Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[eltib 54]

Nope. Wait and watch. There is a very good chance Boeing will be able to catch up and keep the delayed deliveries at a minimum. And for the guy who use to work for Boeing and is carrying that huge chip on his shoulder, the delays have been from the suppliers. Just the other day the company that is building the power supply for the 787 admitted it, but said they are now on track. There is nothing wrong with the technology, it was getting the suppliers up to speed.

********************

787 supplier Hamilton Sundstrand says power-on 'darn close'

Thursday June 5, 2008

 

Boeing is on track for 787 power-on later this month and the supply chain and technical issues that have caused the program's extensive delays largely are resolved, according to Hamilton Sundstrand, the aircraft's largest systems supplier."Clearly the airplane is making tremendous progress," HS President David Hess told reporters this week at the company's Rockford, Ill., facility, where 787 systems are being built and tested. "It's coming together and we're confident and Boeing's confident that [power-on] will happen this month. The airplane looks pretty darn close to me. . .We've got 100% of the systems they need for power-on to Boeing."

 

HS is providing the electrical, auxiliary power, air-thermal management, hydraulic, fire protection and engine systems for the aircraft. Its 787 work is valued at $15 billion over 20 years.

 

The leap in technology on the 787 posed initial problems as the manufacturer and HS attempted to define system parameters. "It's a revolutionary and very innovative aircraft," Hess explained. "There quite honestly were technical challenges that both we and Boeing didn't fully appreciate. The requirements definition phase took longer than we expected. . .When you go to a composite structure the requirements change and how you develop systems is different."

 

But technical problems were not the major cause of program delays, he said. "We probably had a little bit steeper learning curve on the supply chain side than the technical side," he commented. "We [now] have a lot more rigorous and robust supply chain processes than we had two years ago. . .When you think about where the 787 program has had problems, it hasn't been at the technical level. It's really been supply chain management issues."

 

Those issues stem from Boeing's new global model for building aircraft that empowers suppliers such as HS, which sends 90% of its 787 components to structural suppliers rather than directly to Everett. Boeing has cited poor performance from its suppliers in explaining 787 program delays but recently has insisted that most of the problems have been fixed (ATWOnline, May 20).

 

"I don't want to get into a shooting match with [boeing] on who was late, why it was late," Hess said. "We're all late."

 

by Aaron Karp

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=12932

 

The operative words yours "very good chance"

 

HS

"power on darn close"

 

I wonder who he leaned that word from? Oh yeah Harry Stonecipher aka Mr. Ethical that couldn't keep his dick in his pants and basically got canned in a nice way.

 

Scally haven't you learned yet? My source is from a guy who got laid off from Goodrich. Your's is from a newspaper article. And I wouldn't be surprised if Hamilton Sundstrand was the actual problem. Boeing has been good at cover ups, until the emails caught them in a lie. But their commercial customers don't have subpoena power like the US Government has. So I guess they''ll have to settle for fines from Boeing, and other compensation.

 

Edited June 7, 2008 by eltib

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Err, you assume there is nothing wrong with the technology ....... but since it ain't been tested yet that's a very big assumption.

 

"Clearly the airplane is making tremendous progress,"

 

Almost a year from roll-out to power-on. Yes, tremendous progress.

Edited June 7, 2008 by CheshireTom

[eltib 54]

Err, you assume there is nothing wrong with the technology ....... but since it ain't been tested yet that's a very big assumption.

Almost a year from roll-out to power-on. Yes, tremendous progress.

 

All of Scallys (Like Big D's) are assumptions. That's because they read and believe what's in the newspapers, instead of having contact with actual sources within the industry.

[BigDUSA 71]

Err, you assume there is nothing wrong with the technology ....... but since it ain't been tested yet that's a very big assumption.

Almost a year from roll-out to power-on. Yes, tremendous progress.

 

 

The Everett final-assembly line of Boeing's 787 Dreamliner buzzed Monday with energy and activity as mechanics hustled to complete four airplanes lined up nose-to-tail.

 

It's a busier beehive than Boeing planned for. The sections of the first Dreamliners arrived lacking much of the wiring and systems that the company's major partners were supposed to install, and Boeing mechanics have been painstakingly hand-building these planes.

 

But Pat Shanahan, head of the program, said Monday on the first public tour of the production line that the plane now at the back of the assembly bay marks a turning point. That 787, Dreamliner 3, will be built almost the way Boeing originally planned.

 

The first Dreamliners, which arrived as virtual shells, now have dedicated crews working seven days a week to finish them.

 

But No. 3 is already much more finished and doesn't need that special attention.

 

The entire front fuselage section, built by Spirit AeroSystems in Wichita, Kan., arrived already wired. Inside the cockpit of the tan-colored, composite-plastic plane, the steering columns are in place and the instrument panels lack only the glass display screens.

 

There's still work to be caught up on. The fuselage is largely empty from the wings back. Insulation blankets cover the sidewalls, where the wiring that should be visible at this stage of assembly is missing.

 

But when this plane moves to the next position, the crew working on it now will stay at their station and turn their attention to the next plane to arrive in Everett.

 

"The production system starts here," Shanahan said, and the tangible progress is producing a new upbeat mood on the factory floor.

 

"If you came here six months ago — long faces, real frustration. Now, they are really motivated. They can see light," Shanahan said. "These guys are pumped."

 

Monday, the four 787s lined up in the assembly bay were: Dreamliner No. 1; then the fatigue test plane, which will never fly — instead being subjected to loads simulating multiple takeoffs and landings equivalent to many airplane lifetimes; then Dreamliners 2 and 3.

 

The look of the factory will begin to change when the next plane comes in, and the progress will be more dramatically visible, said Shanahan.

 

Right now, the wings of all four airplanes are enveloped in basic scaffolding of the type you might see on a construction site. That's because the wings came from Japan so unfinished that they required much systems installation. The scaffolding gives the mechanics access all over the wings.

 

But Shanahan said he anticipates the next set of wings from Mitsubishi Heavy Industry, for Dreamliner No. 4, "may come in complete" with all required wiring and fasteners. He said the mechanics won't need the scaffolding, only cherry-picker-type lifts to reach their work points.

 

That shift will remove much visual clutter and open up the airplane assembly. The support staff who sit with laptops at the many tables along the edges of the line will have a clearer view of the planes, as will mechanics breaking for lunch at the Dreamliner Diner cafe that overlooks the line from the second floor.

 

"Number 4 will be the best airplane yet," Shanahan said. Inside, the whole cabin will arrive with the wiring installed along the entire interior fuselage. "It's [already] done," he said.

 

Though journalists didn't get inside the first three Dreamliners on the line, each was a hive of activity. Through the door of Dreamliner No. 1, one could glimpse a crew of mechanics busy installing components in the rear of the cabin.

 

Shanahan said this first airplane, due to fly this fall, is set to have its power switched on next month.

 

"Power-On" is a significant milestone. It allows Boeing to test everything the mechanics have installed, from wiring to hydraulic and pneumatic tubing.

 

Asked about problematic areas in the systems, Shanahan said "two guys are on my list." He identified these as the suppliers of the airplane's power system (Hamilton Sundstrand of Windsor Locks, Conn.) and of its brake control monitoring system (a Burbank, Calif. unit of Crane Aerospace, a subtier supplier to General Electric).

 

Shanahan said he has promised Hamilton Sundstrand President David Hess a fabulous meal if Hess delivers everything he needs next month.

 

Shanahan also set out his optimistic expectations for a rigorous eight-month flight-test program, and a concurrent process for certification of the airplane by the Federal Aviation Administration.

 

He said that despite the embarrassing delays that mean some airlines will have to wait two years longer than anticipated for delivery of their Dreamliners, Boeing can now meet its newly revised schedule. The first plane is to fly by the end of the year and the first delivery should happen in the third quarter next year.

 

Shanahan said challenges can and will erupt unexpectedly: "This is a program where every half-hour somebody runs in my office and throws a grenade."

 

But he expressed cool confidence that each time this happens, "we'll dispatch the right people and resolve those issues."

 

Shanahan said that despite the problems that have arisen, Boeing will "unquestionably" use the same manufacturing process again — outsourcing the work to partners and making the plane in large single-piece sections rather than many panels joined together.

 

Standing alongside No. 3, he said Boeing has to drill about 10,000 holes to assemble the 787 fuselage, compared with a million holes on the 747 jumbo jet.

 

Elsewhere in the largest building in the world, Boeing has temporarily assembled an enormous fixture — 1.5 million pounds of structural steel — to hold yet another Dreamliner, the static test airplane.

 

Because of the new carbon-fiber-reinforced plastic material used to build the plane, it must undergo an extensive structural test program, more rigorous than usual.

 

The static test plane is one of two that will never fly. It will sit in this giant rig through next spring and be bent, sheared and pressured by forces 1.5 times greater than the limit of those it will ever encounter in flight.

 

Randy Harley, vice president of engineering and technology on the 787, said tests will deflect the wingtips at least 26 feet above their resting position.

 

Boeing still has not decided whether or not to bend the wings until they break — a dramatic moment on all previous airplane programs, and one usually witnessed by a large part of the work force.

 

Boeing will only do so this time if engineers believe they need to learn more about the structure under greater loads. But due to lack of space in the 747 bay, if they do decide to go that far, Boeing won't bring in bleachers for the show. All but a handful of test controllers will watch on video.

 

 

 

An article published May 22, 2008, was corrected May 23, 2008. Due to incorrect information supplied by Boeing, a previous version erroneously identified Messier-Bugatti of France, which supplies the jet's brakes, as having problems meeting its commitments. Boeing said the problematic supplier is not Messier-Bugatti, but a subtier contractor to General Electric that makes the brake control monitoring system.

 

 

Yes progress over the last year has been tremendous. At least Boeing isn't going around with the begging bowl out.

[TheFiend 1,181]

The slight delay on A380s programmed for delivery this year is caused by the changeover in production from having to modify the wiring on the early "builds" in the system to the modified wiring builds coming through now. Deliveries will be back on target shortly after the changeover is completed.

 

The 747/8 is a failure as a passenger airliner......... end of story. There has been only 2 747s ordered this year. And those have been ordered by Boeing Business Jets. The plane is a dinosaur.

 

As for the Nightmareliner....... it is now 11 months since it was unveiled to the public on the 8th of July last year..... and still the prototype has not been powered up! Even if they achieve power up shortly, there is a hell of a lot of systems commissioning and proof testing to be done before the Nightmareliner will even be allowed to fly.

 

The 787 shell was rolled out of the factory last july..... and that is all it was - a shell with wheels on. And so far it has taken 11 months to get the shell anywhere near complete so that they can start doing testing.

 

At least Airbus admit reasons for delays..... Boeing have tried to put the blame on everybody else but themselves.

Edited June 11, 2008 by TheFiend

[TheFiend 1,181]

Royal Jordanian: 787 delay has ripple effect

Friday June 6, 2008

 

The 787 delay is having a "quite dramatic" effect on Royal Jordanian's long-haul growth strategy, Chairman and CEO Samer Majali told ATWOnline at this week's IATA AGM in Istanbul.

 

"The [787] delay hits our strategy," he said, noting that the carrier's regional and mid-haul fleet renewal will be finalized by next year.

 

RJ plans to add 11 Dreamliners, four of which are direct purchases with the remainder on lease. It originally intended to operate 12 787s but was able to secure only seven on lease rather than eight (ATWOnline, May 22, 2007). Deliveries were scheduled to begin in November 2010 but have been postponed 24-27 months.

 

"It affects our total long-haul fleet," Majali conceded. The 787 order is part of the carrier's strategy to replace its four A340-200s and three passenger A310s as well as support growth. "We are working with Boeing and the leasing companies to find solutions with a minimal impact on costs," he said. Options include extending the A340 leases, but they would need a major upgrade to align them with RJ's new service standards for seat comfort and IFE, which would require a significant investment "and would leave us with higher maintenance and fuel costs" compared to the 787, he noted. It also could locate some 777s to bridge the time gap.

 

RJ has taken delivery of two A321s, one A319 and one E-175 this year with another 175 and an A319 joining the fleet later in 2008. In 2009 another two A319s will arrive. "Then our entire regional and mid-haul fleet will be less than three years old," Majali said.

 

by Cathy Buyck

 

Nightmareliner customers not happy by the look of this

[CheshireTom 1,377]

An article published May 22, 2008, was corrected May 23, 2008. Due to incorrect information supplied by Boeing, a previous version erroneously identified Messier-Bugatti of France, which supplies the jet's brakes, as having problems meeting its commitments. Boeing said the problematic supplier is not Messier-Bugatti, but a subtier contractor to General Electric that makes the brake control monitoring system.

Yes progress over the last year has been tremendous. At least Boeing isn't going around with the begging bowl out.

 

 

That just about sums it up. They don't even know who's building the aeroplane.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Also from www.atwonline.com Friday June 6, 2008

 

Emirates to take delivery of first A380 next month

 

Emirates will receive its first A380 on July 28 at a ceremony in Hamburg. First service will be from Dubai to New York JFK, possibly as early as Aug. 1.

 

 

 

And here is some more terrible news......

 

Air One to go long-haul with up to 44 A330s/A350s

Thursday June 5, 2008

 

Italy's Air One cemented its commitment to increasing its international profile with a firm order for 12 A350-800s plus 12 options and 12 A330-200s with eight options. Airbus said the aircraft will be used to "develop a comprehensive long-haul route network." The firm order, flagged by ATWOnline this week (ATWOnline, June 3), is worth $4.8 billion at list prices, with the deal potentially reaching $8.6 billion if all options are exercised. No delivery date or engine selection for the A330s was announced. Air One also has 65 A320s on order, along with 25 options that it expects to firm.

 

President Carlo Toto said the new order "is a key element in our company's growth strategy, with a view to achieving major developments in the intercontinental market over the next few years."

 

The Rome Fiumicino-based carrier will launch its first two long-haul routes later this month from Milan Malpensa to Boston and Chicago O'Hare aboard A330-200s. The newly ordered A330s will feature a two-class cabin seating 253 and the A350s will offer two classes with up to 287 seats.

 

The A350 XWB program now has garnered 374 firm orders from 23 customers, Airbus said.

 

by Cathy Buyck

 

Somebody else ordering the dreaded A350XWB...... why can't they order the Nightmareliner? After all, the A350 is still years away from being built........... whereas the Nightmareliner is ready to fly

[eltib 54]

Right now, the wings of all four airplanes are enveloped in basic scaffolding of the type you might see on a construction site. That's because the wings came from Japan so unfinished that they required much systems installation. The scaffolding gives the mechanics access all over the wings.

 

But Shanahan said he anticipates the next set of wings from Mitsubishi Heavy Industry, for Dreamliner No. 4, "may come in complete" with all required wiring and fasteners. He said the mechanics won't need the scaffolding, only cherry-picker-type lifts to reach their work points.

 

Asked about problematic areas in the systems, Shanahan said "two guys are on my list." He identified these as the suppliers of the airplane's power system (Hamilton Sundstrand of Windsor Locks, Conn.) and of its brake control monitoring system (a Burbank, Calif. unit of Crane Aerospace, a subtier supplier to General Electric).

 

Shanahan said he has promised Hamilton Sundstrand President David Hess a fabulous meal if Hess delivers everything he needs next month.

 

Shanahan also set out his optimistic expectations for a rigorous eight-month flight-test program, and a concurrent process for certification of the airplane by the Federal Aviation Administration.

 

He said that despite the embarrassing delays that mean some airlines will have to wait two years longer than anticipated for delivery of their Dreamliners, Boeing can now meet its newly revised schedule. The first plane is to fly by the end of the year and the first delivery should happen in the third quarter next year.

 

Shanahan said challenges can and will erupt unexpectedly: "This is a program where every half-hour somebody runs in my office and throws a grenade."

 

But he expressed cool confidence that each time this happens, "we'll dispatch the right people and resolve those issues."

 

You know what this story sounds like? The story on how shit happens at work? Anybody remember this?

 

THE PLAN

 

In the beginning was the Plan.

 

And then came the Assumptions.

 

And the Assumptions were without form.

 

And the Plan was without substance.

 

And darkness was upon the face of the Workers.

 

And they spoke among themselves saying, "It is a crock of shit, and it

stinks."

 

And the Workers went unto their Supervisors and said, "It is a pail of

dung and, we can not live with the smell."

 

And the Supervisors went unto their Managers, saying, "It is a container

of organic waste, and it is very strong, such that none may abide by it."

 

And the Managers went unto their Directors, saying, "It is a vessel of

fertilizer, and none may abide its strength."

 

And the Directors spoke among themselves, saying to one another, "It

contains that which aids plant growth, and it is very strong."

 

And the Directors went to the Vice Presidents, saying unto them, "It

promotes growth, and it is very powerful."

 

And the Vice Presidents went to the President, saying unto him, "This new

plan will actively promote the growth and vigor of the company with very

powerful effects."

 

And the President looked upon the Plan and saw that it was good.

 

And the Plan became Policy.

 

And this is how shit happens.

Edited June 7, 2008 by eltib

[BigDUSA 71]

Boeing Co said on Monday its 787 Dreamliner would make its first flight in the fourth quarter of 2008, repeating the revised schedule for the new airplane's launch announced in April.

 

Dmitry Krol, director of communications for Boeing in Russia and the CIS, said first deliveries of the plane were scheduled for the third quarter of 2009, also as previously stated.

 

"There is no change to the schedule for the 787 that we announced in April, which has us achieving power on by the end of June, first flight in the fourth quarter of 2008 and first delivery in the third quarter of 2009," said Krol.

 

The company clarified its schedule after Mike Bair, vice-president of business strategy and marketing at Boeing Commercial Airplanes, said on Sunday the plane would fly "by the end of summer".

 

Bair was speaking to Reuters on the sidelines of the St Petersburg Economic Forum. He did not say that the schedule had changed.

 

The fuel-efficient 787 smashed early sales records for Boeing and is seen by some analysts as key to the company's financial future.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Using "Quarters" gives Boeing a wide window to aim for, but to say flying by the end of summer could leave them with egg on their faces.

 

Even after powering up the Nightmareliner for the first time there will be loads of systems testing and systems integration testing to carry out before they can even carry out pre-flight testing. Remember that this is a prototype aircraft which will no doubt have it's fair share of bugs and gremlins to sort out.

 

So the reality is the Nightmareliner might be flying before the end of the year.!

[Samsonite 181]

To date there are 5 Boeing 787 in various stages of final assembly. One of the test airframes has already been moved from the assembly line to the testing rig.

Parts and sub-assemblies for the next 25 B787s are being built around the world. I just saw a picture of fuselage barrels for planes 13, 14, and 15, line up at the sub-contractor's factory.

 

At this point somewhere between 90 and 100 747-8s have been ordered while the remaining 747-400Fs are being completed. A new 747-400ERF was just delivered a couple of weeks ago. 27 of the ordered 747-8s are for the passenger version.

 

The sad part for you A380, the flying Citron, fans is the A380 will not replace the B747. Since the B777-300ER went into commercial service the airlines that need the capacity and the range having been replacing their 747s with the 777-300ER. It is actually longer than the 747-400 but shorter than the 747-8), has a MTOW 100,000 pounds less than 747-400, carries about the same amount of passengers, carries over 1,000 cubic feet more cargo, has a slightly longer ranges and uses two engines vs four so it saves fuel.

Boeing can't build the the 777-300ER fast enougn.

[wacmedia 277]

The fuel-efficient 787 smashed early sales records for Boeing and is seen by some analysts as key to the company's financial future.

 

Hi,

 

They are in serious shit if that is the case. It's very fuel efficient as it hasen't flown yet as far as I'm aware.

[TheFiend 1,181]

At this point somewhere between 90 and 100 747-8s have been ordered while the remaining 747-400Fs are being completed. A new 747-400ERF was just delivered a couple of weeks ago. 27 of the ordered 747-8s are for the passenger version.

 

There are 27 orders for the 747-8 passenger version.... of which Boeing has ordered 7. The only customer to have ordered it it Lufhansa, which was placed in 2006. The passenger version is hardly a success, is it Scally?

 

Incidentally... Lufthansa also has 15 A380s on order with options for a further 10, so the 747-8s have not been ordered in preference to the A380. Lufthansa ordered them to fit between the A340-600 and the A380, and of course received a very favourable discount to place the order.

 

In the passenger sector the 747 is now a dinosaur and the falling order numbers for it show it to be true.

 

The 747-8F gives the cargo operators increased payloads, so it was always going to attract orders.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

C'mon, Scally. You haven't exactly got a very good record at this prediction lark, have you?

 

"On time and to spec" and all that nonsense.

[Samsonite 181]

C'mon, Scally. You haven't exactly got a very good record at this prediction lark, have you?

 

"On time and to spec" and all that nonsense.

The game isn't over CheshirePom.

As of the end of May 2008, 25 customers have ordered 352 Boeing 777-300ERs (which first went into service in 2004, but was announced in 2000). Of that 352, 25 have been sold to yet unidentified customers and 51 to leasing companies.

The A380 has sold how many in approximately the same period of time?

Airbust will never sell enough of the A380s to breakeven. The market just isn't there.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Scalawag

[CheshireTom 1,377]

The game isn't over CheshirePom.

As of the end of May 2008, 25 customers have ordered 352 Boeing 777-300ERs (which first went into service in 2004, but was announced in 2000). Of that 352, 25 have been sold to yet unidentified customers and 51 to leasing companies.

The A380 has sold how many in approximately the same period of time?

Airbust will never sell enough of the A380s to breakeven. The market just isn't there.

 

Predictions. Predictions.

 

It doesn't seem so long ago that you were wagering Airbus would be out of business by now.

 

How about Boeing overtaking Airbus as the number 1 aircraft producer.

[eltib 54]

C'mon, Scally. You haven't exactly got a very good record at this prediction lark, have you?

 

"On time and to spec" and all that nonsense.

 

He has been, hasn't he? I guess I was too, but Boeing didn't meet my predictions. Just like I feel they won't be test flying until early 2009, if at all.

Edited June 11, 2008 by eltib

[TheFiend 1,181]

The game isn't over CheshirePom.

 

Airbust will never sell enough of the A380s to breakeven. The market just isn't there.

 

The game isn't over Scalywally....... you are right.

 

But let's compare the contenders.....

 

The A380 has 192 firm orders, with airlines holding options for a further 48. that's with 14 airlines, 1 leasing company and 1 VIP.

 

The 747-8 Intercontinental...... 1 Airline Customer with an order for 20, plus the 7 Boeing has ordered for itself.

 

Both planes are targeted at the high capacity intercontinental routes.

 

The market is there, as Airbus have proved - otherwise they couldn't have sold that many planes. As more and more enter service further orders will be won.

[Samsonite 181]

Then you should compare the sales of the 777-300ER to the sales of the A380, since, as I said, the 777-300ER, not the A380, is replacing the 747 at most airlines.

***

 

Boeing will continue to rely on 'disciplined approach' to 777 production rates

Thursday June 12, 2008

 

Boeing is coming under, and resisting, intense pressure from airlines to increase production of the 777-300ER, with the first availability for new orders now quoted as 2014.

 

With more and more carriers parking 747s, pressure is mounting for delivery of 777s, which burn 20% less fuel per passenger. In November, VP-Sales-Middle East and Africa Martin Bentrott told the Seattle Post-Intelligencer that production was sold out through 2012 with only a few slots available. In just six months, all of the remaining 2012 and all 2013 slots have been snapped up. Boeing has announced sales of 36 777s this year with a significant number of firm commitments yet to be signed.

 

Responding to ATWOnline, the company said it is "experiencing unprecedented demand for its commercial airliners and is constantly reviewing the complex process of matching demand with the physical and economic constraints of the production system." Currently it is producing 777s at a rate of 6.6 per month based on 33 deliveries through May 30.

 

While pleased with that demand, the manufacturer added, "In the past, Boeing, its employees, suppliers and its customers suffered the effects of a breakdown of the production process resulting from efforts to increase production too rapidly. Boeing is determined to produce efficiently through the market cycles going forward. This will allow us to maintain relatively stable employment levels, maintain high levels of quality and keep the residual values of airplanes high to protect our customers' investment in our products."

 

It continued, "This effort may result in us not being able to meet all customers' requirements in the timeframe they prefer. Ultimately, though, Boeing believes that a disciplined approach to managing production rates is in the best interests of all parties involved."

 

The company did not respond to a question about the effect of the 787 delay--up to 24 months in some cases--on demand for 777s as replacements for shortfalls in capacity.

 

Airlines also are waiting for Boeing's response to the A350-1000, which targets the lower end of the 777-300ER market. It stated that it has been waiting for Airbus to define the exact performance of the A350-1000. Last week Airbus briefed customers in Madrid and advised that the maximum takeoff weight of the -1000 is to climb by 2 tons, which may affect some range performance targets.

 

by Geoffrey Thomas

http://atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=12988

 

He has been, hasn't he? I guess I was too, but Boeing didn't meet my predictions. Just like I feel they won't be test flying until early 2009, if at all.

Power on started Wednesday, 11 June. You will be wrong on this one, and, as I said, the game isn't over on the A380. They have a long way to go to start their Power 8 program, if they ever get it off the ground.

Plus, Boeing out sold Airbus for many, many years, before the year 2000 and have out sold them twice since.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Plus, Boeing out sold Airbus for many, many years, before the year 2000 and have out sold them twice since.

 

Just goes to prove that if they were as good at building aircraft as they are at selling them then they might have been the #1 manufacturer by now. Unfortunately, they're not.

[eltib 54]

Power on started Wednesday, 11 June. You will be wrong on this one, and, as I said, the game isn't over on the A380. They have a long way to go to start their Power 8 program, if they ever get it off the ground.

Plus, Boeing out sold Airbus for many, many years, before the year 2000 and have out sold them twice since.

 

Scally,

 

You ever hear that song by AC-DC called "It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll?"

 

 

Well it's a long way before the 787 ever gets off the ground....Maybe Weird Al can make a parody using AC-DC's music.

 

Power up doesn't mean shit.. Hell when we use to power up the shuttle after a mod, that's when we found all the things that went wrong.

 

 

Now how are them apples?

Edited June 12, 2008 by eltib

[TheFiend 1,181]

Scally,

 

You ever hear that song by AC-DC called "It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll?"

Well it's a long way before the 787 ever gets off the ground....Maybe Weird Al can make a parody using AC-DC's music.

 

Power up doesn't mean shit.. Hell when we use to power up the shuttle after a mod, that's when we found all the things that went wrong.

Now how are them apples?

 

Apparently they expect it will take two weeks to fully power up the Nightmareliner..... and that's if everything goes to plan

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

If you were ordering planes for an airline which would you order ? A plane that has been a great plane but is past it's sell by date or the all new revollutionary A380 ? It's a no brainer.

[Samsonite 181]

If you were ordering planes for an airline which would you order ? A plane that has been a great plane but is past it's sell by date or the all new revollutionary A380 ? It's a no brainer.

One more time, wacky: There is nothing, absolutely nothing, revolutionary about the A380 other than its size.

Nothing. Big it is. Ugly, unfortunately, it is, but revolutionary it is not.

 

And, by the way, each new generation of the B747 it is updated to the latest technology available at the time, including construction materials, avionics, etc. Wings are redesigned, cockpits changed, etc., etc. From the outside it is a classic design, but from the inside out the latest technology is used. Boeing also updates their aircraft throughout its production cycle.

 

One thing is for sure. The B747 is one hell of a lot better looking than the A380. The A380 has to be a French design. Who else could build something so ugly and find it attractive.