Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[eltib 54]

Hi,

 

Considering how things have gone so far that's a big IF.

 

Whats even funnier is Boeing thinks 20% fuels savings equates to a 20% savings in operating costs.

[Samsonite 181]

Whats even funnier is Boeing thinks 20% fuels savings equates to a 20% savings in operating costs....

Not so. They separate the two. They are projecting xx in fuel savings and xx in maintenance (due to the composite structure vs aluminum, etc.) to come up with total operating cost savings.

[BigDUSA 71]

Boeing Co. surprised investors with a bigger-than-expected fourth-quarter profit on Wednesday, and said testing of its two newest planes is on track.

 

Boeing also said it won't scale back aircraft production, which some had feared. Its guidance for 2010 profits was less than analysts had expected, but investors didn't seem to mind. Boeing shares rose $3.21, or 5.6 percent, to $60.92 in afternoon trading.

 

Boeing's backlog of airplane orders is carrying it through a steep downturn in airline traffic, which has made carriers much more conservative about ordering new planes. Airlines order jets years before delivery, so Boeing can keep building new planes to fill old orders, even if new orders slow. Boeing expects to build more planes than it takes new orders for in 2010 — as it did in 2009 — said Jim McNerney, Boeing's chairman, president, and CEO, on a conference call with analysts.

 

Thanks to those previous orders, all the planes they'll build this year are sold out. And "customer discussions are not slowing down, they're at a good level, if not, a little stronger" than last year, he said.

 

Airlines have struggled during the recession, and aircraft orders have fallen. The International Air Transport Association said Wednesday that airlines saw passenger demand drop 3.5 percent, the worst falloff the industry has recorded.

 

Boeing and European rival Airbus dominate the market for large commercial jets. Last year Airbus delivered 498 planes, versus 481 for Boeing.

 

Boeing's new 787 flew for the first time last month, and flight testing is under way on the first two planes. It's on track to meet its weight goals, McNerney said. Some people have wondered if that would happen. The plane's weight is a factor in its fuel efficiency, which is one of the 787's main selling points.

 

"We don't anticipate any major modifications to the airplane," McNerney said.

 

Referring to the 787 flight tests, he said, "So far, so good."

 

"We're moving along as expected. We have not discovered anything significant in the design or the fabrication of the airplane," he said. "There's still risk in the flight test program, as you know. Something could be discovered. We don't anticipate it."

 

Boeing said it plans to fly its new 747-8 "in the near future." The new version of its 41-year-old plane is longer and can fly farther than its predecessors. It plans to deliver a handful of both the new 747 and the 787 by the end of this year.

 

Boeing made a profit of $1.27 billion in the fourth quarter, reversing an $86 million loss from a year ago. The per-share profit of $1.75 was ahead of analyst expectations as measured by Thomson Reuters. Revenue rose 42 percent to $17.94 billion. Results in last year's fourth quarter had been held down by a strike and a charge for delays on the 747-8.

 

The Boeing Commercial Airplanes division saw operating profits rise to $1.02 billion, reversing a year-ago loss of $968 million. Operating profits in Boeing's defense unit fell 6 percent to $829 million.

 

Boeing, which is based in Chicago, gave a cautious outlook for 2010 after dealing with program delays and declining orders in 2009. It expects to earn $3.70 to $4 per share this year. Wall Street analysts forecast $4.26.

 

Boeing predicted 2010 revenue of $64 billion to $66 billion, which is about what analysts expected.

 

Boeing said the guidance accounts for lower production of its 777 aircraft, some smaller defense programs, and "market risks."

 

It had planned to lay off about 10,000 people last year, but ended up dismissing 9,300, McNerney said.

 

"Our plan reflects ongoing headcount reductions in light of continued market pressures and related productivity requirements," he said.

AP

[eltib 54]

Boeing Co. surprised investors with a bigger-than-expected fourth-quarter profit on Wednesday, and said testing of its two newest planes is on track.

 

It had planned to lay off about 10,000 people last year, but ended up dismissing 9,300, McNerney said.

 

"Our plan reflects ongoing headcount reductions in light of continued market pressures and related productivity requirements," he said.

AP

 

That's the reason their profits are up. Forget all the filler material you've posted.

[wacmedia 277]

That's the reason their profits are up. Forget all the filler material you've posted.

 

Hi,

 

If you read many companies statements the only way their profits are up is by reducing staff numbers. Where will the profits come from next year when they have no one left to "lay off"?

[TheFiend 1,181]

Hi,

 

If you read many companies statements the only way their profits are up is by reducing staff numbers. Where will the profits come from next year when they have no one left to "lay off"?

 

The company I am working for is being run by a consortium lead by an American company. They have been given a long term contract with a set budget to work to, and any profit for them has to come from savings they cab make within that budget

 

The idea they are pushing at the moment is to achieve 6 years work for the cost of 5. The only way they can achieve this is by reducing their biggest cost - labour.

 

For a start they could do thing like kick out contractor companies who charge them ridiculous figures for simple jobs..... like replacing 10 showers at a cost of £20K for the job, or £500 to replace a door lock, and get the work done by their own workforce!

[wacmedia 277]

For a start they could do thing like kick out contractor companies who charge them ridiculous figures for simple jobs..... like replacing 10 showers at a cost of £20K for the job, or £500 to replace a door lock, and get the work done by their own workforce!

 

 

Hi,

 

LOS aint the only place for graft. Sure someone is getting a nice earner.

[eltib 54]

The company I am working for is being run by a consortium lead by an American company. They have been given a long term contract with a set budget to work to, and any profit for them has to come from savings they cab make within that budget

 

The idea they are pushing at the moment is to achieve 6 years work for the cost of 5. The only way they can achieve this is by reducing their biggest cost - labour.

 

For a start they could do thing like kick out contractor companies who charge them ridiculous figures for simple jobs..... like replacing 10 showers at a cost of £20K for the job, or £500 to replace a door lock, and get the work done by their own workforce!

 

Too bad CEO's like McNerney don't think like you. I can't wait for my annual Boeing Proxy to show up this year. Maybe the stockholders will vote to kick him off the board. I'm making sure I keep my shares, so this way when Boeing becomes really profitable again, I'll see a 1 for 1 stock split. That hasn't happened since 1997. Before Boeing was bought by McD with Boeing's money, Boeing had a stock split on the average of every 5 years.

 

Here is a list of people I know that recently got laid off. Most of these people I worked with when I was there. Their jobs are going to India.

 

----- Forwarded Message ----

From: "Wendt, Sylvia S"

To: pamela mottes

Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 8:02:40 AM

Subject: Did I tell you?

 

I have absolutely lost my mind. Did I tell you I got laid off? 9 of us got our notice. Our last day will be January 22. I was told the day before I left for Colorado then I got back 10:00 Tuesday night and had to be to work at 6:00 Wednesday morning. We are in the middle of year end closing and are way behind. I have been going out with the girls at night and working all day and I am really really tired. Because Mindy does not have a job yet she came home with us and will be leaving Saturday. The girls and I plan on stopping by Lil Treasurers Friday night. I want to say good bye to the ladies.

The people you might know that got laid off are,

Mitch Gentry

Yollie Poraz

Eileen Irons

Terri Mc Lain

Sylvia Wendt

Yolanda chavez

 

The ones you proabaly don't know,

Lloyd Nikamora

Debbie Hickman

Angela Hamilton

Edited January 29, 2010 by eltib

[TheFiend 1,181]

As the article points out there were 263 new orders and 121 cancellations. The total for 2009 does not include United's order for 25 Boeing 787s, but does reflect an order for 11 more 787s placed in December.

 

I see Boeing have been a bit quiet about the 747-8 order book being reduced by 2 in January after Guggenheim Aviation Partners reduced their order from 4 to 2.....

 

And Boeing are already trailing Airbus in orders for this year

[BigDUSA 71]

CHICAGO (Reuters) – Boeing Co (BA.N) flew its twice-delayed 747-8 Freighter for the first time on Monday, a significant milestone in the history of the legendary 747 family and a step that could bolster the credibility of the world's second-largest plane maker.

 

The new plane -- the biggest commercial jet Boeing has ever built -- completed a 3-1/2 hour flight around the Puget Sound area from an airfield north of Seattle, Washington, without any hitches.

 

Boeing twice delayed the first flight of the 747-8 last year, most recently moving a planned fourth-quarter flight to early 2010 and first delivery to the fourth quarter of 2010.

 

The 747-8 Freighter, about 18 feet longer than the 747-400, had been launched in November 2005 and was originally scheduled to start delivering in the fourth-quarter of 2009.

 

The company took a $1 billion charge related to the 747-8 in the third quarter of 2009 because of high production costs and tough market conditions.

 

Boeing, which has 108 orders for 747-8s -- 76 for its freighter model and 32 for the passenger model -- on its books at list prices between $293 million and $308 million, gets paid by customers at delivery.

 

The 747 family has been in the air since 1969 and is Boeing's biggest and most recognizable commercial plane.

 

The 747-8 uses new engine and wing designs, boasts greater fuel efficiency and lower operating costs than the Airbus (EAD.PA) A380, its closest rival, Boeing says. The Freighter model can carry 16 percent more cargo than the previous 747 model, while the Intercontinental passenger model can carry 51 more passengers.

 

The freighter's test flight comes on the heels of a successful test flight of the 787 Dreamliner in December.

 

Though not nearly as innovative or fuel-efficient as the revolutionary carbon-composite 787 Dreamliner, the 747-8 shares technology with the higher-profile plane.

 

Boeing's reputation has been bruised by two years of Dreamliner delays. That plane finally flew for the first time in December.

 

 

108 orders so far.

[wacmedia 277]

The 747 family has been in the air since 1969

 

Hi,

 

So it's 40 years old.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Hi,

 

So it's 40 years old.

 

And the 747-8 program is highly unlikely to recoup the program costs due to it's limited appeal to the market.....

[MrMango 669]

And the 747-8 program is highly unlikely to recoup the program costs due to it's limited appeal to the market.....

Unlike Airbus, Boeing has a very good accounting staff, as they cannot build white elephants as they do not have the state in back to them.

 

You guess, if the break even orders wre not there or expected to be there they would drop it.

[Samsonite 181]

So it's 40 years old.

No, not really.

Every new generation has all the latest engineering, electronics, and materials available at the time and Boeing updates and improves their aircraft, where possible, over the life of the model.

The Boeing 737 is even older, but when they launched the "Next Generation' 737 in the late '90s, it was all new from the inside out.

Ditto the Boeing 777. The first 777 flew went into commercial service in 1995. In 2004 the 777-300ER went into service with 35% of the plane built with all new engineering including a new wing, landing gear and engines.

The 777-200LR went into service in 2006 with the same new engineering as -300ER and is the longest range commercial airliner in service. In 2009 the Boeing 777F, based in the -200LR, and carries more cargo farther than any other aircraft in its class.

In the short life of the Boeing 777-300ER, its range has been extended several hundred nautical miles due to refinements to the design and use of new materials.

A couple of years ago the weight of the 737 was reduced by several hundred pounds, 700 IIRC, by switching to carbon brakes from steel.

Within the first year of deliveries of the 747-100 enough improvements had been made that Boeing started selling and building the 747-200, and so on.

It is an ongoing process.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Samsonite

[eltib 54]

Boeing has a very good accounting staff, as they cannot build white elephants as they do not have the state in back to them.

 

That will change soon. They are outsourcing all those jobs to India.

Edited February 9, 2010 by eltib

[MrMango 669]

That will change soon. They are outsourcing all those jobs to India.

Nothing wrong with Indian workers or accounting

[jacko 8,814]

Hi,

 

So it's 40 years old.

Now now Wac, the latest 747 is hardly like the earlier ones...... like the latest mini isn't like the awful original.

Limiting the naming to 7x7 is somewhat restrictive for Boeing...... perhaps they will delve into alpha-numerics after the 797?

 

I was intriqued by the claim that this latest 747 was more efficient than the A380, and the 787 is a 'new generation'...

Boeing, the second best, seem to be heading in a sensible direction.

Edited February 10, 2010 by jacko

[eltib 54]

Nothing wrong with Indian workers or accounting

 

I take it you have plenty of them employed.

[BigDUSA 71]

CHICAGO (AP) - Boeing Co. says one of its new 787s made an unplanned landing because an engine lost thrust unexpectedly.

 

Pilots landed at the airport in Moses Lake in central Washington on Friday. It had taken off from Boeing Field near Seattle.

 

Boeing says the plane had an "uncommanded loss of thrust" in one of its two engines. Boeing spokesman Jim Proulx says the 787 can fly on one engine, but it's normal procedure to land when there's an engine problem.

 

Boeing flew new parts out to Moses Lake over the weekend, and the plane returned to Seattle on Sunday.

 

The 787 is going through flight testing. The plane with the engine problem is the first test plane. Boeing's first three 787s are not being sold to airline customers.

[TheFiend 1,181]

CHICAGO (AP) - Boeing Co. says one of its new 787s made an unplanned landing because an engine lost thrust unexpectedly.

 

Oh dear.... so it is still living up to the Nightmareliner name.

[BigDUSA 71]

Oh dear.... so it is still living up to the Nightmareliner name.

 

I wonder if the engines are sourced from Rolls Royce? Moving along to the Airbus 380 are the electric's sourced from Lucas AKA the Prince of Darkness.? If I remember correctly Lucas has a long standing rep for building quality along with reliable products.

[Greg_B 306]

Once again when your arguments lose traction you start with the personal attacks. Lame.

 

I take it you don't know much about the transportation business. Airlines work together every day especially in the repair area. They loan or trade parts frequently. On the operational side they will on occasion do a 'favor' for another carrier because they know in the future they may need one.

 

Come to think of it "truck driver" you no NOTHING about the Airline business ( I worked 20 yrs for a major airline)

 

So, STFU as usual, no one loans parts, they sell them

 

Favors don't work between airlines, it's competition

 

You know nothing about it do you...?

[BigDUSA 71]

Come to think of it "truck driver" you no NOTHING about the Airline business ( I worked 20 yrs for a major airline)

 

So, STFU as usual, no one loans parts, they sell them

 

Favors don't work between airlines, it's competition

 

You know nothing about it do you...?

 

When you worked for the airlines did you work in the airplane maintenance division?

[Samsonite 181]

Oh dear.... so it is still living up to the Nightmareliner name....

Well, like I've said before, that is why they are called "test flights."

BTW, it was Rolls Royce engine. Hmmm. Rolls...that is a British firm isn't it.

It was a sensor that cause an "uncommanded" reduction in power. They checked the RR engines on the other two test planes before letting them go up again.

As of 3 March there have been 74 test flights racking up 255 hours and 55 minutes. There were 3 more flights on 4 March, but I don't know the total number of hours. Three more planes will be joining the test fleet over the next several weeks.

The first four test 787s have RR engines. The fifth and sixth planes will have GE engines.

Here are two photos from the first flight and one from the roll out. The wings on that bird are amazing.

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2010 by Samsonite

[Greg_B 306]

When you worked for the airlines did you work in the airplane maintenance division?

 

IAM member does that tell you anything, wanker...?

 

They don't trade parts, WTF are you talking about...?

 

This isn't a part for a truck engine, many lives are at stake if it fails and you think they "trade" parts...?

If it failed, who is responsible...?

 

We traded for an engine fron Delta and put it on UA, it failed causing an emergency landing.

People were hurt and the reason was the engine failed.

 

Now with that said, who was responsible for that failed engine (UA or Delta)...?

Airlines stock many parts and AOG them to sites, for repairs.

 

Next time ask an airline employee, you might not have to makeup a story to look like an idiot