Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[Samsonite 181]

..And that's why Boeing should have offered a choice of GE, P&W, and R&R. instead of the former and latter. Maybe the quality would be more up to snuff, with increased competition...

But, but, but.... P&W didn't offer an engine for the 787. Sounds like they didn't want to make the investment, that is, spend the money to develop an engine that could meet the specs for the 787.

"According to United Technologies Corporation CEO George David, Pratt & Whitney "couldn't make the business case work for that engine."[24]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787

[TheFiend 1,181]

Tom:

 

Let's be candid, that "euro system" is being changed to more closely match the US system; those 32-hour work weeks, endless vacation, and union members that can't be fired, out the window much to the chagrin of those CESMs you mentioned before.

 

Just purely looking at EAD's and Boeing's 2009 as an example, it seems apparent which system worked better in their case.

 

Hub

 

This week met one of our American managers - the company I work for has been taken over by a Euro-American consortium and they are wanting to bring in American practices into the company..... They now want to talk about our Terms and Conditions and they are going to have big fight on their hands when it comes to renegotiating them. They seriously think the workforce will give up the majority of their allowances in exchange for the chance of a bigger bonus. They also want to re-organise shift patterns, increase mobility and make loads of other changes...... And they seriously think it can all be done in 4 months.

 

They stand no chance!!!

[CheshireTom 1,377]

If I did build it out of balsa wood it wouldn't have taxpayer subsidies like EADS/AIRBUS.

 

Now your spinning a conspiracy theory when EADS loses. You need to man up to the fact that EADS isn't competitive even with EU taxpayer deep pockets.

 

1 day till wheels UP.........

 

I thought that you were the Yank version of the A380 - big, fat, ugly and reliant upon the taxpayer paying your way.

[BigDUSA 71]

I thought that you were the Yank version of the A380 - big, fat, ugly and reliant upon the taxpayer paying your way.

 

All my government pensions have been earned by meeting the requirements laid down by the US Postal Service and Veterans Administration. Poor poor tommie has to engage in uncalled for personal attacks. So lame.

[Hub 203]

All my government pensions have been earned by meeting the requirements laid down by the US Postal Service and Veterans Administration. Poor poor tommie has to engage in uncalled for personal attacks. So lame.

 

Guys like you are why the system is being changed in Europe and the US. Collecting disability payments when you were/are clearly not disabled, taking advantage of an early buyout because of overstaffing, and sitting on your ass since you were 41 and living off your wife and the system.

 

If you were an eskimo, they would have pushed you out of the community on an ice sledge years ago. You are a drain on society.

 

Yet you leverage your marginal position in our society, along with lies and deceipts, to take advantage of desperate members of a society far down the economic scale of the one you are in.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

All my government pensions have been earned by meeting the requirements laid down by the US Postal Service and Veterans Administration. Poor poor tommie has to engage in uncalled for personal attacks. So lame.

 

Why didn't you get a pension for your PTSD, then? Doesn't it meet the requirements?

[BigDUSA 71]

Guys like you are why the system is being changed in Europe and the US. Collecting disability payments when you were/are clearly not disabled, taking advantage of an early buyout because of overstaffing, and sitting on your ass since you were 41 and living off your wife and the system.

 

If you were an eskimo, they would have pushed you out of the community on an ice sledge years ago. You are a drain on society.

 

Yet you leverage your marginal position in our society, along with lies and deceipts, to take advantage of desperate members of a society far down the economic scale of the one you are in.

 

VA MD say I'm diabled. Then again they had the ability to examime my claim and found in my favor. Nice chunk of tax free income every month. Pension from the US Postal Service was offered and since I qualified and wanted to stay home and raise our two y/o daughter. Sounds like your jealous that I've been able to live the good life and your tax dollars go to supporting it. I want to take the opportunity to give you a heartfelt 'thank you' for all your efforts. I'm 63 now, looks like I should be able to collect for another twenty to thirty years. How sweet it is. Thank you for your support.

 

Less then 14 hours till wheels UP and I'll drink a couple of cold ones in your honor. Why not your helping to pay for them.

[Samsonite 181]

It is this kind of complete thread f*&%ing that is ruining this board and has pulled it down to second place in traffic as compared to a certain other board associated with another bar.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Samsonite

[wacmedia 277]

It is called, ETOPS, Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards. Two engines jetliners cannot be more than xxx number of minutes from the nearest airport.

While I would prefer a 4 engine plane for a long haul flight, the data generated over the years since two engine twin aisle jets first went into service has shown them to be every bit as reliable as four engine jets, if not more so.

 

 

Hi,

 

Still prefer a 4 engine plane.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Hi,

 

Still prefer a 4 engine plane.

 

And I still prefer to fly in an Airbus....

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Maybe some of you guys are too hard on the Hall O Famer? He got shot while engaged in the Vietnam War and has worked in the public sector in US. One could argue that he is a War Hero with a lifetime of Public Service.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

I think we had this conversation a few years back. I don't think they'll automatically defer to Boeing, only that they won't award the contract to Northrop/EADS.

 

Not bad for a bit of guesswork ........

 

Tanker contract given to Boeing .......

 

The US Defense Department said it was disappointed by the EADS-Northrop decision, but it denied accusations of unfairness. The Pentagon may now be forced to award a contract to Boeing without any competition, a practice US President Barack Obama has sharply criticized as a bad deal for taxpayers.

 

Meanwhile, Boeing used the announcement to talk up its own model for the tanker, based on the commercial 767.

 

"The Boeing NewGen Tanker will be safe and survivable in combat, will save the American taxpayer $10 billion in fuel costs over its 40-year life, and is American-designed and built," Boeing spokesman Bill Barksdale said in a statement.

 

I suppose when your government ensures you can just add a couple of zeroes to the cost, you don't need subsidies.

 

Who could have predicted that!

[wacmedia 277]

I suppose when your government ensures you can just add a couple of zeroes to the cost, you don't need subsidies.

 

Who could have predicted that!

 

Hi,

 

Funny shit. And the Americans talk about Airbus getting tax breaks.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Hi,

 

Funny shit. And the Americans talk about Airbus getting tax breaks.

 

You've got to laugh when they talk about replacing obsolete aircraft with the 767. Does Boeing still actually build the thing?

[eltib 54]

But, but, but.... P&W didn't offer an engine for the 787. Sounds like they didn't want to make the investment, that is, spend the money to develop an engine that could meet the specs for the 787.

"According to United Technologies Corporation CEO George David, Pratt & Whitney "couldn't make the business case work for that engine."[24]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787

 

Thanx, I didn't know that.

[eltib 54]

If I did build it out of balsa wood it wouldn't have taxpayer subsidies like EADS/AIRBUS.

 

But yours would do this

 

 

[BigDUSA 71]

Hi,

 

Maybe some of you guys are too hard on the Hall O Famer? He got shot while engaged in the Vietnam War and has worked in the public sector in US. One could argue that he is a War Hero with a lifetime of Public Service.

 

I NEVER said I was shot nor have I claimed to be a war hero. I am proud of my service to my country during a war in a combat zone.

[Hub 203]

Not bad for a bit of guesswork ........

 

Tanker contract given to Boeing .......

 

The US Defense Department said it was disappointed by the EADS-Northrop decision, but it denied accusations of unfairness. The Pentagon may now be forced to award a contract to Boeing without any competition, a practice US President Barack Obama has sharply criticized as a bad deal for taxpayers.

 

Meanwhile, Boeing used the announcement to talk up its own model for the tanker, based on the commercial 767.

 

"The Boeing NewGen Tanker will be safe and survivable in combat, will save the American taxpayer $10 billion in fuel costs over its 40-year life, and is American-designed and built," Boeing spokesman Bill Barksdale said in a statement.

 

I suppose when your government ensures you can just add a couple of zeroes to the cost, you don't need subsidies.

 

Who could have predicted that!

 

Tom:

 

US Defense Department said it was disappointed by the EADS-Northrop decision

 

I think it would be more accurate to say that you predicted the US gov would award the contract to Boeing no matter the circumstances. That has not been proven. What happened is that EADs-Northrop decided not to pony up the 100 million for putting together another bid because EADs is leaking money in too many other areas........

 

which is what I predicted!!

 

The government isn't "assuring" anything; EADs is by not bidding.

[Hub 203]

Tom:

 

What is fact is that EADs once again poured in a massive amount of bailout money from Euro governments to save the transport plane program, which does not lead to a level playing field.

 

What is also fact is that EADs will post a 2009 loss while Boeing was an efficient and profitable organization in 2009, yeilding a profit and a 4% dividend despite the delays in production. Which is nice for the kid!

 

The lucky thing for BA is that EADs probably won't even be able to afford the 100 million it will cost to put together a bid on the tankers, as they are pissing money away in too many other areas.

 

Hub

Edited March 10, 2010 by Hub

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Seems appropriate on a pussy forum. Boeing 3 in a bed. They get to screw the US taxpayer for loads of dosh and screw US military with an inferior plane to the Airbus. Hope that decision doesn’t cost more than money in the future.

 

March 10, 2010

 

Don’t turn air race into trade war, Mandelson tells Obama

 

 

 

Lord Mandelson has tried to head off a transatlantic trade war by expressing concern at Washington’s handling of a $35 billion Pentagon procurement project that could spark European retaliation.

 

At the centre of the row are allegations made by EADS that the Pentagon has skewed the terms of a competitive tender to favour Boeing.

 

EADS, the owner of Airbus, and its American partner Northrop Grumman said on Monday night that they were pulling out of the race to build air refuelling tankers for the US Air Force.

 

It is understood that the Business Secretary has written to the White House to articulate his concerns. Whitehall insiders told The Times last night that the handling of the tanker contract had sent the wrong signal.

 

 

One said: “It is inevitable that there will be pressure on European governments to retaliate, but that really can’t be the way forward. The last thing we want is a tit-for-tat fight across the Atlantic.”

 

Lord Mandelson is also understood to be angry that EADS has been forced to throw in the towel as the UK would have been a big beneficiary had it won the contract. The deal could have been worth £4.6 billion in export orders and helped to secure 5,000 jobs at the Airbus factory in Broughton, North Wales, which would have built the tanker’s wings.

 

When the tanker contract was first opened for bidding in 2007, EADS-Northrop offered the Airbus A330 while Boeing offered the smaller 767. The European aircraft won but Boeing protested and, after intense lobbying by the American company’s supporters in Congress, the deal was overturned on technicalities. When the Pentagon reissued the terms of the contract it had been changed to favour a smaller plane and EADS-Northrop felt that they could not compete.

 

This sparked anger in Europe yesterday, with Germany’s Economy Minister saying that the situation had signs of protectionism. The European Commission pointedly reminded the United States that the trade imbalance in defence equipment heavily favoured it. In 2008, the US sold $5 billion of defence equipment to Europe while sales in the other direction were $2.2 billion, mostly from the UK. “The European Commission would be extremely concerned if it were to emerge that the terms of tender were such as to inhibit open competition for the contract,” it said. This statement was seen by defence officials as a warning that retaliatory action could be taken by European nations.

 

Lord Mandelson said yesterday: “Given the open market to US producers we have in Europe, it is very disappointing that a US-led European consortium feels that the revised tanker procurement process is now so biased against them that it is not even worth making a bid.”

 

The Airbus aircraft has won every tanker competition it has entered against Boeing, including in the UK, which will buy 14 as part of a £13 billion private finance initiative.

 

Louis Gallois, EADS chief executive, said: “The competition request is now for a smaller, less capable plane and this gives a huge advantage to the 767. What is the consequence of that, the US Air Force will not have the most modern plane in the world.”

 

The Pentagon’s first attempt to buy new tankers ten years ago ended in scandal when its deal with Boeing was revealed to be corrupt. The company had hired Darleen Druyan, the Pentagon official in charge of the procurement project, after she inflated the price of the planes. She pleaded guilty to corruption and Boeing was fined $615 million.

[Samsonite 181]

...US military with an inferior plane to the Airbus.....

Bullshit. A completely subjective opinion on your part.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Bullshit. A completely subjective opinion on your part.

 

Bullshit? The airlines don't think so..... the A330 has outsold the 767...

[BigDUSA 71]

Bullshit? The airlines don't think so..... the A330 has outsold the 767...

 

With massive on going EU taxpayer subsidies.

[jacko 8,776]

With massive on going EU taxpayer subsidies.

An Airbus A330 (300) is about 195-200 Million US$

A 767 (300ER) is about 145-160 Million US$.

 

Since price definitely goes against the Airbus, something else must be a factor in the higher sales.

The subsidies you claim go where?

[BigDUSA 71]

An Airbus A330 (300) is about 195-200 Million US$

A 767 (300ER) is about 145-160 Million US$.

 

Since price definitely goes against the Airbus, something else must be a factor in the higher sales.

The subsidies you claim go where?

 

Discounts off of list price.