Dowries

[Eric_Olthwaite 0]

Getting spliced in LOS this year, and I'd really appreciate some advice on dowries. I know social standing is a major factor in determining how much, so to put things in context, my tee rak is a hotel worker in Pattaya, from a modest northern family. I could also use some tips on Thai wedding etiquette, such as whether it's OK to show affection western-style ie kissing the bride etc. Thanks in advance for any help.

[ting_tong 63]

Eric, you did not do your homework did you?

 

And after 95 posts you never joined the members board?

 

up2U

 

T_T

[BigDUSA 71]

Getting spliced in LOS this year, and I'd really appreciate some advice on dowries. I know social standing is a major factor in determining how much, so to put things in context, my tee rak is a hotel worker in Pattaya, from a modest northern family. I could also use some tips on Thai wedding etiquette, such as whether it's OK to show affection western-style ie kissing the bride etc. Thanks in advance for any help.

If your bride to be has been married before and or has children. Dowry is not required. It will be expected because your a farang. I would let the family make the first move if they ask for 100 or 200K your being played. Watch how your women presents this to you.

 

I would be willing to pay 40K with the understanding that 20K would be kicked back to me. Kickback goes on all the time between Thais.

 

As long as you don't slobber all over her and stick your tongue down to her stomach. They won't throw you out.

[Eric_Olthwaite 0]

Yeah, hands up TT. I think I read it when I first found this site, but then forgot there was much more to it than just the forums. But is the suggested figure of 100,000 Baht right? I've seen that amount quoted elsewhere as the starting point for a (quote) "Upper Middle Class" girl.

[Tweety 0]

Getting spliced in LOS this year, and I'd really appreciate some advice on dowries. I know social standing is a major factor in determining how much, so to put things in context, my tee rak is a hotel worker in Pattaya, from a modest northern family. I could also use some tips on Thai wedding etiquette, such as whether it's OK to show affection western-style ie kissing the bride etc. Thanks in advance for any help. 

How much you will have to pay for downry to marry your Thai girlfriend will indeed depend on social standing, family background, job of girl, etc.. Keep in mind that at a traditional Thai wedding, you also will have to buy gold, etc for her parents. And probably also have to pay the cost of the wedding-party itself.

 

I will marry my Thai girlfriend in May. She has a good job at a big Korean company in BKK (no bar-girl at all), her parents live near Lopburi and are so called "middle/high-class". The downry I have to pay is 500,000.- bath.. But this will include everything. So no more hidden expenses. Even made the deal to get 100,000 bath back after wedding, including all the guest-tips.. So I think not too bad considering her social standing..

 

They just wanted to see the 500,000.- bath to impress their relatives and as prove for me that I can take care of her (in financial way). Maybe it's also a bit higher as normal as after our wedding, my GF will gonna live here in Europe.

 

Tweety.

[BillWilson 10]

Buddy

pm me, i just finished a 1 year courtship/fiance/dowry (sinsot)/ getting married/ visa to the usa deal.

I KNOW your case is different, however, you need to go into this with eyes open

[Babepecker 0]

How much you will have to pay for downry to marry your Thai girlfriend will indeed depend on social standing, family background, job of girl, etc.. Keep in mind that at a traditional Thai wedding, you also will have to buy gold, etc for her parents. And probably also have to pay the cost of the wedding-party itself.

 

I will marry my Thai girlfriend in May. She has a good job at a big Korean company in BKK (no bar-girl at all), her parents live near Lopburi and are so called "middle/high-class". The downry I have to pay is 500,000.- bath.. But this will include everything. So no more hidden expenses. Even made the deal to get 100,000 bath back after wedding, including all the guest-tips.. So I think not too bad considering her social standing..

 

They just wanted to see the 500,000.- bath to impress their relatives and as prove for me that I can take care of her (in financial way). Maybe it's also a bit higher as normal as after our wedding, my GF will gonna live here in Europe.

 

Tweety.

Tweety,

sorry to break it to you, but:

 

you are being played.

 

 

Take care of yourself before it is too late - forget her.

 

 

[Tweety 0]

Tweety,

sorry to break it to you, but:

 

you are being played. 

 

 

Take care of yourself before it is too late - forget her.

I will always been played anyway.. As a thing like "dowry" is very uncommon here in Europe. Even to explain to my parents or friends.. But well, it's a part of their culture.. mai pen rai!

 

About being "played" too much or not will always be a question.. Before I accepted this amount of money, I did my research already also. From friends, Internet and co-workers of her.. Wanted to pay the money only one time (and everything included, from wedding-party untill all future expenses). No money being send to her parents after marriage, etc.. One deal, one time.

 

If I should have my wedding-party in Europe (party, ceremony) it would have cost me quite a lot of money also. So the bit extra I have to pay as "dowry" in that way,

I have to accept.

 

Knowing her parents already for over 5 years I never got any impression that they cheated me or "abuse" me in the wrong way. Many times they gave me gifts (even golden necklace) without any reason. Or paid my GF's flightticket to Europe when

she came here to visit me. Never asked about any money in return.

 

We will maybe never know if it was too much or not.. Ofcourse always too much for us (non-Thai), but I am not speaking about an Isaan-family or bad girl's background. Sometimes have to believe and trust them also... And well... Only the future will tell if it was a good or wrong decission.. Have to play the game :-)

There is also something involved called 'love'....

 

But in general: it will be hard to judge what should be the right dowry or not.. Every case/situation is different and has to be judged on its own.. There is no golden rule for it. Do the research and make a limit that's acceptable to pay (or not).. That's all I can say.

 

Tweety.

[Greg_B 306]

Just before I got married last year, her Mother did ask about a dowry. I was able to sit down with the 'wife" and explain that I could pay a dowry to her Mother and then there would be no money for the house.

 

She wanted the house and her Mother was made to understand, she may have not liked it, but it was better for her anyway. The wife wanted a home and there was only so much money to go around.

 

Not an upper class girl, just one from the rural area of Sakeo. I let her make the decision, as it was evident what she really wanted...

[Babepecker 0]

Baby:

 

Do you think it may be dangerous to throw around responses like that when you probably have no idea what you are talking about? That you may be fucking with a guy's relationship by pretending you know the deal?

 

Have you married a high class Thai before?

 

If not, what do you base your definitive statement on? Things you read on FLB?

 

 

Hub

Hub,

the good old Webster's Encyclopedic etc. Dictionary says:

 

dowry 1. Also, dower. the money, goods, or estate which a woman brings to her husband at marriage. 2. ...

 

 

Now, I obviously do not know that particular 'deal', as I am not a party in his relationship, really , but I am pretty sure that Tweety is a grown-up who can accept that characterising a payment of 10 000 US$ (500k Baht - 100k Baht that he hopes to get back) for a wife, in the year 2004 , as 'being played' is not necessarily an exaggeration. It is my opinion and I believe that it depends on one's personal angle.

 

If I read Tweety's initial post well, his Thai wife is going to move to Europe to live with him, meaning that he believes that she is civilized enough to be able to do it.

Compare that with the 'reverse-dowry' (see above) custom and see how it fits...

 

Btw, the dowry as described at the beginning of this post is still alive and well in the rural parts of Croatia - but only as a show. OTOH, I heard rumours that some foreign women really believed the story.

 

 

On to Hubby's 2nd installment:

I really feel sorry for the guy that has met and fallen in love with a nice Thai girl and vice versa that reads the above BS.

 

This guy then shitcans the relationship because he accuses her and her family of trying "to play him" in ignorance of the cultural tradition of sin sot. banghead.gif banghead.gif

 

No mention of negotiation, just "you are being played". Very wise....not. rolleyes.gif

 

Good on you Tweety and Greg, sounds like you both handled it wisely albeit in different ways. I hope Eric pays attention to your posts.

 

Hub

 

I credit the members of this Forum for having their own mind about anything they read on the Internet.

 

You, seemingly, do not.

 

 

We shall both have to live with the imperfections of the other one.

 

 

Btw, I still believe that Tweety is being played - read below for the, simplicistic, explanation.

 

 

 

[cowboy 0]

Tweety,

you did not mention whether your girl has ever been married before. If she has never been married then I do not think you are being played. If the family situation is as you describe, then the amount you are paying seems very ball park even if you were thai middleclass. Check some of the info. there are thia's middle class paying 1 mil baht sin sot. Plus, There is a high probability that her parents will spend 100,000 to 200,000 baht on the party. They will spend on lots of things to impress freinds and family. (expect lots of monks among other things).

 

What doesn't get mention is that traditionally thais yings were not into big expensive engagement rings like yings in the west. Modernazation has done wonders and now most thai girls want a diamond. But even at that, a $1000 us diamond usually impress the hell out of the thai girls while a typical female in the US wants a $5k to $10k rock. I think the dowry you are paying is great. You will still make out with a wedding cost of about 1/10th what you would wind up paying in the US.

 

Best of Luck to you.

[Babepecker 0]

I will always been played anyway.. As a thing like "dowry" is very uncommon here in Europe. Even to explain to my parents or friends.. But well, it's a part of their culture.. mai pen rai!

 

About being "played" too much or not will always be a question.. Before I accepted this amount of money, I did my research already also. From friends, Internet and co-workers of her.. Wanted to pay the money only one time (and everything included, from wedding-party untill all future expenses). No money being send to her parents after marriage, etc.. One deal, one time.

 

If I should have my wedding-party in Europe (party, ceremony) it would have cost me quite a lot of money also. So the bit extra I have to pay as "dowry" in that way,

I have to accept.

 

Knowing her parents already for over 5 years I never got any impression that they cheated me or "abuse" me in the wrong way. Many times they gave me gifts (even golden necklace) without any reason. Or paid my GF's flightticket to Europe when

she came here to visit me. Never asked about any money in return.

 

We will maybe never know if it was too much or not.. Ofcourse always too much for us (non-Thai), but I am not speaking about an Isaan-family or bad girl's background. Sometimes have to believe and trust them also... And well... Only the future will tell if it was a good or wrong decission.. Have to play the game :-)

There is also something involved called 'love'....

 

But in general: it will be hard to judge what should be the right dowry or not.. Every case/situation is different and has to be judged on its own.. There is no golden rule for it. Do the research and make a limit that's acceptable to pay (or not).. That's all I can say.

 

Tweety.

Tweety,

I do not know about the Netherlands, but dowry, payable by the bride (as defined above) existed all over Europe till not too long ago and it is still a part of old ethnic customs in many places (Germany, Austria, ex-Yugoslavian countries...).

 

 

Regarding the quality of the deal you have struck, this sounds encouraging, IMO:

"No money being send to her parents after marriage, etc."

 

OTOH, I fear for the future of your relationship when I read a line from you like this:

"I have to accept."

 

 

As it is your relationship/marriage, only you can say whether it is worth it - and I do not necessarily mean the financial expense, but the idea of really having to pay for a person, a wife in your case.

 

Another question, IMO, is: what do her parents need those 400k Baht for, if they are really "middle/high-class"?

 

Furthermore, it surprizes me a lot that they would think that a Dutch with a job would have a problem showing up with 10 000 Euro, especially considering that you have known each other for 5 years and that their daughter visited you in Europe.

 

 

Anyway, good luck to you and 'have a parachute ready, please'.

 

 

[cowboy 0]

Babe,

why pay if they are middle class? Middle class cost more.

 

If her family was rich then he would really have to pay. Know of one guy marying thai girl from rich family. He is italian. She drives a ferrari, bought for her by her father. (know what type of money that takes in LOS??)

 

her father hired him as a consultant and is paying him big bucks so that he can afford to pay 4 million baht sin sot. It is all about face. Instead of giving the money back afterwards the father is essentially giving him the money in advance so that he can pay the sin sot.

 

I just told the groom to be that he should really be sure becuase the fathers got real connections. If the groom changes his mind and breaks Daddy's little girls heart there will be some real shit to pay.

[Babepecker 0]

Babe,

why pay if they are middle class?  Middle class cost more.

 

If her family was rich then he would really have to pay. Know of one guy marying thai girl from rich family. He is italian. She drives a ferrari, bought for her by her father. (know what type of money that takes in LOS??)

 

her father hired him as a consultant and is paying him big bucks so that he can afford to pay 4 million baht sin sot. It is all about face. Instead of giving the money back afterwards the father is essentially giving him the money in advance so that he can pay the sin sot.

 

I just told the groom to be that he should really be sure becuase the fathers got real connections. If the groom changes his mind and breaks Daddy's little girls heart there will be some real shit to pay.  

cowboy,

in your example, the italian guy is getting the surplus, not-really-earned-or-deserved cash in advance in order to be able to provide a good show while, in effect, paying it back.

 

This means that, effectively, he is not paying for his wife.

 

 

What bothers me in Tweety's case is that he is really going to pay for his wife and it is not all only about the 'face' / ancient local customs.

 

 

Btw, I believe that 1 Ferrari in Thailand equals approximately 3 in Italy or 2 in Croatia - ouch.

 

 

Cheers

[SunnyValentine 173]

Hub,

the good old Webster's Encyclopedic etc. Dictionary says:

 

dowry 1. Also, dower. the money, goods, or estate which a woman brings to her husband at marriage. 2. ...

Pecka, we're talking here about an old Thai custom and you provide a Webster's dic definition to aid your point?

When in rome ....... you know.

 

Dowries are very often a reality here, sometimes even for a good reason. All further details on if, how much and the like are to be based on a thorough analysis of the individual situation.

 

Please don't generalise! And stop being Mr. America, the cultural imperialist!

 

Sunny

[Frog 0]

All the guys in here who want some help somehow just want to put down their fears or receive some affirmations. I really beleive that they ask and some advice thier experience with honesty.

 

One fellow in here even say "I will always been played anyway..". What a honest way to see himself. Respect to you mate!.

 

It amazes me the comment of those how "knows it all" and make the last statement about something they have never experienced or have no idea about it.

 

All those macho man who patronise and lecture in here probably have never being able to get a woman in their own countries. In here they believe themselves Cassanovas and expert in love affairs.

 

Make me laugh the arrogant ignorance of these chaps. People talk about money in here, and consider others to be cheated, as if in western countries one does not have to pay a cost for a woman....and a very high cost (we cand argue this longer about this subject).

 

Eric_, do not worry for advise mate. Nobody can give it to you. People have no idea about what your feeling and personal needs are, and normally will talk from their own ignorance and pesonal frustrations. You have to go for your own experience and risk. If you fail you will have to eat your shit alone, but if you succeed (as I wish you mate), you will enjoy in life an unforgetable experience.

 

The cost?, who cares if you are happy!

[Babepecker 0]

Pecka, we're talking here about an old Thai custom and you provide a Webster's dic definition to aid your point?

When in rome ....... you know.

 

Dowries are very often a reality here, sometimes even for a good reason. All further details on if, how much and the like are to be based on a thorough analysis of the individual situation.

 

Please don't generalise! And stop being Mr. America, the cultural imperialist!

 

Sunny

SunnyValentine,

as you know, I am very far removed from being Mr. America - probably to the point of being considered Mr. anti-America by some of this Forum's members.

 

The dictionary example was mainly directed at our US member Hub, as a reminder of the meaning of the word dowry in his language (as it is just the 3rd languge for me...).

 

With this:

"Dowries are very often a reality here, sometimes even for a good reason. All further details on if, how much and the like are to be based on a thorough analysis of the individual situation."

I agree.

 

My point was: in Tweety's very individual situation, based on the few bits of information that he provided, I'd consider myself being unduly played and would reconsider my position and obligations.

 

Furthermore, I do not dispute the possibility of a successful cross-cultural relationship/marriage - I only advise putting a lot of extra effort and not forgetting one's basic values in the process.

 

 

Servus

 

 

 

Frog,

interesting.

 

If I managed to understand you right: one is either supportive towards other members' 'course of life', regardless of one's true opinion or one patronizes?

 

 

 

[cowboy 0]

Babe,

 

In the Italy guys case the girls family has so much money it's not funny. Since sin sot has to be paid to preserve face the father is seeing to it that his little girl gets what she wants. And face is saved. Even if everbody know what really is happening. Gotta love the Thais, ever so practical.

 

The problem we keep telling this idiot is that if he cheats on her and she decides that what she wants is his head on a platter, it will happen.

 

We told him that they only way he can ever fuck any other pussy is if his Father in law takes him. But then his FIL will really. really own him. He thinks he's in heaven, pretty girl, lots of money. WE KEEP TELLING HIM that he could be heading straight to hell.

[Babepecker 0]

Babe,

 

In the Italy guys case the girls family has so much money it's not funny. Since sin sot has to be paid to preserve face the father is seeing to it that his little girl gets what she wants. And face is saved. Even if everbody know what really is happening. Gotta love the Thais, ever so practical.

 

The problem we keep telling this idiot is that if he cheats on her and she decides that what she wants is his head on a platter, it will happen.

 

We told him that they only way he can ever fuck any other pussy is if his Father in law takes him. But then his FIL will really. really own him. He thinks he's in heaven, pretty girl, lots of money. WE KEEP TELLING HIM that he could be heading straight to hell.

 

Cool and interesting story cowboy - thanks for sharing it.

 

 

I dare guess that the Italian guy has found that elusive source of blonde Thai girls (including his fiance)?

 

 

[wombat 5]

. She drives a ferrari, bought for her by her father.

does she have an older sister thats single by any chance?................

[SunnyValentine 173]

Pecka: Mr. America was intended to be tongue-in-cheeck (as a matter of fact I just did not find the "Smiley" Key on my Keyboard when writing this), so no offense intended.

 

About Cultural Imperialism: Yes I mean that. From your statements here (and Hub pointed to another detail in your posts) I can sense this. Take care. It is not since very long that Croatians are widely recocnised as members of the "civilised" world, you remember Ustascha, or later General Norac..... Wrong concept of perception, I know, but don't make the same mistake on an other culture ....

 

Sunny

[Frog 0]

Yes, hopefull people can make up there own mind about what they read on the internet, but that does not make it any less valid to dispute blatant ignorance when posted, especially in the form of an absolute as you did and I have no qualms on making a strong response to refute your points.

 

Hub , thanks for your note. Unfortunatelly I am not a native English speaking chap so it is hard for me to express clearly my point as you do. I am uncivilized as babe would say.

 

What offends me is that the language that some chaps use in here is abusive. Probably it would be acceptable if they really have a point to make. But they have none. They demonstrate to have no experience at all in the matter, and it appreas to me that they repeat what they have heard somewhere in a pub.

 

No problem with some expressing own ideas and opinions, and maintain "their own cultural values". My point is that guys like the ones asking for advice in such a honest way (also naive I would say), deserve no abuse.

[rakuguy 0]

I mentioned this thread to my female Thai friend at lunch the other day and she was incredulous and honestly thought I was joking. She said no middle or upper class girl with a decent job would consider asking for a dowry in this day and age except maybe in the lower income population in extremely rural areas. Maybe it's just a Farang thang.

[clubman 0]

Buy her family a Buffalo or two, or a motorbike. then tell her thats it.

[Tweety 0]

She said no middle or upper class girl with a decent job would consider asking for a dowry in this day and age except maybe in the lower income population in extremely rural areas.

Not the girl is asking for a dowry, but the parents do. As for my girlfriend the dowry-thing isn't that important at all for her.. But for her parents (and relatives) as it's part of their culture and way they respect it (in daily life). A dowry is part of their Thai wedding-ceremony. No matter if it would be a Thai man or farang.

 

The world is changing, even inside Thailand.. But don't forget that some people respect their culture and roots they belong too. No matter if they are lower- or upper-class.

We can only respect that.. No matter if a dowry has to be paid or not..

 

Tweety.