ongoing costs of owning a condo

[tom21 19]

there are a lot of posts on the pro's and cons of buying a house or condo which i find very interesting. the only thing missing seems to be the on going costs. i like to know what these are and as an owner of a condo do you have any input into the running of the building.

[Gabor 296]

There are big-big differents between the condos. In some condos you pay for a month for the maintenance what I pay for a year.

 

I can prefer about the View Talay 2.

 

Annual maintenance fee is 3600 bht

Annual sophon cable TV is 3000 bht

 

That's it....

 

Water usually less, than 3-400 bht / mont

Electricity depends from the usage of the air con: 400-2000 bht / month

Cleaning service 150-200 bht

Laundry: 5-20 bht / item ( bedding 20-100 bht / item )

[bangkapiboy 5]

That is the best thing about owning a condo in Thailand -- the low "ongoing costs". Low maintinence fee.

 

No property taxes on your condo.

[BigDUSA 71]

There's a huge downside to low maintenance fees. As the building gets older and the elevators need to be overhauled or the roof needs to be replaced. It going to tough to have a large maintenance fee increase approved by the condo owners.

 

BTW property taxes are coming. Foreigners are an easy target for the local government to hit up. What are you going to do, refuse to pay?

[Tengotodo 52]

I have read this and other similar threads because I'm interested in the subject. Seems to me the majority of expats favor renting rather than owning. As for me, the jury is still out.. ... but...I do put a lot of stock in experience.

[sexy beast 12]

I have read this and other similar threads because I'm interested in the subject. Seems to me the majority of expats favor renting rather than owning. As for me, the jury is still out.. ... but...I do put a lot of stock in experience.

This is my opinion: Thailand isn't your average usa/england etc. We come here, look to solidate our position in our new found heaven.

 

Thailand is Thailand, it remains Thailand because the laws that be don't allow forieners to own too much!

 

I would myself, never trust the system! a new law/ different law brought by the powers that govern "our" paradice! can turn on you within an instance!

 

You own this/you own that? Thailand has stayed Thailand for a long time now!

 

IMHO its a good thing!

 

As for owning a condo! BigD has a point (as usual)

 

[torrenova 644]

Annual maintenance at 3600 * 250 (rough approximation for VT2) = 900k. Out of that you have insurance, maintenance, repairs, security, accounting costs, salaries etc. Doesn't leave a lot for a sinking fund.

 

Then again, even if you had to put in a new lift, you'd be splitting the cost between 250 people (equivalent) so the cost per condo would not be much.

 

What you have to balance is depreciation (interior), internal maintenance, value appreciation (if any), maintenance costs etc. versus rental charges and likely rental charge increases. Yields are very low here.

[Gary 4,096]

The maintenance fee for the Lalana complex is 10 baht per square meter per month. That also covers insurance and security. The condo association has BIG baht in the reserves, millions of baht. For the past two years they have been giving back some to the unit owners. My unit fee is 600 baht per month and I got back 2,000 baht.

 

Beware of the complexes that are NOT sold out!

[Gabor 296]

Out of that you have insurance,

Andy, what kind of insurance you are talking about ? I didn't know about it.

[Gary 4,096]

Well, I'm not Andy but the insurance Lalana has is for the building and not for your contents. It does include water damage so if your neighbor on top of you floods your place the damage is covered.

[Eneukman 1]

There are big-big differents between the condos. In some condos you pay for a month for the maintenance what I pay for a year.

 

I can prefer about the View Talay 2.

 

Annual maintenance fee is 3600 bht

Annual sophon cable TV is 3000 bht

 

That's it....

 

Water usually less, than 3-400 bht / mont

Electricity depends from the usage of the air con: 400-2000 bht / month

Cleaning service 150-200 bht

Laundry: 5-20 bht / item ( bedding 20-100 bht / item )

Gabor, I take it that the maintenance cost you mention is for a studio. I assume that if you had a double room (as with the one I rent) the maintenance charge would be double - i.e. 7,200 baht.

 

Torrenova, I don't know where you get your figure of 250 from but I estimate that there are about 860 units in View Talay 2A, albeit that a number of them have been converted in double rooms. On the basis that a double room is charged double the maintenance fee of a studio (seems reasonable to me ), the annual income is a bit over 3,000,000 baht.

 

Alan

[BigDUSA 71]

Thailand is Thailand, it remains Thailand because the laws that be don't allow forieners to own too much!

 

I would myself, never trust the system! a new law/ different law brought by the powers that govern "our" paradice! can turn on you within an instance!

 

You own this/you own that? Thailand has stayed Thailand for a long time now!

Interesting case somewhat on point. Bank's used to pay interest on foreigner bank accounts. One day they changed the law and no longer do they pay any interest. They can do the same thing with ownership of property.

 

The reason I'm for renting, many guys who are looking to buy are pensioners and they would be tyeing up a substantial portion of their retirement nest egg. For the younger guys if they lose their investment they have years of earning potential to recover from any loss.

[bangkapiboy 5]

BigD,

 

What base do you have for saying property taxes are coming, and particularly for foreigners owning condos? Never heard anything like this at all. Sure, maybe it could happen someday that everyone will need to pay real estate taxes, but especially foreigners needing to pay taxes on condos? No way.

 

Also, I have a bank account and get interest on my money here in Thailand for many years. You're saying foreigners can't earn interest? This is open to me as a Farrang simply having a bank account. If I want to open a CD or whatever, I can, and collect interest on that as well. I have no differences in my banking than Thais do.

 

It sounds like you are happy renting, and that is great. Renting is nice, as it gives one freedom not to be tied down anywhere.

Edited June 18, 2006 by bangkapiboy

[BigDUSA 71]

BigD,

 

What base do you have for saying property taxes are coming, and particularly for foreigners owning condos? Never heard anything like this at all. Sure, maybe it could happen someday that everyone will need to pay real estate taxes, but especially foreigners needing to pay taxes on condos? No way.

 

Also, I have a bank account and get interest on my money here in Thailand for many years. You're saying foreigners can't earn interest? This is open to me as a Farrang simply having a bank account. If I want to open a CD or whatever, I can, and collect interest on that as well. I have no differences in my banking than Thais do.

 

It sounds like you are happy renting, and that is great. Renting is nice, as it gives one freedom not to be tied down anywhere.

Government is like a whore on crack they always need money. Where to go for money? Foreigners have money and with all the new condos and the various services they will need from the city and I'm thinking mainly of sewer, trash and let's not forget water then the government will tap them for taxes. It's the price of civilization.

 

I have a savings account in Pattaya and I get no interest. They stooped paying interest on these accounts for foreigners.

 

When my wife and I move to LOS, I plan on renting. I might buy a house for the min noi.

[Gary 4,096]

The goverment is missing out on a BIG piece of tax income right now. Those who chose to lease a house are supposed to be paying 12 1/2 percent tax on monthly rent. This applies whether it was paid in advance or not. If the value of the rent is understated the govenment will set the monthly value. The same applies to guys who are renting out their condos. By law they are also required to pay the 12 1/2 percent tax. How many people do you know who are paying that tax?

 

I was curious about people bitching about condo prices so I have been doing a little research. It appears that condo values have about doubled in the past three years. I have to say that I was shocked. The only units that have not appreciated very much are the shoe box sizes of between 28 and 32 square meters.

 

At this point it appears cheaper to rent because rents have not gone up anywhere near as much as the value of the properties. If the government chooses to start collecting the taxes due, then you will see rent prices go up. When/if that happens people will scream again about the government changing the laws. The law already exists so they do NOT have to change anything. The laws have not been changed they simply have not been enforced.

[laffnliv 78]

I have a studio condo of about 42 sq. meters. Have had it for less than four years and it has doubled in value. Don't need a car or a bike. Have public transportation and can walk for groceries if I want.

When I sell it, which I have no plans to do at the present time, the result will be that I have lived here in Pattaya for FREE! AND hotel bills are rising all the time.

 

Having said that.....it is true you never know what the government will do. Some of you guys worry 'too mutt', I think. As I have said many times, " Don't put any more money into Thailand than you can afford to lose." And I realize that some of you can afford to lose a lot more money than I can. It's a matter of using your (big) head and choosing wisely. I think I did.

 

Little Roy

[laffnliv 78]

My above comments apply to condo ownership only. Owning a house is another deal altogether. You can't own it solely in your name. The government "says" it will be cracking down on corporate or company ownership that is a sham. Just how they will "crack down" is another thing, of course. They may just continue to ignore the sham ownerships...but who knows? And I damn sure am NOT going to buy a house and put it in someone else's name. GF, or wife.

 

If you have a house you will be out of town and will need wheels. Which means you WILL have to deal with the BIB. Which is something I wish to avoid. AND, I don't want to deal with leaky roofs, flooding, barking dogs, crowing roosters, or neighbors who have huge TV's with 'wrap around sound', or karaoke machines. None of these things will you have to face when you have a cond...in a good location.

 

Biased, ain't I?

[Eneukman 1]

Interesting case somewhat on point. Bank's used to pay interest on foreigner bank accounts. One day they changed the law and no longer do they pay any interest. They can do the same thing with ownership of property.

 

The reason I'm for renting, many guys who are looking to buy are pensioners and they would be tyeing up a substantial portion of their retirement nest egg. For the younger guys if they lose their investment they have years of earning potential to recover from any loss.

Sorry, BigD, but you're wrong about banks not paying interest. I've just had what I assume to be interest added to my account with Bangkok Bank. OK - it's not a lot but it'll cover a few long times.

 

Alan

[hillbilly 81]

STICKMANS done a peice the other week about guys with money in banks and what sort of interest is being paid. ie 10 million bhat= 40. 000 bhat a month

[BigDUSA 71]

Sorry, BigD, but you're wrong about banks not paying interest. I've just had what I assume to be interest added to my account with Bangkok Bank. OK - it's not a lot but it'll cover a few long times.

 

Alan

When I opened my savings account last year the lady who processed my account told me no interest for accounts held by a foreigner. Maybe they changed the banking regulations. If so, I'll sleep better tonight knowing my 1K is drawing interest.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

I agree with boardies who think LOS is not a basket to put all your eggs in.

[dotcom_OD 0]

I will add my piece of knowledge to this information. From what I know about asian cultures in whatever asian country you go to, home, land ownership will always be in favor to the local people. This protects the country from foreign investment and rich foreign companies trying to control land development and draw income from their investment.

 

Owning a home should still be considered for anyone who wants to have a wife, family, kids, white picket fence...you know what I mean. This is not a pipe dream as living in Thailand as well as any asian country is still relatively cheaper than living in Europe or the US well except for maybe Japan....as this is one of the most expensive pieces of real estate especially in Tokyo, if you consider outlying provinces, yes you can still live frugally if you live like an asian instead of a foreigners wants.

 

Condo's in Thailand, from what I can see on the internet websites and crooked foreign real estate agents, they are inflating the prices in hopes to gain a killing from a sale or two from a rich and stupid farang. If you really want to buy a condo, do the homework and pick one that is established and in a development that is first rate. Remember location, quality and buy as much as you can afford without breaking the bank.

Location, you will always get better returns closer to the city or where an planned community will be completed, such as schools, hospital, shopping mall or market.

Build quality is always important. Box condos will not be the first one's picked whether the buyer is Thai or foreigner.

Lastly, only spend as much as you can afford as any nest egg in a foreign country when you are gone will be difficult for your survivors to sell. They will always be at the mercy of a buyer.

 

Renting is still a good choice as apartments and hotel rooms can be had as little as 5,000 baht and as luxurious as 50,000 plus plus baht. Up to you as they say in LOS.

 

Now my opinion, I am still not certain about buying a condo. Last year yes, this year, somehow, I am leaning towards investing more in the Philippines than Thailand, unless the foreign investment laws are eased for ownershop of land and home. Returns in the Philippines in certain areas in the suburbs and business district are very good with clear profits in the coming years as prices seem to go up compared to Thailand's real prices for homes and condos.

 

This last statement is my speculation, as such you can think what you want with it.

Thailand and other asian countries are ripe for a devaluation of their currency similar to 1997-1998. Lots of debt unpaid to the banks, there is no denying this fact. Will this affect the housing market, I feel it will sooner or later. Now, the question is where will you be when the opportunity knocks.

Edited June 20, 2006 by dotcom_OD

[bane718 0]

Beware of the complexes that are NOT sold out!

What do you mean?

[Gary 4,096]

What do you mean?

I mean that the developers sell these units long before they are finished. They sell the 49 percent of the units to farangs but what will happen to the 51 percent that have to belong to the Thais? If there are not enough units sold there will not be enough monthly maintenance money coming in and the 49 percent that are sold may never even be livable. There are still some beautiful high rise developments that sit empty because the developers got in financial trouble and were never even able to hook up the electric and water. Companies like View Talay run a scam and just keep selling by not telling the buyers that they will need a bogus company to own their unit. Since it has finally come to our attention that these bogus companies are NOT legal who will buy and not be able to have the unit in their own name.

[Gary 4,096]

Now my opinion, I am still not certain about buying a condo. Last year yes, this year, somehow, I am leaning towards investing more in the Philippines than Thailand, unless the foreign investment laws are eased for ownershop of land and home. Returns in the Philippines in certain areas in the suburbs and business district are very good with clear profits in the coming years as prices seem to go up compared to Thailand's real prices for homes and condos.

 

This last statement is my speculation, as such you can think what you want with it.

Thailand and other asian countries are ripe for a devaluation of their currency similar to 1997-1998. Lots of debt unpaid to the banks, there is no denying this fact. Will this affect the housing market, I feel it will sooner or later. Now, the question is where will you be when the opportunity knocks.

Have you checked on the Philippines? Their property laws are as or even more restrictive than Thailand. You CANNOT own land in the Philippines either.