Reality Check

[Shilo 371]

My first trip to Pattaya was about 3 1/2 years ago and like most on the board it was love (or lust) at first sight. After a couple of trips I started to give some serious thought to making the big move. I was old enough to qualify for the retirement visa but young enough to still have some fun. I put together a 5 year plan. But because of some hard work I was able to trim some months off of the plan so that now it looks like the spring of next year is a valid target.

 

So with about 14 months to go it's time to start putting things into motion...... and then in creeps the doubts

 

 

After about 15-20 trips to Pattaya (3-4 a year) I feel like I have lost my newbie glow and so has Pattaya. I think that I pretty much understand the scene. And I'd be happy to call it my new home. But just off the top of my head I can remember the following issues coming up.

 

The Thai gov't calls for a War on Drugs and there seemed to be more killings then arrests.

 

The gov't decides to start a 20 baht medical care program that hurt the country's health care.

 

The problems in the South get worst and the country deals with it in part by dropping little paper bird foldings.

 

Anyone still remember SARS?

 

Can we now say that Bird Flu is a thing of the past?

 

Did you read today that there was a Tsunami Warning. None of us can or should forget the last Tsunami.

 

How about when we were talking about a water shortage and they were trucking the water in.

 

 

And now most recently,

 

The changes to the visa run rules of 3 entry stamps a year.

 

Changes to currency controls.

 

Changes to company owership and voting rules.

 

The recent bombings.

 

 

Oh and did I forget to mention the Coup or the fact that the country currently is running without a constitution

 

 

The point:

 

We discuss the wisdom of buying vs rently a home in Pattaya. What if we take a moment to discuss the wisdom of making the move vs staying at home and visiting. Maybe it's cold feet on my part, but after EVERYTHING that we have seen happen in Thailand over the past few years I'm beginning to wonder if it's time for a reality check.

 

 

.

[ozijeff 9]

terrorism, petrol prices, lack of gun control, interest rates, drugs, street violence, value of the dollar, corrupt government.

basically every country throws up crap to deal with. you just have to work out what works best for you. my only real advice is ALWAYS have a plan B.

goodluck.

[Khun.Dip 2]

If after all those trips Pattaya still grabs you, those issues you cited seem relatively minor or temporary. Politically, the country is a mess, but I'm American so who am I to preach? I've just returned from three weeks in LOS, one in Pattaya, and despite the underlying disdain many THais have for foreigners (which Taksin used to skillfully exploit), there's no indication I'm aware of that anyone is interested in changing the P4P culture, even in its extreme form in Pattaya. One issue you didn't mention is the appreciating baht. If the dollar ever gets back to baht 41, I won't wait to buy something. The last projections I saw were the dollar could fall to 32 baht by May.

[Owen` 2]

Okay, here's my read on this.

 

I don't get it. At all. What exactly is the problem? I think what you're describing is a mindset issue, not a matter of "reality".

 

What does "moving to Pattaya" mean that is so worrisome? I don't think guys have this configured in their brains. Why do you think this has to be permanent? What does permanent mean? How long have you lived in your current residence? Five years? Is that permanent?

 

You will have a maildrop of some kind back in your home country for various things that you want to show a local address. You will have no residence back home (to suck money from you), and so what? If you want to go home, just go. Rent a hotel room for a month while you find a place. So what's the big deal?

 

If you "move to Pattaya", you'll do the same -- rent a hotel room there for a month or two. Find a place to park more long term -- to either rent or buy (if you feel you must).

 

I think what's going on here is you're envisioning shipping all your lifetime's possessions to Pattaya and it's intimidating. So . . . don't ship them. Put them in storage back home. It will probably cost you $100/mo. Then you can ship stuff incrementally (yes, you will go back to the States maybe once a year) in your checked bags or you can give it away. That sofa of yours in the living room . . . it really has no value. Put it on Craigslist and get some money for it. Or give it away. Seriously, think about it . . . what value does 15 year old furniture have? Or a 15 year old TV?

 

You're making too big a deal of this. There are people in the world, not all that rich, who have 3 different residences scattered in 3 different countries. When they go from one to another are they "moving?"

 

You will be in Pattaya, maybe renting, maybe buying. You will be there 3 months and you'll decide it's time for a "vacation". You will take a hop to Manila. You will take a hop to KL. Or Singapore. Three or four days there and back. Then another few months and time for a visit back to the US to see family. Then back to Pattaya. Then a trip up country. Then back. You're not really living any of those places. You live in the world. There are millions of beds you could sleep in on any given night.

 

Next time you make the trip stay at Residence Gardens. It's all suites. Every "room" has a living room fully furnished and a kitchen with cooking utensils and a full size fridge. You'll feel right at home within a day or two. See? You don't need that couch. They provide one. Any furnished place does.

[Shilo 371]

Owen,

 

As always, I find myself agreeing with most of what your saying. And don't get me wrong with this thread. If there was a debate and the choice was to "move" or "not move" from the West to Pattaya.... I'd be confortable taking either side of the discussion.

 

My decision was made long ago to make the move. And the benefits have been huge. Over the last several years I have worked and saved my ass off so that now I am approaching the point where working will be a choice rather then a need. I have no doubts that I will be out of work, and living off my savings on a retirement visa in Pattaya come next year.

 

But the point of the thread is to point out that there has been a shitload of news out of Thailand over the past several years. And much of it somewhat negative. I'm just wondering if maybe part of our discussion around making commitments (on whatever level) should factor in the patterns of some of these events.

 

Someone set me straight, is there just more news coming out of Thailand compared to most other countries in the area, or am I just paying more attention to Thailand news and cause myself to get a jaded impression?

 

.

[sabang 0]

I like living in Los, and most of the bad news seems from another planet.

On the night of the coup I was getting aled in Pattaya, read about it in the newspaper next morning.

The only things that really bother me here is the driving, and street crime.

I hope the visa situation does not stuff up too many people's plans though.

[Dr Mick 111]

Same Same ,I want to think in 2008 I will move to LOS.i will be 55

 

My other option is to stay in uk and work till I am 60 and get big payout then

My house paid for in 2008 .no money worries now ,have a job which pays well

no politcal issues ,im in safe enviroment ,BUT IM SO BORED

 

So i think i will change my safe bored life for unsafer excitment .

 

Do we live to work or work to live thats the Question

 

I want to live again ,so i think i will follow my senses and look

for my excitment in my life before it is to late.

 

Its a gamble as life is all the time .but with edging a few bets ,it can reduce the odds im sure .

 

For me I will have money ok till I get some works pension at 60

 

I may even take temp contract work if I think I need few more bahts till im 60.

looked at job market looks like

many vacancies around Asia for my skills in the oil gas industries

I am a planning ,project engineer

 

I think I will not buy but rent in LOS but buy in Prague ,as I know this city very well and know

if I had to come back to Europe due to issues in LOS ,I would be so happy living

there compare to UK ,as lot cheaper to live there than UK and more fun for single

man can be found .

 

Well I have 3 more visits to LOS this year which I will know what I will do in 2008

or I know at moment is im pissed off with my life in UK and Its up to me what can

I do to change this

 

I think we should always have a plan B

 

At the end of the day I have worked 40 years caring for my family when we was one unit

Now single for last 3 years .my son 29 is ok with his life my daughter 21 married and

happy now .Now I have been a good family man ,its now time I should be

selfish and find fun and excitment in my life whilst I can

Edited January 13, 2007 by manracer402003

[wacmedia 277]

At the end of the day I have worked 40 years caring for my family when we was one unit

Now single for last 3 years .my son 29 is ok with his life my daughter 21 married and

happy now .Now I have been a good family man ,its now time I should be

selfish and find fun and excitment in my life whilst I can

 

Hi,

 

Go sooner rather than later. Your plan of buying a place in Prague is a good one. I feel you always need a place in Europe in case things go wrong in LOS which can happen despite all our best plans.

[captcraig2 120]

Here...Here...I second that motion!.... what the hell are you thinking? you have the means to experience life and you're worried about being blown up? Dude stop being an old lady and get your ass in motion! have some fun and enjoy what time you have left on this planet. You can die in a car crash while heading to work....but you still went didn't you? Now pull that tail out between your legs and get on with the things you find pleaure in doing! tomorrow you might find yourself bored with Pattaya..if so pack up your shit and go home, if the bombs start going off and the water starts rising put your toys back in the box and go home. If this advice seems way out there, then do me a huge fucking favor and deposit all that money you saved into my acount so somebody can enjoy it!

 

 

Get that donkey buckin bro!......Have a wonderful retirement and make those last few days count.

 

 

Oh bye the way....This all with due respect!

 

 

I really need another

[bart 0]

Someone set me straight, is there just more news coming out of Thailand compared to most other countries in the area, or am I just paying more attention to Thailand news and cause myself to get a jaded impression?

In Britain Thailand does not figure in the news much at all.

 

Week-to-week I'd like to hear more news about Thailand because I'm interested.

 

But as far as being a monger goes, it's probably a good thing not much is too newsworthy.

 

Don't worry

[nidnoyham 30]

 

 

My other option is to stay in uk and work till I am 60 and get big payout then

My house paid for in 2008 .no money worries now ,have a job which pays well

no politcal issues ,im in safe enviroment ,BUT IM SO BORED

 

 

Mate, if your bored living the U.K don't go to live in rural Thailand.

 

I would reside in the UK and go whitewater rafting, Skydiving, Croccodile wrestling in my spare time. Pussey power may be influencing your judgement.

 

If so, get a close up picture of one, blow it up to A3. Put one in every room of your house with the following quote " I am moving half way around the world for this " It may help.

[bart 0]

Have a wonderful retirement and make those last few days count.

shilo, manracer, I have to agree with most of what captcraig says

 

Unfortunately the trouble is, if you're in your fifties, those last days are not necessarily FEW. There could be another thirty bloody years or more of the fuckers coming at you

 

Shit, I'm starting to sound like Owen

 

Look on the bright side. Maybe that tsunami will get you early

Edited January 13, 2007 by bart

[LocalYokul 214]

The Thai gov't calls for a War on Drugs and there seemed to be more killings then arrests.

 

they were shooting Thai people, so what are you worried about ?

 

The gov't decides to start a 20 baht medical care program that hurt the country's health care.

 

I think it was actually 30 Baht, but again what does this have to do with a retiree, you won't be getting medical care programs anyway, just have good international insurance

 

The problems in the South get worst and the country deals with it in part by dropping little paper bird foldings.

 

far from Pattaya

 

Anyone still remember SARS?

 

vaguely, and the worst it did was cancel a Rolling Stones concert

 

Can we now say that Bird Flu is a thing of the past?

 

seems so, as I've not heard of a case in quite some time now

 

Did you read today that there was a Tsunami Warning. None of us can or should forget the last Tsunami.

 

Pattaya is in the Gulf and was not directly affected by the last tsunami, nor will it be by future tsunamis

 

How about when we were talking about a water shortage and they were trucking the water in.

 

that's what water storage tanks are for

 

The changes to the visa run rules of 3 entry stamps a year.

 

just do a proper visa run, to a consulate, in Vienjun Laos, Singapore, or Penang Malaysia, no worries

 

Changes to currency controls.

 

keep your money offshore, except for the amount you'll need to qualify for your retirement visa. BTW, this makes your point about border runs moot if you are going to get a retirement (one-year) visa

 

 

Changes to company owership and voting rules.

 

are you planning to start a company ?, you won't need to if you qualify for a retirement visa

 

The recent bombings.

 

in Pattaya ?

 

Oh and did I forget to mention the Coup or the fact that the country currently is running without a constitution

 

was here during the coup, and it was pretty much business as usual, save a few soldiers on the street corners vs. policemen

if you don't move here based on the points above then you are just second guessing yourself and you could always pull out after a year if you don't fuckin' like it

[cottesloe 0]

Hi S,

 

All the changes that you mentioned sure are worrying but I bet you I can make an even more worrying case about either the USA or the UK.

 

No constitution. Did the lawlesness in Thailand ever affect you before and is it likely to now?

 

Is crossing 2nd road not more worrying.

 

The coup - undoubtedly worrying, but what effect does it have.

 

The new visa, currency laws. Do they really have any affect for a retiree.

 

Has it not always been the case that Thailand was likely to be volatile? 5, 10, 20 years ago.

 

Personally, I'm not too worried about any of the changes but then again I would never retire there anyway.

 

I like some of the suggestions on this thread. Hey flights are cheap these days, rented accom is cheap. Excitement abounds in many areas and or countries - so why Thailand? Why not become a traveller - a base in the USA, maybe some low skilled, no stress work to keep things ticking over and give yourself capuccino money hey part time, highly skilled and highly paid is better but harder to come by.

 

Hey, even if you've got the money then stick to the original five year plan and then party on down.

 

OK, who am I to give you advice but look at the other posters - all good stuff and I don't think there is anything to really worry about in Thailand but maybe just change or evolve your original plan a little in light of the advice and the current situation.

 

Best of luck!! Go for it!

 

Cheers,

 

C.

[Gary 4,118]

I had to make a duty (family) visit back to the US in September. My flight out was scheduled the morning after the coup. I called the airport before I left in the morning and asked if everything was OK. The girl told me that everything was normal and not to worry about it. On the LONG flight to the US I thought I would look around to see how it would be to live there again. That visit was a very long 15 days and I was VERY happy to get back to the Kingdom. Home is home and Thailand is now my home. Political correctness, rules, laws and all the rest of the bullshit made Thailand look pretty good. Probably the biggest attraction at one time was the Thai ladies. Since I have a good woman now, that no longer seems important but I still want to stay. I made the permanent move three times. The first time was pretty scary, I looked forward to the second time and was VERY anxious the third and final time.

 

If the country were to turn completely to shit, I would probably return to the US but that's certainly not in my plans. It does help to know that you can always pack a bag, leave and not miss any meals if you do have to move.

[Owen` 2]

Some of this thread is about guys really being uncomfortable with not having "a home".

 

Housing is a huge part of any budget and if you try to keep a place you're not living in, you're paying for housing twice. Yeah, I know that guys . . . the UK guys especially . . . wave their hands and say "I'll keep a place at home and rent it out to pay for it." The real estate price run up in the UK has defined a lot of attitudes there towards houses and they just cannot bring themselves to accept not having a house.

 

Well, okay, if you want to spend your days in LOS trying to orchestrate new renters when the old ones move out, and orchestrate cleaning and damage repair and whatever . . . okay. Have at it.

 

The LOS thing is just a place to be for a while. Permanent? Don't know what permanent means. If you don't want to be there, leave. Leave permanently? Don't know what permanent means.

 

Oh, one more thought. Another thing that I've found affects guys' mindsets is their experience in life with moving. When they have moved residence previously, they did a lot of the work themselves and endured lots of bruises and sore muscles from it. Well, that's not happening again. You're going to be over 50. You pay to have such things done now.

[cottesloe 0]

Hi O,

 

I see what your saying and yes it's to a certain extent true ... but for me, certain things being in place, you need a base. Also for me that base has to be in my home turf ...

 

I can get mail, register with health care, lock up and leave with a rucksack, return and open up, maintain a bank account, vote, run for office :-).

 

So, what has to be in place - money to pay for it. But if that is there then it is the lack of hassle especially as you say places like the RG abound while on holiday.

 

I've moved many times and no matter how you plan it or pay for it or whatever - it is a major hassle. It may not be the most tax efficient or the best way economically - but if it fits the budget then all is sweet. I think it is a major issue concerning happiness - in the heirachy a secure base is high up there and to move some way to a more nomadic existence, for me, just doesn't cut it.

 

My advice to anyone and I know getting even more off topic ... is don't cut your ties with your home turf / base. If your fortunate enough to own property then keep it and use it as a base even if that means returning frequently. Get a family member to check it, re-do your insurance and travel.

 

Yep definitely a fear about not having a home but a sensible fear - IMHO.

 

Cheers,

 

C.

[Gary 4,118]

Some of this thread is about guys really being uncomfortable with not having "a home".

 

Housing is a huge part of any budget and if you try to keep a place you're not living in, you're paying for housing twice. Yeah, I know that guys . . . the UK guys especially . . . wave their hands and say "I'll keep a place at home and rent it out to pay for it." The real estate price run up in the UK has defined a lot of attitudes there towards houses and they just cannot bring themselves to accept not having a house.

 

Well, okay, if you want to spend your days in LOS trying to orchestrate new renters when the old ones move out, and orchestrate cleaning and damage repair and whatever . . . okay. Have at it.

 

The LOS thing is just a place to be for a while. Permanent? Don't know what permanent means. If you don't want to be there, leave. Leave permanently? Don't know what permanent means.

 

Oh, one more thought. Another thing that I've found affects guys' mindsets is their experience in life with moving. When they have moved residence previously, they did a lot of the work themselves and endured lots of bruises and sore muscles from it. Well, that's not happening again. You're going to be over 50. You pay to have such things done now.

 

The first time I made the move in 1991 I had no idea whether I would like it or not. I had a LOT of things that one accumulates over the years. I stored a lot of it and shipped some junk that would have been better stored back in the US. After five years of Thailand I was really burned out and when the Thai economy crashed, I went back to the US vowing to NEVER return to Thailand. After being back in the rat race for a short time it dawned on me that in fact, I liked it in Thailand better.

 

The second time I didn't ship anything but still stored a few things. I would have stayed that time but after a lot of calculating I realized that I simply didn't have enough money to last until I got my pensions. I had no choice but to return to work in the US. I did have a plan then. I saved every dime possible to allow me to live in Thailand until the day I die.

 

For the final move I only took what I could get in my luggage. I did take a couple of large bags the previous trip and left them in Thailand. I gave my last piece of property in the US to my kids and told them that they have their inheritance in advance and that if they got anything more it would be an accident. They laughed because they know me well.

 

Permanent to me means finding a place to die. And I mean to die of old age. I no longer have any desire to travel and if someone offered me a free around the world tour, I would give it to someone who would enjoy it. Thailand is plenty big enough and once in a while I do enjoy taking a trip. Maybe in May/June I will drive from up country down to Krabi. I have a friend in Kanchanaburi, another in Cha Am and and another good friend in Krabi. No schedule and I stop anywhere I find interesting. I used to like Nong Kai but I got tired of it, been there and done that. Once in a while to Udon Thani and soon I will spend a few nights in Khon Kaen. I also have a good friend in Korat. That makes a good overnight stop on the way to Jomtien. My wife sometimes doesn't want to go with me and has no objection if I go myself. She doesn't much like the bars and is content to stay in the hotel room until I get back. It's a good life.

[bart 0]

Permanent to me means finding a place to die.

I agree 100 percent

And I mean to die of old age.

Not so sure about this. "Lying in your own faeces and bedsores" as another BM put it a while ago?

It's a good life.

Good for you

[travlling 0]

Shilo,

I also fly an American flag for now and will be in LOS this coming Feb-May to set-up my move there...........I'm only 41 and sick and tired of the B.S. here............I smile everyday when in Thailand, even on my worst day there is way better than my best day here...........unless "if" I hit the lottery here I won't have a shitload of money to throw around and I'll be in Korat, but I WILL BE HAPPY

 

I also had doubts and reservations for a while...............but I know what makes me happy................you don't have to live in Pattaya, ask Gary or Larry. Correct gents?