Updated cost of living in Pattaya ????

[js007 795]

Well my rent is more, my internet less, but I really mess up on the 'Misc'

 

Yea, that "misc" category can get out of hand quickly.

 

Some guys write down every baht they spend. Maybe some of them can provide a better breakdown.

 

One thing I forgot was water. You've got to buy that all the time.

I also forgot the occasional top up card for my cell phone, my disposable contact lenses, OTC meds, and so on.

[bigdelta 46]

TYVM.How things have changed in the last few years.Now if the dollar would just come back....

 

 

Thee are plenty of threads on here about the cost of living in Thailand. If all you want to do is eat and sleep and watch TV or whatever, it doesn't have to cost you a lot, especially if you eat Thai food. On the other hand, if you go out screwing around every night at the bars, you can easily go through 150K baht a month. Living there, though, you probably wouldn't want to do that long term.

 

Here's a rough estimate of monthly costs for Pattaya at the lower end of the spectrum:

 

Rent 10K baht

Electric 2K baht

Food 5K baht, perhaps less

Internet 1.5K baht

Laundry 1K baht

Transportation 1K baht

Misc 2K baht

 

Let's say you can cover your basics for 20K baht. That would leave you 28K baht for entertainment. Not very much. You could go out and spend 4K baht seven times a mont, at most.

 

Keep in mind I didn't include costs for medical care or visa runs.

 

j

[js007 795]

In and of itself, I don't see the dollar rate as that much of a problem. A few years ago you got 38 baht, now you get 31 or so. I can live with that.

 

Another factor, though, is Thai inflation. If prices for everything are going up, that's an additional drag. Still, the rents seem reasonable and food is still cheap, so...

 

For me, I'll just make whatever adjustments are necessary to live within my means. I'll be back there in a few months.

 

J

[bigdelta 46]

In and of itself, I don't see the dollar rate as that much of a problem. A few years ago you got 38 baht, now you get 31 or so. I can live with that.

 

Another factor, though, is Thai inflation. If prices for everything are going up, that's an additional drag. Still, the rents seem reasonable and food is still cheap, so...

 

For me, I'll just make whatever adjustments are necessary to live within my means. I'll be back there in a few months.

 

J

 

That 38 to 31 drop is significant to me-almost 20%.

I'll be making a 10 day visit in July or August to help me decide if a 6 month stay is in the cards for a permanent move.49k is what my pension brings each month at the current rate of 32.45,which is up 1 baht from last week.The dollar will recover vs most currencies,albeit slowly.And I'm still 5 yrs from drawing Social Security....

Edited May 14, 2008 by LTGTR

[python 27]

On a budget of 68,000baht a month (1000 uk pounds) you can spend 2200baht a day (minus 300 for room equals 1900 per day) TRUST ME this is ample and you CAN live like a king on this. I posted a budget making post before and it runs into nowhere near 1900baht a day.

 

Guys,

 

I find this topic of great interest as I am now considering options. If I sell up and move to LoS I could spend upto around 6.5 mil Thb on a condo, but would probably rent for first 3 months until I bought. If I live of the interest from other savings and pension I receive this would bring me around 55,000Thb per month. Based on current poor exchange rates. I don't want a car, maybe a small motorbike. Obviously no rent to pay. Home to UK once a year. Condo must have communal pool, sat tv and internet. I would still keep about £10k/$20k extra in reserve.

 

One other thing, my Mrs from the UK would be coming also. I know this will increase outgoings in a few respects. But in many ways her presence would save me money, keeping me sensible and not still in party mode after the first week or so.

 

I'm 38 at the moment and I will receive in addition to above, £180k/$360k approx, in around 10 years.

 

I want to go asap, but mrs wants to wait about a year. I've been to Thailand/Pattaya many times and shes been twice to Pats and also many other parts of Thailand and Asia. She knows the score ok with Pats and doesn't mind. as long as I buy a nice place for her, not in central Pats.

 

My question is, do you think we could live ok/comfortably on the above figures now? So many conflicting estimates regarding budgets! could you not live ok in UK or US on £200/$400 a week if rent free? surely you could in Pats?

 

Am I still dreaming? or should I wait 10 years? Your thoughts welcomed.

 

Regards to all,

Edited May 16, 2008 by python

[soi6 0]

Phython,

 

You're 38, so rather young compared to most, so have many years of youth still in you. You say you have enough to buy a place for 6.5 M baht.. which for the baht at 32 is 203,000 USD.. If you were to invest the 203k at 4% conservatively you'd have $677/month income from it and an emergency fund greater than the 20k you mentioned set aside. That $677 a month could get you a nice place in Pattaya also.. You say you will make 55k baht a month, the $677 is 21.7k baht a month. To me the thought of locking up 30% of my income into a residence is rather large. I'd rent and have a much larger emergency fund.. and you'd be living off of 76.7k bath a month with the ability to get up and move if conditions beyond your control happened without having 1/3 of your worth invested in a condo.. You could find a place with a pool to rent for the 21.7k baht/month still, likely less I'm thinking if you were to pay for a full year at once or such..

I would rather live off of 76.7k baht a month in thailand than 55k baht..

[Owen` 2]

I don't see any way this can work and I suspect what we have here is a lack of some information and some erroneous perspective borne of being 38 yrs old.

 

You expect 55K baht per month at age 38 from interest on savings plus a "pension". To be drawing a pension at age 38 suggests you are disabled in some way, which introduces other issues.

 

Ignoring that for the moment, maybe a condo of adequate size for two people is indeed 6 million baht, but one suspects less. If you could downshift that number just 33% you would have an extra 7000 baht a month available. So here's the thing. Even if we talk in terms of 60,000 baht per month with no housing expense, I don't see how that funds two people -- especially with the presumed trip back to the UK each year (and any other travel you might do SEA locally). That trip home for both of you is 76K baht -- more than a month's expenditures -- and oil is driving that number higher every day.

 

 

The focal issue is that you have to fund two people. You'll need two transportation budgets, two entertainment budgets and two medical insurance policies. If you are in some way disabled, that medical budget could be particularly expensive. If you are not, then you are 38 and think you are immortal and will never have medical issues. You will, times 2 for both of you.

Edited May 17, 2008 by Owen`

[python 27]

soi6 & owen thank you both for replying, and all others for some great advice.

 

Like I said in my original post I could spend upto 6.5 mil on a condo. But I agree it would make more sense to buy a cheaper condo and have more cash each month so most likely thats what I would do. The figures that I mention regards monthly income are from interest on savings in a UK building society, that would obviously be greater, if I buy a cheaper condo and my pension that is a government pension, inflation linked and for life, so why could I not "expect" this amount monthly? I am fully fit and not disabled in anyway and nor is my wife. I am aware that 2 x medical insurance policies would be wise and would obtain them. As for entertainment and transport, I want to be in either, Naklua or South Pattaya/Jomtien and on the baht bus route or walking distance to it. Eat out modestly, 2 or 3 times a week and go into Central Pattaya for a drink maybe once a week.

 

Owen, you really think that this could not work? what information may I be lacking or erroneous perspective borne of being 38 yrs old may I have? Genuinely, I would welcome yours/anyones comments .

 

Regards,

[jacko 8,696]

Do you and/or your wife intend to get Thai work permits? I was curious to know what type of visa you and your wife would be using to live here, at only 38.

 

Currently I guess you pay withholding tax on your UK building society account, you could obtain tax free interest (once non-resident) but strangely the interest rates are often poorer in that environment.

 

Inflation will kill you.... it is quite high here right now, driven by rising oil prices, hence transportation and basic food prices. It has me concerned and I am somewhat older than you, without a farang wife to keep, and a bit more cash.

Edited May 18, 2008 by jacko

[python 27]

jacko,

 

Thanks for replying.

 

We do not intend to work in Thailand.

 

Spoke to Embassy in Hull regards visa. We rquire a Non-immigrant Visa. Cat O, Multi-entry. Valid for 12 months, if I leave and re-enter Thailand a few days prior to its expiry date, I get a further 90 days. So valid for almost 15 months. Then I must return to UK and get another Cat O Visa. I would require to do this until I am 50. Then retirement visa. We must both do this. My Mrs is a graduate and I think she could teach in Thailand. If I'm correct, and she decides she wants to do this, she applies for a Cat B Visa.

 

Inflation is a concern I agree.

 

Regards

[soi6 0]

Python,

 

Try this calc out...

 

 

Cost of Living Pattaya Calculator

 

 

Enter your scenarios, but keep in mind as others say...inflation and health insurance, 2 things that are in need of consideration.. The calc is a little old, but will at least give you some ideas on the things to consider.

 

When I think of retiring I always consider 4% as the safe withdrawal rate upon an invested portfolio.. That should statistically guarantee that it will last 30 years. Here are a couple of websites to go read some at..

 

Retire forum and 4% safe withdrawal rule

 

couple retired at 38 on 2-3k USD a month

 

Other places in Thailand...

 

Chiang Mai on $550 a month?

 

Udon Thani Thailand Page

 

Hope all works out well,

 

cheers!

[Owen` 2]

Several addenda:

 

1) You seem to have some kind of income from a government pension at age 38. Maybe such things happen in the UK. If so, okay, and yes, it is inflation indexed (for UK inflation, which will be different than Thailand's, higher or lower at different times, one supposes). That will lessen your concerns a bit. Jacko's mention of inflation remains legitimate, however, because of the other sources of income you have that do not appear to be indexed.

 

2) The various calculators online (like Firecalc) do indeed focus sharply on the magical 4% number, but that number is not absolute. It's designed around 30 years. You don't truly know your date of death. If you live 50 years to age 88, 4% will run you dry. OTOH, that 4% number is always quoted as upside sacred, but it ignores any future indexed pension, and almost all people in the US and probably the UK are going to get a state pension of some amount (Social Security). In general, for a modest lifestyle of 110,000 baht per mo, the likely correct number is 4.5% -- because Social Security is going to arrive. That 0.5% is quite large. It's a 12.5% increase in permitted annual spending. Also, that 4% number derives from a 95% confidence requirement. If you were willing to accept 85% confidence, you'll be north of 5%.

 

3) You need some exposure to shares of stock. Interest from bank accounts do not keep up with inflation. Shares of stock can. The companies endure increases in their costs, so they increase the price of their products to hold profit margins. That means they have defended against inflation and the shares should reflect that.

 

4) Health care will be good in Thailand. But you must know how much of your 60K baht per month it is going to be.

 

5) I know . . . I KNOW . . . the UK guys have had their attitudes about where they live defined by the explosive increases in home prices in the UK. But please try very hard to accept and understand that there is no law of the universe that says you must, or that it is a good idea, to own where you live in Thailand. Yes, rents can increase. But also yes, where you have your cash invested to fund rent can also increase. At any moment some decision could be made to confiscate private residences of farangs using almost any excuse. There would not seem to me to be any reason to endure that risk.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Owen`

[jacko 8,696]

Hull is a good visa source..... I have the same arrangement you are considering, but with the option of converting to a retirement visa at any time. As I like to return to the UK a couple of times per year, this isn't necessary.

 

You will need to factor in costs of 2 UK flights every 15 months,and of course 2x visa runs per 90 days. The flights are going to get more expensive.

 

I don't know how long Hull will be so liberal with the issuance of the Non-Imm O... German friends I talk to cannot easily get such a visa from one of their consulates or embassy.

 

I could not live on 60k/month, I support my Thai GF... admittedly I rent accommodation (but it isn't that much outside the tourist traps), also a car and 2 bikes to keep.

 

Occasional big ticket items can hurt... annual medical insurance, vehicle insurance, a new TV or computer, flight tickets..aircon packs in.

 

Listen to Owen regarding money issues... keep asking questions here regarding day to day living in Thailand, plan well.... calculate the budget on the high side and good luck.

Edited May 19, 2008 by jacko

[spike 236]

So I assume living on USD 1525/48k baht in Pattaya will make me a pauper?

What can I expect for that amount of dosh?

 

 

[BigusDicus 9,720]

Yuk!

[Gary 4,096]

I actually moved to Thailand three times. The last move was for retirement and to stay. Prior to the last and final move I had been out of the country for three years. I chose Jomtien to live and the bottom line is that I had no realistic idea what it would cost. I had many opinions from expats ranging from simply existing to being plain stupid and throwing money away.

 

The point being that everyone lives differently. I had to find out for myself what it was going to cost. I rented a pretty nice apartment and paid 8,000 baht per month with no contract but six months rent paid in advance. I hate budgets so I decided just to live exactly as I wanted and keep track of every baht I spent. I kept a very precise spread sheet with about ten different categories. I did this for about six months and found out that my spending was quite consistent at about 42,000 baht per month. Half of that was entertainment and could have been controlled if necessary. My initial exchange rate was based at 25 baht to a dollar. At that time the exchange rate was over 40 to a dollar so I had a healthy surplus.

 

To make a long story shorter, I decided to buy a condo because that would eliminate rent increases in the future and because the dollar was still strong. My costs dropped even more by eliminating rent. I was happy to know for sure that I would not have to live on a budget. Eventually I found a live in girlfriend and that saved even more money. Buying the condo turned out to be the best move I made. It has doubled in value and I now rent it out. I won't sell it because it is like my security blanket and I could not afford to replace it if my Thai wife ever decides to throw me out.

 

I have been very lucky because everything I had planned for a consistent income worked out. At this point I live in my wife's house and her household budget is 25,000 baht per month. She pays everything including buying my clothes and has money left to put in her savings account. I pay my bar tabs and for my infrequent getaway trips. I also pay my health insurance and vehicle insurance. I have quite a few unneeded toys but I like new toys and I can afford them.

[aussiechic 209]

Inflation is a concern I agree.

 

Regards

 

Are you guys referring to the inflation in Thailand is a concern.

 

We are well of compare to our friends here and we are starting to feel the pinch.

 

Fuel is a $1.50 a litre and soon to jump to $2.00 a litre according to yesterdays paper.

Cigs $15.00 a pack of 40.

Went to buy a carton of the old mans favorite alcohol yesterday and it has doubled $40 to $80 since March some new tax that has come in for buying in bulk.

 

With these 3 things alone we would better of traveling around Asia for the next couple of years.

Edited May 25, 2008 by aussiechic

[jacko 8,696]

Comparing prices to 'back home' is one thing that has been going on for years, yes of course the cost of living in Thailand is a lot less than there.

 

But nevertheless inflation is here too, and some guys who budgeted to live in Pattaya on 40-50,000 baht/month may need to move to 'village of the scratching chickens' for those numbers to work.

 

The amount I pay for food basics, alcohol etc has gone up.... and I put diesel in the truck yesterday, it is 37 baht/litre now rather than just over 32, a month or so back (been out of Thailand for a month).

 

As for the price of cigs, irrelevant....... a waste of money and an easy thing to economise on.!

Edited May 26, 2008 by jacko

[Guest cheap meat]

Would it be wise to buy rather than rent? I'd think it would save me some money over the long run. But how much?

 

As I'll be living(retiring?) off the proceeds of credit cards/loans/chargecards(lol. ) , I will only have about 35-70k a month to survive on. Hopefully enough if I can get 'free' poontang most of the time. I did manage to live sortof like a king last time on 2k baht a day last time.

[RWB 0]

Getting in on this thread a bit late, I was in Udon and just didn't check in. I always pay attention to Owen and Gary when it comes to budgets, economy etc. Some good advice there. I remember some time back that there was a budget thread here that was quite detailed and useful.

 

I think that one must have a basic idea of how and where they want to live in LOS, make sure that they have more than enough to live that way then adjust when they actually give it a try. I think the cost of living is always going to be more than what one hopes. I like toys too but there isn't any hunting in LOS, plenty fishing, although my wife keeps telling me Thai fish no like farang.

 

The exchange rate and inflation are my biggest concern at the present. I am not moving until early 2010 because the money isn't right for my retirement. When I do finish work, I will draw SS and 2 pensions for a total of about 2400usd a month. Not much, but more in LOS than it will be here. BTW both pensions are gov't and my health insurance from work carries over into retirement but will only cover 50% "out of area" ie LOS. I am married to a Thai lady, we won't be spending time in Pattaya (she doesn't like, maybe a few days when some of the old gang are all in town) and aside from buying a house (with farang features) we won't have much in the way of expenses. We do have 2 children to send through school and that is going to be a major expense, at present a bit over 20,000bht a year and sure to increase. If I get off my butt and get my VA disability then maybe a few extra usd. Not planning on coming back to the states maybe a trip to PI if I have the VA disability, but always have to keep unexpected trips etc in mind. Never forget the unexpected.

 

We won't have a lot, but we don't need a lot, just enough to not have to worry.

 

Oh and spike that was really uncalled for. UGH

[Owen` 2]

The exchange rate and inflation are my biggest concern at the present. I am not moving until early 2010 because the money isn't right for my retirement. When I do finish work, I will draw SS and 2 pensions for a total of about 2400usd a month. Not much, but more in LOS than it will be here. BTW both pensions are gov't and my health insurance from work carries over into retirement but will only cover 50% "out of area" ie LOS.

 

Two pensions plus SS only adding up to 29K is surprisingly low. You may want to recheck that. And if SS is part of it, then I suppose you expect to be 62 in 2010.

 

If so, recheck your health insurance. At age 65 many government health plans transition themselves over to Medicare, and Medicare won't send money outside the US. If this holds true for you, you really only get 3 years before you have a problem.

 

Inflation. I probably ought to babble in a different topic thread created for that purpose, but what the hell.

 

Oil.

 

The oil problem is happening in an election year in the US and the result of this is the two sides are gathering into their own little caucus to decide what approach will win votes.

 

I very much suspect that this problem is like predicting the stock or currency markets -- meaning no one has any idea of what is going to happen.

 

But I have been looking at this for about 10 years and I have some tidbits to offer that aren't getting much attention.

 

1) Probably 80% of the quoted oil reserves from various countries (especially in the Middle East) are not audited. Worse, OPEC has, for about 20 years, allocated pumping quota by reserve total. Yes, those quotas were routinely exceeded, but nevertheless they were imposed and countries paid attention to them. The point being, each country has had enormous incentive for those 20 years to increase their quoted reserves. Case in point, Iran. Iran has increased its quoted reserves total by 50% since just 2000, and they have done so with essentially a 0 exploration budget.

 

2) The Saudis are pumping about 8 million barrels per day. They have pumped as much as 1.5 million barrels per day more in the past. The US is still pumping 5 million barrels a day. Iran is at 3.75 million, and there are no projections of them pumping 5 sooner than 15 years from now. Additional to these curious numbers, Russia last year was expected to increase its production 2%. Instead, their 2007 production dropped 4%.

 

3) The average US calorie that goes in your mouth traveled about 1500 miles to get there. It is apparently more than that in Europe. If oil truly is running out, the trucks that bring food to the store shelves in cities are not going to drive. Starvation is going to arrive rather fast.

 

Bottom line: if oil's time has come, this is not going to be pretty.

[Guest cheap meat]

I've heard of these 'peak oil' theories. But I don't believe any of it. The reason that oil prices cannot stay where they are at is because alternative methods of creating/saving oil will be developed. You can make oil from coal, and coal is very very abundant. More likely the recent prices are just a temporary bubble that will burst in a few years. Some pain now, but hopefully it won't last long.

[js007 795]

I've heard of these 'peak oil' theories. But I don't believe any of it. The reason that oil prices cannot stay where they are at is because alternative methods of creating/saving oil will be developed. You can make oil from coal, and coal is very very abundant. More likely the recent prices are just a temporary bubble that will burst in a few years. Some pain now, but hopefully it won't last long.

 

Peak Oil is real. But keep in mind, they're talking about OIL. Coal or nuclear is another matter. Likewise solar. Still, according to the experts, all of those alternative sources won't serve as an oil substitute anytime soon, and we cannot drill our way out of the problem. How much longer do we have? 15 years?

 

After thinking about it a bit, I've come to the conclusion that the world can't function too well with oil at $130 and above. Just look at the airline losses, for example. Think of all the cargo that moves by air freight. Think of al the food that's trucked from place to place.

 

Maybe the high oil prices will cause a worldwide recession, reducing demand? Or, maybe, the USA federal reserve will begin to act responsibly and stop printing money. Hell, they might even raise interest rates. That should kill off oil speculation for a time.

 

All in all, I'm planning on trying to have fun over the next 10 years. After that, who knows how screwed up things will be?

 

J

[Owen` 2]

Peak Oil is real. But keep in mind, they're talking about OIL. Coal or nuclear is another matter. Likewise solar. Still, according to the experts, all of those alternative sources won't serve as an oil substitute anytime soon, and we cannot drill our way out of the problem. How much longer do we have? 15 years?

 

This is the first manifestation of politics in the matter. "Can't drill your way out of it" is a Democrat buzz phrase and they adopt it because environmental extremists are part of their donor base.

 

But if one is facing incipient starvation of cities (where Democrats live), one does have to ask a much more direct question . . . just what good is that oil doing anyone sitting underground?

 

Sure, if oil is depleting and its end is inevitable then alternative approaches will need to be sought, and yes, its "end" doesn't really arrive because oil shale and tar sands have yet to be harvested. [suncor in Northern Alberta harvests tar sands aggressively and has very nice production, but to get it they heat water with natural gas until it is high pressure steam and then they use that steam to blast the oil off the sand. There is some considerable question about the environmental aspects of that, but Canada prefers to just enjoy the production.]

 

However . . . there is always a however . . . there is no law of the universe that says decent alternatives are going to arrive. Nuclear, solar, wind and whatever do not ship food on trucks to cities and don't push 747s across the sky. Only diesel and jet fuel does that. The US Dept of Energy was created in 1978 and has been fully funded since then . . . and those alternatives haven't arrived.

 

Anyway, my read is plug in electric vehicles will not ship food to cities. Fuel cell vehicles won't either. Nor trucks with big solar panels on the roof. Or if any of those approaches are the eventual solution, they aren't going to arrive for a long time. If you want to eat during that long time, better start drilling.

Edited June 9, 2008 by Owen`

[RWB 0]

Owen, I know it is low, but that is life. I spent a lot of time in satisfying but low paying jobs, forest fire fighter, Park Ranger/Superintendent/Law Enforcement, bar bouncer, and anti-Vietnam War USMC Viet Vet. My New Mexico employment was cut short (at 13yrs) by my whistle blowing, resulting in the largest Risk Management out of court settlement in New Mexico history. That and my inheritance was eaten up by a sadistic ex-wife, a man-hating ball busting lesbian attorney and a man-hating ball busting judge. 1/4+ mil USD and a bankruptcy. I will receive a small pension from New Mexico half going to the cunt I was married to. I will have only 10 years service in the position I am in now, surveyor for a Drainage District in SE Texas so that is why the payout is so low. At age 65, I figure around 2,400usd a month for all, will have quite a chunk of change for my last check, aprox 18,000usd. My health ins does not change to Medicare and when it comes time to die I plan on staying in Thailand. So not much, and yes I am gambling a bit on my health which is damn good everything considering. I have done about as much of the budget math I can at present, of course I can't anticipate a disaster, but I am sure that I can live within my means until time to check out, I just won't be able to live like a king.

 

I do believe that we have to use the very best technology available and then drill, drill, drill. As long as we are dependent on our enemies to supply our life blood we will continue to decline. Just in case anyone thinks different I also think shrub et-all belong in one of their little CIA prisons and should enjoy all the programs they had for their previous guests with plenty of good 'ol H2O.

 

Thanks again for all the good info. Keep it up, we need it whether we always like it or not.