How much to live on in Pattaya?

[valley boy 0]

I'm struggling to get my head around Eneukman's figures of 80,000 a month.At an exchange rate of 70 baht to the £, thats approx £1,140 per month

It doesn't cost me that much to live over here

There is a post at the top of this page that offers a condo for 8000 a month.Factor in another 2000 for electricity and water to take it up to 10,000.1,200 three times a week for a bar girl is another 14,400 per month,taking you up to 24.5k.Where does the other 50k plus go,after all, food and drink are cheap enough in pattaya.

Surely 80k must be living very well

[Badtz 0]

Electric for me (a 7b KWH) -800-4,500b

Motorbike Rental - 3,500b

Laundry (have live in) - 2-3000b

Cell phone (1-2 Call Cards) - 1500-2000b

Drinks (250-1000b @ day) - 7,500b - 30,000b

Cigarettes (55-110) - 1,650b - 3,300b

 

and misc shopping...up to you

 

EDIT: Just relooked at his figures. I'm spending a bit more on some things a bit less on others. 80,000 should be pretty easy to live off though. I know alot of people here living on 30-50k a month. If they had an extra 30k a month I'm sure they'd find a way to spend it.

Edited December 30, 2005 by Badtz

[Eneukman 1]

OK, here's a revised monthly budget though this month is a bit higher due to going a bit over the top on the sanuk side, but hey it's Christmas

 

Rent - 20,000 (1 bedroom in View Talay 2A)

 

Water - 280 (This month was 250 baht)

 

Electric - 1,200 (640 baht this month but that was with scarcely any use of the aircon)

 

Water, soft drinks, booze and food for the condo - 4,000 (within budget this month)

 

Telephone (land line & mobile) - 1,600 (The landline is used mainly for the internet. This month I am just within budget but most months I'm quite a bit below this figure)

 

Internet - 1,000 (usually well wthin this figure using CSLoxinfo dial up)

 

Health insurance - 2,700 (BUPA in-patient treatment only)

 

Eat out - 6,500 baht (I eat out every night, mainly Thai food but Farang food once a week on average. Most days' lunch is included in food for condo above but I do go to a restaurant for lunch a few times a month).

 

Drink out -12,000 (somehow just about on target this month )

 

Massage - 3,200 (due to a rib injury at the end of last month well within this figure this month - fortunately )

 

Laundry - 2,000 (usually a few hundred baht less than this)

 

Maid - 1,000 (3 or 4 times a month)

 

Incidentals (toiletries, condoms, books, CDs and anything else not covered in any other category) 5,000 (over budget this month but perhaps 1,000 baht could be regarded as one-off purchases)

 

Baht bus - 1,600 (going to be slightly over target this month but once my language lessons stop next month this figure could perhaps be reduced slightly)

 

Cialis - to comat the side effects of my blood pressure pills and a moderate consumption of alcohol - Still trying to get an average figure for this as there is a wide difference in price from 1,600 baht to 2,000 baht. Also, the availability (or otherwise) of generic Cialis. I was in a clinic a couple of days ago about an eye infection and asked about generic Cialis. They had some in stock so I bought a couple of packets at 800 baht each. That has pushed my expenditure on this essential item up quite a bit this month but next month's expenditure should be around 1/3rd)

 

Finally, sanuk - 15,000, including barfines. This allows for a couple of girls from go-gos. On average I barfine a girl roughly once every 3 days. (over budget this month

 

Add all this up and unless I've missed something out it should come to around 80,000 baht.

 

Of course, everyone is different and some are happy living in a small studio condo. A pool is essential for me as is the need to be close to a baht bus route.

 

I'm still revising my figures and some will be increased whilst others will be reduced.

 

On this budget I live well and don't really miss out on much, if anything.

 

Alan

[Owen` 2]

Let me start out by saying . . .

 

Eneukman is The Man. He posts superb cost of living data and he understands the idea of over/under budgeted amounts.

 

Note from his data the following (and Eneukman, clarify if I get this wrong):

 

1) I see 27000 baht spent last month at bars for beer and women. That is the predominant expenditure of his life. He seperates the beer and women in his description, and maybe that makes sense if he drinks some nights he doesn't barfine. That may not be the norm for other guys. I don't know. But combined . . . bars are the predominant expenditure for him. Even more than rent. I do suspect this will be true for everyone -- unless they follow another BM's advice about getting a list of mobile numbers of TGs to just call to come over and P4P. That might cut this cost in half, though the whole bar scene may be fun and missed.

 

2) An apology in advance for possibly an invasion of privacy, and ignore this if you like Eneukman, but you mentioned blood pressure pills and listed an in-patient only health insurance plan. What are your monthly meds bills? This has no bearing on other people other than the fact that medical costs are the primary focus of many retirement discussions outside LOS and the degree to which that is truly NOT true in LOS may be important. So I guess I'm asking are meds cheaper there?

 

3) Note this guy has a 1 bdrm condo at View Talay. NOT a studio. That 20K is not the barebones configuration. He bought himself some comfort.

 

4) Are your Thai lessons anywhere in this total?

 

5) I see all bahtbus for transport. Any occasion to pay for any other kind of transport off the bahtbus routes?

 

Great data, guy. This was a $2000 month for you and you had more fun than the rest of us in farangland.

[UncleSam 0]

I have seen many posts about how to figure out how much money one can spend per year after his retirement, but I haven't read any good answers yet.

 

Let's say you have $1,000,000 and you are withdrawing $50,000 a year. If your money earns 5% a year, you are withdrawing nothing but the interest amount. Therefore you can withdraw $50,000 per year forever without touching $1,000,000 (I know everyone here knows this). So you may want to withdraw more than $50,000 since you are not going to live forever.

 

Here is how to convert your large sum of money to an annual payment for your life time.

 

Let's say you have $1,000,000 at your retirement age (45, 55, 65).

 

If your money earns 4% per year (to be conservative), $1,000,000 will be worth around $53,000 per year if you start collection money from age 45, $61,000 if you start collecting from age 55, and $78,000 if you start collecting from age 65. If you are really interesting to know how to calculate this, please e-mail me. You won't be able to understand the calculations unless you are a mathematician or statistician.

 

Someone mentioned about running out of money. You can buy annuity contracts, then your monthly payment will be guaranteed for your life time. I am not a financial planner, so I don't know where to buy annuity contracts. I suppose you can buy them from life insurance companies like Prudential, Metlife, etc. You will have to pay some premium since those companies have to make profits.

 

I wouldn't worry about inflaction that much except medical inflation. Regular inflaction has been very low and it will remain low in the future in my humble opion. However, the medical inflation has been double digits for past several years. It's very important to include medical expense or medical insurance in your estimated yearly expense.

 

By the way, I am an actuary. I design and audit retirement systems for living.

 

Sam

[Owen` 2]

If your money earns 4% per year (to be conservative), $1,000,000 will be worth around $53,000 per year if you start collection money from age 45, $61,000 if you start collecting from age 55, and $78,000 if you start collecting from age 65. If you are really interesting to know how to calculate this, please e-mail me. You won't be able to understand the calculations unless you are a mathematician or statistician.

 

Sam, thanks for your input and I did note your credentials at the end of your post, but I think you've neglected an issue here. Namely, the years when you don't earn 4 or 5% on your money. Some years you lose money, be it in stocks or government bonds. LT government bonds fluctuate in price just like stocks. The annuities you mention are computed by Prudential or JP Morgan to address the realities of the Trinity Study. They aren't the pure drawdown you are describing.

 

That having been said, your paragraph above should inform BMs of the mechanism. Your lump sum supplies (on average, some years it loses) some percent return, but in addition to that you get to draw down the asset total with the intent being to hit either zero on the day of death, or some level above zero that you want to pass on as inheritance.

 

So 5% return on 1 mill does provide someone more than 50K if they are drawing down principal, and thinking purely in terms of fixed returns.

 

The Trinity Study showed how 4-5% is the right number to use, with an inflationary pay bump each year, to achieve good statistical probability of money survival over 30 years, using history as a guide to knowing how many years had negative returns on the portfolio and how many had positive returns. If you google Trinity and retirement, you'll find it pretty easily.

 

But seriously, thanks for the above paragraph. It does lay out the drawdown concept well. The closer you are to death, the more money you get to spend each year.

[UncleSam 0]

Owen, that's why I suggeted to buy an annuity contract. You exchange your lump sum money with series of payment for your life. Done.

 

Since you asked, my calculation was based on GATT assumption, which is the minimum value of your lump sum amount protected by IRS (Revenue Ruling 2001-62) when you elect lump sum payment option for your pension instead of electing life annuity. Life annuity is the product and interest and survivorship. It's an actuarial present value of series of future payments.

 

I have been consultanting over $3 trillion of retirement asset for 10 years, I have never heard Trinny study.

 

Owen, your posts are often insightful, informative, but I don't think you are finance person.

 

Sam

[Owen` 2]

Not gonna do dueling credentials.

 

Here's a website where the Trinity Study is referenced. It first appeared from Trinity University at AAII about 8 yrs ago as I recall. AAII has, of course, moved it to their membership area. You may be able to find the raw study somewhere online. I didn't look very long. It is so widely referenced that the variations on it tend to be more focused upon than the original. I don't know if the AAII site requires any money to register, but if not and you do register, you can find it there.

 

www.zunna.com

 

I don't know who Zunna.com is, but most folks in the equity markets know who the American Association of Individual Investors is.

 

If you search around Morningstar.com's website you'll find many references to Trinity and their work on sustainable withdrawal rates in retirement. There are many additions to the study that various academics have prepared to explore modifications to the asset allocation in the original work.

 

An automated website based on the work is fireseeker.com's excellent firecalc applet, reviewed favorably by the WSJ. It is based on the Trinity methodology of 130 years worth of real world, non-monte carlo emulation and it provides many options for adding or subtracting personal revenue streams at various points in time during a retirement. Lots of options for use of TIPS, Commercial Paper of varying maturity of government bonds for the non equity portion of asset allocation.

 

Enjoy.

[Emil 0]

Those revenue streams better be tax exempt or the taxman will want his share. Also, as I've mentioned before, if your retireing in a foreign country you have no control over the exchange rate if your income is from your home country.

[Owen` 2]

Those revenue streams better be tax exempt or the taxman will want his share. Also, as I've mentioned before, if your retireing in a foreign country you have no control over the exchange rate if your income is from your home country.

 

Yup. No question. Tht $50K from the millionaire will likely have some tax on it. That tax can be considered an addition to your cost of living.

 

Social Security gets special tax treatment and that would be one of the personal revenue streams about which to know the details. I don't know how it would be taxed if overseas and with only passive income. On my list of things to investigate. Another issue for Americans is medicare will kick in at age 65 and subsidize your medical costs, but as of now medicare won't send money outside the US.

 

Another thread addresses another issue if you're American. State income tax. Even if you leave the US, your last state of residence is entitled to tax your passive income. If you don't file there and refuse to pay, they can confiscate assets and have you arrested as a tax evader. You have to move to a zero state income tax locale like TX, FL, NV, WY, WA, AK, SD or NH before you jump to Thailand.

[Bazle 1,500]

Owen, that's why I suggeted to buy an annuity contract.  You exchange your lump sum money with series of payment for your life.  Done.

 

Sam

I was always under the impression that if you used a lump sum to buy an annuity and had an unfortunate meeting with a bus the following day, your money had gone and that's that. On the other hand, if you were fortunate enough to outlive your actuarial life expectancy, then the annuity would probably have worked out to be a good deal.

 

Personally, there is no way I'd want to buy an annuity. I'd prefer to hold on to control of the money - not that I'm concerned whether anyone inherits the money or not, but simply because I might need it for a totally unexpected reason.

Edited December 30, 2005 by Bazle

[Eneukman 1]

Let me start out by saying . . .

 

Eneukman is The Man. He posts superb cost of living data and he understands the idea of over/under budgeted amounts.

 

Note from his data the following (and Eneukman, clarify if I get this wrong):

 

1) I see 27000 baht spent last month at bars for beer and women. That is the predominant expenditure of his life. He seperates the beer and women in his description, and maybe that makes sense if he drinks some nights he doesn't barfine. That may not be the norm for other guys. I don't know. But combined . . . bars are the predominant expenditure for him. Even more than rent. I do suspect this will be true for everyone -- unless they follow another BM's advice about getting a list of mobile numbers of TGs to just call to come over and P4P. That might cut this cost in half, though the whole bar scene may be fun and missed.

 

2) An apology in advance for possibly an invasion of privacy, and ignore this if you like Eneukman, but you mentioned blood pressure pills and listed an in-patient only health insurance plan. What are your monthly meds bills? This has no bearing on other people other than the fact that medical costs are the primary focus of many retirement discussions outside LOS and the degree to which that is truly NOT true in LOS may be important. So I guess I'm asking are meds cheaper there?

 

3) Note this guy has a 1 bdrm condo at View Talay. NOT a studio. That 20K is not the barebones configuration. He bought himself some comfort.

 

4) Are your Thai lessons anywhere in this total?

 

5) I see all bahtbus for transport. Any occasion to pay for any other kind of transport off the bahtbus routes?

 

Great data, guy. This was a $2000 month for you and you had more fun than the rest of us in farangland.

Owen,

 

I'll try to answer your queries in the same order as you listed them.

 

1. Some nights I do go out for a drink and don't end up barfining a girl. Take last night as an extreme example. I had just barfined a girl (from Buriram) and she was getting changed into her "day" clothes when one of the other girls came over and told me she had just received some very bad news about her 4 year old daughter (I was aware that her daughter wasn't well) and had to go home. She was clearly upseet and as I've known for a bit now I gave her 1,000 baht to help her on her way.

 

There was no way that something like this could have been predicted. After that, I just could not move on and get another girl elsewhere. My bar fine was refunded and I paid my bill and walked to the end of Walking Street and popped into Lennie's for a quick drink but I was not really even up for that.

 

This month's costs for drinking out, bar fines and sanuk is on the high side and most months the total cost should be a few thousand baht lower.

 

2. I don't have a real idea about the cost of my medication costs. I bought 30 of the equivalent of Atenolol pills the other day at a cost of 75 baht. As they are 50mg rather than 25mg, I cut them in half so that's more or less a 2 month supply I bought. I was unable to find Bendrofluazide so when I went to the hospital for my medical check up for my retirement visa, I asked the doctor about this. He prescribed Dichlotride 50mg pills for me. I found I was having some problems with the effectiveness of Cialis so I now cut these in half as well. I can't remember what the pills cost (maybe 100 baht for 50) but certainly nothing to break my budget. So the total cost of pills must be under 100 baht per month.

 

3. Spot on. I can afford the extra comfort but if others ar happy in a studio, up to them.

 

4. No. I only have a further 8 lessons to go. Over the 6 months I've been here, an average of 2,300 baht or so would need to be added but I regard the cost of these as one-off expenditure in much the same way as the cost of the printer for my laptop and my (crappy) portable CD player. It's impossible to quantify these costs on a monthly basis and therefore there must be some flexibility in your budget to allow for these costs. My income is sufficiently above my expenditure that so long as I don't go over the top every month, it's not a concern for me though I can see these costs being a burden for those on a lower income.

 

5. I refuse point blank to go on the back of a motorbike in this town. I've seen the aftermath of too many accidents even in 6 months to want to take the risk. If I do want to go off the beaten track, I would probably chat to a (hopefully) friendly baht bus driver and see if I could hire him for a few hours. It would cost more but would be a lot safer.

 

The major cost I'm still trying to reconcile onto a monthly basis is my use of Cialis but there are many variables at work here. Can I find any generic Cialis? How often do I fail to barfine a girl 2 days in a row? and so on.

 

Everyone's expenditure will be different but I hope that my figures will give others something concrete on which to base their own figures along with their own experiences of visiting here on holiday. The most important factor in living here is to switch from tourist mode to ex-pat mode as quickly as you can. I also keep to more or less normal hours - get up around 8.45 in the morning and go to bed around midnight (a bit later if I have a bg with me )

 

Alan

[Eneukman 1]

I was always under the impression that if you used a lump sum to buy an annuity and had an unfortunate meeting with a bus the following day, your money had gone and that's that. On the other hand, if you were fortunate enough to outlive your actuarial life expectancy, then the annuity would probably have worked out to be a good deal.

 

Personally, there is no way I'd want to buy an annuity. I'd prefer to hold on to control of the money - not that I'm concerned whether anyone inherits the money or not, but simply because I might need it for a totally unexpected reason.

Generally speaking, yes. Annuity contracts do often end on death but some will guarantee a payout for a minimum period, say 3 years or 5 years. Payment may be made either to your estate (in which case the payments still to be made will have a (discounted) value for Inheritance Tax purposes). Alternatively, payment can be made to a nominated person if you had made an election when te policy was taken out.

 

Once I reach 60, I will have 2 occupational pensions and will have no alternative but to buy an annuity for the 2nd one. The sums involved in this pension will be very small as contributions were only made over a 3 year period (albeit my 3 highest earning years) so it's not a concern for me.

 

My existing pension is index-linked and was based on my final salary when my job was outsourced.

 

The bulk of my funds have been invested on the stock exchange and I keep a weekly check on prices via the Investors Chronicle web-site. In addition, I review their most recent recommendations on the stocks held a few times a year.

 

Alan

[irishman 0]

You know, this topic has been beaten to death and the reason is obvious. No 2 people are the same. Soi 7 is happy and getting by on 20k a month but I wouldn't be happy with 5 times that.

 

It's all dependent on your lifestyle and what you are used to. To try and plan is good but really you need to come over and actually try and live here for 6 months or so. Then you will get a real feeling for what is available and what you will have to do without. Everyone has to give up something to live here and for some, living here is just ot comfortable. You need to come, experience it, and decide for yourself.

 

Cheers

[wacmedia 277]

Soi 7 is happy and getting by on 20k a month but I wouldn't be happy with 5 times that.

 

Hi

 

One important thing you guys dont factor in is the availability of nice female company when the need arises. IMO this is a big plus as when you become a mature gentleman like me the availability drops off in farangland. I'm sure the guys on a 60/80 baht budget have much more pleasant female company than they would in farangland.

[Owen` 2]

One important thing you guys dont factor in is the availability of nice female company when the need arises. biggrin.gif IMO this is a big plus as when you become a mature gentleman like me the availability drops off in farangland. cry2.gif I'm sure the guys on a 60/80 baht budget have much more pleasant female company than they would in farangland.

 

Well, yeah.

 

Personally, I've reached inner peace with my reasons for thinking of Pattaya as a retirement residence. The line between gf and prostitute is blurred a great deal by how the formula works in Pattaya. Think about all the guys that talk about their "live in". What exactly does that mean? Is she a gf or a prostitute?

 

Who hasn't given a gf money in the course of their lives? Want to make it even more clear? Would you give money to a "gf" with whom you had not yet slept?

[cnkbud 0]

Hi guys,

Like some have said here, this subj has been beat to death over and over but it still goes on, and for one, I hope it all continues as for any of us who dreams of living there permanently it provides great data based on real life experiences which are invaluable for formulating a budget based on whatever financial resources one might have. All of you have some great points, and all of you are

"the man", about money management for enjoyng life there. I quess what it boils down to is how much is how much do you have for sanuk after basic living expenses and take it from there, many others here have said it much better than I ever can. After all, isn't that really the one and only reason you're there. Being an old f...... whose sex drive is limited, that would be the only reason I would be there, and it don't take that much to make me happy, but I'd still be better off than staying in swampland here, enough said. Now, having said all that for whatever it's worth, probably not much. As for financial management, one can buy a currency future/option and X amount of $'s if you're smart enough to forecast which way the $ will go; interest rates are highly subject to which way the economy is going, power plays by world governments such as China, and of course terrorist attacks, natural disasters, etc., who knows what will happen in the future so just keep enough in reserve to enoy that next samuk. Thanks for viewing this bit of my nonsense guys. Have a good one and enjoy. The best to all of you in "06". Old Bud

[chas 16]

Alan

You can get Tadalis at the pharmacy which is on 2nd Road on the same side and just to the north of Tim's Beer Bar/GoGo. The lady offers a discount for quantity which I blushingly refuse as I'm only buying them for a friend I'm sorry I can't remember the price but a lot less than Cialis and they have the same effect.

Patrick

[Emil 0]

The line between gf and prostitute is blurred a great deal by how the formula works in Pattaya. Think about all the guys that talk about their "live in". What exactly does that mean? Is she a gf or a prostitute?

Like everything else, this can vary. At one end of the spectrum you have a TGF who doesn't work or has a non related sex job, who cooks for you , does the laundry and cleans your place. At the other end you have a TG who has all her stuff at your place and sleeps there when she doesn't have a customer. You shag her on the nights she doesn't have a customer or in the afternoon after she has left her last customer and before she heads to work. For you in this case, its strictly a good shag for cheaper price.

[Owen` 2]

The line between gf and prostitute is blurred a great deal by how the formula works in Pattaya. Think about all the guys that talk about their "live in". What exactly does that mean? Is she a gf or a prostitute?

 

Like everything else, this can vary. At one end of the spectrum you have a TGF who doesn't work or has a non related sex job, who cooks for you , does the laundry and cleans your place. At the other end you have a TG who has all her stuff at your place and sleeps there when she doesn't have a customer. You shag her on the nights she doesn't have a customer or in the afternoon after she has left her last customer and before she heads to work. For you in this case, its strictly a good shag for cheaper price.

 

She has a non sex related job, cooks for you, does the laundry and cleans the place . . . and you pay her nothing?

 

I can't see that, but I have not lived in Thailand and maybe the women are that willing to devote themselves that much to their man. I would suspect, rather, that she cooks for you, does the laundry and cleans the place. . . . . and sleeps there, with you, getting free room and board, and you give her money for the grocery shopping -- perhaps 500 baht for a 350 baht expense -- and she keeps the change, and you give her spending money to augment her job when she's low from sending money north, which will be every month.

 

Is she a prostitute? Nah, she's a gf, and a helluva lot better a gf than you'll find in farangland.

 

The second one you described . . . she's a roomate you boink now and then. She happens to be a prostitute, too.

 

We're afield here, though. The threads on how much a live-in costs are elsewhere.

[Emil 0]

. . . and you pay her nothing?

I never said you don't pay them. In both cases you pay them an agreed upon amount.

[Eneukman 1]

Alan

You can get Tadalis at the pharmacy which is on 2nd Road on the same side and just to the north of Tim's Beer Bar/GoGo. The lady offers a discount for quantity which I blushingly refuse as I'm only buying them for a friend I'm sorry I can't remember the price but a lot less than Cialis and they have the same effect.

Patrick

Thanks for that tip, Patrick. I'll check them out when I need to renew my supplies. The problem I've had is finding a pharmacy that has a consistent supply of generic Cialis. The most recent one I found sold generic Cialis at 800 baht for a pack of 4 so I bought 2 packets.

 

Alan

[carlew 0]

It is that long ago I forgot I even asked the question.But to those who gave the time to comment on some sort of prices I thank you very much for your time.