new year horror story

[nidnoyham 30]

Had a call from LOS today. It was about my ex workmate, who retired to Patts 4 years ago.

 

He like others, did his sums and thought he could " Just afford to do it" a fatal mistake, if you can just afford it, don't do it.

 

He had heart trouble in UK before he left, so no insurance company would give him health cover.

 

He had one small op' 2 years ago to put a balloon type thing in his heart, to open the valve. I had a text from him saying he was going in for an op' Xmas day, at a hospital in BKK. Unfortunately the pre op' showed that his heart was so badly damaged to put in another balloon would not work. He needs a triple by- pass and the cost is 800,000bht or there abouts. He hasn't got the money, he is desperately ill and using the money saved for his smaller op' to buy a ticket home. He has nowhere to stay here, as his kids didn't pay the rent on the house they lived in. He will need somewhere for at least 6 months, while he gets attention and aftercare- If he gets it in the first place.

 

So anyone in a similar situation to him, before retiring to LOS, bear this story in mind. Don't burn your bridges. Unless you have a solid amount of cash behind you, think very carefully about retirement. The other factor, is the distance involved in returning home for us. I am not sure if he will be accepted for travel if he looks too ill. I was telling his story to another ex workmate here today, who's wife works for Thai Airlines, hope I haven't made a boo-boo.

 

What if he has a heart attack on the 'plane half way home and the flight has to divert in the Middle East ? No insurance- nightmare !

 

I don't want to piss on anyones parade. Learn from others mistakes- you haven't got time to make them all yourself.

[aqua4 2]

Sad but true as I have always said someone will always try the impossible!

[tom21 19]

4 years is not bad. i would say he is not comlaining

[nidnoyham 30]

4 years is not bad. i would say he is not comlaining

 

Not complaining- just scared of dying and leaving a Thai partner and 5 year old daughter to fend for themselves.

 

Yeah, he's having a right laugh.

[touristman 1]

Heart trouble, no insurance, no funds back home.

 

I hope that the 5 year old Thai daughter isn't his.

 

If it is, i wonder what this guys educational level is.

 

Disgraceful.

[sinbinjack 251]

Heart trouble, no insurance, no funds back home.

 

I hope that the 5 year old Thai daughter isn't his.

 

If it is, i wonder what this guys educational level is.

 

Disgraceful.

get over yourself what right have you to to tell anyone how to live their lives ,this guy made a decision that he has to live with and you can only insult him.I expect you to come back with your normal(only normal for a lame brain like you) invective but you really are a useless waste of space.

[galt67 2]

NO ONE, regardless of age/health, should move to Thailand:

 

1) A GUARANTEED income to at least cover your basic needs of food, housing, etc.

2) OPEN Jaws airplane ticket to leave whenever necessary

3) An 'escape plan' to go back to your home country and start over if things go badly.

[Eneukman 1]

Heart trouble, no insurance, no funds back home.

 

I hope that the 5 year old Thai daughter isn't his.

 

If it is, i wonder what this guys educational level is.

 

Disgraceful.

 

Many people can't get full health insurance. I was diagnosed with high blood pressure a few years back and whilst it is now fully under control, many insurance companies will not cover you for problems likely to be caused by high blood pressure. I did find one company, which will cover me, but for a slightly higher premium so I will investigate them when my next premium is due later this year.

 

I could cover 800,000 baht without too much pain though.

 

Alan

[winner 0]

NO ONE, regardless of age/health, should move to Thailand:

 

1) A GUARANTEED income to at least cover your basic needs of food, housing, etc.

2) OPEN Jaws airplane ticket to leave whenever necessary

3) An 'escape plan' to go back to your home country and start over if things go badly.

 

 

So true. I have been here for 5 years now and wish that I could have come sooner BUT had to wait until my financial situation was well above borderline. I feel sorry for the guys who jump too soon and end up in a bind. Look at Larry from Secrets. I have a problem with others who put common sense out of their decision making and encourage others to go for it. I met a man who is in his late 50s and has been here for almost 20 years recently. He is scared silly because he has no future. He came here way to soon and stayed with a litlle money in the bank to last him. That money is long gone and he finds odd work to do which gives him enough money to provide minimums for his wife and two children. She works also. While others have been saving money or building pension credits he has nothing now and never will. It is frightening. He truly regrets his decisions but cannot do anything about it now.

[nidnoyham 30]

I could cover 800,000 baht without too much pain though.

 

Alan

 

Can I watch as you count it out ? By 300,000, you will be in tears man.

 

I could have added that he owes the I.R over £1200 + interest and he recently canceled the payments on his outstanding C. Cards debts in the U.K. Thinking he will never go back. In case you are wondering, I told him to go home 2 years ago to sort himself out, but I think he felt that would be losing face- he's thinking like a Thai now.

[Eneukman 1]

Can I watch as you count it out ? By 300,000, you will be in tears man.

 

I could have added that he owes the I.R over £1200 + interest and he recently canceled the payments on his outstanding C. Cards debts in the U.K. Thinking he will never go back. In case you are wondering, I told him to go home 2 years ago to sort himself out, but I think he felt that would be losing face- he's thinking like a Thai now.

 

Payment would still hurt me, but it wouldn't put me into a financial bind.

 

If he fails to pay his tax bills, he should at least get a home of a sort for a year or two. He should probably declare himself bankrupt.

 

I hate to think how much tax a friend's cousin must owe by now. Most of his jobs have been at the fishing, where the crew are regarded as self-employed and paid in cash. Of course, I would be very surprised if he's ever completed a tax return in his life so if the Revenue ever catch up with him, he will be facing a length stay courtesy of Her Majesty. He will also be totally fucked when he tries to claim his old age pension as they are likely to ask "Who the fuck are you and why have you paid fuck all in National Insurance contributions?"

 

Alan

[Owen` 2]

The guys above understand the issues in general. Here are a few specifics, and some hopeful words for the future:

 

1) Health Care Insurance: The guys from the UK have a lot more educating of themselves to do on this than Americans. National health plans don't cover people outside the borders. It is up to each person to find insurance. THIS IS HUGE. It is also a very subtle thing that no one wants to think about or research and so the intricacies of what this means do not get discovered.

 

2) Heath Care Self Insurance: This is the primary temptation for guys on a pension. "On a pension" means they have been working in a big corporation and that means they have been on an employer sponsored health care plan all their working lives. It is likely that this ends on day of employment end. So a guy receiving a pension, kicking back and seeing that life is paid for by that pension, feels that all is well. But if a huge lump sum expenditure arrives, like a triple heart bypass, he has no lump sum to pay it. Pensions Are Likely To Erode And They Have A Weakness. This is it.

 

3) Pre-Existing Conditions: Group plans cover these. Individual plans do not. The only way to make coverage for this profitable for an insurance company is via spreading of the risk across a broad population. Make no mistake about it -- there will not be insurance unless it can be done profitably. National plans are not going to extend to cover people outside borders unless enough voter clout exists, and "enough" is defined as . . . enough to counter the enormous lobbying power of domestic medical industries who will view themselves as "robbed" of revenue when people get medical care elsewhere.

 

4) Group plan creation: AARP (American Assoc. of Retired People) is trying to arrange this in the US. A group plan for people over 50. No question at all these plans will be much more expensive than group plans for employers (who have younger employees to balance out older employees), but a spreading of risk across the 50+ population WILL help some and probably permit insurance companies to profitably accept pre-ex conditions. The UK guys should pressure their own retirement lobby groups to create group insurance plans and maybe get them extended across borders.

[sinbinjack 251]

My point is that each man (or woman) must make the decision that is comfortable for him (or her) at the time,there are many like me who would not be financially secure in the UK but comfortable in Thailand .I also have pre existing conditions that would make it hard for me to get Health insurance

but It would not make me think I could never move to Thailand full time (I don't plan to and neither do I want to).I do agree that an exit strategy is sensible but I still wont hurl insults at anyone who took a chance and fails because there are more than a few who have taken the same chance and succeeded.

PS a special note for all the US citizens we in the UK for the most part have no knowledge of private health care and consequently there are many that make plans to live outside the UK and forget to factor in health care as we are taken care of free at home.Its just a different mindset.

[touristman 1]

get over yourself what right have you to to tell anyone how to live their lives ,this guy made a decision that he has to live with and you can only insult him.I expect you to come back with your normal(only normal for a lame brain like you) invective but you really are a useless waste of space.

 

fuck off fatboy (is that the invective you expected?)...........i'm not telling anyone how to live their lives, just commenting that i think it's disgraceful thoughtless behaviour.

 

I do hope that this young child isn't his 'responsibility' (is that the right word talking about this guy?) as fathering a child in his situation would be extremely selfish IMO.

 

So, sinbinfat, wrong again you fat prick (sorry, i mean fat man with a tiny prick )........learn to read

 

(not in this guy's situation yourself are you?)

[ginseng 0]

Excuse me how old is the man in question who needs heart surgery?

Edited January 2, 2008 by ginseng

[nidnoyham 30]

Excuse me how old is the man in question who needs heart surgery?

 

Mid fifties.

 

I didn't start this thread to kick someone who is down. I just wanted to show what can happen on a shoestring budget.

 

Yes the little girl is his. She is the main reason for him living in LOS. He has no family in U.K bar his estranged Thai wife and her two adult children. His wish was to watch his daughter grow up. It has just gone horribly wrong for him.

Edited January 2, 2008 by nidnoyham

[sinbinjack 251]

QUOTE from Tourist man.

fuck off fatboy (is that the invective you expected?)...........i'm not telling anyone how to live their lives, just commenting that i think it's disgraceful thoughtless behaviour.

 

I do hope that this young child isn't his 'responsibility' (is that the right word talking about this guy?) as fathering a child in his situation would be extremely selfish IMO.

 

So, sinbinfat, wrong again you fat prick (sorry, i mean fat man with a tiny prick biggrin.gif )........learn to read alright.gif

 

(not in this guy's situation yourself are you?) QUOTE from Touristman

 

(I edited this because i first quoted my own post in replying to the little man so I now take the chance to change it for the right quote)

 

There there little man mummy will make it all better just go to sleep .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Mid fifties.

 

I didn't start this thread to kick someone who is down. I just wanted to show what can happen on a shoestring budget.

 

Yes the little girl is his. She is the main reason for him living in LOS. He has no family in U.K bar his estranged Thai wife and her two adult children. His wish was to watch his daughter grow up. It has just gone horribly wrong for him.

I could see that you didn't try to be nasty and were only posting for opinions ,but there are some on this board, who are quite easy to spot, who enjoy the difficulties of others and enjoy making light of their problems for their own amusement.

Edited January 4, 2008 by sinbinjack

[ginseng 0]

I appreciate this post. We all go wild dreaming of living la vida LOS and giving our home lands the middle finger. But many of take the high wages and social security of our home lands for granted and may be priming ourselves for a nasty wake up call if we cut ties too soon and end up a few 100,000 baht short on the hospital tab. I am cutting ties myself but a proper exploration fund and an eye on continuing my career are key to me.

[Owen` 2]

nidnoyham,

 

There is maybe another oblique maneuver available. You say he has adult children by an estranged Thai wife.

 

This means the new little girl is their half sister.

 

Odds low they will care, but weirder things have happened. They may want to meet her and help her out at some point. That reduces some pressure on him.

 

As for the operation, when your arteries are clogged to the point where angioplasty can't be tried any longer and artery grafts have to be done, the situation is pretty urgent.

 

I think he needs to be headed home immediately. He may be able to check online somehow to determine if NHS is going to know who he is and recognize he is entitled?

 

One thing I think you have not read correctly . . . the thing about needing 6 mos recovery. For certain he'll need multiple months of follow-up, but given no living quarters (those same kids mentioned above are apparently deadbeats like him (re the credit cards)) it seems reasonable to head back to Thailand after a few weeks and do follow up in Thailand. Just have him bring all this medical records with him.

 

Yes, he has to pay for Thai follow-up, but presumably that will cost a great deal less in money and stress than 6 months of rent, dodging Inland Revenue and the credit card companies.

 

What is utterly bizarre to me is someone thinking they have enough money to retire and last the rest of their life and then run out in 4 years. Was that his definition of "the rest of his life?" Maybe it will turn out that way, but how can anyone do the math that badly? From 50's at least 25 years seems reasonable. How could he have done the math for 25 years and run out in 4? That is one HELLUVA lot of beer.

[nidnoyham 30]

nidnoyham,

 

There is maybe another oblique maneuver available. You say he has adult children by an estranged Thai wife.

 

This means the new little girl is their half sister.

 

Odds low they will care, but weirder things have happened. They may want to meet her and help her out at some point. That reduces some pressure on him.

 

As for the operation, when your arteries are clogged to the point where angioplasty can't be tried any longer and artery grafts have to be done, the situation is pretty urgent.

 

I think he needs to be headed home immediately. He may be able to check online somehow to determine if NHS is going to know who he is and recognize he is entitled?

 

One thing I think you have not read correctly . . . the thing about needing 6 mos recovery. For certain he'll need multiple months of follow-up, but given no living quarters (those same kids mentioned above are apparently deadbeats like him (re the credit cards)) it seems reasonable to head back to Thailand after a few weeks and do follow up in Thailand. Just have him bring all this medical records with him.

 

Yes, he has to pay for Thai follow-up, but presumably that will cost a great deal less in money and stress than 6 months of rent, dodging Inland Revenue and the credit card companies.

 

What is utterly bizarre to me is someone thinking they have enough money to retire and last the rest of their life and then run out in 4 years. Was that his definition of "the rest of his life?" Maybe it will turn out that way, but how can anyone do the math that badly? From 50's at least 25 years seems reasonable. How could he have done the math for 25 years and run out in 4? That is one HELLUVA lot of beer.

 

Owen.

 

I don't think he will get much help from his wifes kids, because they are not his. He adopted them as youngsters, the wife buggered off and left them with him once she had the Brit' passport. The daughter is a lovely person, but now married to a Nigerian, who doesn't work, hence the loss of the rented house. The son is Gay and without going into details, a waste of space.

 

His wife has subbed him most of the money for the intended op', but for some reason, he isn't asking her to help with accommodation over here. I had another call last night from a work mate who has a one bed flat. He is willing to put him up for a while. The person in question is coming over next week. As for checking a National Health website, that is another thing, he has less knowledge about computers than I have. If he is taken to hospital on arrival, what details can he give them ? Address? Phone number? Next of kin ?

 

Without this heart problem, he would be o.k for living in LOS on his pension, but no plan B. As I said, he could 'just afford it'.

 

So, he will arrive here, with no U.K address, not even a Sim card for his phone on arrival. Thinking about it, he won't even be able to change his bank account to a more favourable one, without some proof of address in the UK. The more I think about it the worse it gets.

 

Everyone who has visited him in the last two years has given him the same advise- to go home. At the time he still had a house to go to. Then the kids stopped paying the rent.

 

You can't help being as angry with him, as you are sorry for him.

Edited January 3, 2008 by nidnoyham

[vidman 2]

1. Go to social Security for emergency accomodation.

2. Ask social Security for hardship fund.

3. Register with a GP and arrange a refferal to heart specialist.

4. Tell Credit card companies about financial situ and arrange small regular payments(civil case so no worries about prison etc)

5. Contact Tax office for payment plan too.

 

The main problem he has is the airplane journey. If he can pull this off then everything else is do-able. I would stay in Uk till he has sorted his health problems out to a satifactory level and then continue his life in LOS.

 

p.s. I'm not saying the above list is easy but only stating that there is a way out of this problem.

[Emil 0]

Not complaining- just scared of dying and leaving a Thai partner and 5 year old daughter to fend for themselves.

 

By chance does he have life insurance? Even a small amount by US and UK standards would go a long way in LOS if used wisely.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Its a sad story but one that can be unavoidable as we get older. As Alan said many of us find it hard to get insurance even if we have the inclination. Just hope I stay healthy till I go.

[Owen` 2]

nidnoyham,

 

I'm an American and the details of what the UK does for the totally penniless must necessarily be a complete mystery to me. I am a numbers person so I can weigh in with thoughts on things that are probably universal.

 

1) If his pension is just enough to "get by" in Thailand, then it is not enough to get by in the UK, and though it seems obvious that "he should go home and stay", maybe that's not the best thing. If his pension can't pay for life in the UK he has to go back to work. Do not underestimate how hard this is to do, for anyone. It is easy for young folks to sneer and say "I have to work so he bloody well can too", but there is a big difference between 55 and 35. What sort of work can be expected of a man who is recuperating from heart disease 6 months of a year?

 

2) So his kids were adopted, but nevertheless raised by him. Yes, this means there would be even less interest in the new daughter as a sister. But it also explains a bit more of his mindset -- this new biological child would become a major focus.

 

3) So let's just get through all the emotional stuff and look at the numbers. He needs an 800K baht bypass operation. He doesn't have 800K. I presume he is not married to the girl in Thailand so Thai insurance doesn't cover him (I am not sure it covers farang spouses, regardless). So what this all comes down to is this:

 

a. Someone get on a computer and verify NHS knows who he is and will do the operation on an emergency basis. Verify also that his Inland Revenue back taxes problem does not shut off medical care. One would think it might. If it does, add that number to the numbers below.

 

b. Forget the credit cards for the time being.

 

c. Six months rent anywhere at all is going to cost what, 4,000 pounds? Add utilities for 6 months to 1200 pounds. Food another 1000 pounds? Transportation 6 months 300 pounds? If rent is free, he still needs 2500 pounds to live for 6 months (no idea what UK costs are, though). That is what, 185K baht. He can't do this 6 mos in the UK for less than 185K baht even with free rent. His pension can cover that? If so, does it mean he sends no money to Thailand for 6 months to his lady and daughter? This would lead her to consider him having run out on her.

 

d. If he marries the Thai lady in Thailand, does he get Thai medical insurance and local coverage there?

Edited January 3, 2008 by Owen`

[sinbinjack 251]

very little in the way of morals on this board.

 

Sooooooooooo selfish of a guy in this chap's situation bringing a small child into the world that he can't take care of, look after and provide for until at least adulthood.

 

Just scum.

 

Along with scum apologists like SINBINJACK, i made that right choice not to bring children into this putrid world to breathe the same air as the scum.

(SINBINJACK................be very careful.You are calling me a waste of space because i criticise this irresponsible Englishman who SHOULD KNOW BETTER...............you had better watch your comments with me you fat sex tourist fuck, this is a matter of morals, decency and ethics.............say one more word, or even imply towards me, and i will be meeting you at the FLB to DEMAND and apology and some respect of decency..............i'm serious, you fat fuck........don't argue against what's correct and decent just because you don't like me..........OK?)

Whats the problem little man .is your keyboard stuck in stupid mode ,never mind mummy will try to fix it for you and she will buy you a better vocabulary for your birthday.