Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[MrMango 672]

Hi,

 

What is your opinion of the funding of Boeing then ?

Exactly the same

[wacmedia 277]

Exactly the same

 

 

Hi,

 

Well done my fruity friend. At least one American can see that both companies depend on extra Gov/State funding.

[MrMango 672]

Hi,

 

Well done my fruity friend. At least one American can see that both companies depend on extra Gov/State funding.

I NEVER said that Boeing depends on Governmental funding. Sure, part of Boeing that builds aircraft for the government depends on payment from their customer, but the civilian side willingly accepts any free money (as any corporation would) but is not dependent on them.

[wacmedia 277]

Sure, part of Boeing that builds aircraft for the government depends on payment from their customer, but the civilian side willingly accepts any free money (as any corporation would) but is not dependent on them.

 

Hi,

 

That free money is local taxpayers money at the end of the day. There is a perception in Europe that Boeing get padded military contracts and that view is encouraged by the fiasco over the tanker contract.

[MrMango 672]

Hi,

 

That free money is local taxpayers money at the end of the day.

The amount of local money as a percent is almost zero. No Company would modify it's behavior based on these insignificant giveaways.

 

 

 

There is a perception in Europe that Boeing get padded military contracts and that view is encouraged by the fiasco over the tanker contract.

Padded? naaa. They bid against all bidders and if they can discredit another bidder they have a better chance of winning - Just the same as Airbust did. Remember, Airbust cooked the procurement books to get a better chance at wining the award.

[TheFiend 1,187]

Padded? naaa. They bid against all bidders and if they can discredit another bidder they have a better chance of winning - Just the same as Airbust did. Remember, Airbust cooked the procurement books to get a better chance at wining the award.

 

And Boeing offered cushy jobs to some of the procurement team to get a better chance of winning the award - and got caught out.

 

Things like this happen throughout industry......... worldwide.

Edited July 3, 2010 by TheFiend

[MrMango 672]

And Boeing offered cushy jobs to some of the procurement team to get a better chance of winning the award - and got caught out.

 

Things like this happen throughout industry......... worldwide.

Of course these things happen, but the total amount of money is insignificant in the big picture.

[wacmedia 277]

Things like this happen throughout industry......... worldwide.

 

Hi,

 

If Boeing offered me a thick enough brown envelope I'd take it.

[TheFiend 1,187]

Of course these things happen, but the total amount of money is insignificant in the big picture.

 

Boeing were caught cheating!

[MrMango 672]

Boeing were caught cheating!

I understand!

 

My point was that that was not a subsidy, as the amounts were minimal overall.

[chacha 0]

I understand!

 

My point was that that was not a subsidy, as the amounts were minimal overall.

ANSWER THE FOOKING QUESTION MANGO HOW MANY DEAD BEFORE IT IS NOT CHEAP

[MrMango 672]

ANSWER THE FOOKING QUESTION MANGO HOW MANY DEAD BEFORE IT IS NOT CHEAP

Troll attack.

 

Please do not feed the trolls

[chacha 0]

Troll attack.

 

Please do not feed the trolls

ANSWER THE FOOKING QUESTION MANGO HOW MANY DEAD BEFORE IT IS NOT CHEAP

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Airbus are back in this fight.

 

http://www.eads.com/eads/int/en/news/press...d82cb9791b.html

 

 

EADS North America to Submit KC-X Tanker Proposal

 

Leiden, 08 July 2010

 

EADS North America today will submit its proposal in the United States Air Force KC-X aerial refueling tanker competition, a day ahead of the July 9 deadline. The 8,800+ page proposal details the unequalled capabilities of the EADS KC-45.

 

“We’re proud of our offering, which is the only one in this competition that is flying and refueling the full array of receiver aircraft,” said EADS North America Chairman Ralph Crosby. “The U.S. Air Force will select the tanker that best meets the American warfighters’ requirements. We are anxious to conclude the acquisition process and are confident in the superior capabilities of the KC-45.”

 

The KC-45, based on the commercially successful A330, will be assembled in a new manufacturing facility to be built in Mobile, Alabama, which will also produce Airbus commercial freighter aircraft – more than doubling the aircraft production that the tanker alone would bring.

 

The KC-45 will also create and support jobs across a supplier base of more than 200 American companies. Along with prime contractor EADS North America, the KC-45 industry supplier team includes many trusted providers of equipment and services for America’s warfighters, including:

 

• EATON (actuators, valves and other systems)

• GE Aviation (engines and systems)

• Goodrich Corporation (varied aircraft systems)

• Hamilton Sundstrand (generators, turbines and related systems)

• Honeywell (communications and navigation systems and other aircraft components)

• Moog Inc. (flight control systems)

• Parker Aerospace (aerial refueling receptacles, hydraulic system equipment, fluid conveyance products and fuel components)

• Rockwell Collins (electronics)

• Triumph Aerostructures - Vought Aircraft Division (wing structures)

 

The reliability and performance of the KC-45 and its refueling systems has been validated by over 1,000 boom/hose-and-drogue contacts and refuelings involving a wide range of aircraft, including F-16 and F/A-18 fighters, E-3 AWACS and other A330 tankers. The KC-45 is the U.S. Air Force configuration of the Airbus Military A330 Multi Role Tanker Transport, which has been selected by four allied nations, winning every head-to-head competition against Boeing tankers. The KC-45 carries more fuel, cargo and passengers over greater ranges than the NewGen concept aircraft that Boeing has described as its offering to the U.S. Air Force.

 

EADS North America and its parent company, EADS, contribute over $11 billion to the U.S. economy annually and support more than 200,000 American jobs through its network of suppliers and services.

Edited July 9, 2010 by wacmedia

[bigdelta 46]

Boeing Plans to Debut 787 Dreamliner and New Unmanned Systems at Farnborough.

CHICAGO, July 9 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The Boeing 787 Dreamliner will make its international debut this month when the doors open on the Farnborough International Airshow outside London. Boeing also will feature an extensive display of new, advanced unmanned systems and technologies.

 

"We've chosen Farnborough as a venue for spotlighting the breakthrough capabilities and innovations of both our commercial airplanes and our defense, space and security businesses," said Tom Downey, senior vice president, Boeing Communications. "We look forward to an optimistic mood this year as industry leaders meet amid signs of economic recovery."

 

The 787 flight-test airplane, ZA003, will touch down at Farnborough the morning of Sunday, July 18 and will remain on static display through mid-day July 20. The airplane will be open for tours on a scheduled basis July 19 and 20. Boeing is using ZA003 to test and certify seats, galleys and associated cabin safety and comfort systems, among other test points.

 

Boeing's exhibit at the show will focus on unmanned systems, including the international debut of the recently unveiled Phantom Ray demonstrator, the A160 Hummingbird and the Unmanned Little Bird. The Boeing Unmanned Systems Display will showcase more than a dozen products, including the new Integrator and the ScanEagle Compressed Carriage.

 

During the show's daily flying demonstration, Boeing will demonstrate the capabilities of its advanced, combat-proven, multi-role F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fighter. The company and its customers will display several other systems, including the air show debut of the 737-based Peace Eagle airborne early warning and control platform for the Turkish Air Force. Visitors also will see the C-17 Globemaster III military transport; the F-15E Eagle fighter jet; and the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter. In addition, Qatar Airways will display its newest Boeing 777-300ER July 19-22.

 

Boeing is the world's largest aerospace company and leading manufacturer of commercial jetliners and defense, space and security systems. A top U.S. exporter, the company supports airlines and U.S. and allied government customers in more than 90 countries. Boeing products and tailored services include commercial and military aircraft, satellites, weapons, electronic and defense systems, launch systems, advanced information and communication systems, and performance-based logistics and training. With corporate offices in Chicago, Boeing employs more than 159,000 people across the United States and in 70 countries. The company's leadership is strengthened further by hundreds of thousands of people who work for Boeing suppliers worldwide.

[wacmedia 277]

, Boeing employs more than 159,000 people across the United States

 

 

EADS North America and its parent company, EADS, contribute over $11 billion to the U.S. economy annually and support more than 200,000 American jobs through its network of suppliers and services.

 

Hi,

 

Didn't know EADS employed more than Boeing in America.

Edited July 10, 2010 by wacmedia

[MrMango 672]

Hi,

 

Didn't know EADS employed more than Boeing in America.

As we all know numbers do not lie but liars do numbers....

 

If you read close, it says

Boeing employs more than 159,000 people across the United States

 

While Airbust says:

EADS North America and its parent company, EADS, contribute over $11 billion to the U.S. economy annually and support more than 200,000 American jobs through its network of suppliers and services

 

A BIG difference.

[Samsonite 181]

Richard Aboulafia on the A380 and Emirates, from his June 2010 newsletter:

 

 

"...This is one of my favorite themes in the civil aerospace industry too. Government-funded national airplanes hurt national airlines. For decades, governments in Indonesia, India, Russia, and other emerging aviation players have gotten the bright idea of creating national planes, which usually means sealing the borders and forcing local airlines to take them. Heaven help, for example, any Chinese carriers forced to accept ARJ 21s.

 

A new variation on this theme: Funding a national airplane and subsidizing foreign carriers to take it. Not only are you hurting taxpayers with a subsidized airplane, but you’re hurting your airline industry too. This brings us to the big event at ILA: Emirates’ order for 32 more A380s. This somewhat overhyped event (Airfinance Journal reports that it was compensation for a Dubai Aerospace Enterprise Airbus orders “restructuring”) represents the only significant A380 order in years. It also cements Emirates’ status as the only enthusiastic A380 customer.

 

The A380 isn’t a Trabant. Having flown on it, it offers a very quiet and comfortable passenger experience. But it’s a commercial disaster. Put aside Emirates’ 90 planes and the latest round of dumb hype (“it takes an A380 to compete with an A380!”), and Airbus has sold a dismal 144 aircraft over 10 years (this month marks the 10th anniversary of the commercial launch decision, which was followed by Singapore’s order). Some of those 144 A380 orders are basically dead, and many others have been deferred.

 

The only hope for the A380 program, therefore, is Emirates. Like its wannabe colleagues Etihad and Qatar, Emirates is enjoying remarkable growth rates by grabbing other people’s traffic. Airbus tacitly acknowledges this. Their latest Global Market Forecast calls for 6.9% annual Mideast traffic growth. To absorb the current backlog of 90 A380s, 200+ A350XWBs, 200 777s and 787s, and scads of other planes, Emirates and its pals need to grow at a much faster pace than 6.9%. It’s very unlikely that they’ll grow fast enough to absorb all 90 A380s, but they have enjoyed impressive growth. They’ve achieved that by siphoning traffic away from European legacy carriers, especially Lufthansa, Air France/KLM, and British Airways (these three very large carriers, by the way, have ordered a combined total of just 39 A380s).

 

Emirates is an excellent airline that has won that traffic by offering great service at a good price (with some help from its home base). Europe would only hurt its consumers if it kept Emirates out of its air travel markets, and protectionism is a bad idea. But the A380 represents a publically funded way to help Emirates beat up on those European airlines. Europe is subsidizing the aeronautical rope that Emirates is using to hang European airlines in four ways:

 

1. Export Credit Finance. Many A380s exported to the Mideast enjoy European government export credit finance, which is particularly important as Dubai’s financial uncertainties affect capital availability. ECA finance, of course, is not available for the European carriers whose traffic is Emirate’s favorite lunch.

2. Landing Rights. According to many press reports, the latest round of A380 orders was announced in Berlin to curry favor with German authorities. The goal is to gain landing rights for Emirates at Lufthansa’s expense.

 

3. A380 Development Funding. The A380 itself would have been impossible without billions in taxpayer euros that will never, ever be paid back.

 

4. A350XWB Development Funding. Airbus might not need public cash for this new plane if it weren’t losing tens of millions on each A380 it delivers. Airbus now says that A380 production won’t turn cash-positive until at least 2015. Until then, losses on each plane delivered to Emirates will effectively be made good by A350XWB launch aid.

 

In short, from Emirate’s viewpoint, the A380 represents Europe’s fat and vulnerable aviation underbelly. Europe has shown it is quite willing to protect its national plane, even if that means throwing its national airlines under a bus.

 

After ILA I joined my family in Amsterdam. As I landed at Schiphol, it occurred to me that the Netherlands holds a unique distinction. It had a national jet and a national airline, and it let go of both of them. Fokker and KLM were good, but not good enough, or big enough, to be successful global players. Fokker devolved into a components manufacturer, and KLM, of course, was rolled into Air France. The Netherlands has one of the most advanced economies in the world. Perhaps protecting national airplanes and national airlines is merely a phase countries go through as they grow up.

 

Until then, as Europe supports the A380 by getting Emirates and friends to take them, Lufthansa and its fellow European carriers face a tough time. On that note, this month’s WMCAB updates include the Trainer and Military Transport Aircraft Overviews, and updates of India’s LCA and ALH, the Learjet series, and the AMX and Tornado reports. See you on Farnborough’s melting tarmac.

 

Yours, ‘Til US Transcon Routes Are Routed Through Dubai,

Richard Aboulafia"

 

http://www.richardaboulafia.com/shownote.asp?id=318

 

The highlights are Mr. Aboulafia's.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Samsonite

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Richard Aboulafia on the A380 and Emirates, from his June 2010 newsletter: blah, blah, blah

 

The highlights are Mr. Aboulafia's.

 

Is this the same Aboulafia that was paid by Boeing to rubbish the A380. He'll say anything if you pay him enough.

 

Anyway, conveniently as it turns out, he also made the following observations ...

 

Politics, not airplane quality, might be the most crucial factor in the award of a $35 billion Air Force contract.

 

Aerospace analyst Richard Aboulafia, of the TEAL group, calls the next generation air refueling tanker contract the most "politicized and partisan" he's seen.

 

"It's very suspicious that the contract decision has been moved until just after the November election. So, I think it's pretty clear that if the democrats keep the House, then Boeing has an excellent chance and if they don't then all bets are off and EADS is back with some hope," says Aboulafia.

 

Historically, contracts are ideally awarded based on cost-effectiveness and quality. But Aboulafia tells KIRO Radio he thinks this process has validated the notion that politics must be closely involved in military procurement.

 

Washington's Congressional delegation of mostly democrats has lined up in support of Boeing's bid, demanding that the Pentagon take into consideration illegal subsidies granted Airbus during the development of its A-330 model that would serve as the airframe for the EADS tanker.

 

So there we have it ... Boeing being subsidised by the US taxpayer to the tune of USD 35 bn to keep the dinosaur 767 line going.

Edited July 14, 2010 by CheshireTom

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

America also has Chapter 11 which allows bankrupt airlines companies to continue trading. If America had its way there would be such a high barrier to entry in markets that the only choice one would have is which American product to buy.

[Samsonite 181]

...So there we have it ... Boeing being subsidised by the US taxpayer to the tune of USD 35 bn to keep the dinosaur 767 line going...

As usual, you don't know your ass from a hot rock.

The Air Force needs to replace their old tankers regardless of who wins the contract, but, according to you, if Boeing wins the contract it is a subsidy? What would you call it if airbust were to win the contract?

Even if Boeing does win the tanker contract you won't be seeing too many, if any, new commercial 767s built as they will be replaced with the 787-8. The 787-9 will, most likely, take the market from the 777-200/ER.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

What would you call it if airbust were to win the contract?

 

A miracle.

[TheFiend 1,187]

A miracle.

 

Airbus did win the contract........ then, surprise surprise, it was put out to tender gain.

[Samsonite 181]

Airbus did win the contract........ then, surprise surprise, it was put out to tender gain.

With reason if you followed the story.

[wacmedia 277]

With reason if you followed the story.

 

Hi,

 

The only reason seemed to be they were European. Even if their partners were American and the work was going to be done there. Independent analysis suggest the European plane is vastly superior.