Delta sucks

[Tengotodo 52]

got a call from my travel agent yestersday. Seems Delta screwed up my ticketed reservation purchased over 2 months ago. All of a sudden there are no seats available for me on the outbound flight AND on the return flight. After 3 hours on the phone with various idiots, all they could do was get me on the next plane out, 13 hours later AND forced me to take a 10-hour layover in LAX.

 

I figured this was all their fault and quite an inconvenience so they should somehow compensate me for all this. NOPE. They told me either a refund or take the layover. NEVER fly Delta again!!!! (I took the layover)

[Soi7 1]

Tengotodo,

 

Delta code shares with Korean and that's really who is to blame as that's who you will fly with. Seems strange that they confirmed the ticket then 2 months later theres no seats. Could it be a Travel agent fuck up maybe ?

[Tengotodo 52]

You don't suppose they "bumped" me for someone willing to pay the higher prices (since they all went up very recently)? No, they would never do that!! Bastards!!

[Soi7 1]

Why don't you try China Air (Taiwan) or go directly to Korean Air?

 

I once got a ticket from Continental airlines for 400 dollars less that the airline they code share with NWA. So going to the actual airline is not always the best choice I am guessing they sell blocks to there code sharing partners at a greatly reduced rate.

 

Flight Tickets must be a great science as last trip to PI and LOS I found a fare for 720.00 SFO Manila Manila Bkk Bkk Manila Manila SFO. I booked for my self and another board member within a week this fare was up to 1830.00.

 

When flight day came the flight SFO to Manila was only 50 % full I know the airlines must have a formula but seems strange

[Lookn4Domi 0]

I bought mine on Delta (Delta to Atlanta and ATL to Souel and BKK on Korean) two months ago but I have the tickets in my hands. I've always like Korean. Very pretty Stewardi. More likely your agant screwed up.

 

I've flown the Delta/Korean to BKK trip twice in the past on free tickets from my frequent flyer miles and never had a problem. Seems like if they were regularly screwing somebody it would be us freebee flyers.

Edited October 24, 2005 by Lookn4Domi

[wacmedia 277]

Hi

 

I've flown Pan Am and TWA years ago. Wasen't too impressed. Any good airlines for future reference?

[Tengotodo 52]

Everything I've read suggests Thai Air and Singapore Airlines are superior to the rest. I plan on trying one next flight.

[Soi7 1]

I've flown Pan Am and TWA years ago.

 

MAN your talking a long while back yes

[Owen` 2]

I'm a very frequent flier. I do over 100,000 miles per year on various airlines.

 

Singapore Air is the finest airline in the world and everyone knows it. They dominate all the survey lists. That's that. You want the best, you fly SQ. You usually pay a few extra hundred dollars for that privilege.

 

Delta is not bad. They codeshare broadly and after years of being badly run, they had a management change about 3-4 years ago. The new CEO is 70+ years old, has no personal money axe to grind, gave himself a 25% paycut recently and has said his last goal for his life is to save that airline and make it great. Delta is not responsible for Korean Air or China Air. Codeshare just means they are all part of SkyTeam.

 

Thai Air is specialized. Always remember that. There are plusses and minuses to this.

 

China Air has a very serious safety history. Personally, I won't fly them.

 

Can't comment on the Aussie carriers. Never have occasion to fly them.

 

United is in its 3rd year of bankruptcy. Bothersome.

 

Northwest will probably survive, and will do so on its international routes.

[Hub 203]

Everything I've read suggests Thai Air and Singapore Airlines are superior to the rest. I plan on trying one next flight.

I would say that Singapore and Cathay are the best and usually one or the other gets voted best each year - :

 

http://www.airlinequality.com/2005/airline-05-ent.htm

 

can't even compare them to US airlines like NWA, IMO.

 

Hub

[lv2play 0]

China Air has a very serious safety history. Personally, I won't fly them.

 

China airlines renewed their complete fleet and i will fly with them any time.

I used them at least 10 times and can,t say a bad word about them.

Good clean new planes ,very good staff and service.

Also Eva airlines is more then good enough,actually most companies are better then any American airline now these days.

[Owen` 2]

 

QUOTE

China Air has a very serious safety history. Personally, I won't fly them.

 

 

China airlines renewed their complete fleet and i will fly with them any time.

I used them at least 10 times and can,t say a bad word about them.

Good clean new planes ,very good staff and service.

Also Eva airlines is more then good enough,actually most companies are better then any American airline now these days.

 

Google China Air and safety. No point in having polite service on a plane just before it smashes into the ground.

 

No question Singapore Air is superior to any American airline. SQ's coach is better than United's domestic FC.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Google China Air and safety. No point in having polite service on a plane just before it smashes into the ground.

 

No question Singapore Air is superior to any American airline. SQ's coach is better than United's domestic FC.

Owen,

 

China Airlines has never had a fatal accident involving aircraft on its European or North American routes. True, the last fatal accident involving a 747 was indeed China Airlines in 2002. The one prior to that was?

 

No point having lovely looking trolley dollies before the aircraft smashes into the ground, is there?

 

Tom

[lv2play 0]

Google China Air and safety. No point in having polite service on a plane just before it smashes into the ground.

 

 

 

I don,t need Google ,this site is very informative

 

airsafe

 

As been said China airlines renewed it,s whole fleet,all of the MD11 and Boeing 747-200 are replaced.

 

china airlines fleet

 

I never had a problem or a delay.

Planes fall down now and then,1 on a few hundred thousand what,s the big deal?

Edited October 25, 2005 by lv2play

[eycplUK 7]

Swiss International seem to get a good review on Seatgurudot.com

know they have a US route to Bkk but not sure if you have to fly into UK or into Zurich, might be worth checking out on www.swiss.com

[Owen` 2]

Thanks, guys.

 

That airsafe.com website is great. I had not seen it before.

 

The accident number for China Air still looks shaky to me. Equipment vs maintenance. I don't know. Still safer than driving a car, certainly.

 

I have talked up SQ and their safety record looks good there (that website should display accidents per total flights or per total flight miles -- a small airline with just a few airplanes has an advantage with this presentation), but I will toss you guys one anecdote.

 

SQ's trolley dollies have rigid requirements. They may not be married. They may not be older than a certain age. And they have a weight restriction too. They scent the air i n the cabin and all that super SQ service stuff -- but the flight attendants on US carriers sneer at them because there is a record of an SQ accident where those same trolley dollies opened the emergency exits and were the first off the plane. They didn't stay to do their jobs. Not good.

[lv2play 0]

Owen do you know this site then?

 

ranking airlines

I believe no American airlines in 5 and 4 star

 

lot,s of info and check the passengers opinions about China airlines.

SQ,rocks,i work a lot at Schiphol airport,seeing the SQ stewardesses passing by is more then a pleasure only

 

PS,I see the link was posted before,sorry

Edited October 25, 2005 by lv2play

[Soi7 1]

I believe no American airlines in 5 and 4 star

 

Comes from them not having any pride in there workmanship

Edited October 26, 2005 by Soi7

[cowboy 0]

Glenn Tilton's (united's CEO) recent address to the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco

 

 

Good evening, thank you Cowboy, and thank you Eric. It is a pleasure to be here with all of you punters tonight.

 

Some of you may have read the thoughtful recent editorials in the L.A. Times and the Financial Times, supporting the need for changes in U.S. policy and regulation of the airline industry. I am pleased to see the breadth of issues currently being discussed in the EU-U.S. talks.

 

My views on this topic have been consistent since I joined the industry, and I will be happy to discuss them in the Q and A session. This evening however, I am going to focus on United.

 

United had a very good day two weeks ago. We announced $3 billion in all-debt exit financing from two of the most respected financial institutions in the world - JP Morgan Chase and Citigroup. The terms of the financing are excellent and not at all typical for airlines exiting bankruptcy.

 

Which, we are now set to do in just a few months. As we do so, we are a fundamentally better company

· with dramatically lower costs,

· revenue performance outpacing the industry,

· improved earnings despite massive fuel cost increases,

· one of the best records for operational performance of the major

carriers,

· our world-class network is intact,

· and there are sustainable improvements across the business.

 

In sharp contrast to three years ago, when we were losing $3 billion a

year. Our cost structure was among the highest in the industry and we were

unable to compete in the US… and had no chance of competing with international carriers.

 

· Our collective bargaining agreements with our employees were uncompetitive with the realities of today’s marketplace.

 

· We had unsustainable legacy benefit obligations. Three years later, these same issues are today’s headlines - the only difference is that now it is in the larger context of legacy industry in the U.S.

 

United has “lived†these issues for the past three years. But, by confronting unpleasant realities, we have given United the opportunity to be successful and create value for our employees and future shareholders.

 

During the restructuring, we also resolved issues that were uniquely our own, including an impossible governance structure that paralyzed leadership and diluted focus on our customers.

 

Confronting everything that stood between us and viability, we have done more than simply survive. We have created a competitive company that has earned the opportunity to compete for leadership in the U.S. airline industry… and is well positioned as the global airline industry evolves.

 

We are here today because we are not in denial about what needed to be done in the past, nor what needs to be done in the future.

 

We face facts, we call the question and we follow through on decisions…regardless of how tough or unpopular they may be.

 

This industry will continue to be volatile and unpredictable. Those who will succeed are those who are better able and willing to respond to such volatility and unpredictability.

 

There is no future for a company that ignores the realities of the competitive marketplace, or ignores the facts that will ultimately determine success or failure.

 

U.S. network carriers, including United, had been unwilling or unable to deal with years and years of bad decisions…such as agreeing to provide higher and higher wages and benefits, knowing they were unsustainable … building business plans on some “hoped for†industry recovery, including the demise of United, rather than the reality of the market.

 

U.S. network carriers failed to respond to radical, permanent changes in the industry ... the low cost carriers and pricing transparency via the Internet…both of which forced airfares down 50 percent lower than they were 25 years ago, when adjusted for inflation.

 

The industry has lost $32 billion since 9/11, and another $10 billion loss is expected this year. Our first responsibility was to fix what was broken at United. Face the facts and restructure the company accordingly. We said from the beginning that there would be no quick fix, only sustainable solutions.

 

By reaching a balance across the interests of our three key stakeholders - customers, employees and our creditors, soon to be shareholders - we have built a solid competitive platform for United.

 

We lowered costs, excluding fuel, by 20 percent across the board - which will result in $7 billion in average annual cost savings through 2010.

 

We increased productivity by 27 percent - eliminating duplication, waste and improving efficiency. Fleet costs were renegotiated to achieve unprecedented savings - of $850 million annually. Contracts with our United Express partners are now some of the most favorable in the industry.

· Twice in three years, we worked with our labor groups to reach consensual agreements to bring wages and benefits in-line with market reality.

 

· We overhauled our governance structure and leadership team.And, we confronted the fact that United could no longer afford its legacy pension obligations. As I mentioned at the outset, we are not alone.

 

As difficult as this was, it was certainly better than liquidating the company. It preserves jobs for our 55,000 employees, soon to be joined by 500 recalled pilots and 2,100 new flight attendants by the end of next year.

 

It provides a better return for our creditors, including the U.S. government’s Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation…and provides continuity of global service for our loyal customers.

 

It is critical for us to continue to balance the interests of our employees, customers and investors in every decision we make at United.

 

Airlines, including United, have rarely done this well. Employees have endured the roller-coaster of boom and bust. All too often customers had to bear the brunt of the industry’s turmoil. For investors, this industry - for the most part - has been a losing proposition.

 

The only way to build value for all three is to achieve a balanced approach. And that is what we are doing. Our decisions are based on the facts…what is best for United, starting with our customers. Other U.S. carriers are content to provide a commodity product that meets the barest minimum of customer expectations…believing every element of their business is about cost.

 

We start with our customers…providing products and service they want and value, at prices they are willing to pay. We have strengthened our domestic network and global connectivity because they are highly valued by our customers. Today we serve more cities and fly more routes than we did in 2002.

 

United created differentiated products to meet changing customer demand, knowing that even the same customer wants different products at different times.

 

The business traveler has always been at the heart of United and we

will provide the travel experience they want. Against a backdrop of price reductions and declines in service in the U.S., we created p.s., our premium transcontinental flights, because we believed those customers were prepared to pay a premium for special service and a lie-flat bed. And we were right.

 

Today United’s p.s. service was awarded “best first class in North America†by Global Traveler Magazine. We introduced explus across United Express to better accommodate higher-yield passengers. New 70-seat jets with First Class and Economy Plus have redefined standards in the regional jet experience. United is not only competing for the business traveler; all our passengers and their travel demands are important to us and to the sustainability of our network. We provide a different experience that meets their expectation and price point.

 

The industry experts criticized our introduction of Ted, flying price-sensitive travelers to vacation destinations. Ted is, in fact, a success story for our customers and our employees and is profitable for United. So much so, that we are expanding Ted to 56 aircraft this year, a 20 percent increase.

 

For the last 12 months, United is No. 1 in on-time performance among the network carriers and customer satisfaction ratings are running at all-time highs, thanks to the efforts of our employees.

 

We are challenging ourselves to do better work every day…to take a fresh look at everything we do…things that were done the same way for 30 years or more.

 

A program called FIT - for Fix, Improve, Transform - is making customer service, check-in and baggage handling more efficient and better.

 

We have outsourced work that we cannot do at a competitive cost… restructured how we sell our product … realigned our fleet … and built new relationships with partners.

 

We have focused on the things we do well to develop new revenue opportunities by bringing in work that we can do competitively.

 

United Cargo has been revamped and restructured, improving service levels and international scope. It is now contributing hundreds of millions of dollars to United’s bottom line on an annual basis and outperforming its plan.

 

Another great example is right here in San Francisco - the headquarters of United Services, our maintenance and engineering division.

 

We are engaging technicians, engineers and management in streamlining maintenance operations. Maintenance of engines, landing gear and avionics, provided to a growing list of customers, is an expanding revenue source for United, delivering high quality at competitive prices.

 

San Francisco is very important to United overall, and our 10,000 employees who live in the Bay Area. We know that providing the connectivity to the important economic growth areas in Asia and to global commerce worldwide is critical to San Francisco and to your businesses.

 

We have increased our service to Asia, adding important new destinations, including Vietnam, Beijing, new service to Nagoya, Japan, and additional service to Sydney, Australia.

 

We are determined to begin flying from San Francisco to Guangzhou, China, the heart of the Pearl River Delta, one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

 

Together with our Star Alliance partners, we can fly you to almost any place in the world to compete in the expanding global economy.

 

United is better positioned today than anyone thought remotely possible three years ago. We have earned the opportunity to compete and we are moving forward.

 

All that we have accomplished so far says a great deal about who we are today: one company, committed to doing good work, focused on our customers and on competing in a way that is distinctly United.

 

Perhaps our most important accomplishment is that we have proven, over and over again, during the last three years, that we have the ability to meet whatever challenges this very volatile industry may encounter in the future.

 

Facing the facts, calling the question and following through on the tough decisions has become a way of life at United.

 

Three years ago, Northwest had one of the lowest cost structures and Delta had one of the strongest balance sheets of the major network carriers.

 

Today, they are heading into Chapter 11 as we are heading out … and many of our competitors - both in bankruptcy and out - are now just confronting the work that we have already done.

 

United will continue to meet our challenges head-on, confronting reality with real solutions, making the decisions that are right for United, our employees, our customers and our investors.

Edited October 26, 2005 by cowboy

[Soi7 1]

Cowboy,

 

Is this available in Paperback ?

[cowboy 0]

maybe cliff notes??

[brotherbuzz 3,178]

Tengotodo,

 

Your first bitch should be with your TA. Up to them to make sure you are taken care of.

 

If you want you can post your problem in the proper forums (Delta KAL etc.) at http://www.flyertalk.com/

It's a miles site but the folks there have dealt with most every problem and can possibly guide you to getting some compensation.

 

Chock dee and enjoy your trip.

[BigDUSA 71]

Good advice from brotherbuzz. I'd write a letter to CEO of Delta and pitch a bitch. You have a confirmed reservation that's paid for.

 

I flew UA over and Thai back. What a difference in service. Thai was the winner in all aspects. Way better food. They came around with wine 4 times. I had steak back in the cheap seats. They gave out tooth brush and paste if you needed it. UA squat. If UA wasn't so convenient from Philly..........

[partyanimal 0]

Big D, did u take the non-stop to JFK?

 

if so, how full was the plane? are the armrests removable?

[BigDUSA 71]

Big D, did u take the non-stop to JFK?

 

if so, how full was the plane? are the armrests removable?

I flew to LAX via Japan. Thai is running a special fare from JFK. Check travelzoo.com