Tipping In Your Own Country

[jacko 8,822]

I was at the Home Run Bar & Grill in BKK, owned by a fellow BM, and noticed that the bill had VAT + Service Charge added. I inquired of the manager (another BM), if the service charge went to the staff, and he explained it did, but in a rather convoluted allotment scheme. Still, I was satisfied that the establishment was not keeping the service charge as a hidden price increase.

 

I wonder how many other businesses to that?

Certainly all businesses will have to pay their staff, they can claim a ++ goes to them.

 

Perhaps the only way to be sure would to be to ask staff if they received a separate payment that seemed to vary each month.

Few businesses are also without the obligatory jar for money that goes to the lucky gal called Tip.

Nor do I see many signs claiming that since therre is a service charge added to the bill, tipping is not accepted.

[jacko 8,822]

Some people like to know the details of the cost of what they buy. For them, it's like adding on something for tinted windshields and a supercharged engine,

And pray, what did the + and the ++ add to the plate of fries and a burger I just consumed, other than not hearing 'hey farang, come get it yerself?'

[jacko 8,822]

It is the law in the UK that prices are displayed inclusive of VAT.

Yes, I like it that way. The menu shows the inclusive price without hidden extras.

If the printed bill decides to break out the taxes, fine, but I don't care, as I have little option, and the biggest number is what I will be paying.

[jacko 8,822]

That is the final receipt that you get - essential for businesses which are VAT registered.

 

However, the menu would have told you that Egg Benedict was £25 and the Continental Breakfast £19.50. People want to know how much a seller is wanting to sell something for, not how he has arrived at that amount.

If you take a look that is on the bill too, inclusive of VAT, non-inclusive of service charge.

£19.50 for a bloody crousant and a coffee, and then they insult you by asking for 12% more (£2.40) for some spotty Eastern European on £20/pw to bring it to you!

[joekicker 53]

Yes, I like it that way. The menu shows the inclusive price without hidden extras.

 

And in the very next post, you note that it shows no such thing. Which I would gripe at - that it CLAIMED to be inclusive, but then did not deliver on the claim.

 

You can have "all in" like Pete says he does. You can have itemised ++ as many do it. But that London receipt looks the worst of all the possibilities to me. You think it's inclusive - and then "oh, didn't we mention you have to pay an additional charge or we'll call the police? Sorry."

 

THAT system is horrible. To be clear, which apparently is necessary, I'm not laying this on England, I just happened to have that photo nearby. It's seen everywhere, including Thailand for sure. I think it sucks.

 

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[jacko 8,822]

And in the very next post, you note that it shows no such thing. Which I would gripe at - that it CLAIMED to be inclusive, but then did not deliver on the claim.

 

You can have "all in" like Pete says he does. You can have itemised ++ as many do it. But that London receipt looks the worst of all the possibilities to me. You think it's inclusive - and then "oh, didn't we mention you have to pay an additional charge or we'll call the police? Sorry."

 

THAT system is horrible. To be clear, which apparently is necessary, I'm not laying this on England, I just happened to have that photo nearby. It's seen everywhere, including Thailand for sure. I think it sucks.

 

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Well I didn't really mean that particular bill, I would always prefer to know what it will cost me end-of.

 

I would like to hope the breakfast menu at the Milestone Hotel mentioned that 12% service charge would be added, despite...

 

Condé Nast Traveler have honoured five Red Carnation Hotel Collection properties as “the best places in the world to stay”. The Milestone Hotel,

 

Class or not, hidden extras on the bill are tacky, but London is liklely rip-off central! A room at that place will be £300, oops, wrong £60 more for HM Revenue and Customs.

[PattayaPete 530]

Joe you are struggling with this one. Who told you most people want a bill with itemized tax and service. If that were true then all the other businesses around would do that as well. The butcher, the baker the candle stick maker, the supermarket the book store, the go go bar even little Noi's Som Tum stall on Soi Joesadreamer.

 

Restaurants and hotels are not a special category as far as billing and tax goes. They are under the same law as every other business. They are not providing a service by doing this but duping their customers into believing that prices are cheaper than they really are. The reason some hotels and restaurants do it is they see tourists as easy marks who won't complain

 

I have the ultimate bill for you here Joe. This is the logical extension of your argument . . . .

 

The Menu

 

Eggs Benedict Free

Orange Juice Free

++++++++++++++++++

 

 

The Bill

 

Eggs Benedict 0

Orange Juice 0

 

Cooking charge 50

Purchase Eggs 20

Juicing charge 20

Electric 10

Cooks wages 30

Share of rent 5

Purchase Oranges 10

Servers wages 5

Service Charge 30

 

Sub total 180

VAT @ 7% 13

 

Total 193

 

People want to know what something will cost them. Not some fancy list of additional charges that is kept a secret till they pay or written in small print at the bottom of the price list.

[alias 111]

No.

 

There is a special category for tipped employees in the US (by the taxman) BECAUSE they make far more than the minimum wage.

 

The "taxman" doesn't make US labor laws.

[joekicker 53]

Joe you are struggling with this one. Who told you most people want a bill with itemized tax and service.

 

I SPECIFICALLY said I didn't know, but SPECIFICALLY stated that a lot of people want it itemised and SPECIFICALLY stated that a lot of places, the majority of Thai hotels and restaurants for starters, DO itemise the bill.

 

Of course a lot of them weasel it, of course they do -- the very origin of "++" is weaseling.

 

If that were true then all the other businesses around would do that as well. The butcher, the baker the candle stick maker, the supermarket the book store, the go go bar even little Noi's Som Tum stall on Soi Joesadreamer.

 

Pretty well all of them do. I believe that most places that charge VAT are required by law to print that on the receipt. Not positive though. Still, it's on pretty well every bill I get -- the cost, the VAT, the total. Pretty well all hotels and restaurants itemise the two taxes and the VAT as well. As for me, I say again I don't really care.

 

People want to know what something will cost them. Not some fancy list of additional charges that is kept a secret till they pay or written in small print at the bottom of the price list.

 

What I said. Some people (you) charge "all in" and some people itemise. Both of these are great systems, my opinion.

 

The ones that get up my nose are the ones that surprise you with it, "Oh, and you owe another 10% ...".

 

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[joekicker 53]

The "taxman" doesn't make US labor laws.

 

Are you claiming my statement was incorrect? Or what? I made a simple, single-sentence declaration. It's right or wrong. I claim it's right. If not, it'd be ever so simple to prove it's wrong. Bet you can't.

 

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[alias 111]

Are you claiming my statement was incorrect? Or what? I made a simple, single-sentence declaration. It's right or wrong. I claim it's right. If not, it'd be ever so simple to prove it's wrong. Bet you can't.

 

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There is a special category for tipped employees in the US (by the taxman) BECAUSE they make far more than the minimum wage.

 

Yes, I'm claiming that is incorrect. And further, here is a simple declarative sentence for you:

 

You're a fucking arrogant wanker.

[Evil Penevil 7,628]

There is a special category for tipped employees in the US (by the taxman) BECAUSE they make far more than the minimum wage.

 

Yes, I'm claiming that is incorrect.

 

Joe's statement is correct. The IRS had a category for tipped employees before the minimum wage provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 were extended by Congress in 1967 to cover restaurant and bar employees. Back then, there was a debate about whether all gratuities should be counted as wages (business owners' position) or no gratuities should be counted as wages (employees' and union position). The outcome was a compromise that allows some restaurants and bars to use a tip credit to pay some service personnel less that the minimum wage IF the employee's TOTAL earned income is more than the minimum wage.

 

Don't lose sight of the forest by arguing about the leaves on the trees. The Federal minimum wage in the U.S. amounts to $300 a week for a 40-week. That's $15,600 a year, assuming the employee doesn't take a day off. The only people who can live on that wage are those in small towns where rents are extremely low or perhaps young people living at home with their parents. Most professional food and beverage service employees earn far more than minimum wage, although the industry as a whole is indeed a low-paid sector.

 

I know a bartender in New York City who earns an average of $500 a night Monday through Thursday, including tips, and double that per night if she works Fridays or Saturdays. It's a busy and popular bar, but not a particularly upscale place.

 

Evil

Edited January 29, 2011 by Evil Penevil

[joekicker 53]

Yes, I'm claiming that is incorrect.

 

How silly of you. Google could have been your friend so easily. Here's the US tax department's form and instructions for employees earning tips.

 

It's the government so there's a lot more than this, of course.

 

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Edited January 29, 2011 by joekicker