Selling your UK house to move to LOS?

[grs90 49]

Gus

 

Based on everything I've read here & elsewhere I reckon I would need £1000 (70,000baht) a month to have a minimum acceptable standard of living in Pattaya. So I really don't think you have enough money to just quit the UK at the moment. Having said that, you also don't have a lot to live on if you stay in the UK. At the rates you mention you probably only earn enough to cover expenses and when you stop work you will be on the breadline. I'm assuming here that you have no pension other than the state one that will kick in at 65.

 

Plan 1

If you move to Thailand now, live reasonably using just your lump sum, you will probably be broke before you are 70. You'll probably still have your faculties intact, and will have a miserable ten plus years living in the UK in poverty until you either drop dead, top yourself, or become too senile to care.

 

Plan 2

So the best advice would probably be to stay in the UK until retirement age, work and earn as much as you can, then move to Thailand at age 65 with your £150K still intact or better, and at least some income (about £3600 a year as a single pensioner I think??) coming in. You could probably then have comfortable 15 to 20 years in Thailand, taking you well in to your eighties. You may have died happy by then, otherwise its join that flying club or return to the UK with your memories and live/die on the state.

 

The biggest problem with thid plan is you'll be as miserable as fuck for the next several years and could drop dead before you have a chance to spend your money.

 

Plan 3

So, overall, I think I would do something like this. Not sure where you're located in the UK but if you can buy a property, say a 2 bedroom house or flat for about £120k then you can live in that while you are in the UK and rent it out while you are in Thailand. Spend, say, 8 months in Thailand @ about £1000 a month and live/work in the UK for the other 4 months. The 4 months working should be more bearable if you know you have another 8 month break coming up.

 

You should clear, after costs, about £350 a month in rent while you are not using the place yourself. If you rent it out for 6 of the 8 months this will get you an income of £2100 to offset against the cost of living in Thailand. Providing you can balance your cost and income while you are back in the UK your lump sum will reduce by around £6000 or so each year but hopefully this will be partly or fully offset by growth in the property price.

 

At age 65 you can reassess your situation. Your 8 months per year, for the next several years, in Thailand will not have diminished your pot of cash too dramatically and, like the second choice above, will probably last you well in to your 80s.

 

The above is just my view. Its full of assumptions. It takes no account of any health issues you may have; it assumes you have no problems renting out a property and that you can get work whenever you come back to the UK. There's probably loads of issues and costs that I have overlooked. In my opinion the important thing is to keep your options open and not just blow your cash too early so it would be plan 2 or 3 for me.

 

Cheers

Gray

 

PS. Just re-read my reply above and hope it doesn't sound too condescending - its not intended to be. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Eneukman 1]

If a property has been your sole/main residence throughout its ownership to date, usually you then have 3 years in which to sell it without it affecting the tax free status of any gain on sale. You can rent it out, do whatever you want, in that 3 years. That applies whether you are resident in the UK or not.

 

If you are not resident in the UK, prima facie, you are not liable to capital gains tax (except on certain business assets located in the UK). However, to stop people avoiding CGT by becoming non-resident, a few years back they introduced some legislation which, broadly, will catch gains you make in the 5 years after you cease to be UK resident on assets you owned when you left.

 

So, if you sell within 3 years of leaving the UK (and stopping living in your UK property), no problem. If you sell after you have been non-UK resident for 5 years, no problem. The issue is if you sell in the gap in between. But even then there are exemptions and reliefs which will reduce (possibly to zero) the gain on which CGT is charged.

 

Incidentally, if you do have to pay CGT, it is not a matter of taking the value of the house on departure from the UK. The gain is time-apportioned pro-rata over the years of ownership. So the market might have risen hugely when you were in the UK but have been flat since you left and you could still be looking at a CGT bill.

Bazle,

 

My understanding of the position is that you are only liable for gains made on assets sold after you left the UK but held whilst you were still in the UK if you return to the UK within 5 years of leaving.

 

It is a point to be aware of though especially as I will be making a large gain next year on which I have no desire whatsoever to pay capital gains tax.

 

Alan

[rkt 0]

I've just reread the thread, sorry about the £400.00 a week post, I meant a month.

 

A friend of mine sold his house 5 years ago for 45k and moved to Pattaya with 30k.

 

It lasted him 12 months, he now lives in a council flat in Bolton.

 

If he'd rented it out he would still have his house and today it would be worth about 150k.

 

[wacmedia 277]

If he'd rented it out he would still have his house and today it would be worth about 150k.

 

Hi,

 

Decisions, decisions. Seemed a bad idea to move with that amount, unless he had an income coming in. Did he ever try justify the move to you ?

[Owen` 2]

Always interesting to me to read the UK money threads. Similarities and differences to the US. Both similarities and differences tend to be surprising.

 

My 2 cents:

 

1) Everyone's impression of how good an idea is for investment, specifically rental real estate, derives from their own personal database. Did you try it in the past and hit it big? Did you try it in the past and have your tenants destroy the place and then leave without paying? In the US, anyway, there is NO central database clearing house on rental real estate success statistics. There is no way to assess probabilities on this.

 

2) If you are trying to stretch a lump sum of money 30 yrs, you probably can't spend more than 4-5% per year of it in the first year, increasing that amount by inflation each year, and have it survive the 30 yrs. The operative word in that is "probably". The calculation is based on history, which may not repeat.

 

3) With regard to 2) . . . it is just as bad to under spend as overspend. You may think it would be bad to find yourself age 72 and flat broke with some government poverty program feeding you until you die. But would this be truly worse than to look in the mirror and see a man 85 yrs old with $8 million in assets? What do you say to him? "Sorry, miscalculated, won't happen again"? That's about 20-30 yrs of partying you could have done and didn't.

 

4) You UK guys, I know you have national health care, but is that true outside the UK? If not and you have to buy insurance, will the UK reimburse you? The US has national health care, but it doesn't trigger until age 65 (it's called Medicare). Unfortunately it will not send money outside the US. I am mentioning this because pretty much all retirement scenarios lean very heavily on some medical expense estimate. Inflation on medical costs runs about 3X the overall rate.

[sinbinjack 243]

Hi Owen , just a couple of things (I am no expert just my personal experience)in th UK we do have as you say the National Health service and most working class men don't think about medical insurance as its always provided by the state ,so sometimes they forget it when planning to move overseas. The second point I make is that rental returns are much higher in the UK than (I believe)in the USA,here it is possible (with the right property in the right place)to buy a property and rent it out and still make a small profit,the people who leave your home in a crap state are unfortunately always with us but judicial selection (and large safety deposits) will reduce this dramatically. My own home (worth £110000-£130000)would rent about £650 per month furnished which is almost enough on its own to fund a reasonable life in Pattaya,and would leave me with an appreciating asset, the ratio of rent to purchase price could change but not overnight,also I could rent out 2 double rooms to nurses or some other single renters leaving my son the rest of the house to live in and I would get £75-£85 per week each room,so from my point of view it would make no sense to sell my asset and live on the diminishing returns.

PS happy new year

[Bazle 1,428]

..... rental returns are much higher in the UK than (I believe) in the USA.  Here it is possible (with the right property in the right place) to buy a property and rent it out and still make a small profit.  The people who leave your home in a crap state are, unfortunately, always with us but judicial selection (and large safety deposits) will reduce this dramatically.

 

My own home (worth £110,000-£130,000) would rent about £650 per month, furnished, which is almost enough on its own to fund a reasonable life in Pattaya, and would leave me with an appreciating asset.  The ratio of rent to purchase price could change but not overnight; also I could rent out 2 double rooms to nurses, or some other single renters, leaving my son the rest of the house to live in and I would get £75-£85 per week for each room, so, from my point of view, it would make no sense to sell my asset and live on the diminishing returns.

It is again necessary to mention that tax has to be taken into account. That £650 per month, less allowable expenses, would be liable to tax in the UK. You have to balance the return on this investment (circa £120K) with that on the money being put in an offshore bank account where it is quite possible that the interest would be tax-free. Also, you will have seen on the news that the stock market out-performed the housing market in 2005; and, no-one is being bullish about house prices over the next few years.

 

I suspect you are being strongly influenced by your son. From his point of view, he either gets turfed-out or gets to live with a couple of nurses .

[sinbinjack 243]

Hi bazle there is I believe a £95 per week allowance before tax if you rent out a room in your home and then the expenses to run the home can be prorated to reduce the tax burden quite considerably.

 

edited to add

If I dont worry about my son who else will ,and wont he just love me if I set him up with a couple of stunners within arms length.. But seriously he will keep me in the house for legal reasons and also pay the costs of the house when I was not there,as I would never give up my life here in the UK entirely, even for the paradise that is LOS

Edited January 2, 2006 by sinbinjack

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Think sinbinjack still has right handle on the situation.

[Bazle 1,428]

.... I would never give up my life here in the UK entirely, even for the paradise that is LOS

Ah well - that puts a different complexion on the matter! I thought the discussion was about some-one moving to LOS full-time and whether he should or should not sell his previous home.

 

If you are not moving abroad full-time, you obviously need to maintain a base in the UK and, in your situation, it appears to make perfect sense to think the way you are doing.

[sinbinjack 243]

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, but even if I was to stay full time in LOS I would not sell my house,as it would still be the same economic argument in either case. If I was to maintain a permanent address in the UK ,given my circumstances I would be much better off .

PS. I hope to spend 4/5 months in LOS every year until I am of an age to retire,11years till 65 but possible at 60 and the money would come from the renting of my home (or part of it at least)

Edited January 2, 2006 by sinbinjack

[rkt 0]

Hi,

 

Decisions, decisions. Seemed a bad idea to move with that amount, unless he had an income coming in. Did he ever try justify the move to you ?

He moved in march 2001 after spending 2 weeks in Pattaya the previous Dec.

 

He is in Pattaya now for 2 months with his sponcered girlfriend (wife) Dow.

 

He thought he could make a living in Pattaya ,and play Mr big, but he never came up with any money making schemes!!

 

He's second on the right with dow stood by him.

 

 

[vanhalen 0]

Bollox to it all ........... i am selling up here in the UK and moving to Pattaya July 2007.

 

Make a living trading the stockmarket

 

If it all goes tit's then at least i wont be stewing for the rest of my life thinking .... if only !!!

 

A one way ticket to oblivion for me

 

UK taxes ........................

Edited January 5, 2006 by vanhalen

[jimrobo 0]

You forgot the capital gains tax on rental income 40% soon maybe 75% if Gorden gets his way.

you don't pay capital gains tax on your first house.

[Eneukman 1]

you don't pay capital gains tax on your first house.

Are you sure of that?

 

You don't pay Capital Gains Tax on your principle private residence, which is very different. If you have more than one home, you can elect which one is to be treated as your main residence though if you move abroad to live and buy a house in the foreign country, you could find it very difficult to convince the Inland Revenue that your home in the UK should be treated as your principle private residence.

 

Alan

[Owen` 2]

Bollox to it all ........... i am selling up here in the UK and moving to Pattaya July 2007.

 

Make a living trading the stockmarket

 

If it all goes tit's then at least i wont be stewing for the rest of my life thinking .... if only !!!

 

A one way ticket to oblivion for me

 

I'll probably regret this, but what the hell.

 

1) Sounds like your plan is to be up all night 5 nights a week working, when the bars are open. Unless you are going to trade the Asian markets.

 

2) Trading for a living -- still equates to investment return norms. If you get 10% on your money, you are doing so with a lot of risk that may translate into loss, not 10% gain. "Trading" is still investing and the standard numbers still apply. If a "living" requires you to get 20% on your money each year, you odds are not good.

 

3) Will Thai law call this "working"? If so, does this mean you need a work visa?

[mike100 0]

Kept out of this discussion until now.

 

I sold my house in the UK over three years ago for £210 grand, with £37 grand left on the mortgage, but an endowment payback (cashed in early) of £25 grand.

 

The interest payments at 4.5 % (tax free) banked with an Egg B/S has so far kept me living happily here ever since without having to touch my capital, apart from a couple of reasonable property purchases in Los.

 

Please no flames about me ever moving back to the UK, I would never want to.

 

Mike.

[sinbinjack 243]

Kept out of this discussion until now.

 

I sold my house in the UK over three years ago for £210 grand, with £37 grand left on the mortgage, but an endowment payback (cashed in early) of £25 grand.

 

The interest payments at 4.5 % (tax free) banked with an Egg B/S has so far kept me living happily here ever since without having to touch my capital, apart from a couple of reasonable property purchases in Los.

 

Please no flames about me ever moving back to the UK, I would never want to.

 

Mike.

well done mate it only goes to show that it can be done and all those very rich guys that say it cant are wrong .

Edited January 8, 2006 by sinbinjack

[vanhalen 0]

Owen

 

The UK stock markets open at approximately 2.00pm and close at 10.30pm thailand times depending on British summer time movements.

 

Therefore beach in the morning, daytrading in the afternoon and relaxation during the late evening.

 

I have some great contacts within the city square mile which will keep me abreast of the movers so hope to be succesfully trading. Dont get me wrong ... i have been caught with crucifying share drops in the past so know the risks involved but can't bear another 2 years working within the crap liberal system we have in place here in the UK. The thought of staring at miserable faces going to work each morning fills me with horror. I can't stand it no more !!!

 

I have done three practice runs in the past and trading live on the internet with thai girly on the knee is not to be beaten

 

I expect to be doing the ususal visa runs each month also.

 

Kind regards and take good care

 

Andy

Edited January 6, 2006 by vanhalen

[marleyboy 140]

well i for one cant wait till i retire! already got a house in pattaya (even though im 14 years away from retirement!) im not too certain if ill sell up in the uk when i retire (mind you im married -if i was single id sell up for sure and use a friends adress for mail etc!) i probalbly wont sell up and just spend 6 months or so over there each year, ive seen some posts on this thread where folk mention a minimum of £1,000 a month, there are lots of people in the uk who would love to have a £1,000 a month to live on! everybody lives differently , obviously! but if i had a grand a month to live in pattaya id be hard pressed to spend that amount! bearing in mind i for one anyway couldnt go out on the piss every night! anyway just my opinion on this! and for anyone who has the chance ro live in thailand . just do it! if i was single id be there by now!

[pattysteve 34]

Im with u Marley,

 

Hopefully by late 2006 ill be living in Patters,also agree that £1000 a month is more than enough its my budget but dont expect to spend it all.Sure enough if ur in holiday mode its a lil different,but u cant live in that mode 7 days a week 52 wks a year.

 

My plan is to live in a hotel, ive picked it already and expect to get a price around 150000B a yr.12 mnths ago i was adamant id buy a place,but now im all for hotel living...no worries about security,no cleaning,laundry sorted at reception and no other bills to worry about ahhhhhhhhhh heaven indeed.

 

So maybe ill meet a few of the board members laters.

[Owen` 2]

I have some great contacts within the city square mile which will keep me abreast of the movers so hope to be succesfully trading. Dont get me wrong ... i have been caught with crucifying share drops in the past so know the risks involved but can't bear another 2 years working within the crap liberal system we have in place here in the UK. The thought of staring at miserable faces going to work each morning fills me with horror. I can't stand it no more !!!

 

Hope it works out.

 

As for visa runs, I was alluding to the reality that what we call "daytrading" in the US might be called "working" in Thailand. Might require different kind of visa. Shrug.

[wacmedia 277]

I sold my house in the UK over three years ago for £210 grand, with £37 grand left on the mortgage, but an endowment payback (cashed in early) of £25 grand.

 

Hi

 

If I was in same situation I would do same. There are lots of questions, but a large factor is how pissed off you are with your life at the moment !! I'd take the chance.