atlas2

The Lions would have still won with O'Driscoll........ and a better balance of representation between the home countries. Not one Scot worthy?......Bollocks!! Gatland says he takes no pleasure from being proved right. First man in history then!!

"They paved paradise.....Put up a parking lot........."

'The Irish Cowboy' by Rick O'shea 'A guide to Double Glazing' by Patty O'Doors

"Oh Teelack I'm in trouble." "Well goodness gracious me!!" "When everyday on pattaya beach I'm standing in the sea. My heart begins to throb.......As the turds begin to bob.......It goes, Boomboodyboom boody boomboodyboom. "Well goodness gracious.(how turdacious)....Goodness gracious, (how Bombaycious)! Goodness gracious Mee!"

I keep getting the same.......But I like it!

You've seen the messages in French that come and go? Any co-incidence?

My son says......Pan Pan and cafe le Mar in Jomtien are the best..... Both thin crust. He too disliked 2 of the 3 Python gave a thumbs down to.

Thank you for that!!!

http://www.nndb.com/people/201/0... Do they always state which Bishop makes the decision? I don't know? Seems clear he WAS excommunicated though and gives the year. The list above has some surprising names........ We're not on it nkped....... I might be soon at this rate. (Can they excommunicate non- Catholics?) Editors note: Spookily enough I've just noticed one more "Reputation point' and I have the, 'mark of the Beast'

I haven't mentioned the Spanish Inquisition UnFortunately it wasn't an English one......

I'll come to the quote, (mantra) that seemingly inspired this challenge at the end. I fully accept your point 'BigusDicus" there are more dangers in the world than just those that spring from religion. And I couldn't do the math on the number of heads sent rolling, or beating hearts torn from chest cavities to ensure the next day's sunrise or the grain crop. I couldn't calculate the crucifixions, suti burnings, pogroms and religious wars that have taken life since Man first invented the gods. But it's a lot......before machine guns, before gas........before ovens....... and in an emptier world.......It's a HELL of a LOT. WWII was not a religious war, though if you asked a 1940's Warsaw Jew for his 5 shekels-worth he'd have likely nodded off his homburg in stating that it absolutely was. And he'd have had a point. Hitler AFAIK never renounced Catholicism, 25% of his top NAZIs were practicing Catholics....... The Vatican was pretty silent about Jewish persecution and continued to order prayers be read for Hitler in church and in the Vatican itself on his birthday throughout the war. True the Vatican made a stand of sorts.......One top Nazi WAS excommunicated, Goebbels. He was 'disowned' not for his connivance in mass murder and the attempted extinction of Europe's Jews, or for other war crimes. (This was done before). His crime in the eyes of the church.... he'd married a protestant. That was definitely crossing the line......More so it seems than anything his fellow officers did that followed WWII was not a religious war but religion played 'some' part in it. Stalin, the atheist used the apparatus of control previously monopolised by the Tzar and the church. The brainwashing, the idolatry.... to become 'godlike' He simply replaced Communism for religion and was worse than what he replaced.........Ditto Mao..... ditto Pol Pot and North Korea's dynastic dictators. But the crimes that they committed weren't committed in the name of atheism. However, this was the original quote/mantra that sparked your 'Challenge': "Left to themselves good people will do mostly good things. To make a good person to act in a truly evil way .....that takes religion." These are not my words, but for me what I think they are expressing is not that religion is the only danger in the world. Stalin, Mao and the others were not 'good people' turned to evil in the name of God or in the cause of atheism. They were bad people made worse by power. Using WWII as an example. Many Germans followed orders. They knew they did evil in those camps. Some I'm sure believed they were doing right for their country, some no doubt enjoyed the killing but ordinary Germans allowed themselves to be coerced. You followed the line or you and your family suffered alongside the Jews and the cripples, the gypsies and the gays. But they knew they were 'doing' wrong.... that they were doing evil. It was on their conscience. But the power of religion to take control of the good is much greater than the product of coercion. The 'ordinary' Pakistani girl who, wearing a bomber's vest climbed aboard a bus taking other girls to school in Quetta last week, left to herself without the taint of religion, I'm pretty sure would have just gone about her life in a normal way. Instead, she 'believed' she was doing Allah's will. She had God on her side. Killing those innocent girls was God's work. She was doing a good thing. Religion is dangerous.

"Left to themselves good people will do mostly good things. To make a good person to act in a truly evil way .....that takes religion."

I agree...... Logically there shouldn't have been anyone left alive to receive the decalogue, or 10 Commandments if mankind had had no sense of right or wrong before Mt Sinai . .......That's if the flight from Egypt had actually happened.

If you've read or watched a lot of Hitchens and you still feel these questions are unanswered there's nothing new I could add.

I'm going to see 'Back to the Future' yesterday!

Hitchens is a personal hero who I think more people should become familiar with....So I can't bring myself to apologise!!

Your username says it all.......I don't recall us having a 'tiff' but I'm glad anyway that you're 'through your personal 'crisis'. 'Crisis' is greek for 'opportunity' though it never feels, or appears that way. Personally I don't think you need apologise anymore than you have.....Just change your username to 'Olderandwiser'

Editor's note. "Got the decorators in" British/Australian Slang for 'period' or menstrual cycle. See also 'Japanese flag'

Who's the Decorator?? I don't know...... but the girl that just left my room had him in!

Holiday back in the balmy UK has been great........But.... Roasts, curries, Chinese take-aways, English breakfasts, (with pampered pig bacon), fish an' chips............Chocolate digestives, toasted buns, pate, mature cheddars, kettle crisps..........Doom Da and Rebellion bitters........ No exercise or sex has taken it's toll............ 3 Kgs more round the belly My first month back will be spent living in Pupen and the likes, living on boiled fish and papaya bok-bok just to get back to the point where I thought I was a bit overweight!

While on a bus rumbling into BKK a few weeks back, I saw 4 giant 'pots' of water on the side of the road. Two of these pots were occupied, a Thai man sitting nonchalantly in each, shoulders submerged and watching the heavy traffic. I did wonder?? But only for a few seconds..........The bus trundled on and into sight came an open-hatched Sukumvite sewer and a figure emerging ........... wearing only shorts and shit! I think I'd turn to crime rather than have to hold down the contents of my stomach in order to hold down the 'nine to 5' these poor 'w'retches endured.. I agree with Gary but I think this qualifies as one of the few things worse than an overflowing bog and served to remind me that some Thai ways remain feudal

I'm in England..............

A novel attribute of having a Thai wife I hadn't considered ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,A Substitute for my tired taste buds. "Does this taste good to me?" "Yes it does tilac...... But don't speak with your mouth full of poo......"

On my first trip in 2001 I chose to jump in at the deep end. 'The Eden Bar' BKK soi 7/1 was my first 'newby' experience in Thailand. And though I couldn't say what it's like today, or what the 'Devil's Den', it's equivalent in Pattaya is like........ it was an unforgettable 90 mins. Soapies are also a 'must do' I reckon......