Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[joekicker 53]

The guy that does the blog has a very good reputation and has been spot on with his previous articles so I would think that the article is a pretty fair assessment of where things are.

 

Totally agree with that. He seems to have a lot of facts, very good background and a distinct air of "let the facts speak for themselves." I like reports that let me make up my mind. This is definitely one, and the blog is excellent in general.

[TheFiend 1,181]

If you read posts by BigD, MrMango and Scally everything in the world of the 787 is rosy, there are no delays, and Boeing is not having production problems.

 

Reading that blog tells us otherwise

 

As for the May 2008 delivery to the first customer, that is looking more and more like that it will be delayed

 

Sits back and waits for a rebuff about A380 delays and the European taxpayers getting by Airbus

[joekicker 53]

If you read posts by BigD, MrMango and Scally everything in the world of the 787 is rosy, there are no delays, and Boeing is not having production problems.

 

And if I read posts by ... um, certain other people I am equally well informed about exactly the opposite, and only the opposite. Unremittingly.

 

And not a single poster has any influence over whether Boeing doesn't or it does. I'm sorry, but to me, it's like bragging/bitxhing about your ancestors. None of us deserves any credit/blame for what happened when we weren't even alive.

 

I'd rather know the facts of what's going on in the business of making inanimate objects. I don't even see the point of showing a flag, let alone waving it.

 

But most folks here disagree. No boblum. Everyone needs an obsession. Please. Resume your bickering. I may drop by and collect blood from time to time.

[TheFiend 1,181]

And if I read posts by ... um, certain other people I am equally well informed about exactly the opposite, and only the opposite. Unremittingly.

 

And not a single poster has any influence over whether Boeing doesn't or it does. I'm sorry, but to me, it's like bragging/bitxhing about your ancestors. None of us deserves any credit/blame for what happened when we weren't even alive.

 

I'd rather know the facts of what's going on in the business of making inanimate objects. I don't even see the point of showing a flag, let alone waving it.

 

JoeK, those certain other people are just rebuffing BigDs, Mangos and Scallys persistent bragging about superdooper Boeing.

 

As for your comment about flag waving....... I agree! I don't see myself as "British Citizen" anymore... I see myself more as being a "European Citizen", and a "Global Citizen".

[joekicker 53]

As for your comment about flag waving....... I agree! I don't see myself as "British Citizen" anymore... I see myself more as being a "European Citizen", and a "Global Citizen".

 

Just to be clear, I don't mind a little nationalist fervour, but horses-for-courses and all. This subject is just airplanes fer crissakes.

 

As I say, everyone has a hobby horse and for a lot of people it's the companies who make airplanes, apparently. Me, I can get emotional about the actual birds, but not the People In Suits responsible for them, whatever accent they have. But again, that's me. If people have to go at it, they have to, I guess. Lord knows I own a couple of hobby horses, just different ones. I'm not complaining, just saying.

 

I take your flag comment. I can be a very nationalist person at times; at others I'm global or better. I think one of the very bad habits I got out of some time ago was getting mad at PEOPLE because of their nationality, even the nationalistic ones from countries who governments I despise. I try to stay pixxed, if I must be pixxed at all, at the leaders who made the countries that way. Most people are pretty decent and some people are absolute dregs who should have been suffocated some time ago -- wherever you go. There's no country without prisons because there's no country without cretinous axxholes.

Edited September 4, 2007 by joekicker

[wacmedia 277]

Wow, you're going to be around, too? That's great. I know people who have just given up on being here in thousands of years from now, the losers.

 

Hi,

 

I'll be everywhere. Wherever there's an airplane, I'll be there. My body may have decayed but my spirit will live on. When is this damn plane going to fly ?

[eltib 54]

Try to remember that's Thai Airways.

The same guys who can't back-up a A380 "loaner" without dinging the wing!

 

Probably hired directly from the Motorbike taxi drivers off Soi Lucky Star.

Edited September 4, 2007 by eltib

[CheshireTom 1,377]

An excellent update today by Joe's flightblogger link ahead of the Boeing announcement later today............

 

http://flightblogger.blogspot.com/

 

As of print date, Boeing continues to progress with structural work as Dreamliner One prepares for its flight test program. Wiring and systems installation have not yet begun.

Edited September 5, 2007 by CheshireTom

[TheFiend 1,181]

Temporary fasteners....... lol!!!!

 

The big question is will Boeing today finally admit it is experiencing problems with the 787 Project?

[nidnoyham 30]

The Spitfire, now that was leading edge, as was the ME109. P'raps we need a war to hurry things along a bit ?

Edited September 5, 2007 by nidnoyham

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Temporary fasteners....... lol!!!!

 

The big question is will Boeing today finally admit it is experiencing problems with the 787 Project?

 

The reality is that the plane they "rolled out" on 8 July was actually held together with screw fittings bought from the US version of the local B&Q ..............

 

Flightblogger has learned that many of the temporary fasteners, which were painted red and installed in place of flightworthy parts, were purchased from run-of-the-mill chain hardware stores, including Home Depot and Ace Hardware.

 

The use of hardware store parts has been confirmed by multiple sources working directly with the aircraft at assembly sites in both Everett, Wa. and Charleston, S.C.

 

 

The Spitfire, now that was leading edge, as was the ME109. P'raps we need a war to hurry things along a bit ?

 

A war? When did the Yanks last turn up on time.

 

The military version of Ole Gunner Solskjaer .......... they come on for the last ten minutes and try to take all the credit for scoring the winning goal.

[TheFiend 1,181]

The reality is that the plane they "rolled out" on 8 July was actually held together with screw fittings bought from the US version of the local B&Q ..............

 

You would have thought that a "world class" company such as Boeing would be able to get the right parts delivered at the right time without having to rush out to panic buy fasteners from a local hardware store.... the importance of meeting the 7/8/7 deadline for unveiling was so important for their publicity machine!!

[Samsonite 181]

Boeing says 787 won't fly before mid-November

 

By Seattle Times staff

 

UPDATE - 08:07 AM

 

Boeing will delay the first flight of its 787 Dreamliner by six weeks or more, executives said on a conference call this morning.

 

The new target date for first flight is "somewhere in the mid-November to mid-December range," said Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO Scott Carson.

 

He said the delivery date of the first plane remains unchanged. "The plan we are now working still supports first delivery in May 2008."

 

Carson assured analysts that "there will be no impact on our current financial guidance."

 

As recently as July, Boeing CEO Jim McNerney said first flight would occur at the end of September, or a few days into October.

 

Mike Bair, chief of the 787 program, said the changing schedule "adds pressure and some increased risk" to the delivery date for the first plane.

 

He said the company has encountered two problems in completing the first airplane. One is the amount of "traveled work" wiring and systems installation that was not completed on time by Boeing's global suppliers before they shipped major airframe sections to the final assembly plant in Everett. The other snag is the flight control system software, which Bair said "is now slated for completion and delivery later this month to integration labs."

 

Despite the snags, Carson noted that Boeing has logged 258 sales this year, bringing the total to 706 total orders from 48 airlines.

 

 

Copyright © 2007 The Seattle Times Company

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/boei...787delay05.html

Edited September 5, 2007 by Scalawag

[TheFiend 1,181]

Boeing says 787 won't fly before mid-November

 

By Seattle Times staff

 

UPDATE - 08:07 AM

Boeing will delay the first flight of its 787 Dreamliner by six weeks or more, executives said on a conference call this morning.

 

The new target date for first flight is "somewhere in the mid-November to mid-December range," said Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO Scott Carson.

 

He said the delivery date of the first plane remains unchanged. "The plan we are now working still supports first delivery in May 2008."

 

As recently as July, Boeing CEO Jim McNerney said first flight would occur at the end of September, or a few days into October.

 

Mike Bair, chief of the 787 program, said the changing schedule "adds pressure and some increased risk" to the delivery date for the first plane.

 

He said the company has encountered two problems in completing the first airplane. One is the amount of "traveled work" wiring and systems installation that was not completed on time by Boeing's global suppliers before they shipped major airframe sections to the final assembly plant in Everett. The other snag is the flight control system software, which Bair said "is now slated for completion and delivery later this month to integration labs."

Looks like Boeing are starting to admit they have set targets they will struggle to achieve.

 

And it looks like a case of the slippery shoulders, trying to put the blame on the suppliers.

 

As for control system software...... Well, I work with control systems.... If they think the software will be completed, tested fully and completely bug free by the time it is delivered then they are really living ain a dream world.

[Samsonite 181]

 

Boeing, Aeroflot Finalize Order for 22 787 Dreamliners

 

SEATTLE, Sept. 05, 2007 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Aeroflot, Russia's flagship carrier based in Moscow, today announced they have finalized an order for 22 Boeing 787-8s. The order was contingent upon Aeroflot shareholder approval, which was granted yesterday. The order is valued at $3.6 billion at list prices.

 

Aeroflot said the 787 will upgrade its existing widebody fleet, as well as provide for fleet growth to meet increased demand for air travel.

 

"The 787 is an excellent match for many of our requirements thanks to its efficiency, operational performance and passenger comfort. The 787 will open new market opportunities as we further modernize our fleet and expand our international reach," said Valery Okulov, Aeroflot general director.

 

Aeroflot did not announce an engine selection for its 787s.

 

"Throughout the process we worked closely with Aeroflot to understand its requirements and to demonstrate how the 787 meets those requirements," said Craig Jones, vice president of Sales for Russia and Central Asia, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "The 787 will reinforce Aeroflot's leadership position. It will be a tool for profitability and help Aeroflot offer an all-new passenger experience to its customers."

 

Boeing developed the 787 for the mid-sized jetliner market, estimated at 3,500 aircraft over the next 20 years. Fifty percent of the 787's primary structure is made of advanced carbon composites which allow higher cabin humidity, a lower cabin altitude and the largest windows in the industry.

 

High-efficiency engines combined with a lighter airframe and improved aerodynamics will enable the 787 to produce seat-mile costs normally associated with much larger aircraft.

 

In addition to bringing big-jet ranges to mid-size airplanes, the 787 will provide airlines with unmatched fuel efficiency, resulting in exceptional environmental performance. The airplane will use 20 percent less fuel for comparable missions than any similarly-sized airplane. It will also travel at speeds similar to today's fastest widebodies, Mach 0.85. Also, airlines will enjoy more cargo revenue capacity.

 

Boeing has logged 706 orders from 48 customers for the 787 Dreamliner.

###

[eltib 54]

Wow!!! November now? Looks like my prediction of February 2008 is coming closer.

 

You would have thought that a "world class" company such as Boeing would be able to get the right parts delivered at the right time without having to rush out to panic buy fasteners from a local hardware store.... the importance of meeting the 7/8/7 deadline for unveiling was so important for their publicity machine!!

 

What do you expect from a company that laid off over 30000 workers between 2001 - 2003? That was from Boeing Commercial Airplanes only. The defense sector will be hit once Bush gets out of office.

 

 

Looks like Boeing are starting to admit they have set targets they will struggle to achieve.

 

And it looks like a case of the slippery shoulders, trying to put the blame on the suppliers.

 

I have a simple answer. Get rid of the do nothing Boeing executives who outsourced all the American jobs, the suppliers are now doing.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

LOL ......

 

Anybody else think that BigD starting a thread entitled Boeing 787 on schedule to fly in 2007 was like the kiss of death for the aircraft.

 

He's never been right about anything in the past and it looks like he's aiming to maintain his 100% record here.

 

You would have thought that a "world class" company such as Boeing would be able to get the right parts delivered at the right time without having to rush out to panic buy fasteners from a local hardware store.... the importance of meeting the 7/8/7 deadline for unveiling was so important for their publicity machine!!

 

The problem is that Boeing is actually manufacturing very little of the aircraft and have zero control over their programme partners, very few of whom are actually employing aircraft engineers but rather bog-standard fitters with the resulting problems.

 

That said, as someone else pointed out, it has Boeing painted on the side so that's where the buck stops.

Edited September 6, 2007 by CheshireTom

[TheFiend 1,181]

Will the 787 make Boeings stated delivery date in May is the big question?

 

Each day of delays is making that target less and less realistic. The first development plane has yet to fly, then there are hours and hours of test flying, modifications to correct faults, certification and so on.....

 

May delivery is looking less and less likely!!!!

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Will the 787 make Boeings stated delivery date in May is the big question?

 

Each day of delays is making that target less and less realistic. The first development plane has yet to fly, then there are hours and hours of test flying, modifications to correct faults, certification and so on.....

 

May delivery is looking less and less likely!!!!

 

They need May/June deliveries as the airlines have ordered it specifically for the Beijing Olympics.

 

I think the Airbus guys in Hamburg might be indulging in a bit of schadenfreude at the moment .........

[BigDUSA 71]

LOL ......

 

He's never been right about anything in the past and it looks like he's aiming to maintain his 100% record here.

 

Once again another silly statement. LMAOAY

[eltib 54]

LOL ......

 

The problem is that Boeing is actually manufacturing very little of the aircraft and have zero control over their programme partners, very few of whom are actually employing aircraft engineers but rather bog-standard fitters with the resulting problems.

 

That said, as someone else pointed out, it has Boeing painted on the side so that's where the buck stops.

 

You gotta remember that Stonecipher was at the helm when they launched this Nightmare. The same failed procedures they used on the 717 / MD95 were applied to the 787. Most of the work for that aircraft were outsourced, and it was canceled after 125 orders.

 

Had Condit been a smart CEO, he would have told Stonecipher this when he bought McD.

 

"No were not putting your stupid little logo in front of the Boeing name, as well as not renaming the company to McDonnell / Boeing." (The last statement is truth. Stonecipher wanted to rename Boeing.)

 

"You are part of Boeing now, we do very little outsourcing. We will do the Boeing Way and by Boeing Procedures, and not the way that made McD a failure."

 

But I guess Condit was worrying too much about who his next fling would be.

Edited September 6, 2007 by eltib

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Once again another silly statement. LMAOAY

 

Silly ....... but accurate nonetheless.

 

Who said ........ and I quote;

 

Once again American ingenuity and manufacturing prowess comes to the fore. Along with the many suppliers all over the globe the Dreamliner rolls out ahead of schedule with the engines attached.

 

Unfortunately very little else was attached ........ and what was was disassembled immediately afterwards.

 

Funny that the Three Stooges have been a bit quiet lately.

Edited September 7, 2007 by CheshireTom

[wacmedia 277]

Funny that the Three Stooges have been a bit quiet lately.

 

Hi,

 

As readers of these threads will know I've always called the 787 the "Nightmareliner" You dont know how much it pains me to be right.

[eltib 54]

Hi,

 

As readers of these threads will know I've always called the 787 the "Nightmareliner" You dont know how much it pains me to be right.

 

[Samsonite 181]

Emirates' Clark: 787 delay inevitable but insignificant

Monday September 10, 2007

 

"It would have been a miracle for Boeing to have flown the 787 on time," Emirates President Tim Clark said, adding that the delay would not be a factor in the airline's evaluation of the 787 and A350 for an order for 100 aircraft.

 

Talking to ATWOnline onboard the carrier's latest 777-300ER Ultra Long Range, Clark said the 787 will be "one of the finest aircraft ever built," adding, "If you think about it, there is just so much new technology in the 787; it is no surprise at all there is a short delay and the supply chain has let [boeing] down." However, he believes the manufacturer will deliver the airplane close to schedule (ATWOnline, Sept. 6).

 

He also is bullish that the company will get the 747-8I right for the Emirates range specification. "They're not quite there yet but they are much, much closer than they were six months ago," he said.

 

When Boeing stretched the -8I to the same length as the 747-8F, it traded extra capacity for range, which did not suit Emirates' ultra-long-range missions from Dubai (ATWOnline, May 10). The manufacturer has been working on weight reduction in order to operate Dubai-Los Angeles with 400-passenger capability year-round.

 

In the original configuration offered to airlines, the 747-8I had seating for 450 in Boeing's standard three-class configuration with a range of 8,000 nm., later increased to 8,300 nm. after wind tunnel tests. That gain was traded for 17 more passengers in an additional stretch of 2 m. that matched the length of the freighter (ATWOnline, Oct. 31, 2006).

 

Emirates would buy 10-20 such aircraft, but Clark cautioned that internal fit-out configuration issues remain to be sorted out.

 

by Geoffrey Thomas"

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=10156