Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[Samsonite 181]

"Shoot The Dog (Part 4)

 

April 6th, 2010

 

At the end of the first quarter last year, Airbus had delivered precisely zero A380’s.

 

A year later, at the end of the first quarter of 2010 there have been just three A380’s delivered. Aside from the fact that the A380 continues to make headlines for all the wrong reasons, the real worry is the lack of existing customers stepping forward to take early deliveries.

 

No deliveries = no revenue.

 

The large airplane market has languished behind that of the long range, twin-aisle, twin engine segment - and with good reason.

 

As premium traffic continues to die, the shift towards the rear cabin has forced a string of airlines this year to re-evaluate their seating configurations, capacity and which routes will be served with a particular airplane type - all of which has meant a tectonic shift even further away from the big quad jets like the A380 and 747.

 

What makes things invariably worse for the A380 is the huge loss the program sits in, continued escalating production costs and a supply base unable to ramp up as quickly as had been first hoped - in the background, Airbus continues to run a feasibility study into the financial viability of the airplane.

 

The initial flurry of low-priced deals to snare customers in the last decade has completely undone the business case for this airplane. It can be argued that Boeing’s lack of decisive movement in the years prior to the A380’s launch has now left Airbus reeling from a decision that it has no choice to stick until deliveries are complete - that may take quite a while based on current output!

 

Airbus looked at Boeing’s successes with the 747 and thought it could garner the same monopoly and took the initiative to launch the A380 while its U.S. rival sat on the sidelines. The result of those events is clear - the A380’s costs have spiralled completely out of control, the entire market gravitated toward more point-to-point capable airplanes like the A330, A350, 777, and 787 and the failure to assign resources adequately has meant that the A380F has about as much chance of revival as the dodo.

 

Boeing’s own 747-8 program sits in a loss position, albeit the costs of which are paled in comparison to the A380.

 

Poor sales in the large market arena have shown that the concept ten years ago of a dual-deck jet simply is not required for the marketplace today - there may be limited scope at some slot-constrained airports where the need is pressing, but overall, poor sales over the last decade, the spate of deferrals seen last year and a financing market that it averse to lending money on the inconsistently priced A380 has meant that this giant airplane will be remembered for more of its failures than money making ability.

 

About the only saving grace for Airbus and the A380 is that Bombardier has demonstrated even worse fortunes with the CSeries."

 

http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2010/04/06/shoot-the-dog4/

 

 

"Bloomberg

Airbus Postpones First A380 Delivery to Korean Air (Update1)

April 08, 2010, 5:00 AM EDT

 

(Adds Airbus confirmation in second paragraph.)

 

By Seonjin Cha

 

April 8 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the world’s largest commercial-aircraft maker, said it will delay its first delivery of an A380 jet to Korean Air Lines Co. because production of the superjumbo is behind schedule.

 

Korean Air will get its first A380, the world’s largest passenger plane, in the second quarter of 2011 instead of in December as previously planned, the Seoul-based carrier said in an e-mail today. Airbus spokesman Sean Lee confirmed the delay in a separate e-mail.

 

Airbus parent European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co., which last month booked 240 million euros in charges on its A380, wants to deliver about 20 of the superjumbos this year, or twice as many as in 2009. As of March 9, it had shipped three to customers. Korean Air, the country’s biggest air carrier, has placed orders for 10 A380 jets to meet rising travel demand and cut fuel costs Some of the Korean Air orders were for deliver as late as 2014.

 

Korean Air shares rose 1 percent to 69,700 won at the close in Seoul trading compared with the key Kospi index’s 0.4 percent gain. The stock has advanced 27 percent this year."

 

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-0...r-update1-.html

Edited April 9, 2010 by Samsonite

[BigDUSA 71]

CHICAGO (Reuters) – Boeing Co (BA.N) on Thursday said it delivered 108 commercial planes in the first quarter of 2010, compared with 121 planes in the same period a year earlier.

 

The company said 86 of its deliveries were of its 737 Next Generation.

 

Shares of Boeing were down 47 cents, or 0.7 percent, at $71.67 on the New York Stock Exchange.

 

Boeing said last month it will accelerate planned increases in production of two of its popular wide-body planes to accommodate heightened demand from airlines that had curbed orders in the last two years because of the economic crisis.

 

The improved outlook by the world's No. 2 planemaker may represent the start of a rebound in demand for Boeing and Airbus (EAD.PA) planes as the global airline industry recovers from a downturn.

[wacmedia 277]

.Any real company dependent on real profits to stay in business would have had no choice but to shut the project down a long time ago.

 

Hi,

 

One would think you are talking about Boeing and the Nightmareliner.

[Samsonite 181]

One would think you are talking about Boeing and the Nightmareliner.

One would think you would have learned to do your homework by now.

The total 787s sold so far is 866. Multiply that times a price of, e.g., $200 Million and that comes $173.2 Billion, which more than covers the development cost and gives them a nice profit. Boeing will recover their cost within the first year after the first delivery if not sooner as they will have 30 ready to start deliveries by later this year and they will be putting out at least 7 a month shortly thereafter.

Airbust, OTOH, has only delivered 26 A380s in the 2 1/2 years since the first delivery and it is unlikely they will deliver 20 this year, if that. Airbust will be lucky to breakeven.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Samsonite

[BigDUSA 71]

One would think you would have learned to do your homework by now.

The total 787s sold so far is over 850... so, let's say for example, 863. Multiply that times a price of, e.g., $200 Million and that comes $172.6 Billion, which more than covers the development cost and gives them a nice profit. Boeing will recover their cost within the first year after the first delivery if not sooner as they will have 30 ready to start deliveries by later this year and they will be putting out at least 7 a month shortly thereafter.

Airbust, OTOH, was only delivered 26 A380s in the 2 1/2 years since the first delivery and it is unlikely they will deliver 20 this year, if that. Airbust will be lucky to break even.

 

I wonder if Airbus has reached the break even point? How much more EU taxpayer money are they going to pour down that rat hole?

[TheFiend 1,181]

I wonder if Airbus has reached the break even point? How much more EU taxpayer money are they going to pour down that rat hole?

 

As a European taxpayer I am quite happy that my taxes are going towards keeping Airbus employees in a job!!!

[eltib 54]

I wonder if Airbus has reached the break even point? How much more EU taxpayer money are they going to pour down that rat hole?

 

I wonder how many more US taxpayer dollars are paid on pensions like yours?

[BigDUSA 71]

I wonder how many more US taxpayer dollars are paid on pensions like yours?

 

Many billions of dollars. Thank God your tax dollars are going to support me in a manner, I've become accustomed to since I was 44 y/o. Thank you and keep working all the overtime you can. I appreciate your support.

[Samsonite 181]

I wonder if Airbus has reached the break even point? How much more EU taxpayer money are they going to pour down that rat hole?

Break even? On the Airbust 380? Not likely. The rumors are they will have to sell well over 400 to break even and it has taken them 10 years to sell just a few over 200. There is a chance, remote, that the program will be terminated before they even get close to producing and delivering what they have sold so far.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

The A380 is in commercial operation. When will the Nightmareliner do the same ?

Edited April 12, 2010 by wacmedia

[Hub 203]

Hi,

 

One would think you are talking about Boeing and the Nightmareliner.

 

Boeing made a nice profit last year and paid dividends, the stock is up to 72+. EADs lost money.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Boeing made a nice profit last year and paid dividends, the stock is up to 72+. EADs lost money.

 

I hope you were on leftie at the weekend ...

[Samsonite 181]

The A380 is in commercial operation.

Well, you could say that, but here, 5 years after the first flight and 2 1/2 years after the first delivery, it has a very poor reliability rate.

 

The first 787 will be delivered in November or December, this year, to ANA.

[BigDUSA 71]

Boeing Completes First 787 Dreamliner Maintenance Training Class

Sun, 11 Apr '10

 

Mechanics From Launch Customer Airline Learns How To Maintain Its New Airplanes

It may seem like it's a little ahead of the game, but Boeing announced Tuesday that it has completed the first maintenance training class for the 787 Dreamliner. The class consisted of 10 mechanics from 787 launch customer ANA (All Nippon Airways) and two regulators from the Japan Civil Aviation Bureau (JCAB).

 

The mechanics, who completed the training last week, are the first of 150 ANA mechanics to be trained by Boeing over the next seven months. They spent more than 30 days learning how to maintain the world's most advanced commercial jetliner, including 20 days of theoretical training, two days of engine runs and taxi testing, five days of practical training and five days of troubleshooting exercises. To conclude the training, students conducted component identification exams on production airplanes, as well as troubleshooting exams in the full flight simulator.

 

To support the all-new 787, Boeing Training & Flight Services, a division of Commercial Aviation Services, Boeing Commercial Airplanes, has developed an all-digital, Internet-based teaching system for maintenance training, along with training tools that connect real-time to a virtual airplane and airplane systems.

 

"Getting our mechanics trained and prepared is essential to being ready to take delivery of the airplane later this year," said Michihide Kono, vice president of Engineering and Maintenance for ANA. "This is an important milestone for our ANA team and we are delighted to see the continued progress on the program."

 

The curriculum is designed to focus on performance-based training that incorporates real-world simulated maintenance scenarios for a more immersive training experience.

 

"The use of personal tablet computers, interactive computer-based training, three-dimensional images and desktop simulation makes it possible to deliver training more efficiently," said Sherry Carbary, vice president of Boeing Training & Flight Services, Commercial Aviation Services, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "Our team is committed to providing our customers with the resources and tools they need to be successful."

 

The 787 comes with digital tools and databases that replace volumes of printed materials. The graphic and textual database has point-and-click features for more details, allowing mechanics to navigate through documents quickly to get the information they need to do their jobs.

 

"This milestone is another important step along the way to being service-ready," said Mike Fleming, director of 787 Services and Support, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "Our goal is to make entry into service a seamless experience for our customers."

 

FMI: www.boeing.com

QUOTE

[wacmedia 277]

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner is expected to make its first flight in August of 2007 with delivery starting in 2008. As of now, Boeing has orders for 458 planes from 37 customers.

 

 

Boeing Completes First 787 Dreamliner Maintenance Training Class

Sun, 11 Apr '10

 

Hi,

 

Nuff said.

[MrMango 668]

Hi,

 

Nuff said.

Some on. They were over 2 years late with the first flight - Airbus was also late. Airbus almost 2 years later has delivered a few planes, has orders for a few more, and at the present delivery rate, they will complete their backlog in about 100 years.

 

Boeing has orders north of 800 planes.

 

Nuff said.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Boeing has orders north of 800 planes.

 

Nuff said.

 

But no planes to deliver.

 

Nuff said. :unsure:

[Samsonite 181]

But no planes to deliver...

To date 21 Boeing 787s have been built or are in final assembly. At the present rate they will have over 34 completed by time of the first delivery. During the first year following the first delivery to ANA they will deliver upwards of 60 aircraft.

Now, let's see, airbust in the 2 1/2 years since the first a380 was handed over to Singapore Air has delivered how many?? Hmmm? Twenty-six (26).

Edited April 14, 2010 by Samsonite

[CheshireTom 1,377]

To date 21 have been built or are in final assembly. At the present rate they will have over 34 completed by time of the first delivery. During the first year following the first delivery to ANA they will deliver upwards of 60 aircraft.

 

You and your predictions.

[MrMango 668]

You and your predictions.

Sure they are predictions, but they are a LOT better than Airbus facts -

 

30 months delivering 26 planes - that's not even ONE PER MONTH!

 

Pathetic!

 

As Harry Reid said " This war is lost!"

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Sure they are predictions, but they are a LOT better than Airbus facts -

 

30 months delivering 26 planes - that's not even ONE PER MONTH!

 

Pathetic!

 

As Harry Reid said " This war is lost!"

 

The same number as it's direct competitor, the 747.

[Samsonite 181]

The same number as it's direct competitor, the 747.

Well, Pom, let's see. Over the life of the 747 program over 1,400 aircraft have been built and delivered, but, again, it was a different time and it was the only one of its kind. The latest 747,

the 747-8, is in production and is currently undergoing flight testing. They have 108 airframes on back order and how much would you like to wager Boeing will deliver all those 747-8s before airbust can deliver finish delivering their current backlog of a380s, some of which have been on back order for going on 10 years.

[MrMango 668]

The same number as it's direct competitor, the 747.

A good job of trying to bend the posts, but not that good.

 

You must have been asleap when you forgot the posts before mine.

 

wacmedia compared the 380 and the 787, not me - I simply destroyed his argument.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

A good job of trying to bend the posts, but not that good.

 

You must have been asleap when you forgot the posts before mine.

 

wacmedia compared the 380 and the 787, not me - I simply destroyed his argument.

 

You couldn't destroy a balloon.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Well, Pom, let's see. Over the life of the 747 program over 1,400 aircraft have been built and delivered, but, again, it was a different time and it was the only one of its kind. The latest 747,

the 747-8, is in production and is currently undergoing flight testing. They have 108 airframes on back order and how much would you like to wager Boeing will deliver all those 747-8s before airbust can deliver finish delivering their current backlog of a380s, some of which have been on back order for going on 10 years.

 

Predictions, predictions. You know your track record ain't very good.