US Carriers

[The Mook 105]

This opinion from the NYT says it better than ever could:

 

December 14, 2007, 11:43 pm The Friendliest Country, and the Unfriendliest Skies, By Pico Iyer

 

Most visitors to the Unites States will tell you that service in American restaurants and hotels is generally as friendly and as unpretentious as you will find anywhere. I know that because I grew up in England, where every waiter in a rundown cafe greeted me as I were a summons to the police and every worker in an upscale place as if I were a fly that had landed on the duck à l’orange. In Japan, where I now live, service in even a convenience store is efficient, quick and impeccably polite, but you won’t get the genuine laughs or banter that you often find in even a bank in New York. Democracy finds its vindication, I often think, in the cheerful, ungrudging attention you get across what is perhaps the world’s most open nation.

 

Step into the air, though, and it all disappears. Why is it, I often wonder, that U.S. carriers have far and away the worst — most surly, inattentive and often snooty — service in the world? It’s a given that Singapore Airlines, Qantas and Air New Zealand, Cathay Pacific and the Japanese and Thai carriers will be several leagues above Northwest and Delta; but Royal Air Maroc, LAN Chile, Ethiopian Airlines and India’s Jet Airways are all in my experience infinitely cleaner, friendlier and more helpful than their counterparts in the world’s richest and strongest nation. Even the British carriers — British Airways and Virgin Atlantic — offer you cabin attendants who smile, make charming small talk and bring you what you want (what you hadn’t thought to ask for) instead of the large, angry and tired militants on U.S. flights to Japan, who act as if every question is an insult, and every passenger an injury.

 

Is it because these long-haul flights generally go to the senior personnel, who are mostly focused on the shopping that awaits them in Tokyo or Hong Kong? (Cabin attendants on even the smallest domestic flights are often gracious and attentive) Is it because of the pains taken by the employing airlines not to discriminate against the old, the weighty and the rude — though every other nation’s carrier still opts for the fresh, the courteous and the well-groomed? Is democracy, in short, showing its shadow side by reminding us that that frazzled, grandfatherly brute with a headache has rights the same as yours, even though he’s there (purportedly) to make you feel comfortable and you only to “sit back and enjoy the flight”?

 

Whenever I call United Airlines’s frequent-flier program, I am startled by the politeness and efficiency of the people manning the phones. Many of United’s ground personnel are cordial, business-like and ready to shoot you a favor, if they can. The frequent-flier program itself is more generous than it has to be and I’ve already asserted in this space that air travel is no worse than it’s ever been. Yet the fact remains that while you fly to Asia (and a gleaming new airport) equipped with six movies in your business class seat — and a shaky set of headphones — your poor cousin on Singapore Airlines is getting a hundred movies in economy class, and snacks whenever he feels like them.

 

Taking my regular, one-stop United flight from my mother’s house in Santa Barbara to my home near Osaka, Japan this fall, I missed my connection in San Francisco because my connecting United flight arrived two hours late. United kindly rebooked me on the same flight the following day, but when I asked for a hotel voucher and coupons for meals to get me through the unwanted 24-hour layover, its staff refused to help. “But it was your late incoming flight that caused me to miss my connection!”

 

“No,” said a very short-tempered man at an empty V.I.P. check-in counter. “Air-control tower error. You’re on your own, bud!”

 

“Just get me to Tokyo then,” I said, “and I’ll make my way home from there.” If I was going to have to pay for a hotel in San Francisco, I thought, I might as well get to Japan and take my chances there. Sure enough, after the United gate-agent reluctantly sent me on to Tokyo — reminding me, “Once you get to Japan, you’re on your own. We won’t help you!” — I flew across the Pacific, arrived in Tokyo, threw myself on the mercies of ANA, United’s Japanese partner — and was instantly and smilingly put on a flight down to Osaka (the flight United had said was full). The Japanese attendants all but apologized to me for my own presumption.

 

U.S. carriers lack, of course, the government subsidies that many other airlines enjoy; and any number of relative newcomers to the skies — from Jet Blue to Virgin America — promise to improve things a little. Yet still it’s strange that when it comes to one of the world’s most international industries, a place in Northwest’s business class has afforded me less comfort than a seat in the economy class of the national airlines of Bolivia, Cuba and even North Korea. Many United frequent fliers I know often head west from Los Angeles with Singapore, and east, to London, with Air New Zealand (United’s partners). Fly on those planes and you can even sit in a splendid lounge, if you hold a United gold card. United’s own lounge, however, is on domestic flights closed even to United gold card members.

 

Link: http://jetlagged.blogs.nytimes.com/

[MC_Ldop 40]

The author doesn't talk about the unions, which are part of why American carriers are crap.

 

When I fly United, I usually get the old hags from SFO to NRT. Sometimes NRT to BKK is staffed by young Thai women. They do a much better job and are infiinitely nicer to look at.

[rb 20]

The author doesn't talk about the unions, which are part of why American carriers are crap.

 

When I fly United, I usually get the old hags from SFO to NRT. Sometimes NRT to BKK is staffed by young Thai women. They do a much better job and are infiinitely nicer to look at.

same same NWA

the companys have envoked concetions from the unions, so that those with 20 or 30 years are mahing less now them when they started.

NWA only direct flight out of MSP, would love the option of others, but stuck with NW

adding 5-10hrs per trip not worth it.

so NW old pist off staff it is, unless you can get the "STUART" to help u with your seat!!

[joekicker 53]

rb, Can we keep the conversation to English?

Edited December 15, 2007 by joekicker

[Emil 0]

The author doesn't talk about the unions, which are part of why American carriers are crap.

 

When I fly United, I usually get the old hags from SFO to NRT. Sometimes NRT to BKK is staffed by young Thai women. They do a much better job and are infiinitely nicer to look at.

 

Its not only the unions. Up thru the late 60's the FA's on US carriers were quite attractive and shapely, in fact I had a close female friend get turned down becasue she was a few pounds over for her height and this was a former high school cheerleader and homecoming princess. Then the EEO got involved and everything went downhill.

[MC_Ldop 40]

Its not only the unions. Up thru the late 60's the FA's on US carriers were quite attractive and shapely, in fact I had a close female friend get turned down becasue she was a few pounds over for her height and this was a former high school cheerleader and homecoming princess. Then the EEO got involved and everything went downhill.

 

EEO should not apply to FAs, waitresses at Hooter's, etc. It's not right.

 

Looks aside, the attitude of the Thai staff from BKK to NRT is so much better than the usual hags (that were probably FAs in the '60s) haunting NRT to SFO/LAX.

[Emil 0]

EEO should not apply to FAs, waitresses at Hooter's, etc. It's not right.

 

Looks aside, the attitude of the Thai staff from BKK to NRT is so much better than the usual hags (that were probably FAs in the '60s) haunting NRT to SFO/LAX.

 

You should have seen the FA's on PSA back in the late 60's. They were stunning and those uniforms showed alot of leg.

[joekicker 53]

Not much question about the attractiveness of the Asian stewards, for those who prefer their boys metrosexual, with an "h".

 

But I've had nothing but good service from American carriers, on the ground and in the air. United has bent over backwards to the point of obvious discomfort on two occasions that Mrs Kicker needed help really badly within the last five years. She was in worse trouble, and got far superior help to that described by this whingeing traveller.

 

I have been moved to an earlier flight on a US carrier, or a later flight, in and outside of the US on numerous occasions. Recently, totally unasked, a United ground agent for no reason that I could discern simply arranged a different flight itinerary that took me an extra 1,000 miles (credited, I might say) and got me to my destination 3 hours earlier than my travel agent scheduled.

 

People who travel have horrible individual experiences. I have refused to go near Cathay Pacific for more than 30 years because of consecutive screwups in my flights. But obviously a lot of people like Cathay to death. It would be WAY out of line to slam Cathay or Chinese airlines because on two occasions they were totally, spectacularly incompetent, rude and offensive to ME.

 

I think this is a stupid story. The only legitimate stereotyping would be the obviously better looking Asian women serving you, but let's be honest -- "air hostesses" are basically waitresses. If you eat in a restaurant based on the booty of the staff, you're going to miss a lot of good eating. And when push comes to shove in a real emergency, do you REALLY want a 20-year-old, 98-pound person in charge of doing everything?

 

I have never had a really bad incident on an American carrier. It would be really over the top, uninformed and ridiculous for the New York Times to carry my story saying US carriers were always good and always provided excellent service based on my experiences -- even though I have (apparently, by the author's description) flown one hell of a lot more often, with a hell of a lot more airlines than the author of this questionable piece.

.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Joe,

 

I don't think I've seen any reputable poll in the last 10 years that placed any US airline (except for the regional low-cost airlines) in the world's top 10 ....... either from a passenger's or agent's point of view. That would seem to indicate that there are a certain number of shortcomings across the board as far as US carriers are concerned.

Edited December 16, 2007 by CheshireTom

[joekicker 53]

Yes, Tom, I agree with the polls and I personally think the general ambience and IN-AIR service on Asian airlines and even some from the dying continent -- BA, give them credit, hooda thunk that? -- are superior. (I would personally rate Qantas up there, by the way.)

 

But this story was about ground service, pretty much. And in the end it wasn't about polls, it was about the author's personal experience on one flight. You've never had really horrible ground service from an airline? Not ever?

 

Well, my experiences have been better. My ground services have been better with US airlines than Asian. Also my wife's.

 

The difference between me and the author is that the author, based on a single flight, says US ground service sucks. I wouldn't make any such silly claim and yes, it's silly, to be kind.

 

US airlines' in-flight "service" very often leaves much to be desired, but to be fair, the very worst "service" is on domestic flights where you have to bring your own food and buy your drinks, and there aren't a lot of smiles. It's not hard to beat that, and most non-US airlines beat it, especially Asian ones. No argument about that from me.

 

I have never had horrible ground service from a US airline and I could take up a couple of pages with horrible Asian airline experiences. But my point is -- THAT'S ME, not you and everybody else in the world.

 

.

[Hub 203]

Joe:

 

I have to disagree with you. You say that this story is about bad ground services, but the author clearly gives a nod to the UA ground service when he says:

 

Whenever I call United Airlines’s frequent-flier program, I am startled by the politeness and efficiency of the people manning the phones. Many of United’s ground personnel are cordial, business-like and ready to shoot you a favor, if they can. The frequent-flier program itself is more generous than it has to be and I’ve already asserted in this space that air travel is no worse than it’s ever been.

 

Also, I think any article usually includes first-hand examples, otherwise you would end up with an article that states "US carriers suck". Relating an experience does not presume that the same experience will be had UNIVERSALLY, just that the example may be representative of a general idea. In this case, I agree - US Carriers can't shine a light on many of their foreign competitors.

 

I've seen bad things from flight reps on NWA flights, to myself and others, that were so bad they were surreal. Bunch of pissed off union reps where some people are afraid to ask for a glass of water. I've also experienced so many over the top good things on some asian carriers. You mention CX - the first time i flew them I mentioned at JFK that my friend flying with me had a recent back operation (he got hit by a piece of the WTC coming down) and they upgraded us for free to business narita to bangkok.

 

In terms of ground services and FF programs, I tried for over two years to cash in my 130,000 miles on NWA for a biz class seat. I literally was totally flexible on travel dates. They just weren't giving it up. When I called CX to use my 120,000 AA miles for a biz class ticket, I got the ticket first call.

 

Does that mean all people have a similar experience to mine? No, but there are enough stories out the to prove a general consensus on US long haul carriers.

 

 

You stated

 

"US airlines' in-flight "service" very often leaves much to be desired, but to be fair, the very worst "service" is on domestic flights where you have to bring your own food and buy your drinks, and there aren't a lot of smiles

 

My last flight (hopefully ever) on NWA during November 2007 from USA to Thailand included 5$ beers, no smiles whatsoever, and crap IFE. They also ran out of the food choice both my wife and I wanted twice.

 

I don't drink as much anymore on flights, but the option of having a few JW blacks and watching a shitload of movies like SA or CX have makes a big difference on a 20+ hours in the air. Or just a litte common courtesy from the staff.

 

I can understand and Emil here has posted how good UA's FF program can be once you hit levels - but not my cup of tea.

 

Hub

Edited December 28, 2007 by Hub

[MM 6,562]

I think anyone who thinks US carriers are up to par with the other national airlines should read this thread I posted last month http://www.pattayatalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=34615 .

 

I did finally, after writing to the EVP of UAL, get a usable (for 1 year) upgrade for another flight...their customer service website contact ignored me for over a month.

[Harvey 249]

^

 

Thanks for the update on the "service dog" issue, Martin. I had been wondering what had happened on that.

 

I would have told the EVP of UAL that I would happily trade in (and not accept) the upgrade certificate if UAL had put in its computer system a blacklist of that lady so that every UAL employee at every airport was alerted to not fall for her story ever again.

[bigorange1 0]

ii am basically a cheap charlie but once you have flown on singapore airlines anywhere-i can almost guarantee you will never fly another airline regardless of price. and kris flyer lounges are outstanding...

 

i even hate to fly from las vegas to lax on any us airline-just my opinion of course...

[Sa-teef 44]

I've had generally good service from the frequent flyer staff with United and NWA, even if I had some trouble getting an awards flight on NWA as well. And the counter staff at United has gone out of their way on a number of occasions to assist. But efforts seem to end at that point.

 

I had the rudest, nastiest flight attendant in my entire life three years ago in United business class. We weren't even off the ground and she was bitching and snapping. This 200 pound bundle of charm was on the the ORD to Narita flight and near the end of the flight when I asked to see the chief to get her id number she was making everyone's life miserable in that part of business class.

 

But NWA has to have the worst of everything in US carriers. Once in the last year I had to use them for a short hop to ORD to catch my Korean Air flight, but a flat tire delayed us for a couple hours, just enough to miss my asian carrier flight. NWA then proceeded to send me to Detroit (delayed landing just enough to miss that one!) then MSP my origin (seems we're over booked after all) and finally LAX where they overnighted me and made me late by 24 hours into BKK. My last two trips I've made it back to LAX from BKK on time on Cathay Pacific, but the NWA flights from LAX to MSP are so late (3+ hours) that I miss my shuttle bus out of Minneapolis and I have to rent a hotel room to wait for a morning bus. And since I'm at my final destination they won't do a thing for me. NWA protects their sweet routes aggressively: try to book a non stop from MSP to LAX and 8 of 9 of them are, you guessed it, NWA. But they are so routinely late or canceling flights that it often times is more efficient to book another airline which on paper gets you there later and with stops on the way.

 

I truly envy the West Coasters who have options available to them with Asian carriers and avoid US carriers entirely...........

 

 

~Sa-teef

[BigDUSA 71]

I fly at least 50,000 a year on UA and generally speaking, I'm satisfied with the service. I'm a premier executive with their frequent flyer program and I'm able to book exit row seating and as far as using my frequent flyer miles usally I'm able to get first choice on my PHL-BKK flights. I could care less what the FA look like as long as I get good service