International transfers (American Bank to Thai Bank)

[Trvlr 50]

 

I wonder if you read my previous post regarding expat reporting to IRS (Form 8938) and FBAR to the Treasury Department.

 

I did see it. Does it invalidate anything I said...it doesn't look like that to me?

Here is a link to the IRS page on FBAR. It seems it was always around, and a new version was recently introduced. Sorry, I have just reproduced the hyperlink.

 

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Report-of-Foreign-Bank-and-Financial-Accounts-FBAR

 

For myself, I am going to depend on my IRS filing to meet the provisions of this form. (The IRS has asked the $10,000 question in previous years too.)

 

I am not going to worry about that FATCA thing. You should do your own research, but unless you are the secret owner of Bangkok Bank, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

However, if you do find something definitive that affects the "ordinary" expat, I will appreciate it if you post it.

[jacko 8,827]

I have been using this accountant for more than 15 years and have had no problems. My view is better safe than sorry. I have been living her for a damn sight more than 339 days and he has been doing my tax returns every year since I have been here.

What is a tax return?

You have been living here forever, surprised you need to even put in the annual effort.

Perhaps the accountant likes the custom?

[nkped 1,208]

 

 

I am not going to worry about that FATCA thing. You should do your own research, but unless you are the secret owner of Bangkok Bank, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

However, if you do find something definitive that affects the "ordinary" expat, I will appreciate it if you post it.

This article goes back to last year, but it looks like Thailand was on its way to an agreement for FATCA reporting. http://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Tax/FATCA-Thai-Cabinet-Approves-Draft

 

Earlier, there was some definite concern about banks dumping U.S. customers. http://www.bangkokpost.com/print/329549/ The big stick, from the viewpoint of account holders, was 30% withholding on transfers to non-compliant institutions.

[Trvlr 50]

What is a tax return?

You have been living here forever, surprised you need to even put in the annual effort.

Perhaps the accountant likes the custom?

 

US law is pretty draconian in that respect. I can use stronger terms to describe it, but it won't strengthen the argument.

US citizens always have to file their tax returns - in other words report income and pay tax on it, wherever they are. Unless they are exempt for specific reasons. Even if they are taxed by another country on the same income. If there is an agreement with a country on avoiding double taxation then they may not have to pay that tax. And there is another way of avoiding double taxation, but there is no getting away from reporting to Uncle Sam.

If you are living on savings then you have no income, (or if it is below the taxation threshold) and you do not have to file.

[MM 6,562]

Trvlr, yes I'm saying my post is different from yours in that there is no requirement to report amounts over $10,000 on your tax return if you're an expat.

 

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[Trvlr 50]

Trvlr, yes I'm saying my post is different from yours in that there is no requirement to report amounts over $10,000 on your tax return if you're an expat.

 

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I am not finding the info you are referring to. Maybe go through that page whose URL I gave above...it has some numbers and email info if you want to know more about FBAR?

Since I am not in the expat category I am not looking into it too deeply.

The same page has the following para, with no reference to expats not having to file FBAR with a higher than $10000 level:

 

"For non-resident U.S. taxpayers presenting a low compliance risk, the IRS implemented new streamlined filing compliance procedures effective September 1, 2012. The procedures are designed for non-resident U.S. citizens, including but not limited to dual citizens, residing outside the U.S. since January 1, 2009, and who have not filed U.S. income tax and information returns. The procedures require the filing of delinquent income tax and information returns for the past three years and the filing of delinquent FBARs for the past six years."

 

I am not saying your facts are incorrect, since I have not investigated the matter thoroughly. But if I were you I'd take a second look at it.

Sorry to cast a pall on your new year's morning.

Happy new year every one!

[MM 6,562]

That's exactly why I asked if you'd read my post. It's in there.

You keep telling me to "take a second look" which i find somewhat dismissive since you've not addressed what I've said at all.

Once again, I am saying, for an expat, the $10,000 threshold does not apply.

You're not being an expat and admittedly not investigating this exemption, does NOT mean i should take a "second look".

Here's the relevant quote from the IRS:

 

 

Do I need to file Form 8938, “Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets”?

 

 

 

If you are a taxpayer living abroad you must file if:

 

You are filing a return other than a joint return and the total value of your specified foreign assets is more than $200,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $300,000 at any time during the year; or

You are filing a joint return and the value of your specified foreign asset is more than $400,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $600,000 at any time during the year.

 

 

 

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[Trvlr 50]

That's exactly why I asked if you'd read my post. It's in there.

You keep telling me to "take a second look" which i find somewhat dismissive since you've not addressed what I've said at all.

Once again, I am saying, for an expat, the $10,000 threshold does not apply.

You're not being an expat and admittedly not investigating this exemption, does NOT mean i should take a "second look".

Here's the relevant quote from the IRS:

 

 

Do I need to file Form 8938, “Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets�

 

 

 

If you are a taxpayer living abroad you must file if:

 

You are filing a return other than a joint return and the total value of your specified foreign assets is more than $200,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $300,000 at any time during the year; or

You are filing a joint return and the value of your specified foreign asset is more than $400,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $600,000 at any time during the year.

 

 

 

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Both of us were guilty of writing without having all the info.

Expats ARE required to file FBAR if they hold more than $10,000. I am creating a separate thread - this has little to do with the present thread. I will include basic information, as well as a link for you - or anyone - to verify the information.

It can be useful to other US citizens living here.

[MM 6,562]

trvlr, once again, if you'd read my post you'd see that I specifically said the exemption only applied to ex-pats filling a tax return form 8938.

I also said that FBAR reporting had no such exemption and was for amounts over $10,000 BUT that is not reported on your tax return..which was the original point of difference between Gary and me. Note that both of us are ex-pats.

 

 

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[Gary 4,119]

When I knew that I would be retiring in Thailand, I notified Scottrade for an address change. They immediately told me that I couldn't have a Scottrade account without a US residence. It was a poor time to get out of the market but I sold out. It ended up being a nightmare. I found an accountant who also represents LPL. I hired him to take care of my 401K account and to do my tax returns from over here. Scottrade caused me a lot of problems and the IRS told me I owed more than $10,000 in taxes. Scottrade was absolutely no help but my accountant finally got everything straightened out. He did notify me last year that if I had more than $10,000 in a Thai bank, that this year we would have to declare it. If he has any questions, he asks me for the answers, other than that we have very little dealings.

 

I usually get a refund every year that is several times more than what he charges me. I file a joint return.

[Trvlr 50]

When I knew that I would be retiring in Thailand, I notified Scottrade for an address change. They immediately told me that I couldn't have a Scottrade account without a US residence. It was a poor time to get out of the market but I sold out. It ended up being a nightmare. I found an accountant who also represents LPL. I hired him to take care of my 401K account and to do my tax returns from over here. Scottrade caused me a lot of problems and the IRS told me I owed more than $10,000 in taxes. Scottrade was absolutely no help but my accountant finally got everything straightened out. He did notify me last year that if I had more than $10,000 in a Thai bank, that this year we would have to declare it. If he has any questions, he asks me for the answers, other than that we have very little dealings.

 

I usually get a refund every year that is several times more than what he charges me. I file a joint return.

 

You may be able to get away by renting a box at one of the private mail businesses. You just use a "suite number" and a street address, so no post office box appears in the address. Of course, someone will have to pick up your mail regularly.

As for Scottrade, it is a cheap company and, what is worse, it behaves cheaply. I thought of opening an account with them many years ago, but after I talked to the branch manager I got the sense that they are rigid a--holes with no sense of accommodation for individual needs. I walked away. You are better off without them.

[Gary 4,119]

I could easily give a US address but my permanent address is in Thailand and this is where I live. I absolutely refuse to use a phony US address. I have discovered that US banks are NOT friendly to expats. I have been a Citibank customer for a lot of years and they saw fit to cancel my Visa card because I don't have a US address. Bank of America has no problem servicing my Visa card.

[nkped 1,208]

I could easily give a US address but my permanent address is in Thailand and this is where I live. I absolutely refuse to use a phony US address. I have discovered that US banks are NOT friendly to expats. I have been a Citibank customer for a lot of years and they saw fit to cancel my Visa card because I don't have a US address. Bank of America has no problem servicing my Visa card.

BoA has no problem with sending the card to an address in Thailand? I notice that my one BoA credit card has a chip as well as the old magnetic strip.

[Gary 4,119]

BoA has no problem with sending the card to an address in Thailand? I notice that my one BoA credit card has a chip as well as the old magnetic strip.

 

As a matter of fact, Bank of America sent me a new Visa card in February. It looks the same as the expired card so I don't know about a chip. I don't use the credit card except for online purchases. BoA has a feature called Shop Safe. You put the maximum amount and get a one time use number. It's easy to use and works great. Before they offered that, they had refused a number of purchases I had made. Now they go straight through. I have notified BoA that I will have no purchases that were not made using Shop Safe.

[js007 795]

There ARE mail forwarding places in the US that use a street address and suite number. For example, 123 Maple Street, Suite 101. That might be your address. They receive your mail and can forward it to you anywhere in the world. You can instruct them as to whether or not to throw away junk mail, and so on. There's a monthly fee and you pay for forwarding costs, but it might work at as a USA address for some. It helps to have such a service in a state with no income taxes. No sense in having state tax people on your ass if not necessary.

[Trvlr 50]

There ARE mail forwarding places in the US that use a street address and suite number. For example, 123 Maple Street, Suite 101. That might be your address. They receive your mail and can forward it to you anywhere in the world. You can instruct them as to whether or not to throw away junk mail, and so on. There's a monthly fee and you pay for forwarding costs, but it might work at as a USA address for some. It helps to have such a service in a state with no income taxes. No sense in having state tax people on your ass if not necessary.

 

You mean obtain an address like that and declare residency in that state? Such as Washington, with no state income taxes.

Is it legal, do you know? And do you happen to know the name of one of these outfits?

[mike_asia 1]

 

You mean obtain an address like that and declare residency in that state? Such as Washington, with no state income taxes.

Is it legal, do you know? And do you happen to know the name of one of these outfits?

You don't really have to declare residency its your mailing address.

 

Some of the services will scan the front of the mail and you instruct them to open and scan, forward or trash it.

 

Never used it but here is one example.

 

https://www.postscanmail.com

[nkped 1,208]

You mean obtain an address like that and declare residency in that state? Such as Washington, with no state income taxes.

Is it legal, do you know? And do you happen to know the name of one of these outfits?

I have my mail forwarded to a UPS box during my LOS sojourns. When I picked up my 3 months of mail last week, the counter clerk said they could forward mail overseas for $40 a pop. She said that, at my request, they could open and scan specific items to email to me.

 

When I submit the forwarding request to USPS to forward my mail to the UPS location, the USPS computer immediately recognizes the address as a commercial mail facility. I don't think you are going to fool anybody.

 

BTW. Alaska doesn't have an income tax, but I own a house here. That might be a bit much for most people looking for a tax haven.

Edited April 20, 2014 by nkped

[Trvlr 50]

I have my mail forwarded to a UPS box during my LOS sojourns. When I picked up my 3 months of mail last week, the counter clerk said they could forward mail overseas for $40 a pop. She said that, at my request, they could open and scan specific items to email to me.

 

When I submit the forwarding request to USPS to forward my mail to the UPS location, the USPS computer immediately recognizes the address as a commercial mail facility. I don't think you are going to fool anybody.

 

BTW. Alaska doesn't have an income tax, but I own a house here. That might be a bit much for most people looking for a tax haven.

 

When you say "a UPS box" do you mean Mailbox, the chain that UPS bought a few years ago? Their boxes are pretty small, what happens when you have more mail? And how much mail will they forward for $40?

 

You don't really have to declare residency its your mailing address.

 

Some of the services will scan the front of the mail and you instruct them to open and scan, forward or trash it.

 

Never used it but here is one example.

 

https://www.postscanmail.com

 

Well, at various points in life, such as when doing taxes, you have to identify which state you are a resident of. Also when obtaining a drivers license. And so on. I just wondered if getting a mailing address is sufficient for these purposes.

It is a complex question for which I will need to do my own research, but if anyone has opinions I will take'em.

[nkped 1,208]

 

When you say "a UPS box" do you mean Mailbox, the chain that UPS bought a few years ago? Their boxes are pretty small, what happens when you have more mail? And how much mail will they forward for $40?

 

 

Well, at various points in life, such as when doing taxes, you have to identify which state you are a resident of. Also when obtaining a drivers license. And so on. I just wondered if getting a mailing address is sufficient for these purposes.

It is a complex question for which I will need to do my own research, but if anyone has opinions I will take'em.

"a UPS box" --store front operation with a UPS sign above the door offering UPS shipping, mail boxes, notary services (often) and a grab bag of other services. There are several of them in Anchorage and they were common in the Puget Sound area of Washington state as well. I have no idea whether they are the result of a buyout of Mailboxes etc. Yes, the boxes are rather small. The store I deal with has no problem holding the mail beyond the capacity of the box, but I haven't been gone longer than three months. Also, snow birds and other varieties of partial year residents are common in Alaska. For that reason, they may be more flexible than outlets in more conventional locations. No idea how much mail they would forward for $40; I haven't had occasion to avail myself of that service.

 

Just a barely informed opinion, but if I was going to have to litigate state of residence for tax purposes, I would want something more than a mailing address. In addition to living in the state for some period of time, registering to vote, registering a vehicle and getting a driver's license come to mind. For a rather different purpose, I have known of people getting jammed up for claiming residence solely on the basis of a commercial mail box.

[js007 795]

Sometimes, people move to a state with no income taxes for a time, prior to moving overseas. The get a new driver's license, fishing license, pay federal taxes, etc., all from the new state. In other words, they have established domicile and residence in the new state. THEN, they move overseas. I think using a mail drop service would work better after once establishing residence in the new state.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

This company has a very good reputation. It's a peer to peer operation.

 

https://www.currencyfair.com/about-us/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/dansimon/2013/10/18/entrepreneur-interviews-brett-meyers-ceo-currencyfair/

 

Hi,

 

Currency Fair have a new ad campaign on TV at the moment with that strange looking Frenchman.

 

[Gonzo 419]

What is a tax return?

You have been living here forever, surprised you need to even put in the annual effort.

Perhaps the accountant likes the custom?

I have to do a tax return in Australia every year at the end of our financial year 30.June, in order to keep my Australian citizenship and to keep my Australian resident status, instead of being declared an Australian non resident, which cancels out your Australian Medicare entitlements. I have until the end of October every year to do so. That is only one of the reasons why we will go back to Australia in a couple of weeks for a 3 months holiday. I was treated at the Royal Darwin Hospital for free for four months two years ago, when I arrived back home with a broken neck, only because I was able to prove I was an Australian resident, doing my yearly Australian tax return, paying City council rates, my telephone and electricity bills there and body corporate fees for my condo in Darwin.

 

No matter where you come from, your bank or in my case my Credit Union will charge you the 2% International conversion fee or more for any money transactions. Have a look at the buy/ sell rates at your Thai bank, which explains it all. It won't show up in your bank account statements either. There is no such thing as free international money exchanges. The banks make sure of that.

[tko 219]

I use a re-mailer service that gives me a US street address for $200/year and lets me see what's in the box online. I can tell them to throw items away, pack them up and send them to me, or open and scan them. The last two are at an additional charge. I use this address for brokerage accounts, etc. I'll use my Thai address for taxes so I don't get fined for not buying an Obamacare policy.

 

I'm a member of a credit union that doesn't charge for outgoing foreign wire transfers.

[jacko 8,827]

I have a HSBC account in the UK and use their internet banking.... but after a bad experience some years back have never used them to transfer cash over to Thailand. Back then they transferred some money for me (not Thailand) and used a secondary clearing bank and I got hit by 2 charges. The second charge was another £30 on top or £25 I had already paid, it was not mentioned and I felt I had been cheated... or perhaps they were being 'economical' with the details.

 

Recently, when on their web page I noticed they were touting cheap international transfers....... and as I needed a top-up, I was tempted.

Anyhow, I gave it a go and was quite happy.

 

I immediately saw there was NO option to send 'Sterling'..it was baht or 'Sterling Equivalent', aha, they will screw me on the rate I thought, but quoted rate looked reasonable. All Expats live by the rule.....send your home currency, not baht, as the rates here are better.

But maybe that is becoming a thing of the past.

 

Anyhow, a few days ago, Wednesday morning (Thai), initiated the transfer, that afternoon, alert that it was in my Thai account.

No apparent deduction in Thailand, possibly because baht arrived.

Rate was 54.65.(The same as Bangkok bank would give me for a TT with a 500 baht deduction).

So a pretty fast transfer and a good rate I thought.

UK Bank charge £4.

Disadvantage, maximum single transaction amount £2000, but you can make multiple transfers up to £50k.

 

Times are changing and the old 'rules' may no longer apply as local banks look to increase profits.

This rate is the same as TT exchange were offering for cash.

It was so straight-forward too.

Edited July 20, 2014 by jacko