Granted these dealers may be paid well over the minimum wage.

 

And for the record, I would much rather be a waiter, bartender or casino dealer keeping my own tips than being paid a flat rate. I know, I've been there.

[MeGoDanceNow 4,281]

I am an American, and live in New York City, where entire industries can and do revolve around the expectation of gratuity. I find it...

 

 

Ajicey, very illuminating discussion. Thanks for the post.

[Bazle 1,501]

I hate the American system and think it is fundamentally wrong. People should be paid a fair wage for a fair days work. Tips should be recognized as a bonus received for exemplary service, not part of making a basic living. If someone is paid half the minimum wage then the whole concept of a minimum wage is a joke. Clearly the minimum wage is not the minimum wage.

 

Precisely.

 

The other thing about tipping that gets me is that so often (I guess to wait staff in particular) the tip is related to the cost of the service provided. So if a waiter is working in a restaurant serving expensive food and doesn't do a very good job and merits only a 5% tip, he could still end up getting more than a waiter doing an exemplary job in a lower priced restaurant with a 10% tip. What he gets tipped is only partly related to how well HE performs; it is also related to how well the management, chef and others perform.

[MeGoDanceNow 4,281]

Precisely.

 

The other thing about tipping that gets me is that so often (I guess to wait staff in particular) the tip is related to the cost of the service provided. So if a waiter is working in a restaurant serving expensive food and doesn't do a very good job and merits only a 5% tip, he could still end up getting more than a waiter doing an exemplary job in a lower priced restaurant with a 10% tip. What he gets tipped is only partly related to how well HE performs; it is also related to how well the management, chef and others perform.

 

 

With the result that the most talented wait staff end up in the best restaurants. Which is no bad thing.

[captcraig2 120]

The only foolish one here is the retard that cannot read............. I DON'T TIP, PERIOD, would you like me to quote my previous post, it seems you are just to dumb to comprehend.

 

 

You are correct...Your lady is a step above you!

 

 

Shows how lucky she is!

Edited January 25, 2011 by captcraig2

[teelack 9,650]

i invariably tip in restaurants, and always the maid at the end of the trip. The ones who often don't get anything are taxi drivers here at home. If i have to give directions to get to my place, or whereever, then no way will they get any form of tip.

 

IMHO its a waste of time tipping at the END of a trip. Do it at the start to ensure better service while you are there.

[PattayaPete 530]

You don't get out to Thailand much, Pete. Any hotel that isn't a xhithole has to pay VAT, which is currently 7 per cent. About 99% of hotels that pay VAT add a 10 per cent service charge which, as you note, does not go to staff. They also pay a 1 per cent provincial tax. Because there is tax and service, it is referred to as ++. The service and taxes are paid anywhere inside the hotel including restaurants.

 

I think a lot of the anti-tippers here are tipping the hotel owners generously and not even aware of it, although pretty well every establishment charging ++ does itemise the bill, if only in the small print. But an 800 baht hotel lunch buffet will NOT cost 800 baht - it will cost at least 950 baht - because your "service charge" will be figured last, and be on top of VAT and taxes.

 

Restaurants that aren't xhitholes have to do the above also.

 

I think as I live here and run a restaurant my understanding maybe a bit better than yours Joe.

 

Yes we have to pay VAT and taxes. As you rightly say 7% vat and normal company tax. However we do not add this to a customer's bill or deduct the amounts from the menu price list and put a little ++ at the bottom of the page. Like all responsible, honest businesses we calculate our prices knowing that we will have to pay VAT and tax. Our price on the Menu is what the customer pays. We take care of the tax.

 

The first + in your "not shit hole establishment" is the vat, the second + is the service charge, which is not a tax but money collected for the service you receive or in other words a mandatory tip. As most of these place then keep the service charge as part of their general profit they are ripping you and their staff off.

 

The reason they do it this way is that it makes their prices look less than they are. It's a marketing decision and nothing to do with the fact that all retail businesses in Thailand pay VAT.

[stevoman 2]

No.

 

 

 

 

 

You don't get out to Thailand much, Pete.

 

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That must rank by far the stupidest comment you have EVER made, and that's saying a lot! :clueless No doubt you'll try to spin it as a "Joke"!

Edited January 26, 2011 by stevoman

[Bush Pig 11]

As tipping validates the Master-Slave relationship I make a habit of it but keep the stipend to a minimum to gain the maximum emphasis.

[BigDUSA 71]

IMHO its a waste of time tipping at the END of a trip. Do it at the start to ensure better service while you are there.

 

Excellent point!!

[MM 6,562]

I think as I live here and run a restaurant my understanding maybe a bit better than yours Joe.

 

Yes we have to pay VAT and taxes. As you rightly say 7% vat and normal company tax. However we do not add this to a customer's bill or deduct the amounts from the menu price list and put a little ++ at the bottom of the page. Like all responsible, honest businesses we calculate our prices knowing that we will have to pay VAT and tax. Our price on the Menu is what the customer pays. We take care of the tax.

 

The first + in your "not shit hole establishment" is the vat, the second + is the service charge, which is not a tax but money collected for the service you receive or in other words a mandatory tip. As most of these place then keep the service charge as part of their general profit they are ripping you and their staff off.

 

The reason they do it this way is that it makes their prices look less than they are. It's a marketing decision and nothing to do with the fact that all retail businesses in Thailand pay VAT.

 

I was at the Home Run Bar & Grill in BKK, owned by a fellow BM, and noticed that the bill had VAT + Service Charge added. I inquired of the manager (another BM), if the service charge went to the staff, and he explained it did, but in a rather convoluted allotment scheme. Still, I was satisfied that the establishment was not keeping the service charge as a hidden price increase.

 

I wonder how many other businesses to that?

[mike_asia 1]

I was at the Home Run Bar & Grill in BKK, owned by a fellow BM, and noticed that the bill had VAT + Service Charge added. I inquired of the manager (another BM), if the service charge went to the staff, and he explained it did, but in a rather convoluted allotment scheme. Still, I was satisfied that the establishment was not keeping the service charge as a hidden price increase.

 

I wonder how many other businesses to that?

 

i doubt many give the service charge to the staff. This whole ++ thing is more common in Bangkok than it is in Pattaya.

[joekicker 53]

No doubt you'll try to spin it as a "Joke"!

 

No doubt you'll never make it as a mind reader. Why would it be a joke?

 

i doubt many give the service charge to the staff. This whole ++ thing is more common in Bangkok than it is in Pattaya.

 

The whole ++ thing is EXTREMELY common everywhere outside Pattaya. Which is why my "don't get to Thailand much" was a serious comment.

 

Pete, I believe that you don't list the ++ that you have added. I actually like that, personally, but most places in Thailand itemise what the customer is paying including the self-described "service charge". But let's not dissemble. Your customers pay the 7% VAT, and all other taxes -- not you. All. What you mean is that you include them, then round them up so there's no silly "32 satang" addition, and then you don't list them. I'm fine with that, but many people DO want to know what extras a place is tacking on.

 

And my point was that in Thailand, most tourist-oriented places do that.

 

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Edited January 26, 2011 by joekicker

[Bazle 1,501]

Your customers pay the 7% VAT, and all other taxes -- not you. All. What you mean is that you include them, then round them up so there's no silly "32 satang" addition, and then you don't list them. I'm fine with that, but many people DO want to know what extras a place is tacking on.

Why would they want to know? It's like adding on something for rent because my table is taking up floor-space.

[joekicker 53]

Why would they want to know? It's like adding on something for rent because my table is taking up floor-space.

 

Some people like to know the details of the cost of what they buy. For them, it's like adding on something for tinted windshields and a supercharged engine, which actually boosts the cost of the pickup from its basic price listed on the ridiculous, lying windscreen sticker. Some people like to know that their 110-baht sandwich is actually a 100-baht sandwich with 9 baht added for taxes, and then rounded up to the benefit of the seller. Some people like to know the seller is tacking on .875 baht for every sandwich sold. If he's selling a lot of sandwiches, he's putting a bunch of baht in his pocket.

 

You can call them names including anal, but they like to know anyhow, it's just the way they are. Some of them say they have the RIGHT to know the seller is doing this. They are loud, often obnoxious, and most merchants would rather simply tell them than not tell them. And indeed - why NOT tell you what extras you're paying for? It's your money being handed over. Why would you demand NOT to know? The merchant knows - he has to tell the taxman and his accountant. It's no actual problem for him to tell you. So most merchants just sigh and tell everyone. And of course some merchants "help" you by giving you "convenient" bills with one number so a child can understand them. But the merchant, he has to sort it out anyhow, then or later -- for him it's not simple.

 

It's pretty much the same worldwide. I think MOST tourist-oriented or "high class" places give you a breakdown of the cost of goods, service and tax. I know in London they do.

 

I wonder how many other businesses to that?

 

Really! This comes up at Labour Court and other places from time to time. The regulations say they HAVE to give it to the staff. There are cynical people who doubt that all the businesses follow the regulations.

 

It's generally considered a safe speculation that if a business demands a 10 per cent service charge, the business is keeping that money. Some claim to give it back on staff parties and prettying up the staff cloak rooms. And of course, some actually, really, give it to them. But generally, smart money is on the "they keep it" side..

Edited January 26, 2011 by joekicker

[Bazle 1,501]

I think MOST tourist-oriented or "high class" places give you a breakdown of the cost of goods, service and tax. I know in London they do.

It is the law in the UK that prices are displayed inclusive of VAT.

[joekicker 53]

It is the law in the UK that prices are displayed inclusive of VAT.

 

Yes? And?

 

We're discussing whether you itemise that on the bill -- and not only VAT but other taxes and "service" and so on. Which Pete says he doesn't do, and which you wondered why anyone would want to see it. In most places, worldwide, they do itemise it on the bill, including the UK -- but of course there are lots of Petes, and not every hotel/restaurant/shop/whatever fully itemises.

 

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[Bazle 1,501]

Yes? And?

 

We're discussing whether you itemise that on the bill -- and not only VAT but other taxes and "service" and so on. Which Pete says he doesn't do, and which you wondered why anyone would want to see it. In most places, worldwide, they do itemise it on the bill, including the UK -- but of course there are lots of Petes, and not every hotel/restaurant/shop/whatever fully itemises.

My point is that people want to know the total cost, not the breakdown. That is why the price has to be displayed inclusive of VAT.

 

Some places do add on a service charge. I wish this were added to the price just as VAT is. However, often the amount is a "recommended" amount and is still discretionary.

[joekicker 53]

My point is that people want to know the total cost, not the breakdown. That is why the price has to be displayed inclusive of VAT.

 

It seems we're not discusing the same thing. This all started out on whether a bill should be itemised as this London bill is itemised. You wondered why people would want that. I tried to explain what I think about why some people want a bill like this:

 

 

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[Bazle 1,501]

It seems we're not discusing the same thing. This all started out on whether a bill should be itemised as this London bill is itemised. You wondered why people would want that. I tried to explain what I think about why some people want a bill like this:

 

That is the final receipt that you get - essential for businesses which are VAT registered.

 

However, the menu would have told you that Egg Benedict was £25 and the Continental Breakfast £19.50. People want to know how much a seller is wanting to sell something for, not how he has arrived at that amount.

[joekicker 53]

However, the menu would have told you that Egg Benedict was £25 and the Continental Breakfast £19.50. People want to know how much a seller is wanting to sell something for, not how he has arrived at that amount.

 

This is sometimes true. (Sometimes not.) But my point was that some establishments give you an itemised bill like the London restaurant. Pete's point was that he does NOT give an itemised bill. He sells you a sandwich for 110 baht (say) and that 110 baht is all that shows on the bill. It is a "bottom line" price -- NOT like the menu in London, but like the very bottom line of the London bill. The difference is that in that London shop, they tell you what you are ponying up for VAT and service, and Pete doesn't break it down he just says "sandwich, tax and service included".

 

On the London menu, the Bendict was 25 pounds PLUS tax and service. In Pete's place, the sandwich is 110 baht INCLUDING taxes (plural) and service. You may be right that "people want" Pete's bill. But in most places in this world, they get a bill like the London one. I don't care either way, although I suspect most people want the detailed one.

 

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[Bazle 1,501]

On the London menu, the Bendict was 25 pounds PLUS tax and service. I

No, that is not so. The Egg Benedict was £25 plus service but INCLUDING VAT. The VAT element is split out only in the final receipt, not on the menu.

[joekicker 53]

No, that is not so. The Egg Benedict was £25 plus service but INCLUDING VAT. The VAT element is split out only in the final receipt, not on the menu.

 

If that's correct, then I'd not be happy with either the menu OR the bill. That's a ridiculous way to do it (to my thinking). Either everything is in (like Pete) or nothing is in and it's all itemised at the end (as in most of non-Pete Thailand, actually) as in:

 

sausage 100 baht

VAT 7 per cent 7 baht

tax 1 per cent 1.07 baht

service 10 per cent 10.7 baht

 

Total: 119.4 baht

 

That's an illustration, not a tax receipt or mathematical model, but that's how it's normally done in Thai ++ places.

 

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